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#282974 - 04/09/09 07:03 PM Those Fantasies of our Minds
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Guys I've been wanting to ask this question for a while and just debating on whether or not it is appropriate to discuss I would like to discuss it but if it is found to be offensive I apologize I intend no harm.

I've discussed this several times and really wonder about my fantasies.

Is this a tool for predicting our sexual orientation or is it just that a fantasy?

Am I reading in too much about my fantasies?

I often have fantasies but don't think I could ever act them out in real life.

Is a fantasy just something that our mind creates for excitement purposes in our lives.

Again I hope this isn't inappropriate.

What role do fantasies play in our lives?

What role do fantasies play in our sexual beings?

Guys I don't know if this a stupid question or not but I feel better getting it off my chest.

Thanks

Charlie.

I'd love to hear what you all have to say regarding this topic.


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#282982 - 04/09/09 07:36 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Charlie,
For the most part I personally think fantasies are harmless depending on their content and frequency at which they occur.

For instance, if I had a fantasy of raping someone that would not be healthy. If it occurred only once I would be unnerved but not upset. If I found myself having fantasies of rape and violence frequently I would be very concerned and would want to get some help professionally.

The main problem I see with fantasy is that it tends to motivate. If I have fantansies about eating ice cream I will eventually find myself at the grocery store, or Dairy Queen. If I am having fantasies about young men, I will find myself at places where young men tend to congregate. If I should find myself having fantasies about having intercourse with young children I would bet you could find me driving by schools where kids can be found.

We tend to gravitate toward what we are thinking about the most whether conciously or unconciously. I had dreams about owning a certain model of automobile a long time ago. I would fantasize about it, daydream about owning and driving it. I eventually began driving by the car lots and guess what? I now own one. That is what I consider a good fantasy (of course :-))that I motivated to come true.

I fear the other is true also. If I were to allow myself to dwell on sex wtih other men like I used to I have no doubt eventually the opportunity would come up.

Bottom line: Carefull what you fantasize alot about, You have the power to make that fantasy come true even on an unconcious level.

Just my thoughts. Does that make sense to you?


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#282984 - 04/09/09 07:48 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
sexual fantasies for me have always been about being abused...so I'm not sure that all fantasies are healthy...they seem at least in my case to be rather intrusive and disturbing...once Ive finished using the fantasy for its purpose...i feel awful...they only make it more apparent to me that i need help...i just cant seem to think of "reasonably" normal sexual things, when i mb...wish i knew of a way to rid myself of these thoughts...maybe they will fade over time during my recovery....i hope so anyway.

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#282999 - 04/09/09 09:33 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
charlie, at some point in my life i realized that fantasizing about sexual trysts kept my inner world stuck on pause. and of course before i realized that i realized that the fantasies were always an attempt to recapture the situations that resembled my times with my older brother. i didn't want sex, i wanted closeness; that's what my fantasies were about. a severe lack of something.

i came to realize that for me indulging in fantasies was a dishonest practice, and would not lead me to freedom but rather my indulging in them just kept on reinforcing the grip they had on me.

i am not making a moral judgment in any of this. i don't believe sexual pleasure is wrong, but i came to understand that for myself anyway, indulging in sex with a figment of my imagination was more or less a measure of my own bondage.

i wanted to get to the place where i could meet sex on sexes terms; to actually have an honest orgasm. and for me that meant finding new ways to disengage from the lie i engaged in, having ghosts for sexual partners.

i began to stop the fantasizing, because they would no longer feed me. i stared them down, eye to eye, and began to discover the joys of loving touch.

now, if i could only manifest a real person to engage in it with, that would be awesome! but in the meantime, it's just me, but without all the old adolescent ideas and shame about '5 fingered mary' because the art of pleasure is so much more than a quick act of getting off. it is a way to get to know myself, and love myself and trust myself without regret or remorse.

don't know if that makes sense for anyone else, but it does for me. thanks for the topic.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#283007 - 04/09/09 10:29 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Sans Logos]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 241
Loc: NYC
This is an interesting topic. In a way, it's very painful. We can control our actions. We can dictate, to some extent, how people see us. But we can't really censor our fantasies. I would agree that if your fantasies are of a disturbing nature, you have some work to do on yourself. It might not mean you will act out in a destructive manner, but it does suggest things aren't right yet in your mind.

In my loneliness, I often think of someone in the past who was also abused. I'm so uncomfortable with sex. I imagine that he would be too. Our shared unease somehow soothes me. But it's impossible. He's long gone, and ostensibly straight. I feel guilty for even thinking about it, but when I do, I don't feel so alone.

Still, it could be worse. As a child, during and after the abuse, my fantasies were very bizarre, very disquieting. Ever since I was a teenager, I've latched onto one person, man or woman, who promises wholeness. Of course, there are a few exceptions. Just a few nights ago, I half-awoke from a dream and began making out with my pillow, pretending it was Christina Ricci (!)

I don't think you can, or should, hide from the unpleasant yearnings of your mind. What do my fantasies tell me? That I'm lonely. That I can only trust one person, even in my imagination. That I have bisexual tendencies. It's better to confront the truth, and strive to repair the damage, than to pretend your feelings don't exist. Try not to look at your fantasies as something to be afraid of. Think of them as valuable insights into your inner-workings. It's like diagnosing an illness. It's incredibly difficult to face, but once you do, you can begin the process of getting better.


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#283012 - 04/09/09 11:10 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
men_of_hrts.dbw Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 301
Loc: Orchidland Big Island Hawaii
Charlie;
This topic is such a brain opener for me.

My fantasies before the abduction/assault I visualized healthy hetro content.

After the rape and all the years of dealing with the falshbacks and uncomfortable sexual reactions my body went through while my mind was continually being subjected to alcohol and THC. This went on for ten years. I gave up on my dick and went solo in my mid-thirties.

Masterbation was never a problem for me. I tried men twice after the assault in desparation for sexual gratification, women were equally disapointed as the two men, nothing worked except masterbation.

My fantasies changed to male/male around the same time and I was disgusted after my solo sessions. For most of my thirties and forties I had intrusive m/m events in my fantasies of me being with a man and I would switch back and forth to women. It was very frustrating.

I fixed it with test driving the equipment and using a female nudity mag. When a m/m visual scenario developed I shut it down and with practie I was able to move on to the actual m/f sexual relation without the physical and mental interuptions associated with the assault.

Good topic

_________________________
Doug>ASA Survivor (1x)
ECV 6001/MaTuCa Chapter 1849
E Clampus Vitus
"What Say the Brethren"
"Hang the Bastards"

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#283037 - 04/10/09 01:27 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: men_of_hrts.dbw]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
I was going to say what Roger said, it is true, and fantasies can be dangerous in the way that Roger explained.

Myboyhoodfears. Interpretation of fantasy. Something that you want? right?
but sexual so-called "fantasies" may not be fantasies in that sense at all, they may just be ways of re-living the abuse. Ways of feeling the feelings again, a possible subversive way to try to process the feelings. So i think there is a difference sometimes. I'm not sure if that is what you were talking about.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#283040 - 04/10/09 01:53 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: king tut]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Maybe some people use these fantasies as a way to connect with their past as an attempt to try to understand. I mentioned that i think that that method is subversive, because you become submersed in the emotions and feelings of "little me". You feel the feelings, but you cant make any rational sense of them in order to process them.

It is very much like one of those un-helpful coping mechanisms, it seems to relieve some of the pain, but then it is actually undermining you.

Like sometimes people cut themselves as a coping mechanism, right? but really what they are doing is reinforcing those bad feelings they have about themselves, each time they cut they are really saying "this is what i'm worth". Unhealthy fantasies do the same kind of destruction and also eat away at how you think. If you put yourself in those fantasies, even if for complex reasons it seems to relieve the pain of it all for a moment (maybe like throwing in the towel), you are actually saying i am worthless, and i deserve to be treated badly.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#283246 - 04/11/09 11:14 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: king tut]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 10:52 AM)
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#283273 - 04/11/09 03:36 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 241
Loc: NYC
I agree that disturbing fantasies are symptomatic of something psychologically awry. Yet, I don't think it is possible to control them. I think people fantasize to quench some desire that is not being fulfilled in reality. If a man has fantasies of being abused in some way, the problem lies deeper than the fantasy itself. His mind is unwell. The fantasies are only a manifestation of that. I think it sends the wrong message to say you should stop having these thoughts because no one can "choose" their thoughts. Thoughts just occur.

In other words, you can't suffocate your fantasies. Fantasies emerge because some yearning is being suffocated in your daily life. You don't heal by treating the symptom. You attack the source. You learn, from experience, from therapy, or from self-reflection, that the things you want will only hurt you. That's just my opinion. I don't think fantasies are good, or bad. Sometimes they scare us, or make us feel guilty. But in doing so, they might convince us to change, or get the help we need.


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#283937 - 04/16/09 08:47 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Bewlayb1]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I think its important to realize that unhealthy fantasies are, like you said, only symptomatic of a root problem and are probably intensified even more by trying to bury them. That said I believe the vast majority of people on this planet have some sort of dark side yet they don't act on what goes on there. So what is the answer? I would venture that if a fantasy is disturbing and recurring it is the same as having the same bad dream over and over again. Neither can be helped by the person experiencing it but should still be dealt with.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#283940 - 04/16/09 09:12 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: jls]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Fantasies can just happen (or you can deliberately make them happen.) It is the behavior that you do with the fantasy. When unwanted fantasies are accompanied by a positive reinforcement like masturbation, you make the fantasy stronger.

If the fantasy is accompanied by something unpleasant (like thinking of something nasty or the opposite of pleasurable sensations), the fantasy will likely go away. For example, if you popped an ammonia capsule under your nose when thinking of an unwanted fantasy, your brain makes the association of something unpleasant with the previously enjoyable sensations of masturbation.

It's like putting chopped garlic on your favorite ice cream. Doing it a few times will probably cause you to associate the previously favorite flavor with the new unpleasant one and you will be less likely to enjoy it.


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#283954 - 04/17/09 12:16 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 241
Loc: NYC
I think I, hesitantly, defended fantasies because of my own history. I completely withdrew into a fantasy world for ten years or so, following the abuse. At first, they were very twisted, very bizarre. Even if they weren't always sexual, they were elaborate, over the top, absurd. I was creative. I liked a classmate in fifth grade. We were at the circus, and I remember planning this whole scene in my mind involving going on the stage, performing, taking her up with me, and finally kissing her. I half-believed it could happen. In high school, I frequently made out with a mug that was shaped like Deanna Troi, from Star Trek: The Next Generation. I try to forgive myself. In the real world, I did nothing wrong. I was nice, polite. I hardly ever spoke. My fantasies seperated me from reality. But in a way, they also protected me. Life was so terrible. I needed an escape, even if only in my head. I don't think it's a coincidence that now I aspire to be writer.

However, I do understand that it's different for grown men. Perhaps forcing yourself not to think certain things is beneficial. I didn't overcome my own madness by censoring my thoughts. It faded after years of reflection, and several traumas which helped shock me into sanity. Likewise, my fantasies gradually became less disquieting and pervasive, as if beyond my control. It didn't happen with psychological behavioral association techniques. It happened on it's own, over time.

Even now, I'm reluctant to stifle romantic, or sexual feelings that others may deem unhealthy. My mind is my sanctum. I'm tired of feeling guilty about what happens there. If I'm lonely, and I want to hug my pillow and pretend it's that lesbian girl I liked a fews years back, who am I hurting? I need something to get me through this isolation. I guess I still sometimes cling to fantasies in the same way I cling to the other defense mechanisms that allowed me to survive.

I'm torn on the subject. On one hand, if suddenly I had a really twisted fantasy, I'd want to get rid of it as quickly as possible, scratch it out from under my skin. On the other hand, eliminating the fantasy won't eliminate the problem. To do that would probably take experience, heartache, pain and a lot of perserverance.

I have a lot of baggage with this issue. I remember being so ashamed of my thoughts for so long. But the thoughts just emerged. I didn't create them. I don't believe there is any way I could have stopped them. When the abuse was first happening, they were very, very disturbing: too disturbing to write about. It's the memory of that boy which motivates me when I say, there's no such thing as controlling your fantasies. Does it apply to adults? I don't know.


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#283964 - 04/17/09 06:27 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Bewlayb1]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
I know I"m not really supposed to respond here, but this is a really important issue.

I have fantasies that I don't like at all, they're compelling, but I sure don't like them. While I've never felt like I might act on them in reality, they still feel stifling, like a lack of creativity because they're so rote, so repetitive, nothing new ever happens.

I doubt I can just make them go away, but I can make a bigger effort to try to create different fantasies, try on different scenerios, etc....

My unwanted fantasies don't, for instance, allow for including a person I really care about to be one of the characters. If I place the feeling of care and love into the fantasy, then blam, it just doesn't work.

Creating a fantasy about care and concern requires I write a different>

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#283966 - 04/17/09 06:47 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
P.S.,

For me, at least, the challenge doesn't seem to rid myself of disturbing or darker fantasies, but to learn to more freely "dream my dreams".

It's like my mind has decided that I'm allowed this one dream, this one fantasy, and that's it.

Screw that smile

Katie


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#284020 - 04/17/09 12:29 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Kathryn]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Kathryn
You guys are so great. I swear, who would guess that all these American guys would be sitting around talking with such depth and sensitivity about all this stuff?

Take care,
Katie


Hi Katie:

I'd just like to point out that its not just American guys here. This is quite the United Nations of men here. I'm Canadian, and I've met men here from The Netherlands, The U. K. Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Brazil, South Africa, Thailand, Malaysia, France, the list goes on and on. I guess where ever men are, you may find one or two of them here... grin

Greetings from the chosen frozen!

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#284032 - 04/17/09 01:11 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Geeders]
Letourski Offline


Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Hey Guys,

I am not sure I would call some of my thoughts fantasy because they do not engender any pleasurable sensations. I do not re-enforce these thoughts by masturbating to them. I do agree that we can create our own fantasies and over time the ones we do not want will dissolve.

The challenge for me is allowing myself to feel these thoughts as they arise. I have tried very hard to push them away but they have come back from time to time. When the thoughts arise I judge myself and attack myself. This becomes self-hatred and creates a sense of guilt/shame within me. I must learn to face the perceived ugliness and accept it as part of my healing rather than a truth about my character.

Very good topic!

Dan

_________________________
I am the warrior.

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#286138 - 05/03/09 12:01 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Letourski]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Hey guys just wanted to thank you all for replying and offering your insight into this issue. I appreciate the openness and honesty that is allowed to be discussed on this site. It helps to have others open up and give their advice. Again thank you fellow gentlemen and ladies.

Charlie.


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#286166 - 05/03/09 02:43 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi all,

I got into this late.

I have been fantasizing while masterbating for over 55 years. But the part that confuses me is that I fantasize that I'm with my sexual agressor. I seem to relive the pleasurable feelings that I had while he was abusing me.

Being a compulsive masturbater, I am fantaszing doing it with mostly men.

If someone could explain to me just why while I'm trying to deal with this CSA stuff, I'm still enjoying those pleasures of so long ago.
Real screwed up rookie survivor.

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)





Edited by petercorbett (05/03/09 02:45 PM)
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#286190 - 05/03/09 06:55 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: petercorbett]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: petercorbett
I have been fantasizing while masterbating

I fantasize that I'm with my sexual agressor. I seem to relive the pleasurable feelings that I had while he was abusing me.


My T says that this is real typical survivor behavior. Men achieve a "high" when doing this that is next to a drug high but without use of drugs.

When we were abused we had a dual-pronged response. On one hand our body felt really good, albeit briefly. If we were in unhappy circumstances as a boy we needed this brief high even more. At least something felt good.

The other prong of the response is that while it felt good bodywise, everything else in our mind or our self was cringing away from something that seemed to lead us away from who we were meant to be.

So we had a love-hate response within ourselves.

Then we had this desire to recapitulate the good feeling. We had quickly become addicted to the good feeling. The price tag is that it came with feelings of being hurt. This proved to most of us to be an unavoidable erosion of our mind and spirit. We became "habituated" to the dilemma.

As far as the mental fantasy is concerned, I think this is of some importance, as you already indicated moose. The only way to modify this as far as I know is to replace it with another fantasy. If you can come up with a more healthy fantasy you can try replacing it with the adverse one.

I think this is why some guys turn to porn and acting out with other guys. I am not recommending this, I am just saying that it happens. These fantasies are very powerful as motivating forces in our lives. What we fantasize about we tend to later perform. We may need the help of a competent T in order to change these patterns.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#286216 - 05/03/09 11:28 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
I know in my experience until I got EMDR I was having fantasies about sexual things with my cousin, the perp, while I masturbated or I would have fantasies, especially when I was a younger teenager, about kids who were 5 or 6 years younger than me. As I got older those fantasies really really bothered me, especially because the rest of the time I was thinking about girls I liked and the other stuff didn't fit in.

After EMDR for a lot of that the fantasies just stopped. It was also a realization that by revisiting those fantasies or watching gay porn and getting off to it that I was feeling this torn up wrecked feeling afterwards. It got to the point where I realized that I was ripping my soul apart by doing that stuff. Then after reading some words on Joe Kort's website I realized that it was all related to trying to make sense of what happened, and even if I thought of it as being sexual it was an expression over the anxiety those experiences caused me. I would have NEVER wanted to actually perform any of the fantasies that went on in my head about younger kids, I knew how wrong those were.


I also think if I hadn't gotten to the point where things felt so split between who I was and what was happening in my head I could have continued that pattern for a much longer period of time. My abuse ended when I was 9. I started masturbating when I was 11, and for the next ten years EXACTLY everything was so crazy like that. Now at 22 and about a year through this whole journey into the what's and why's and how's and an AWFUL lot of deep introspection I feel that I've arrived at a scary place in life, but scary in a good way.

Scary when you start a new school and you're nervous about meeting new people, or nervous about all those rumors about upperclassmen stuffing you in lockers or giving you swirlies. For the past 11 years I had been living this life that was confused, broken, and masked. I got so used to wearing a mask and covering up who I was that it just became involuntary. I didn't want people to know how I felt, I didn't want to show any emotions. So I put on the goofy joking personality and ran with it. It's become a part of me to the core now, but it's existing there because I like that part of me, it's not a mask anymore.

Sexually though, I'm at a new place. It's a fresh kind of discovery like when I was 11 or 12. I'm not being controlled by fantasies that happened because of what my cousin did to me. All the homosexual and homoerotic thoughts and fantasies that felt so opposite of the rest of me fade and dissipate more and more every time I go to EMDR. I make my own choices now, and I can decide what I feel comfortable with and what I like, instead of trying to turn myself into my cousin and reliving my relationship with him along with the abuse in my mind. I feel ready finally to meet a girl or start dating, something that I was convinced I was too broken or damaged to do in the past.


Allowing myself to be that emotionally open is scary too, because in the past I've been very guarded about everything in my life, with the exception of two or three of my best friends who are basically brothers to me. Scared that if I get to the point in a relationship where I do reveal this part of me and my past, that I'll be left because they won't understand or be able to handle the emotional baggage. I'd say I feel like I have my life back, but this all started when I was 6. The sixteen years since that have been all I knew in my life, and for most of that time I hid my feelings and repressed my emotions and just put my head down and pushed myself forward. I'm not used to having things so new and opened up. I'm still digging through and finding things that I've kept buried for so long, and each time I free those things, I feel happy, but also scared. I don't know what all this is going to make me.


Oddly though I feel like it's simplifying me as a person. All these things I had implemented to protect myself, all these barriers, they're falling. I couldn't even tell you what they were, there were so many of them. Good to have em gone, but it's weird at the same time.


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#286220 - 05/04/09 12:21 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
lfp Offline


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 121
Hi, I think this post is very useful...

This has been a storm in my mind for soo long. I don't have any fantasies with my agressor but I do have these homoerotic fantasies... At the begginning I was easily aroused by thoughts of same sex people masturbating.

Now I can either be aroused by both straight and homoerotic thoughts, although I consider myself straight.

Frequently I get angry because this is just not "normal"... I shouldn't be feeling all this, and also, this subject is just so.... uncomfortable to share, specially with your close male friends!

Even though I like women, I don't seem to have that strong feeling and sexual desire for women that average men have.

Also, after abuse, I developed some fetishes that still bother me. Is there any way to get rid of all this?

_________________________
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

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#286222 - 05/04/09 12:26 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: AndyS87]
lfp Offline


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 121
Hi, I can see that EMDR helped you.

I also started my EMDR treatment and it was just a mess, I started having hallucinations, I just got worse. Nothing changed!!!

I stopped seeing my T... I don't know what to do now.

_________________________
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

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#286255 - 05/04/09 08:55 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: lfp]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
That's a tough one. This hasn't been as difficult for me as I think it's been for some people because I wasn't violently abused, my cousin who was my perp was coercive and used to kind of wear me down into saying "ok" and letting him do whatever. On a couple of occasions when I did say no and really meant it he left me alone. That said, the EMDR has only tackled cognitions or thought processes, I haven't taken on the actual memories of the event yet. I'm going to try that on wednesday and we'll see where that goes.


It's funny though, even after I made that post last night these thoughts and fantasies that normally come into my mind and turn me OFF started up, and they did the opposite, they turned me on. I have a form of obsessive compulsive disorder where I fear irrationaly that I am suddenly turning gay, and to calm it down when those thoughts come around I mock them or laugh at them to diminish them. But last night it was like since I wasn't scared by them, I thought "well ok maybe I really do like this" and then I got off to them. It was a fantasy about this kid I used to know whose diapers I used to change, he's 13 or 14 now I think. This is stuff that my rational mind does NOT welcome, but for some reason it hit last night right before I went to bed and It's made me very uncomfortable. I wonder if it was me trying to take control of the anxiety this has been causing in my life lately. The other reality is that since things are so wide open, it seems inevitable that at times I'll go back to the old thoughts and fantasies since they are what I know the best.

LFP, I dunno what to tell ya. I think therapy is a great tool to use to cope with this stuff, but if you're not ready you're not ready. If you were getting that bad, you and your T should have established an EMDR "safe" place inside your head where you could go to get away from some of those disturbing situations. Good luck.


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#287791 - 05/17/09 09:05 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: AndyS87]
lfp Offline


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 121
Hi,

Now I have something different, I think it's directly related to low self steem.

I have been having fantasies with a male friend, I've always seen him as the "prototype boy" my dad would've liked to have and not me... He is the typical masculine figure, sportive and sometimes flirt, has a successful social life and is accepted in many groups.

I am rather different, I don't have a successful social life, I don't enjoy people closeness, I mean, when I perceive some extra closeness to my privacy I just want to throw up. I don't like a lot of things most people my age do. I know I am unique and bla bla and so on, but there is just nothing out there I feel I belong to, have nobody to share with.

What is it like to be with friends (boys and girls, around age 20) having lunch and there is a soccer game and all my male friends are watching and I just don't care about it, just like all the girls there. I'd rather see some Tchaikovsky Nutcracker Ballet than ANY sport game, and in Colombia!! You have 0 cultural diversity here!

I never played sports, While my friends were playing some sport during breaktimes at school, I was eating fast in order to receive my Ancient-Latin/Greek lessons a priest was giving me. They were preparing me to be a priest, I assisted to some preparation courses in which I had to dress like a priest, and prepare mass and etc. My life was sooo different, and so painful also not only because my abuse.

Now I'm an almost graduating student of engineering (not priest)and I feel that those fantasies of my mind are really here to stay, I was having EMDR treatment and it was the most horrible thing as I said before. I'm also tired of people out there who believe my things are very simple to deal with, If I say: I think this, then they say: "Well, don't think about it", if I say "I have low self steem" they say "Look, you have good grades" and so on...

I find it hard to handle all this because I don't know what is going to be permanent and what I can change, and if I can change it, I don't know how. I've seen 4 Ts so far, and they just try to put sand on int instead of clearing everything up. I just stopped seeing my last T because she blamed me for all this.

What to do...

_________________________
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

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#288721 - 05/24/09 08:06 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi my brothers in pain.

Well for me fantasizing while masturbating, is a compulsive thing of the past. (I hope). I was most of the time fantasizing being with my primary agressor (Ralph). I have been doing this for 60 yrs.

But I went to a WOR (weekend of recovery), last week. It was an emotionally exhausting weekend. I/we were into the very depths of our soul. We were helping each other to find that lost boy.

Well I did find little Peter, I asked for Divine intervention. If I could find little Peter. It was intense for me, and if my plea for help was answered, I would change my masturbation habits and thinking of all those pleasures that I had received from my sexual agressor (Ralph).

So I made a pact with God, that I would give up my compulsive habit in return.

I finally figured it out at that WOR in Georgia.
How could I possibly hope to come to terms with little Peter and those years of sexual pleasure, while I was constantly thinking that my sexual agressor loved me.

So I'm starting to get my head screwed on right, get rid of old compulsive habits.

Stop fantasizing about those (WRONG) pleasures given to me.

I'll have to get my high in talking and listning to little Pete and our journey from the depths of hell and soul, into the sunlight.

That's my hope.

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#289096 - 05/27/09 03:01 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Northeast, USA
To Charlie and everyone involved in the discussion,

My name is Rocco and I'm new to the site, but here's my two cents. BTW, good topic to discuss.

Originally Posted By: Charlie24
What role do fantasies play in our lives?


I do think that fantasies play a special role in our lives as sexual abuse victims. As mentioned before, they are safe, in that we don't have to trust anyone to get sexual gratification. It is just me myself and I when I masturbate. And because they are safe I don't have to risk real intimacy and vulnerability with a real person. If solely relied on for sexual gratification this can obviously lead to a lonely life, which it has for me.

The content of my fantasies is most likely also related to being sexually abused. That is, I have in the past only "gotten off" to fantasies that involve violation of trust or social mores in some way (with me it is fantasies about married women or about adult relatives). I think this is directly related to having been sexually abused as a young boy, because violation of a sacred trust and a social taboo were both a part of my early experience of sexual abuse. I think fantasies are unhealthy if after you have them you feel bad, shameful, or guilty. Only in the recent past have I been able to change some of my "masturbation fantasies" to ones that don't make me feel bad afterwards.

Once you begin to see what role sexual fantasies play in your life I think you can begin to see that there are choices involved. What I mean to say is that there may be other fantasies that we can substitute for the, let's just say, "shameful ones", which still get the job done but which don't make us feel bad afterwards. Although they may not be as tempting as our default fantasies which have been played over and over again in our minds, but which might make us feel bad afterwards, they still work and in time could possibly become our default fantasies.

Thanks for the opportunity to contribute to such a great discussion,

Rocco



Edited by Casmir213 (05/27/09 03:17 PM)
_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#293263 - 06/26/09 10:59 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Casmir213]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
Hi.

I can't say that I always fantasized about being with my cousin or my oldest brother, but I have always fantasized about the activity I did with my oldest brother except with other men. This went on for years but I would act them out through masturbation via male/male pornography. It kept my virginity in tact for 27 years until I finally began acting out my fantasies.

While I feel a division in my own sexuality, I also feel that what happened between my oldest brother and my cousin have a lot to do with how I interact with men and women. My acting out with men actually take me back to my abuse because I don't ejac. after the act. With women, I give my all to them except sex. I leave both of them frustrated and burned and I leave just burned.

My ideal fantasy with a man is someone who is going to be the way an older brother should be(the way my older brother wasn't). With women, my fantasy is to have her listen to my wants and desires rather than me listening to hers (the way my own cousin was). My cousin always asked me if I loved her and I spent time after time reassuring her that I did. What I desire from both and how I interact with them is always fantasized about in my head.

They are constant and it's hard to ignore sometimes because I come close to what I want even though I always go away with nothing. I feel stuck in this cycle and I just wish I could get out of it.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#295004 - 07/12/09 03:07 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: h.beat,h.break]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Guys I'm glad you all have been able to share in this topic with me. Being able to talk about these things in a safe and open environment is helpful.

There is so much more I wanted to originally say, been biting my tongue for the longest time for fear of being reprimanded.

I know that we have to be careful what it is said here because it's a shared community and some things are better said in private.

I really enjoyed all the discussion this topic has brought about guys. Kudos.

Knowing that I have feelings and things that may seem a little off, being able to express them and understand that a reaction to the abuse, can explain things, get some good answers it helps.

Growing up I've said many a times, my father shamed me in so many ways.

Explains why I apologized for myself for the longest time.

No need to be sorry for being me.

Part of me wondered if what I was fantasizing about, was going to determine my sexuality, maybe tell me if I was gay, straight or bi. Well it just kinda made it more confused. Not good of course.

I was having some fanstasies about my abuse.

In addition poor self esteem contributed to my fantasies as well.

When I hate myself so much that I don't wanna be me, I wanna be somebody else, I've got a problem.

How to fix that is a challenge I think, not to sure.

Why can't I just shake an 8 ball and get all the answers I want, oh well. Here's hoping.


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#301495 - 09/03/09 03:21 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 280
i guess we all have to understand that we were cheated, u know u got delt a lot of mis-information, the healthy sexuality that one develops with age and growing up in a safe enviroment promotes was not to our disposal. we got a whole bunch of gaps when it comes to social interactions and trust, intimacy , etc. dont let ur mind fool u into believing irrational things, listen to you heart.
my greatest fear is becoming the worst things that happened to me. but i know that no matter how hard they try to seep in, they wont.im not willing to give up the fight, and to stop the vicious cycle. Your brain is compensating for this mis-information. be aware of ur emotion and know urself everyday, ull find that you ARE WORTH AS MUCH AS WE ALL ARE, and that theres never been a better time to be you.

"you cant change into something else, unless you know what you are"
bruce lee

_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

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#304912 - 10/01/09 09:36 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Bewlayb1]
takingflight Offline


Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 32
I tried for a long time to staunch my fantasies. It just made it worse.

Instead I found a misdirection type of trick that works a lot better: start thinking about and working towards some worthwhile goal IRL. Do not fight those fantasies when they come up, let them run their course and then get back to work.

If you are having problems maintaining or building relationships and maintaining self esteem, it is easier to fall down into the fantasy. So get into your faith, meditation, physical work outs - or whatever grounds you and reminds you that you are a good person to stay grounded.

In a few weeks you'll have a different shape to your thoughts and probably a more optimistic outlook on life.

Hope that helps,
TF


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#304957 - 10/02/09 09:57 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: takingflight]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
yeah, it's funny. Often I find if an unpleasant or intrusive thought, or "fantasy" (though I wish they'd go away) pops up in my head, it gets a lot worse if I sit there and try to make it go away.

Conversely, if I "accept" it, I find myself bored and completely un-interested with it, and it goes away on its own. I gotta agree with you on re-shaping the thought process though, a lot of times that's the only way to break out of a loop of negativity.


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#304960 - 10/02/09 10:55 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: AndyS87]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I believe it is a normal thing for fantasies or sexual thoughts to pop unbidden into my mind. They are like birds landing on my head. I can't help that, it happens but I can keep them from building a nest or makeing themselves at home. It is not what happens to you, it is how you deal with it. Learning to deal with such is a part of healthy recovery I think,


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#304969 - 10/02/09 12:25 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Freedom49]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
As soon as I read the now famous Ken Singer piece on certain obsessions, I was amazed at how easily I've been able to go, "oh it's THAT thing" and much like Andy as a thought it just withers. I haven't really thought too much about that yet, just accepted it as a good thing, but I guess I should try to analyze it a bit more...along a few other million things! lol

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#304991 - 10/02/09 04:57 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: sono]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
I allow my sexual fantasies to flourish in my mind. They die out when I let them flourish. As long as I am in a good place and with safe people I will act on the sexual fantasies.

I never act them out with others without full consent when in person.

I have roleplayed to help get in contact with my feelings with the fantasies I have had. This helped greatly.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#305702 - 10/09/09 12:00 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: justplainme]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Hi guys I really wish I had something inspiring to contribute, but I don't right now. Most of what i could contribute has already been said, and probably better than I ever could, by the way.

I have been getting a lot of help from just reading this post however, and for some reason wanted to chime in an say my appreciation for the subject.

Thank you
Logan

wait, I think I know why I am posting this (aha)! It because of what Kathryn said. I want to be included in the complement as of "one of sensitive Guys." blush

sorry guys

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#313048 - 12/05/09 11:24 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Bewlayb1]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Great post Charlie,

I know exactly what you mean. My fantasies since the repeated molestation have ranged from straight to bi to gay and even having another guy join me and my wife for sex while I watch them.

Sometimes, they are so powerful that I can't push them away long enough to have sex with my wife or maintain an erection while having heterosexual intercourse.

It's tough and I am getting help for it but I wish that I could correct it myself.

Just hang in there and try the best you can to keep your fantasies just that.

_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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