http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/weather/03/26/floods.north.dakota/index.html

Let's see. Here is a river. Here is a river bank. Here is the history of this area: floods every 20 years. Hey!!! Let's build a house here!!!

Are people really truly stupid idiots? The answer is: YES

Hauser

I ask myself this question every year when the fires break out in California. Wealthy and supposedly intelligent people build expensive houses in the hills over Los Angeles and other California cities where the natural vegetation burns periodically. In fact the plants there, called chaparral, are not able to propagate themselves unless they burn periodically. They have always burned periodically. They dry up every year so that they can burn. So, to repeat your question: Is this stupidity?

Then I cringe when I see this on TV and they talk about rebuilding their homes with disaster releif money from US.

The same is true with the wealthy people who build their expensive homes on the outer banks on the eastern coast of the USA. These areas are typically subjected to hurricanes periodically. So, we see in the news coverage how these homes have been swept away again. Why don't they learn? Again you hear about government relief payments to rebuild their expensive homes.

That is taxpayer (our) money used to rebuild these expensive homes which would predictably be swept away.

Now let's ask your question again. Who is it that is stupid?

Allen

pufferfish

It's not me, I've never once voted for a politician that supported government welfare. In other words, I've never voted for a Republican or Democrat in my life, and I doubt I ever will, especially with how they're ruining the economy even more now.

I feel very much the same way when I see a house here, perched precariously on the very edge of a deep river valley wall - or occasionally even "hanging over", where the street-level floor of the house is actually the second floor, and the lower floor seems to be hanging off the side of the cliff. I've seen how quick erosion can eat away at valley walls, and like the flood-plain houses you've mentioned, it isn't an "if" question at all, but merely a "when" that house is going to take the tumble.

No sense whatsoever.

London is basically all built on a flood plane too. I know the thames barrier is mostly for surges, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a flood plain, so not the best choice for a place for a capital city- in some ways.

YOU WANT FUNNY?????????????


Lorie wants us all to MOVE THERE ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wonder how I'll look as a slack-jawed MO-ron being interviewed from a boat in my front yard.

"Well.......we never have this shit in New Haimpshire....ooops...thar goes my house flo-tin a-way......huh......the tornadoes tooked my kids last months....but I guess life is better here....I'm mean....you gots these fun rescue boats and all....huh"

Are you sure? I was under the impression it was insurance payments - thought the government money went to rebuild public buildings and infrastructure.

Only the Federal Government offers "flood insurance", since private companies aren't stupid enough to offer it.

(did I actually teach Mel something?)

Personally, I find it offensive to call people stupid because of where they choose to live. If that's the case, everyone is stupid:

Those who choose to live in near wildfires. Those who live where tornadoes and hurricanes annually destroy property and lives. Those who live where snowfall can collapse their roof. Those who live in places where termites eat at their walls. Those who live in areas of high crime.

No one is stupid. They may made bad choices, but stupid? Seems a bit harsh, but maybe it's just my mood.

What about New Orleans?

Floodplains are good places for farms. The farmer has to have somewhere to live. But . . .

Allen

pufferfish

Yes, stupid is the exact word I would use.

The difference being that the minimum has been done to protect London from flooding with the barrier - unlike throughout the rest of England where the Government wasn't willing to pay up to keep flood defences adequate, causing mass flooding to people who bought property on flood plains during the boom.

In that case they knew the properties were on flood plains and probably paid higher insurance BUT they definitely didn't know that the insurance companies, pre-credit crunch, would basically weasel out of paying up or drag their heels for 18 months and keep them living in caravans.

I have a good friend east of Cleveland whose parent's house was one of 4 houses to fall off of a cliff into the river behind the houses, that were all half-million Dollar houses. When the houses were built, there was a back yard over 100 to 150 feet to the drop-off down to the river, which wasn't a steep drop either. It took a flood caused by a thunderstorm stalling and dumping 10 inches of rain in an hour to begin the erosion cycle as the river changed course and began to eat away at the hillside behind the houses. They tried everything over 20 years but one by one all 4 of the houses fell off the cliff as the land behind them vanished. And I have a couple of other friends east of Cleveland who lost 150 feet of property lakefront on Lake Eire in just a few short years too. The last time that I was there, a house nearby was for sale. But it was only maybe 50 feet from the backdoor to Lake Eire, down from 200 feet 10 years earlier. And some sucker bought the place too!!!

I saw something else in Cleveland recently when I was driving through downtown on I-90. Between E. 55th and E. 72nd St north of I-90 there is an old warehouse on the quay that has been totally redone and they were selling expensive yuppie lofts there. In the January, 1978 Great Cleveland Blizzard, 25-foot "surf" driven by gale-force NE winds was coming right into the harbor and breaking right over I-90 and right through the first three stories of that old warehouse. For many years after that the building stood with the first three floors completely washed-out. And now 2000 square feet with 20 foot ceilings is $200K+ there!!! I just can't wait to watch the tears rolling down their faces the next time that a strong NE wind blows there!!!

Heck, 4 years ago here in Denver we had a thunderstorm stall-out and we got 8 inches of rain in a half hour. And in an older industrial neighborhood just north of I-70 on the east side water was 4-5 feet deep even though that neighborhood is 50 vertical feet above a creek valley with just a trickle 95% of the time!!! The storm drains were overwhelmed and the water just backed-up. There were small cars completely under water, where it had been dry an hour earlier. Been a few towns here in the mountains wiped-out by avalanches or mud slides too.

Just last Spring it was flooding in the Cedar River that left downtown Waterloo, Iowa 6 feet deep, and 7 times in the last 3 years shoreline cabins along the Rock River in Moline, Illinois have been washed away too. This isn't the first time in North Dakota either. How about all of those people who live anywhere near "Tornado Alley"??? Think that a tornado can't hit the same place twice??? Even an F2 will throw your roof several blocks down the street. I saw what was left of south Oklahoma City a week after that super-F5 hit about 10 years ago. More than a mile wide of urban mixed residential/commercial was completely gone down to the foundations on either side of I-35 including concrete warehouses. There was an entire complex of 3-story brick apartment buildings just gone down to 2 or 3 bricks high. Why rebuild it??? It will just happen again, sooner or later.

Back when Cleveland, London, New Orleans, or Fargo were built, water-borne shipping or barge access was the reason they were founded where they were at. Here in the heartland, they have been warning that the New Madrid fault is overdue for another big earthquake. In the last big earthquake the Mississippi River was thrown 5 miles out of its banks in places, and there were thousands of deaths even in 1831. Nowadays an 8.3 quake on the New Madrid fault would involve the St. Louis and Memphis metropolitan areas, along with dozens of smaller cities.

Live by the water, die by the water, just don't make everyone else pay for it when things go wrong.

You did indeed.

I know this thread is way off topic and a little old but have to add my two cents. As someone who works in the urban planning and development field, I think part of the problem is the engineer who designs a site in the flood plain that requires fill material to raise the elevation. This isn't allowed everywhere, but when used, the site plan appears to handle storm water and surges through various means. The trouble.

Each site appears to handle the water...and every site approved appears to handle the water. However, one plus one does not equal two. All of this development in the flood plain taken as a whole can create more problems later on. Excessive filling in the flood plain also just shifts the water somewhere else---and places that never flooded before suddenly end up under water.

Then again there is the "500 year" rain event that means all bets are off. Nashville experienced this a few years back during a freak rainstorm.

Hurricanes are a different matter, but memories are short and the building continues. Disclaimer: I live in a hurricane and tornado prone area so do as I say and not as I do!