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#278181 - 03/04/09 09:29 AM Pray-Away
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I actually had someone at church who knows my story a bit, tell me I need to pray-away the depression. Oh....OK.

Forgive me Lord for thinking (but not SAYING) F**k-off to a brother.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#278184 - 03/04/09 09:59 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
I'm not somebody that anybody would traditionally think of as religious- because i'm not, for me organised religion and "God" couldn't be further apart. For me my idea of god is very personal and not collective, so i hope you feel ok with me doing this, but i will pray for your healing, very much in my own way, but i think that is what it is all about, we all have our own way. Your friend has his way, and you can find yours.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#278185 - 03/04/09 10:16 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
if it were only that simple. as if every prayer request were expected to be granted just by waving a magic wand of some sort.

ah, but, jesus paid it all! the resurrection power is all you need. i just happen to have a bottle of it for sale!

we know that prayer does do a lot. though, i should be asking my own forgiveness for the tendency to point and laugh at people who suggest such naive solutions as the way to the cure.

prayer in my experience is mostly answered in process. to be directed toward that process is the first stage of realizing that the prayer is being answered.

depressed? enter into a therapeutic relationship: god intervening, prayer being answered.

to be given the insight to the solutions, ie, medical/brain chemistry issues, examination of faulty belief systems: god intervening, prayer being answered.

finding resolution to questions through the assistance of supportive friends and loved ones: god intervening, prayer being answered.

restoration of equilibrium to the imbalance of personal peace: god intervening, prayer being answered.

i really don't point and laugh at people who expect abracadaba type results to prayer. rather i see those as only one possible manner of meeting the hunger and supplying the need.

for me prayer is the process confirming that god is really who he purports to be, 'emmanuel god with us'. this is proven more often in god's participation in our lives in a relationship 'with', rather than relationship 'to' god as we understand god.

asking god to move a mountain of depression by miracle deprives a person of the opportunity to accept the healing effect as part of a process and in relationship with god.

i fired my vending machine god a long time ago. and brother is god glad i did.

wink just some thoughts,

ron



_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#278213 - 03/04/09 04:24 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Sans Logos]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
To me the physical realm and the spiritual realm are intertwined. They can not be separated. While there is a spiritual component to most things it does not mean we are to ignore the physical. There are things we need to do for ourselves.

Praying for a bone to heal is great but you still need to set it. There are logical things we can and are expected to do. The things we have no control over at all are the things that we can give over completely to God. It is here where we may see outright miracles. Which, by the way, requires faith.

This is why we see a higher frequency of miracles in third world countries; they have few resources and have only God to fall back on.

The more you know and the more resources you have, the less reliance we have on God and the less faith we develop and have. Unfortunately, when we are scraping the bottom and we find our selves with no place to go, that is when we go to God, and usually we are at a crisis level.

Something else we need to consider, God uses people. He uses people to work in His stead, though we may not know it. He uses people to speak to us, though we may not believe it. He uses>


Edited by Juni (03/04/09 04:26 PM)
_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

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#278247 - 03/04/09 10:26 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
I got an interesting picture in my head. Prayer as a broom. As if the lifted corner of a carpet can remove our problems. Out of site out of mind.

Some people can use their brooms well. I know a few ladies that ride one on occasions. LOL

I say pray away........it's a good thing, really. Just don't try to pick up the corner of the church.

Good Luck, Good Healing


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#278255 - 03/04/09 11:10 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: riveerboy]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
Robbie Brown...

Gymnastcs looks really easy ...till your down there on the floor doing it...so does ice skating...and dancing .


Seems a little heartless that someone who hasnt gone through what you are going through would be able to identify with your depression, or pain.I am sure they find prayer changes all the worrisome things they expierence... Do you think for a second that they would be able to handle the things that caused your sadness? Probably not...But sometimes you gotta talk to the big boss...and not the air...hummmmm?

Your sense of humor is still intact and that is a God given response to dealing with the stupid things we people visit on each other...

Prayer centers you and focus's your point of view, towards growth. It is the still small voice finding a place in your heart and giving the vioce a leg to stand on and be counted... ever continuing to morph its self into a new quest .

You know what you need to do, its hard work and alot to face...Take your time brother and include God in it.... Just a thought...nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#278286 - 03/05/09 04:38 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: nomansanisland]
1love4christ Offline


Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 46
Loc: ca, usa
good to know you're doing well juni...god bless brotha...

_________________________
nestor

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#278288 - 03/05/09 07:22 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: 1love4christ]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Robbie Brown
I know some brothers can be simplistic and don't understand but , and I say this in the context of my documented struggles in my posts here at ms,
that whilst we work through issues,
and I certainly have bouts of depression
and time of feeling blown away by csa

I also have times in praise and worship and /or prayer
when it lifts.

Guess there is the world of difference between brothers who stand with us in prayer, prevailing in prayer WITH us

and those who in a dismissive and uncaring manner tell US to pray away something as intense and complex as depression.

I brother prayed for me tonight at church - but I asked him and he cares and he works for a ministry where the boss was herself sexually abused.

When I get superficial uncaring platitudes I have been known to use your words including the **
seriously, many times (not at my current church)

I once told a Minister in my previous denomination who showed no concern for a four year old boy who was indecently assulted after church

(yelling ) "You hippocrite" etc
I think I used a few interesting words including ** and ***
and then walked into the next carriage of the train

and called that f*** church St Jezabells

so yeah
prayer works and can bring deliverance

but a sham is ** **** deplorable

Nathan


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#278335 - 03/05/09 03:04 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: nathan555]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
Rob,

Iím sorry that happened.

There are so many people out there that do not understand.

If been the recipient of similar statements. They leave us feeling insignificant and disquieted.

When ever I receive this type of response I respond by praying quietly in my mind, Lord forgive their ignorance for they know not what they say.

This is where turn the other cheek comes in but if I have the opportunity to educate them, I do.

When I do otherwise, my anger flares, and that is OK, its what can happen as a result of the anger that I fear. So, I try my best to understand where responses like that come from; they come from ignorance, then I pray and educate where I can.

Juni

_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

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#278380 - 03/05/09 08:47 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Juni]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I just look at it as I was trained to from childhood-on: People are evil, self-centered, opportunistic and untrustworthy. Only "people" can betray you. There is only ONE whom will never betray anyone, and they killed him about 1978 years ago.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#278384 - 03/05/09 09:00 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Robbie,

That is one of the main reasons I don't go to church much anymore.
All those well intentioned bible thumbers.
They mean well but don't have a clue in what it is too deal with csa issues.
Jesus would not set foot in most places that are called churches.
But I also don't do alot of AA meeting anymore because of the same reason.

Dogma is not the cure for what ails us survivors.
Besides I believe in GOD not in churches.
The two are not the same thing.

I put my trust in God. Not in man.

Mike


_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#278388 - 03/05/09 09:24 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: michael banks]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Yeah....I once entered a prayer request into a Christian Radio station when I was just beginning to fall apart with the PTSD stuff. Told them (annon) my brief situation. They sent back advice to stop sinning with my evil thoughts from the past.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#278389 - 03/05/09 09:28 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
I had a minister from my church to tell me that. Said that thing about the rapes was sinful thoughts. I haven't been back to church since. That was 2 years ago.


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#278399 - 03/05/09 10:07 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
They sent back advice to stop sinning with my evil thoughts from the past.


that's one of the reasons why i reject the christian right version of christianity.

there is no room in the inn for compassionate resonance.

i'm still praying for and with you,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#278401 - 03/05/09 10:17 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Quote:
There is only ONE whom will never betray anyone, and they killed him about 1978 years ago.

Thank God the story doesn't end there.


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#278521 - 03/07/09 12:14 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
There are many Christians and Pastors locked into repentance ministry (which is appropriate if I sinned - as I do )
but unhelpful and counter productive for csa

I tell them to change their approach.

Robbie - we know God loves us and He has a way to heal us

seek out Christian who DO understand

I guess I am fortunate I was able to mention my csa at men's group this morning
but I did already know there were at least two other male survivors present

a Christian understand begins with Isaiah 61

Jesus Christ took our pain in His suffering
when we feel our pain and His pain
and He took our pain ...

you have brothers who have also suffered who do understand

when I go to Sat night church in two hours I am going to pray for other hurting guys as well as myself

Nathan
Any Pastor can talk
show me a Pastor who can cry






Edited by nathan555 (03/07/09 08:51 AM)
Edit Reason: postscrpt

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#278522 - 03/07/09 12:21 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: christianfather]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Christian Father
see my reply to Robbie

yours makes me mad

Jesus was infuriated with fake ministers like that

He called them
"whitewashed tombes"
"scribes pharisees actors"

I grieves me as a Christian at the number of Ministers and Christians who are in denial
who don't want to hear our story

shit
rape is a sin and a crime

It wasn't our fault we speak the truth as ew tell our story
truth sets us free

ministers like that bind their people

yes - find a real Minister in a real church

Nathan


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#278591 - 03/07/09 11:16 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Hi Rob

I have been reading the posts with intrest. Pastors and lay people can be crule sometimes without meaning to..They dont understand what you (we) have gone through and it scares them
so they lable it as your sin. God understands and Loves you just the way you are

In the state of georgia a man can not be raped...it is sexual asult...I dont understand there logic and it scares me for the guy that was raped.

All prayer is answard some time God says NO....But we dont stop Praying...Dont give up on the Church ..help them understand make them be the church God wants them to be...

Praying always for you Brothers.....Gary

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#278601 - 03/08/09 01:15 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: wojax]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
I love that God's understanding reaches farther than that of the limited people we know around us, particularly those who want to sweep something under the rug. I truly feel that those who do not understand think that prayer is the way to approach what they do not understand. I agree that praying to God should involve our deepest hurts and worries. It just seems to be a catch-all answer from many folks, without putting much love behind the answer.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#280041 - 03/19/09 09:42 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
mapleleafsn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Eastern Canada
For me Prayer is communicating with God. Expressing to Him what the situation is that I am facing at that time. I don't always have the right words to formulate the true meaning of my feelings, However I trust Jesus in his advice that it is not the choice or amount of words that I use, but the emotion that is stemming from my heart that God hears.

I do not feel that it is a one-way street that believers can just ask God for what they want in a form of a wish list for Santa Claus. I believe it is a two-way street and if I am starting a conversation by speaking to God, I need to also take the time to listen to His prompting of my heart as a response.

I have had several experiences of the one you described. Some members of my church have noticed or sensed that something was troubling me and suggested that I pray about it. I find listening to God's response is included when it is suggested to me that perhaps I should pray to God about what is troubling to me. I need to take the time to quiet my mind and listen for promptings from God. This can be the most difficult part.

If you feel that members of your congregation are just flippantly using "Spiritual Catch Phrases" to make themselves appear to be helpful, caring, compassionate, etc.. perhaps you would do well to go church shopping and find a parish or group of Christians that are more humble.

There have been times that well meaning church friends have made suggestions to me that I was just not in the frame of mind to accept. Just because someone else has not experienced the same type of hardships does not completely discount his or her attitude of compassion for their fellow brothers and sisters.

My 2cents worth

Steve

_________________________
When the pain of remaining the same finally outweighs the pain of change---things will begin.... life is meant to be enjoyed not endured.

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#280237 - 03/21/09 08:23 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: mapleleafsn]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Steve
I tend to agree with you in that prayer is effective and heplfull.

As I pray God shows me new steps to take in my recovery.
I have had giant leaps and small steps.
Massive healing and slow reciovery.

Jesus is our answer. I have faith in Him to bring us through.

O grieve when some Christians and Pastors give flippant or catch phrase answers. It's shallow and can be offensive.
I am sadended that the western church is not the praying church it once was - with a few exceptions. I am fortunate to have solid discerning prayer partners.

prayer to be effective is certainly not shallow or quick or formulae but perseverance and endurance and faith.

God bless
Nathan


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#280242 - 03/21/09 09:01 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: nathan555]
tony2c Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 37
Loc: ny
Brothers;

As a Catholic, confession for me was a life line that God gave me, I spoke directly to Christ when I was there, it was private, secret, safe. That is the key it was safe, and the answers came immediately, thru the priest. I was always treated with compassion. I heard God tell me time after time, "It's okay I'm here and I will always be here". It worked for me.

I've heard horror stories and I don't doubt them, but the overwhelming good done, (again in my experience) far outweighed any evil horrors related to me by others.

Holy Mother Church nurished me with faith when I was hopeless, made me a part of something bigger than all of us when I was abandoned.

Best part of my experience - I knew Christ was there because he always found a way to be at the center of attention with sinners.That's what I found out about most Catholics ---people who knew they were created for a greater good,their lives are a gift from God to the world, but they fall short, way short, but it's the struggle that counts.

This is just one man's thankfulness for a Church that has always been there for me, even if there were some in the heirarchy "giving me hell" when I needed a taste of Heaven.

yours in crosses

Tony

_________________________
we are so accustomed to adopting masks before others, that we wind up being unable to recognize ourselves

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#280562 - 03/24/09 06:29 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: tony2c]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
I don't pray. I stopped praying when my prayers to God to take me out of the abuse situation went unanswered.


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#281431 - 03/30/09 05:21 PM HYPOCRITES !!!! [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Written in a SREAM:

I sat and listened to you on Sunday!

I sat 5 rows back from the stage and made eye-contact with you!

You've been told multiple times what I deal with.

I've asked, multiple times for your help...for any help.

You DARE stand there and preach about helping each other.

You DARE tell the congregation to seek opportunities to dig people out of the ditches of poverty, dispare.

You DARE fly a contingent to Rwanda every month to help people there when we HAVE TENT-CITIES AND HOPELESS HOMELESS IN OUR OWN CITY!!!!

We have people losing their homes right here in our own city and you fly half-way around the world to "help."

No wonder you cant see the needy in front of you. HYPOCRITE!!!! Look down. You'll see more need than you can handle.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#281454 - 03/30/09 06:09 PM Re: HYPOCRITES !!!! [Re: Still]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Robbie
Well spoken.
I fail to understand why the American Churches can have so many rescources, so many programmes and yet be blind to poverty within their own country, own state and own city.

I read of houses being sold at ridiculously low prices - why don't Christians buy then and rent back to the homeless who once lived in them - a cheap rent / buy back plan.

Why doesn't the American Churches help Mexico out of poverty - accross the border?

Why were the poor and the blacks left without supplied in New Orleans?

Why does the moral right demand their moral values be upheld
whilst being silent about Child Protection
and our needs, the needs of the abused?

Why do American Christians participate in the national sport - when a man falls kick him or walk all over him?

The Parable of the Good Samaritan is meant to inspire Christians to stop and care,
not to walk past the needy or kick the wounded man when he is down.
he is not "a bumb" he is my neighbour.

Robbie
try and find a Church who care.

Nathan


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#281551 - 03/30/09 09:51 PM Re: HYPOCRITES !!!! [Re: nathan555]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Guys
Dont lump all Churches into the few you know..Many Churches have outreach minatrys..My church has what we call the Hope House ..Jesus that we would have the poor always..
One Pastor told us that we had the best kept secret in town ..with in the four walls of the church..I agree we need to get out and help were we can..I do know that God answers all Prayers..just some times he says no...our he allows us to go through things we dont understand..
I for one do all I can for my brothers and sisters..

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#281584 - 03/30/09 11:56 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: Still]
overcomer4life Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 198


________________fainted____________________



I can relate to all of this!!!! SO MUCH!!! Whoa!!!!


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#281841 - 04/01/09 05:08 PM Re: Pray-Away [Re: overcomer4life]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Just to clarify. I know many great churches. I believe in the mission of the church.
I also recognise some fall very short
and leave too many hurt and wounded.
I have been the recipient of both.

the expections of Jesus Christ upon His church is clear for all to read
Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#281910 - 04/02/09 06:49 AM Re: Pray-Away [Re: nathan555]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

I agree with wojax.

Churches aren't perfect. Hell they're filled with imperfect people.
The church I go to realised a number of years ago that it was too inward focussed and so accelerated its community ministries. This year my church has ramped up even more the focus on community ministries. I think there is a lot of churches rising to the benevolence challenge. As Nathan said, he knows many great churches.
Praise God for that.
Jethro


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