Newest Members
SiegmundNYC, TheGreatWhat, MyNameIsPaul, serenity38, vivo
12486 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Can-tex (45), cbchorn (41)
Who's Online
2 registered (don64, 1 invisible), 28 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12486 Members
74 Forums
64149 Topics
447593 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#278678 - 03/08/09 07:40 PM Celebrate Recovery ????
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6597
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Is it just me, or is Celebrate Recovery for CSA survivors a dreadful misapplication of the program?

I tried many weeks of CR and finally waltzed-out for good. NEWS FLASH FOR CR LEADERS: I am not to blame for my abuse!

_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

Top
#278695 - 03/08/09 09:55 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 695
Damn Robbie, you have a shitty leader or two if someone is telling you that. I am in CR, have been for about 3 years, and because Sex Addiction is big in this region, so is openness to sexual abuse. When I just had to just tell someone about my SA, I did so in a sex addicts group, and there was no change of direction, retort, correction, or misguided advice. Two guys then shared how their own SA had affected their sexual behaviours. One guideline is "we are here to support one another, not fix one another". My sponsor and closest friend are both sex addicts. And one experienced SA himself. So we have open conversations. That is what has never made me feel like an outsider.

As far as negative experiences, I had one. Under extreme stress, like when I started, I can be quite passive, accepting other people's beliefs and standards and not saying differently. I was in a codependency group, still am, and one leader for the group was---really controlling. I would say something, and although crosstalk is not allowed, I felt like he was in control of my feelings and the group's direction for that night. That said to me "Not Safe". I spoke about it several times in group (not doing crosstalk). He actually left a few months later due to a clash he had with the leaders. I've found the higher ups there very seasoned and sober enough to read people well. They knew he was brewing trouble.

Anyway, Robbie, if you are able or willing, TELL SOMEBODY what has come your way. Noone, anytime, has ever been given authority over you. I believe it to be very belittling. Someone just needs to be corrected quickly. Period.

I hope you have future success should you continue. Because those without our experiences have no right saying such things. Take care.


Top
#278699 - 03/08/09 11:17 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Robbie
I looked at Celebrate Recovery and made an email enquiry
and I had doubts
thank you for your feedback

I get the impression its more for addictions - where addicts made choices

could well be it's not for CSA

the leader I emailed ignored my question
I got the impression he has a one programme fits all approach
and I am sick of that

Robbie - may God show you a group / programme / ministry
whatever who DOES understand you
who does not blame you
who doesn't give stupid insensitive advice

maybe next time ask - "Have you any experience with sexual abuse?"

I was talking to man after church last night and I asked that question
his deceased wife had witnessed her sister being abused

he was very sympathetic

he opened up the>

Top
#278708 - 03/08/09 11:59 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: nathan555]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
I think it really depends on the group and who's running it. The one I visted ONCE (yes, I only went once and never returned) was definitely not for me or even safe enough for me to share about SA. I was nervous enough as it was, but when I realized that ALL the guys met together and any/all issues were discussed, I was out of there never to return. I've talked to others who have been to CR groups and in the ones they attended people with similar addictions grouped up. That might have been more comfortable for me, but the fact that it appears to just be a more "Christianized" 12 step recovery program for addictions kinda turned me off to it as well. While I know many SA survivors have addictions, it wasn't what I was looking for or needed at the time, and either way, the way the local one around me was run, was REALLY not for me.

So I sit alone. :-( At least I have a T. A local group would be nice, but I've beaten that horse far too much. I hate loneliness.


Top
#278713 - 03/09/09 12:16 AM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: JustScott]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Scott
thanks for confirming my suspicions
I would have been so frustrated in such a group

I am trying to set up something myself
it will take time
but it will be purpose build for male survivors
by male survivors

guess I am very very fortunate to be in a church small group for men with at least four survivors

but otherwise thee is nothing in this city of five million people

Nathan


Top
#278724 - 03/09/09 01:55 AM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: nathan555]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Scott,

I feel today that my addictions were a blessing in disguise because they force me into the rooms of AA and the 12 step approach to recovery. They are just way to learn to look inside of yourself and to address the problems that we cause ourselves.
They taught me that most of my problems are self-inflicted and that in order to change my life all I had to do was change myself.
Mic Hunter has a book about the 12 steps and how csa survivors can apply them to our lives. might be worth looking into.
In regards to CR sometimes we have to realize that any support is better than no support.
I don't know about you but isolation is worst then death to me.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#278728 - 03/09/09 03:55 AM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: michael banks]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6597
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
In the CR I went to, there was always a group reading of the 12 steps. I NEVER felt comfortable about several of the steps. I'm not an abuser. I am not addicted. I dont have a long string of those I've wronged as a result of my non-existent addiction.

I dont need 12 steps to recover. I think the 12-steps is taking the healing power of Christ and humanizing the locus of healing power. Instead, I experience and FULLY believe now that a ONE-STEP healing program applies to any of us. That is; The healing power of Christ,,,but he does not fix us in a flash. We learn things along the way to make our healing complete. MS (I believe) was a gift from God to me so that I would never feel like I was the only one, so that I could be affirmed, so that I would not feel like a freak, so that I could fellowship with other survivors (saved and yet-to-be saved).

Some day I'll stand up and claim a state of true healing and peace.

_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

Top
#278732 - 03/09/09 07:42 AM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Robbie
I agree entirely.
MS has greatly helped me but only through the strength and healing power of Jesus Christ, His love which removes fear, His healing power, can I press on to claim my recovery.
Nathan


Top
#278759 - 03/09/09 01:29 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: nathan555]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Rob,

So you are telling me that in your entire life you have not hurt others as a direct result of your behaviors resulting from your csa issues.
I bet your wife and others close to you would state other wise.

The 12 steps are away to look at,recognized and to make amends to such persons that we had harmed as a direct result of our own behaviors. All of our behaviors, sober or drunk it does not matter. Nor does it matter how many people you have hurt. What is important is to take responsibility and to change those behaviors which have hurt others and ourselves.

I believe that God puts all people and all things in this world.
Who am I to judge those who seek out and help those who are lost or hurting.
Was not the jew who was beaten,robbed and left in the ditch to die. Past by those of whom proclaimed to have the same faith as he. And was it not the samartian who reached out,pick up and carried this man. To where he could be treat and cared for until he was healed. In fact did he not pay for his care out of his own pocket.
So in fact who was more like Christ?
Those who proclaim to have faith or the samartian (who would not even have been aklowledged as even existing by those who claimed faith)who went out of his way and at expense to himself to care for someone he did not even know.

God, works in mysterious ways and His ways are not our ways.

In the end will we not be judge as we judge others?
You can not judge everybody by the actions of a few.

There is nothing more damaging to recovery in my opinion then a closed mind.
Is this not the problem alot of the bible thrumpers display to the world today.

In fact whom did Christ chose to serve?
Was it not in the sinners of his time and he rejected the so called holy ones.

Why was that?
A closed mind to the truth maybe?

Mike



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#278768 - 03/09/09 01:44 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: michael banks]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6597
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Rob,

You are getting awefully close to sounding alot like those bible thrumpers you so rail against.

So you are telling me that in your entire life you have not hurt others as a direct result of your behaviors resulting from your csa issues.
I bet your wife and others close to you would state other wise.

The 12 steps are away to look at,recognized and to make amends to such persons that we had harmed as a direct result of our own behaviors. All of our behaviors, sober or drunk it does not matter.


THAT is highly likely. However, I'm not seeing a connection between CR and ME. CR feels like adding diesel fuel to my Gas-powered Saturn.

But I'll give what you say a LOT more thought. The discomfort and sense of being mis-fit into the program may be a great indicator. If it is...I'm not sure I have the capacity to handle it right now. My CSR group makes me feel connected with others. The CR group makes me feel like Rush Limbaugh at a NOW convention.

_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

Top
#278771 - 03/09/09 02:04 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Rob,

At one time I was very active in AA. I went to meetings and hung out with others, like myself who were trying to overcome their addictions to alcohol and drugs. Always felt out of place but realized that was how I percieved all social gatherings all my life. But rarely do I go anymore because I no longer have the desire to drink and use to solve what I am feeling or my problems today.
I truely believe that God directed me to the fellowship of AA. First to get sober thru the 12 steps of AA and then thru my soberity to find Christ.
AA opened my mind and help me to resolve my anger at God.

God still works miracles in our lives if we are open to the power of faith.

Also I have decide to allow God to work thru whomever he choses not as I think he should.

Mike


_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#278807 - 03/09/09 06:18 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Celebrate Recovery may well be good to break addictions - if that is what one is looking for.
I made an enquiry and notes with suspicion the avoidance of my question "Do you help abuse victims?"

I am grateful that Robbie saved me the grief of yet another programme which does not meet the needs of csa. I wish the people who run these programmes would focus les on building up their numbers and more on caring for we who were abused against our will.
I am NOT responsable for the s**t SOMEONE else forced onto me.
Until they get that in their heads they cannot help me.

When they do we can talk about my responses - after they can bring themselves to acknowledge the csa I endured against my will. Even Adult survivors of Sexual Abuse don't want to hear our stories. Thank God for MS were we CAN tell our story and be believed. and we can talk about how we feel, and process our confusions.

While I am at it I am a Christian who absolutely believes there is healing in faith filled healthy Churches submitted to Jesus Christ but it cuts me up when I meet Ministers in certain conservative denominations and respectable Christians who
cut me off and don't want to know. Their desire to build a wall of silence really bugs me. I need the light of Christ to shine into my dark places. I don't need some ever so respectable pharisee building walls and asking me to hide behind it.

Nathan


Top
#278884 - 03/10/09 09:26 AM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: nathan555]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6597
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: nathan555
I am NOT responsible for the s**t SOMEONE else forced onto me.

Until they get that in their heads they cannot help me.


AMEN! I have spoken to $40,000 per month programs that state that they WILL NOT address root cause elements of my PTSD. How stupid!

As for not being responsible for what others forced onto me:
If there is "sin," and "sin against others" is in existence, the sinner must take responsibility. Jesus died for OUR sins. "OUR" = individual and collective.

If there is no individual responsibility assigned, working toward healing is a lot like chasing a greased-pig around the farm-yard.

Realized this; when I disclosed after long fervent, on-my-knees prayer, my addictions vanished. I am first hand witness to the healing power of God in that regard.

I only went to CR because I was seeking fellowship in healing. What I found was a lot of misdirected blame and locus of control. (Misdirected for my case)



Edited by Robbie Brown (03/10/09 09:30 AM)
_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

Top
#278930 - 03/10/09 05:05 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
KeithC Offline


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Southeastern USA
Hi Robbie,

I went once to CR and did not return. Our all male breakout session was 90 minutes long. No one could get out more than one to three sentences before the facilitator would interject his opinion and start advice giving. He dominated the discussion and easily used up 90% of the allotted time, telling everyone how to "solve" their situation. I left feeling manipulated and controlled and shut down. Kinda like I was muzzled and without a voice.

I have no idea what the CR format is actually supposed to look like so this could have been a rogue group. In my SLA and SLAA groups I feel safe and I feel empowered and I feel loved, which is what I need to come out and face this stuff.

Keith

_________________________
If the earth did not suck...we would all fall off.

If we don't change our direction we are likely to end up where we are headed. Ancient Chinese Proverb

Top
#279000 - 03/10/09 11:36 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: KeithC]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Hey Guys

Several of the Churches have started this program at there Churches. Using member that have lived it. I realy dont know what is or how it works. I do know that someone suggesting they can (Solve) your problems is just wrong.

I know that God is the only one that can solve a problem. He alows us to have free will He alows us to make mistakes. He will gentaly guide you back on the right track.

Im not saying that there are not some good places that will offer help for those in need. But , you have to do it for yourself.

That is my two cents worth.
God Bless ..Gary

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

Top
#279252 - 03/12/09 09:34 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: Still]
1love4christ Offline


Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 46
Loc: ca, usa
brothers...

hey you guys, i've been going to celebrate recovery for a year and a half. after all this time, there has been ups and downs but mostly with people. its not the program, its the people who sometimes misrepresent what the program is trying to help us with. celebrate recovery is adamant about confidentiality, and most of all, not trying to fix anyone. so if anyone is trying to do that, then they are mistaken themselves about celebrate recovery.

from my experience at celebrate recovery, i've learned that others have responded well to my share no matter how much they knew about sexual abuse. i've come to other victims of sexual abuse and have felt distant yet go to someone who doesn't know about sexual abuse and felt compassion. therefore, its not the program, or how much they are equipped with sexual abuse knowledge but the person who truly carries out what jesus christ has preached through god all along and thats love!

i'm proud to go to celebrate recovery because wounded and lost people go there admitting to their sickness. i'm humbled as others are after we share. i continue to go to celebrate recovery despite not having many to relate to my experience because I at least am bold to speak up and bring sexual abuse to the light in this world.

i simply will not live another day and refuse to be quiet based on my situation. here me roar!

_________________________
nestor

Top
#279262 - 03/12/09 10:01 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: 1love4christ]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 12:58 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

Top
#279263 - 03/12/09 10:04 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: joelRT]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Joel,

Just type in celebrate recover.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#279265 - 03/12/09 10:19 PM Re: Celebrate Recovery ???? [Re: michael banks]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 12:57 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.