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#282680 - 04/07/09 06:17 PM Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope?
whbsr Offline


Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 4
deleted.



Edited by whbsr (04/16/11 08:08 PM)

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#282695 - 04/07/09 07:39 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: whbsr]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
wow whbsr,

What a tough spot to be in. I'm so sorry this is happening in your life and love.

You were wondering if recovery has caused him to want to make love to the other woman instead of you. I have found in my own experience that recovery can be a double edged sword. As I made progress on some aspects of my recovery I found that my new-found confidence also made it potentially easier for me to make the wrong decisions concerning potential sexual encounters. I've really had to watch out for myself in certain situations. This could be what he's experiencing but with the downside that he's making the wrong choices, choices he never would have considered making due to a lack of confidence, etc.

Something else that could be happening is that he's pushing you away because he feels so unworthy, worthless, dirty, used, whatever you want to call it, and this is his way of doing so. It often happens that we push those away we love the most on some mistaken, even subconscious idea that we don't deserve someone so lovely and special as you.

Whatever the case there are some serious questions you will need to be asking yourself:
Are you up for going through this roller coaster the rest of your life?
Do you deserve better than this?
Do you need to see a counselor, not for him but for yourself?
What issues are in your life that make you willing to hold out for a relationship lacking in physical intimacy? Do you know?

Please understand I'm not asking these questions to put you down, but rather to encourage you to try to discover the answers. It's possible to discover the answers AND manage to hold onto the relationship, even progress with him toward recovery, assuming he's willing to take that journey with you. If he's not where does that leave you? The answer may hurt in the short term (I use that terminology loosely because when you're hurting it seems like forever), but You do deserve better.

I wish you well in your search for the answers,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#282717 - 04/07/09 09:57 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: WalkingSouth]
whbsr Offline


Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 4
Dear John,
Thank you very much for your response. I know there will be many difficult questions I will have to answer; they are questions I have considered for years. You are right, I do deserve better, I deserve the good man I fell in love with, not the treatment I am receiving now; and he deserved-- every child deserves-- a safe and loving home. I know that love and understanding is often not enough, but I hope I can continue to offer it and I hope he will find himself worthy to accept it, because he really is worthy of all the love in the world. I am working on finding a more appropriate therapist who I hope will help me to answer all of these questions.
Thank you again for taking the time to show your support.


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#282732 - 04/08/09 06:19 AM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: whbsr]
fromtoday Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
whbsr,
I'm so sorry for reading your situation, you truely sound desperate and it's obvious that you love your partner, I have been with my husband for 16 years since he was 17 so I can relate.

Firstly the positive news is that he is starting recovery and has a good therapist, it may not feel like it but thats a really good start, but also recovery is a very slow process, for somebody who is eager to see results it can feel like an eternity, baby steps and sometimes ten great big feet back.

I'ts good that you are seeking a therapist for yourself, I hope I can make a suggestion and for you not to be offended but this is from personal experience.

Your relationship sounds very intense, in my opinion women who have relationships with CSA survivors (and vice versa) do not enter the relationship without their own issues.

I have been working on my own recovery issues for about 6 months and it does create more problems as the dynamics of our relationship change.

We too have had issues with the mother-son aspect to our relationship and this area is work in progress.

Don't lose hope of a better life, hopefully with your partner but possibly independantly too.

_________________________
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, Look up to the skies and see.....
_________________________________________________
Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody

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#282787 - 04/08/09 04:27 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: fromtoday]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
whbsr,

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. My story is not similar at all, but there were some statements you made that grabbed me, "...I deserve the good man I fell in love with, not the treatment I am receiving now; and he deserved-- every child deserves-- a safe and loving home. I know that love and understanding is often not enough, but I hope I can continue to offer it and I hope he will find himself worthy to accept it, because he really is worthy of all the love in the world." I said those very same words. Unfortunately you can say it all you want, it may never make a difference.

In my case I learned about the abuse when our short married went sour. I thought that my love and support of him would bring back the man that I married. It didn't, at least not for me. He started therapy then stopped. I think he may have started slightly again, but will likely stop again. John is right in that you need to ask yourself if you want to be on that rollercoaster ride for the rest of your life. I decided that I didn't want to be and deserved more. But, unfortunately that doesn't ease the pain of the personal loss.

I wish you well and will keep my fingers crossed that he sees what wonderful support he has.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#282792 - 04/08/09 04:49 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: Junefriday]
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Oh gosh, June, do I ever know what you mean!

I have reached the point of no return with this man. While I rejoice in the healing he has been able to achieve, it has been in an almost inadvertent manner - he does it when he thinks he can fit it in - just the same way he acted in our so-called "relationship." He simply cannot commit to the process any more than he can commit to me! And - that would be just fine IF these two things were not THE very two things that he craves most in his life! The self-defeating cycles are, quite frankly, starting to bore me! He is just as stuck as he ever has been and at this point in my life, I just don't have the energy to keep going through this bobbing & weaving two-steps forward/ five-steps back dance.

Now, this is not to say that I feel hopeless about survivors - not in the least! There are so many inspiring men here and in my "real" life who have been able to break through these patterns - and they aren't exceptional people, they are just "exemplary" people. Healing really CAN happen! But as partners, we have to be really honest with ourselves about our men and about our own tolerance for what can appear to be pretty abusive behavior toward us. If we are involved with men who cannot allow us to have any rights within the relationship, then I sadly (very sadly) (very very sadly) conclude that the sooner we extricate ourselves, the better. All the love in the world can't save someone who is not taking responsibility for his own healing.

I am so sorry for what we have all been through, and for the horrific waste that these terrible crimes have wrought upon all of us, survivors & partners.

Like you, June, I will go through my mourning process and hope that someday I can feel less oppressed by the terrible loss of my dear friend and of my dreams.

Hugs!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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#282900 - 04/09/09 10:25 AM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: kolisha54]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
I think for those where the survivors still WANT them in their lives, they should really consider sticking it out. In my case my survivor has made it very clear that he does not care about me and believes that his ONLY mistake was marrying me. I have no idea who he is anymore and wonder if he ever truly loved me. I mourn who he once was but now wonder if I imagined the whole thing. It is a painful rollercoaster ride but yet I keep hoping that if his car was about to run off the track, his life would flash before his eyes and he would realize what he is truly doing and recommit to getting help.

The most frightening thing is that while we down down our marriage and prepare for our separate lives, he shows absolutely no emotion toward me - no concern for where I will live, no concern for my financial well-being, etc. In fact, he literally appears to want to kick me to the curb. It is so hard to continue to wish for the best for someone when they are constantly kicking you while you are down.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#283058 - 04/10/09 07:32 AM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: Junefriday]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
whbsr,

hi. i feel the bone crushing pain you are in and oh boy, i feel horrible. there is a lot going on and it is difficult to respond to it all. i noticed at the end of your post, though, that you ask, "should i tread lightly or does he want to see me fight for him."?

i think the answer to this question and to every question is to get the best professional info you can, read as much as you can from sources like MS, and then do the thing that you feel in your heart.

i think that what you do right now is almost irrelevant to him. in the future, things may turn around and he may recall that you did this or that or the other thing...and he may be pleased or hurt or indifferent. you have no way of knowing what will make him feel better or worse and it is not your responsibility to try. you will probably want to try anyways, which is fine, but most likely what will make him feel better is not one easy thing. it will go round and round and change and grow and die and go back around, and slip in through the back door again. see what i mean? you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what is in his heart and mind. he may not even be sure and if he is sure one moment, the may change his mind the next. how could you hope to know and then always do the "right" thing for him?

it may well be that what is happening is because of the csa. even if it is, there is a progression of the way his healing must occur, and no one knows what that progression will be, but you can be almost positive that you cannot change its course.

where does that leave you? back at taking care of yourself, because that is one thing you can take control of. everyone, including myself, will tell you to take care of yourself. people in our situations usually start out blind to the ways we are contributing to it because we are so fiercely focussed on getting help for the other person. wanting to help is normal and good and right. actually being able to help is often close to impossible.

that being said, i also understand that you may not totally believe that right now, or feel it, or understand it. that's why i encourage you to keep reading everyone's advice, take it into consideration, and then do what is in YOUR heart. there is a progression for our healing, too, and it's different for all of us. we are all on our paths, at different stages, just as you are on yours. we are here to give suggestions and encouragement, but only you know what is right for you. and remember what is right for you today may make no sense tomorrow. this is growth and change.

best,

riz


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#283066 - 04/10/09 08:24 AM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: riz]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
sorry, i know i've already taken up a lot of space.

i couldn't stop thinking about it, though...as you try to figure out how to treat your partner, think about how you receive the advice you get here. some of it clicks, some of it doesn't.

there is no right answer. but i, riz, for example, might think i have THE RIGHT answer. what if i kept telling you over and over "whbsr, this is the right answer. you think you are feeling this, but really you are feeling that. you really should __________." Fill in the blank with any "should". Well, we're both lucky if my suggestion happens to be what you needed at that moment. If not I'll probably just annoy you. And if your head is spinning because of the intolerable situation you are in, what are my chances, really, of hitting the nail on the head, knowing the exact correct solution for you?

so...i apologized for taking up space, but then continued to write. why?

because my "helping" is also my healing.

not that my intentions are bad, but i am first helping myself, and then hoping someone else is helped by my experience. some may be helped and some may be irritated, but we can't let our self esteem rest on whether or not others approve of our best attempts to do our best in this world.

riz


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#283074 - 04/10/09 09:19 AM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: riz]
whbsr Offline


Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 4
Riz,
Thank you for your thoughtfulness. You are right about the advice. At one moment I want advice, at the next I can’t handle any advice. A good friend shared some advice she got from a therapist years ago when helping her son deal with his csa. I thought it might be helpful to others: When you are driving a car and see a rabbit in the street, you will never be able to figure out which way it will run. It is erratic. It may double back or go forward, or hop in a circle. As a driver, you can’t react to his movement, because the more you swerve, the more likely you are to hit him. You just have to pick a path and stick to it and hope that he’ll get out of your way and survive. Of course, sometimes the best advice is difficult to follow. This was a good image for me, I hope it helps others.
And Riz, please don’t ever apologize for taking up room writing. Write as much and as often as you need to help in your healing process.

Thank you everyone for your advice.


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#283107 - 04/10/09 03:58 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: riz]
fromtoday Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: riz

not that my intentions are bad, but i am first helping myself, and then hoping someone else is helped by my experience. some may be helped and some may be irritated, but we can't let our self esteem rest on whether or not others approve of our best attempts to do our best in this world.

riz


Hey Riz, Wise words - you help me.

Thanks

_________________________
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, Look up to the skies and see.....
_________________________________________________
Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody

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#283154 - 04/10/09 07:50 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: fromtoday]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
riz,

You are NOT taking up too much space, k? smile what you have to say is as important as the next person.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#283158 - 04/10/09 08:06 PM Re: Affairs and the recovery process. Is there hope? [Re: riz]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
riz,

I like the space that you use smile - you use it very well indeed! Your posts are always enlightening and very supportive. Your caring nature comes through in everything you offer others.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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