Newest Members
JimHouston42, GKB, MorganWut, myrlin, AaronS
12466 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
BobdaFarmer61 (53), LeeM1974 (40), MATROS48 (57), victor valdez (40)
Who's Online
4 registered (L84, reynel5, 2 invisible), 26 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12466 Members
74 Forums
64007 Topics
446732 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#277276 - 02/26/09 09:05 AM Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
My CSA really messed me up for good in one way; I can't provide people I make love with the reassurance they want--maybe need that I am enjoying sex with them.

It all came out of those fatal words "See, your dick's hard! That mean's you like it! Your a fag." I had to tell a lover recently that it triggers me to have someone tell me that I'm enjoying it. He agreed not to, but I don't think he really understood the why.

This is hard to talk about but I seem to have gotten on a role with the spilling my guts lately, so why stop now? It's such an issue for me that it's actually easier for me to perform sexually if I frame it in my mind in the context of abuse somehow than if I try to see it as a pleasurable experience.

Of course it IS a pleasurable experience but I can't say that and it even can be a strong turn off if someone I'm topping smiles and expresses pleasure verbally to me, like saying "yeah" or "do it baby" or whatever.

But it just makes me sick that I have to think either like I'm raping or being raped for sex to feel natural at all. Ugh! Of course I would never want to really rape or be raped again..hell no! But as long as the rape part is just how I frame it in my mind and know that it isn't really, it is actually what enables me to have a sex life at all.

That's an f ed up thing to have to admit!

When the guy told me I liked it, as my penis indicated, the person I thought I was got smashed to pieces and replaced with some freak who wanted to be hurt which made feeling sorry for myself seem insincere and hypocritical.

It made me nauseous to think that I liked getting it in the butt, but the idea of my hating it turned me on in some sick way and that's the way I've been ever since.

I guess it's no surprise I ended up getting into bdsm. With that, I can skip all the worry about whether someone feels validated by expressions of pleasure I can't provide.

I have to pretend that everything is forced on either me or my partner by me. This even limits my activities, like if I'm bottom with someone they have to do the work, because if I do any of it, I'm participating which makes it too obvious that I'm enjoying it.

I think a lot of the sick feeling I get about it is that I still unconsciously equate fantasizing that consentual sex is actually rape, with actually wanting to rape or be raped.

I know in my head this isn't true. I might be consumed with lust once in a while and think I want to rape someone I find extremely attractive, but I also know if I were ever to actually try to do it, I would identify too much with the pain of the victim to carry it out.

But all the same, I feel like a sick, messed up individual. And there's a huge amount of anxiety dealing with this..wondering if it's going to completely turn my lovers off of me. That hasn't really happened yet, but it seems like a miracle it hasn't.

Anyone relate at all? so I don't feel so like a freak?



_________________________
My Story
My Art

Top
#277280 - 02/26/09 09:39 AM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic [Re: blueshift]
JBells Offline


Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Juneau
when you say it makes you sick that you have to think either like youre raping or being raped for sex to feel natural, i can totally relate to that. i was just talking about something similar to someone yesterday, when i think about some things that happened when i was a kid it seems to me that i liked it. i mean yeah they told me i liked it and wanted it to trick me or brainwash me, but i think i really did like it, the worse it was the more i wanted and im still like that today. i stopped acting on that but the feelings are still there. anyways, youre not a freak. thanks for putting this out here, this topic was bugging me out all day yesterday and i didnt know how to talk about it. JB


Top
#277301 - 02/26/09 01:14 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic [Re: JBells]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
It's nice for me too to put it out here and be understood! I've been going way outside my comfort zone lately in terms of the things I've been sharring..to the point where I'm giving myself anxiety attacks over what kind of replies I might get.

But it's a risk I'm willing to take because the possible benefit is that others who need to know they are not alone in these things but who may not be as able as me to share about them can feel understood and maybe even get a little more forgiveness for themselves when they hear from someone else talking about what they can't talk about.





Edited by blueshift (02/26/09 01:16 PM)
Edit Reason: typo correction
_________________________
My Story
My Art

Top
#277332 - 02/26/09 04:41 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic [Re: blueshift]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
It sounds somewhat similar to my re-victimization relationship that I had with close friend/fellow survivor when we were in our early 20s. This relationship was a consensual gay BDSM relationship where we agreed to "play" assault each other when we were doing IV coke together. I did have several consensual short or one night hetero relationships both before and after this too, but through my 2nd try at recovery all the sex that I ever had was initiated by someone else and felt like I was getting used. Even without the statement that you experienced, my body did respond normally to stimulation, even violently abusive stimulation like I experienced in my teenage years. That relationship went on for a year when I was 23-24. At that time it seemed that both of us wanted to re-experience what was done to us, and even later after that, BDSM porn was a problem for me, as well as several relationships I had with crack whores in my 30s where these women were willing to offer their bodies for abuse in exchange for a few more hits of crack.

There was a similar topic that Ken Singer started on the Sexual Identity forum a few days ago that I think that you might get some benefit from.

Your current experience sounds to me like a continuing outgrowth of where my friend and I were in our early 20s, a path that we did not take.

If you continue to work through your abuse issues, sometime on down the road you should regain the desire for consensual non-abusive intimacy.

Hope that this helps,

Mark



Edited by Trucker51 (02/26/09 04:43 PM)
Edit Reason: change one word
_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#277345 - 02/26/09 07:29 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive to [Re: Trucker51]
DannyT Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 402
Doug,

I think we have difficulty as survivors realizing that even 'normal' sexuality as experienced by the 'non-abused' has all kinds of seeming strangeness in it. I shared some of my weird fantasies with a friend who had never been hurt sexually, and she told me she has all kinds of rape fantasies, and the BDSM thing was a real turn on for her. Who knows where it came from? I don't think your issues make you "a sick messed up individual," I think they just mark you as human.

I think the fantasies really need to be recognized, accepted and welcomed so that they can reveal whatever it is they're all about. Holding them at arm's length or being scared or ashamed of them only gives them power.

One of the hardest things about being a survivor is that our culture really frowns on talking about sex in the kind of detail we can use here. We rarely share our personal fantasies and instead use the ones the media gives us. So we end up holding back as though everything about us is as strange to the rest of the world as the abuse makes us feel. If we were all to bear our true sexual selves the weirdness might sink the whole country!

For me, when I was able to look into my own sexual/fantasy life with acceptance the patterns became a lot clearer. I stopped shunning the weird things that were turning me on. Strangely for me or maybe counter to my own expectation, when I welcomed it all, basically saying i'm a kind and decent person, not worthy of condemnation and my sex self is just a part of that good person, the troubling stuff began to disappear. I'm just not turned on in the same way any more.

Hope that helps,

Danny



Edited by DannyT (02/26/09 07:31 PM)

Top
#277356 - 02/26/09 08:24 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive to [Re: DannyT]
nocona Offline


Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 33
Loc: western usa
wow - thank you for the post.

For me my dad had me ask for and describe to him every thing we did together. - "Tell me you want this technique" or "I going to do the thing with you." I'm trying not to be graphic. So I totally get that there can be a turn off when those seemingly same behaviors are exhibit with a current partner. I still can't verbalize "dirty talk" to my partner. It just reminds me the same words my dad had me say. so I get it. Still working on the courage to let it not get to me or take away from my "now" experience.

_________________________
nocona

Top
#277357 - 02/26/09 08:24 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive to [Re: DannyT]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
That helps alot Danny. Thanks. I agree. Part of me, of course doesn't but I feel in my gut that it's true. There are pitfalls to avoid of course, but keeping an open mind and moving forward prudently, I think bdsm can be a positive thing over all, and if my ass is black and blue once in a while for a time, it's not the worst thing.




Edited by blueshift (02/26/09 08:33 PM)
Edit Reason: add comment
_________________________
My Story
My Art

Top
#277358 - 02/26/09 09:22 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic [Re: Trucker51]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Trucker, once again, I don't mean to be ungrateful for your attempt at helpful feedback, but bringing up your involvement with BDSM along with IV coke use and crack whores makes me feel you are projecting your own negative associations with BDSM on me.

The gist of your reply seems to be that I should learn from your mistakes, perceive the morass of depravity I am mired in and start working my way out of this skanky lifestyle as you did. But the shoe does not fit, so forgive me for refusing to wear it.

P.S. I'm not trying to be high and mighty about not doing hard drugs and nailing crack whores, I'm just saying that BDSM is not a part of some larger picture of self-destructive behaviors as it may have been for you. Bdsm can be a positive thing for someone just as it can be a negative one. It all depends on whether its done carefully and with the right people.

I've seen both sides of that now. The fact that I wait till I'm in tears sometimes to say the safe word in order to punish myself does not mean I'm hell bent on destroying myself. I get a bruised butt and a nice endorphin buzz along with a little relief from my shame/guilt.
That's about it though. Sorry if I'm biting your head off, but overall, I'm feeling pretty good about my life and don't feel I'm headed down that wrong road you seem to be talking about.














Edited by blueshift (02/26/09 09:51 PM)
_________________________
My Story
My Art

Top
#277360 - 02/26/09 10:07 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive to [Re: nocona]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: nocona
wow - thank you for the post.

For me my dad had me ask for and describe to him every thing we did together. - "Tell me you want this technique" or "I going to do the thing with you." I'm trying not to be graphic. So I totally get that there can be a turn off when those seemingly same behaviors are exhibit with a current partner. I still can't verbalize "dirty talk" to my partner. It just reminds me the same words my dad had me say. so I get it. Still working on the courage to let it not get to me or take away from my "now" experience.



Yes, "dirty talk" is another thing I don't like at all. I really prefer sex to be completely without words. I never talk during sex except when absolutely necessary and like other people to be the same way.

I remember once when a guy was topping me and doing a darn good job and I was in heaven till he whispered in my ear that he wanted me to tell him I liked it. I murmured "yeah" or something but I instantly went from really liking it a lot to really hating it and feeling abused again.

It shouldn't be that way but it is thanks to my first perp. Actually my last one gave me a lot of new verbal triggers to avoid as well.

The sad fact is that I must have my sexual partners observe a short list of rules to avoid disruptive triggers or things just don't work as far as keeping me in the mood. The good news is there are understanding people who aren't too put off by that.





Edited by blueshift (02/26/09 10:08 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
My Story
My Art

Top
#277361 - 02/26/09 10:16 PM Re: Pretending to hate it. *triggers* sensitive topic [Re: blueshift]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
As Danny T says, some percentage of your average normal people have unusual sexual fantasies and enjoy unusual sexual practices, so your enjoying this type of sexuality isn't all that unusual. What is unusual about your post to me is your identification with your rape fantasies and your seeming inability to enjoy healthy consensual adult intimacy. You don't seem to want to feel that sex is pleasurable, instead you want to feel like it is abusive or that you are getting abused. Kind of funny, because that was where I was at also at one time too. But I moved away from there through my own recovery. What you choose to do or enjoy from here on out is what works for you. If you find my experience unhelpful, that is fine with me. I'm not trying to guilt you Doug. Nor am I trying to shame you either. I'm just telling you where I ended-up and how I got there.

My wife likes it a little rough sometimes too, and we have a great healthy intimate life together. Healthy adult intimacy and adult sexual pleasure is what most humans crave. But you are allowed your own opinions and feelings too. You can do whatever trips your trigger. So what is the problem?

Michael Banks wrote this a couple of days ago about boundaries and I have found it helpful a couple of times already.

"To everybody else your life and happiness is your responsiblity and not mine".

You are entitled to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness", in any way that you see fit. So go for it. Don't doubt yourself.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.