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#276762 - 02/23/09 10:27 AM Confusion as child from the abuse?
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I'm wondering if any of you had experienced sexual identity confusion as a child/adolescent because you became aroused during the abuse.

Did you think it "made you gay" or did the perpetrator imply or say that you were because of the arousal?

Ken


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#276763 - 02/23/09 10:44 AM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 02:04 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#276787 - 02/23/09 03:12 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: joelRT]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Ken: (May be ***Triggering*** to some)

I wouldn't say that my earlier abuse was that way. Up until the age of 14 mostly my abuse was just fondling, though some of it was painful and my body responded to the stimuli. From age 14 onwards, the abuse got more violent and my body responded to the stimuli to the point of ejaculation on several occasions. I was only raped twice, and both times were violent assaults, the first one part of a week-long misadventure that occurred three weeks before I turned 15 when my parents left me with a guy from their church, and the other a month after I turned 18 by a guy that picked me up when I was hitchhiking home from work. During the later assault I was tied-up and severe genital pain was inflicted on me too, something that I seemed to almost enjoy a few years later with another survivor while we were under the influence of injected cocaine. My week-long assault in Vermont at age 16 was extreme physical violence combined with violent and painful fondling and sexual battery, and my body did respond to that stimuli despite the pain and fear of several assaults.

I guess that my consensual relationships between the age of 14 and my mid 20s were bisexual, and I felt all of them were initiated by someone else that wanted to have sex with me. My longest consensual relationship during that period was the gay/pain/revictimization type of relationship that a close friend/fellow survivor initiated while we were high on IV cocaine. I still had a few one night or few night hetero relationships during that period, and I still remember how hard it was breaking-up with my former friend a year later. Not only did we end the sexual relationship, but also the close friendship that had existed up until the relationship turned sexual. I also had two gay one-nighter's at 21 and 22, when someone else wanted to have sex with me and for whatever reason I couldn't seem to say no. Both of these were under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol too, and in both cases I felt so used and worthless afterwards. I guess that they could be viewed as somewhat abusive also, and my inability to say NO and submissive reaction was because of my earlier abuse.

After my mid-20s my relationships were exclusively hetero, though I did struggle with gay bdsm and young adult gay porn too, along with the fact that I seemed attracted to younger guys on the street. Part of the problem was the fact that more and more of my male friends kept moving into healthy adult intimate relationships and I ended-up moving toward younger and younger friends as my later teens and 20s wore on. For instance, I still have a very close friend in Michigan who I lived next door to when I was 25 and he was 18. It was not a sexual relationship though I was attracted to him when he was younger. Perhaps I didn't try to take the relationship sexual because of loosing my other friend shortly before that. My other friend was two years younger than I was when our relationship started in our early 20s. In fact, I was invited to the 30th high school reunion of the graduating class that was 2 years younger than I was because I had been friends with a fair number of those guys.

My problem was initiating sexual contact. I just couldn't seem to bring myself to do it no matter who I was attracted to. Sex for me was something that other people wanted to do to me right up until my days with my crackwhore girlfriends of the early and mid 1990s, when they volunteered their bodies for another few hits of crack. A couple of them were into being abused for crack, and that seemed to fit right in to what was afflicting me. After I was involved with the one that was the most into getting abused for crack, she found a guy who also abused her teenage son to feed her crack habit, and she did serve some jail time for that. Thankfully, my last crackwhore engagement was almost 10 years ago now, during one of my last relapses in Minnesota.

I might have stayed clean after my 2nd trip to Hazelden, and did stay clean for 7 months, but one of my allegedly "sober" roommates in my sober house was a coke dealer who had followed a couple of his customers to Minnesota from Washington, D.C, and had masqueraded as an addict just so that he could ruin their recoveries when they all got out of drug treatment into the St. Paul sober community. He was co-facilitating an AA meeting and bragging about his year of sobriety when I first met him by moving into the sober house that he was living in. Just one of the pitfalls of drug treatment that I had to find out about the hard way, I guess. After he and I parted ways he managed to ruin the recoveries of several more Hazelden grads, one permanently. I last talked to Nick a couple of years ago on the phone, and it seemed like his life had gone way south since I had last seen him in 1999.

So I guess that it could be said that my abuse from age 14 onward contributed to some sexual-identity confusion in my own experience, and even though I left many of my problems behind some years ago now, I still find myself visually-attracted on occasion to youthful beauty no matter what sex it is. But I am a married man these days with a nice house in the suburbs and an awful lot to lose, with no desire to ruin everything that I have worked so hard for. Plus I do have several mentoring-type of relationships, where relatives and friend's sons look up to me for friendly guidance and/or Christmas gifts, that there is no possible way that I would attempt to take beyond friendly, concerned, and helpful because I am trying to protect them from what happened to me too.

Hope that this helps you Ken. Yes, some sexual-identity confusion was the result of my abuse and for a time I thought that I was bisexual. My direction since my mid-20s has been more towards active hetero and passive bisexuality to the point where I am happily in my 2nd marriage with almost all of my bisexual thoughts a distant memory. Any time I have contact with a younger person it is in a mentoring/nurturing/educational role and also in an attempt to protect them from harm.

Your comments are welcome. Sorry for the length, it is just something that I seem to be good at.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#276798 - 02/23/09 04:55 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Trucker51]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
*potentially triggering*



I think during my abuse I was for the most part too young to
fully grasp what was happening to get aroused from it. The abuse lasted for years, but it wasn't until my cousin started practicing oral sex on me (and I believe he made me try it on him at least once), masturbating in front of me explicitly, or attempting to sodomize me that I began thinking something was very wrong about what was going on. Those weren't things that boys were supposed to be doing to each other, at least not in my mind at 9 or 10 years old. Before all of that happened there was a lot of fondling and some frotteurism, which was initiated by him, but I didn't see anything wrong with that. My cousin had led me to believe that that was kind of like a special handshake between the two of us.


Anyways, at about the age of ten I told my parents what was going on, and everything stopped after that point, but some of the things said during the abuse left an imprint on me that most definitely confused the crap out of me at the onset of puberty, and then again this past year.

One of the reasons I'm posting here is because after about two months of feeling amazing and so much better, I freaked out when I was making out with a drunk girl this weekend, and I was sober and couldn't say "maybe we better wait to talk about this until tomorrow." I did thankfully have the conscience to not sleep with her, because she was drunk, I wasn't, and I can't take advantage of people like that. As a result, my brain has now suddenly decided that since I didn't hop into bed with her I must be gay. Although I don't personally believe this, it has made me review a LOT of my personal history and is making me question and do the entire back and forth thing where I don't know, so I figured I'd write some of this down and then I saw this topic.


Anyways, since my cousin was a close friend at the time, I believed at that time that exposing yourself or playing with your own or your friends genitals must have been normal. Mind you at that time I didn't have any friends at school, because I was an outcast, which has stuck with me for a long time. So it was that year in fourth grade when the abuse was just about to end/just ended that I met my best friend. This kid to this day is basically my brother, and his Mom still refers to me as her second son. But in the beginning, and thank god this kid said "No" I would ask him to do stuff my cousin had done with me, minus the oral sex/masturbation/sodomy stuff. After he had said no, I thought that maybe that wasn't something boys were supposed to do with their friends. Several months later when I realized that my cousin had been trying to have sex with me, I got scared in health class that I might have contracted AIDS, I told my parents, and my Dad was furious and told me what a pervert my cousin was and he was a sicko and blah blah blah. Although that may have been an attempt to make me feel better, I instead began believing that things like masturbation and the like were things that perverts did, and if I engaged in any of them it would be bad, perverted, etc and so on.

The second issue from that was that as a nine year old I obviously was not as well endowed as my cousin, who was at the time twelve or thirteen and had already started to undergo puberty. He masturbated in front of me only once or twice, but that is one of the most vivid memories I have of the entire experience. He told me that his ability to do that and ejaculate meant that he was a man, and so I equated masturbation and being able to ejaculate with being manly. Also, since I viewed him as being well endowed then (and I think he probably actually was, but I don't know, and I sure as hell don't feel like asking) I thought that I also had to be that well endowed, and that started a bizarre obsession with people's penis sizes and the like, which thank god after therapy and time has faded away. That was a real mind fuck though, especially at puberty.


So in synopsis, here I am at this point in my prepubescent state, thinking that once I started puberty and all that other stuff that comes along on the "magical journey" I would have to go through all this stuff, my penis would be huge, I would magically out of the blue just start having sex with random girls who approached me (no idea where that came from, wishful thinking maybe?), but I couldn't masturbate because that was perverted (and believe me I tried, even though i was what, nine or ten at the time. I just sat there and figured if I thought hard enough I'd ejaculate) and had this really weird obsession with penises.

On top of that, I was an outcast in most of elementary, middle, and high school, so I was routinely called "fag" and singled out for bullying by most of the kids I went to school with in my small town (my graduating class was 203 kids, not the smallest, but pretty small), even though physically I was bigger and probably coulda squished most of them. That aside, I finally figured out the whole masturbation thing in sixth grade, and by then I didn't really care if it made me perverted or not, cause it was just this overwhelming urge (read:hormones) and it bugged me all the time. So pretty soon that became borderline compulsive behavior (every day several times a day, and sometimes until it started to hurt). Fantasies in the beginning were basically focused on me and visualising myself being better endowed for lack of a better word. I would also think about sex in the fantasies, even though I had no idea what a vagina looked like, I knew how sex was supposed to work. Those sex fantasies never involved me though, just disembodied organs doing the thing or some perfect vision of somebody I knew who I wanted to be like and whatever girls I knew personally who I found attractive.

Well it didn't take long before, being frustrated at my lack of dates and constantly being called gay, I started to wonder. After all, I had done a bunch of shit with my cousin back down the road that definitely fit the bill, and there were times at the camp I went to when the other kids in the cabin would do a "show me yours and I'll show you mine" type thing and I got an erection (happened the first time between 4th and 5th grade, and I was NOT happy about it). There was also this billboard you could see if you watched TRL on MTV that showed a guy in underwear who was ripped and seemed very well endowed (underwear model, of course) and it just so happened that that was the kind of guy I wanted to be so badly. Why I got aroused to this I don't know, but I think there's definitely a pattern stemming from what I expected myself to be after the abuse, this idealized ripped muscle dude with a huge penis.

As I got older and got into high school I knew that I was into girls and wanted a girlfriend. I didn't want to date guys, but I would fantasize about the people who ragged on me all the time having sex with each other, god only knows why. Victimization maybe? Maybe a mental coping strategy to efemminize them so I could feel better about myself, who knows. Either way it's clear to me now that my sexuality was warped and definitely not what I would consider a normal healthy sexual development, heterosexual or homosexual. That would expand to friends I knew who I thought were better looking than me having sex with each other or girls I knew, just really bizarre stuff. About that time I started thinking to myself "maybe this has something to do with what happened" but I just kinda went "well whatever, I'll probably grow out of it". By the last semester of my senior year I was experimenting with solo masturbation porn (typically male, because I didn't call it experimenting if it involved women). Even with that though I felt that it was abuse related, not my true sexuality. It turns out that I was more or less correct, because after a lot of EMDR my desire to watch that kind of porn has faded, along with similar fantasies. The few times I did watch it after the EMDR to see what happened, I didn't feel aroused, it was like I was just watching something, no big deal. That was a good sign for me, but anyways, back to the confusing stuff.


By the end of high school I wasn't getting seriously involved with girls, but the summer before my freshman year of college I had at least finally kissed a bunch of girls and knew DAMN sure that I liked that an awful lot. Some of my weird sexual behaviors like my need to shave off as much of my body hair as I could, my "attraction" to younger boys (this gave me a lot of grief, I couldn't believe I was having thoughts like that, that one was so bad to me that it actually disappeared on it's own LONG before I went into therapy) and my fantasizing about my friends having sex with girls I liked or themselves were gone. Not long after that I entered my first relationship with a girl, which has been the only one to date. At first I thought that she wasn't so ugly I wouldn't consider dating her, and her personality was a really good fit for me because she was laid back and not imposing. I liked being with her before we had sex, because we would make out and it would always get me going, but the both of us were virgins, and I was very eager, and she wanted to wait and make me work for it. Needless to say, I got bored with making out pretty quickly. Fast forward to the first time we had sex, and she was emotional, not into it cause it hurt, and since she wasn't enjoying herself I didn't enjoy it either. On top of that it was like I just went numb when it came down to it. Here was this naked female in front of me, something I had seen on the internet in movies and pictures, and I was just numb to it. Didn't know what to make out of it. So that was a bummer. That was also when I realized that I can't seem to get aroused from oral sex, which I believe is related to the incidents with my cousin. That's been the pattern since that relationship broke up as well. The second time we had sex was MUCH better, at least for me, but overall I thought it was over too fast, and I still kind of had to hold myself back because I didn't want it to hurt her at all. After that night I devoted myself to studying all these different ways I could please her sexually, and like a typical bone headed 18 year old completely ignored her emotional needs, all because I didn't want to be that sketchy college kid at her senior prom. Stupid huh? Anyways, we went out for a while after that, but there wasn't any sex, and that really irritated me. I was looking forward to making this girl feel so good she was going to want to explode or something, idk. Needless to say when we broke up, it was both frustrating, but also good in a way. I was frustrated cause I had nobody to have sex with, and I had a lot of studying saved up for that. On the other hand, a purely sexual relationship wouldn't have lasted anyways, and I noticed that after she felt that we were more committed to each other after loosing our virginities to each other, she let herself go, and I wasn't finding myself as attracted to her as I used to.


A few months later, the gay porn experiments came back, my pot smoking habit increased, and I became more and more socially isolated. This lasted until the following summer, between my sophomore and junior year of college. By the end of that summer I decided to quit messing around with gay porn because it was just confusing me, and I didn't really have any attraction to any of my male friends. I figured then that since I most likely wasn't gay, there was no point in obsessing over it and being terrified of being homosexual. That next semester was awesome, I lived my life normally and had a great time, until the end of the semester. I hooked up with a BOMBSHELL, and that one night involved a lot of making out and dry humping, but nothing further. She was an amazing kisser, and apparently she didn't think I was half bad either. The next day I had three humongous hickeys on my neck and chest, and she had four. Also, unlike my ex, she liked it a little bit rough. Not crazy rough, but not so gentle that I felt like I would break her if I wasn't careful. So that made me pretty happy, we exchanged numbers, and there was talk at the end of the night of dating. Needless to say when she called the next day and said she wasn't interested because she had just gotten out of a relationship and wasn't ready for another just yet, I took it personally, that something was wrong with me. Over the following winter break I went back to experimenting with gay porn, and this time I was so distressed about it that I would have bad dreams about it and was consciously depressed and distracted by it. That was last year. In March I got outrageously high, had a three day long panic attack, and was so terrified of thinking I was gay that I went to my Mom and Dad, seperatley, and told them everything again, about why I was freaking out and the abuse.

When I told my Dad, he asked if I wanted to go find my cousin and then he and I could make him swallow his own teeth. I thought that it wouldn't do any good to get violent, let alone confront him since that had already happened once.

Mom recalled that I had told her, but thought that my cousin was only making sexually suggestive remarks. I chock that one up to a coping strategy, I remember I had told her everything, but that's neither here nor there. Anyways, her response as a therapist and a social worker was "listen, you had always said you were lonely and wished you had a girlfriend before. Your sister and I both knew you had crushes on a bunch of different girls, even though never told us and would get mad if we asked (idk why to this day I got defensive about this, if you have any ideas I'd love to hear em). Furthermore, I never ever thought you were gay, and I still don't think you are ( I asked her ). I think you've taken you're loneliness and that awareness of what happened between you and your cousin and mixed them together, taking two separate things and accidentally confusing them for something else". After that, I felt like twelve million tons of stress had disappeared from my shoulders. That was only temporary though, and I went back to my mom, got some contact numbers, and got myself into therapy.

That was about a year ago to date, and in that time I have come to the point where I believe and identify as straight, as many of the behaviors that I thought meant I was homosexual have dissapeared. On days when I get depressed, the thoughts are still there, but the desire and urges to act out are gone. It is the re-examining of the past that's bothering me now, as well as my inability to allow myself to get close or intimate with girls, as well as my difficulty in approaching them. As a result, I feel like a nervous 13 year old in the body of a 21 year old.

As far as the sexual confusion, I have come to see a very clear connection between it and my abuse. I believe if the abuse hadn't happened, my sexual development would have been a lot healthier and normal, regardless of what my orientation would have been. Since I was always looking for girlfriends and wanting them in elementary school, middle school, and some of high school before I lost hope and confidence in my ability to get a girl, I believe that's what my true orientation has always been, and I've been reconstructing that.

Another factor that allowed me to settle on that orientation is that over the past year, even though it caused me a lot of stress, I told myself that I had to be honest, and that if I was actually gay I would embrace it and do what I had to do to adjust to it. The further I went in therapy, the less likely it became, and even now when I am questioning it, there is no desire or impulse that would make me believe I'm gay, so that was that. If you've heard of Kinsey and Klein, I would say I'm somewhere on that scale between straight and bi. I'm not exclusively evenly bisexual, but after everything I've been through in life I don't think I can say that I'm 100% completely straight. I think Kinsey classifies that as a 1 or 2, with 0 being exclusively straight, 3 being evenly bisexual, and 6 being exclusively homosexual.


For me, getting over that issue was probably the most central one. To me it was the most confusing and distressing one to me, as it was the one that was constantly hurled at me as an insult throughout my school years. In my EMDR, I never had a hangover where I felt angry after a session in which I discussed my orientation. The appointment after that when I felt that it was time to move on I instead uncovered a cognition that if I stood up for myself, I would be punished, and that proved to be much more powerful and deeply routed, so I view the sexual confusion issue as one that was a distraction from the larger, potentially more painful issues. Hope that helps, and as always if you have any comments on that small novel there I'd love to hear them.


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#277363 - 02/26/09 10:25 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: AndyS87]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1960
I don't think I'll be able to match your guy's posts for length, but here is my input:

My situation involved a peer at 13 or 14. I was pressured into doing things I didn't want to do. There was probably a total of three or four times things happened. The sexual acts were severe if I can use that term (it was more than touching).

I had never had any thoughts about doing this with another guy, and honestly the idea of it when presented to me was of no interest (in fact, I was scared by the proposition). I had seen another boy perform oral sex on another boy in a locker room in like 2nd or 3rd grade (he basically just put his penis in his mouth) and knew it was a stupid idea then.

As best I can remember, I repressed everything all through high school. But I can see in retrospect that I was doing things as defense mechanisms in defense of my "manhood". I see now that on some level I was very insecure about myself, and full of anxiety. I am quite certain just below the surface I was very scared about what happened.

When I remembered I slipped very deeply into that "I am / Am I gay" type thinking. It wasn't that I was attracted to men or boys, though admittedly when I was down I saw traits in males that I thought I lacked and would feel insecure about. I guess all I can say is that I struggled with this for a long time, and since I was unable to face and deal with what happened it was a big part of my life.

Today I can say with certainty that I am straight, though I too would probably fall somewhere right of that Kinsey 0. I'm pretty certain I will not engage in any same sex activities because I am just not interested. I am gaining my self-esteem back and hope to be able to get back where I can enjoy the company of females. My attractions are certainly there. But, yeah I struggled for a long time with this because I didn't deal with what happened. As far as my high school years go, had my mind/soul not exerted "super human" means of repression, I am certain those years would have been full of questioning and doubt as well.

Eric

P.S. Andy, I can relate to what you said about not wanting anyone to know about girls you liked or wanting to talk about it. I'm not so sure of the reason of why as well, but I never felt good with my family and sharing my emotions so for me that may have been part of it.


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#277458 - 02/27/09 04:05 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: ericc]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Ken,

As a teen and throughtout my early twenties I had alot of fear that my sexual abuse at the hands of my fifth grade teacher would condemn me to being homosexual. These thoughts were in no way connected to what Mr.C said about what he was doing to me. Because he never talk about it,sort of like if we don't talk about it,it is not really happening.
My fears were the result of not having anyone to talk about what happened to me and the pleasure I felt as I was being abused. The isolation that I lived in because of my abuse trapped me in the sexual confusion I felt as a young adult.
To me since I got some pleasure and enjoyment from being stimulated sexually by Mr C. it most some mean that I liked it. Which I figured must make me gay at some level. I did not grasp the aspect that I was being victimized only the fact at times it was sexually exciting.
It created in me alot of difficultly in being sexual in my young adulthood. And until I was 20 or 21 I confined my sexually to masturbation and porn. I still have a hard time with being comfortable in an intimate situation with another person. It always takes for time for me to be comfortable with someone touching me sexually or intimate matter.

Mike


_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#277509 - 02/27/09 09:11 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: michael banks]
1islandboy Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 857
Loc: washington
*** Trigger Warning ***

Ken,

Dr. Wizenhimer seems to think that you are born with an assigned sexual identity and csa has nothing to do with changing that fact...

That being said...I believe (after alot of soul searching) I was born straight and my csa has pulled my into the realm of bisexuality. (I identify straight and twisted, backing away from straight with bi-sex tendencies). I can't really prove this, as my sexuality was disrupted/short curcuited between the ages of six and seven.

This all brings me back to the wow moment when I was reading, "Speaking our Truth" It said basically that..."He realised he BOTH hated and loved his brother for binding...corsetting and screwing him"...."he had taken the abuse and eroticised it".

Get that...don't know what to do with it...but I get it...!!!

So to answer part one of your question...because of the fact that my unkle was married to my aunt...(i.e. that he was straight) made me odd man out...ergo, I must be gay or somehow denying or repressing my gayness.

Weirdly enough and looking back... when it first started happening he snuck into my room and initiated doing oral sex on me, way before I started doing oral sex on him...(and with this logic, I guess that would make him gay before me). Blank when the transition occured.

Part two of the question..I can't rememember him ever implying or saying anything period...!!!

The hands always told me what to do or where to go. Gentle caressing hands at first, that later led to gagging. he really got off on that...(especially when he....),which just led to more and more...and in the end...sickly enough...my body and mind BOTH hated and loved being perped.

For sure...absolutely positively sick and twisted (but that is my truth)...Welcome to the monkey house...!!!


Can You See the Real Me? (Wasp)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#277555 - 02/28/09 05:32 AM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: 1islandboy]
Bruce1000 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 11
Loc: United States
I have been in a Deep Depression for about a week now. I was abused as a boy and a Teen, both Sexually and Physically. I spent years thinking I was GAY. I thought I had all this licked, when one night I was watching some Youtube Videos. I clicked on to one and It a video about 2 young men forcing another young man to have oral sex. For some reason I felt like I was a teen again and I began to shed few tears. It hurt. I spoke to my Pschyologist about the incident and he gave me the same old Pschyco-bable. I am still attracked to Younger guys, but I deal differently now.
Thanks for the stories.



Edited by Bruce1000 (02/28/09 05:38 AM)
Edit Reason: mispelled words
_________________________
Our years are as the falling leaves-we live we love we dream, and then we go. But somehow we keep hoping don't we that our dreams come true on that Brighter Day.
.........Opening to old radio serial BRUGHT DAY (1948-1956)

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#277562 - 02/28/09 08:46 AM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Bruce1000]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Bruce
When we were boys and were csa by a man
the b*s**rd set an automatic link between a man and sexual arousal
he had no right to activate
it's the nature of being violated
I call it unwanted same sex attraction
it's a battle worth fighting to resist it
and develop new asociations
I also find I have to watch where I look
looks set us guys off
its a male thing

hope my thoughts help

ah ... we all have struggles and pain
but we encourage eachother to work throough it

Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#277564 - 02/28/09 09:29 AM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Ken
my understanding is my perps set off involuntary unwanted same sex attraction.
there were times when I was asked if I am gay. My answer is no as I have not embraced a gay lifestyle.

I struggle and confess to (at times) entertaining
same sex attraction but the latter is a left over from the involuntary stuff - i had no idea what was influencing me.
Now I know I am able to process it

I have flash backs

I think it's mostly wanting to talk with survivors who understand me

there is too much pressure from gays - some taunt me
question my sincerity if I say I am not gay

It creats a pressure which slows progress. I find.

I talk with gays and appreciate their position
I would just like a bit of space in return

and my choice respected.

the choice to reject ssa and be hetro

Nathan


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#277581 - 02/28/09 12:32 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: nathan555]
ComicBookGuy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 443
Loc: London, England
Ken

The honest answer to this would be "yes, when I was a child". The fear was there, regardless of how many girls I chased at school, adolescence was a tough time figuring things out.

Carried on trying to have a romantic life through college and up to late 20s, gave up, now considering the worth of fighting to have a relationship when that's another ball game altogether, post-healing. You have to want to be in one for a start.

Nathan - see the quote from JoelRT in my signature and put it into practice. At least my gay friend admitted he had no idea what to say regarding my CSA and couldn't advise when I disclose. Up until then, he assumed I must have been gay if he decided he was (we were discussing questioning sexualities earlier in the friendship), but people with that recruitment attitude, they're just another bunch of agenda jockeys. Ditch them.



Edited by ComicBookGuy (02/28/09 12:33 PM)
Edit Reason: missed words
_________________________
- CBG

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#277641 - 02/28/09 09:50 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
I'm wondering if any of you had experienced sexual identity confusion as a child/adolescent because you became aroused during the abuse.

Did you think it "made you gay" or did the perpetrator imply or say that you were because of the arousal?

Ken


I have not read any of the other replies here. I will tell you about some of my experiences briefly.

I was a cute kid. Girls fancy cute kids. Doesn't matter what your personality is like, not really, i was quiet, there is no way any of these strange girls knew what i was like.

I had lots of girlfriends, all short-lived, i would dump them all fast, i didn't see the point of having a girlfriend, i would prefer to just play as friends. But i found it hard to say no when they asked me.

Breasts have never been a great attraction, i like small breasts, and short hair, that still worries me sometimes, thinking that i may be looking for a girl that looks more like a boy.

Sometimes i had more than one girlfriend at a time, of course i had a guilty conscience, but i was a kid, and this girl would tell me to think of it as practice for my girlfriend, so i would listen to her.

When i was in my teens i sometimes found myself attracted to younger boys, never boys my own age, that was disgusting, but boys younger than me. Of course, i could see how messed up that idea was. For a while i really struggled with that idea, finding that i was sexually attracted to younger people. But the only reason i was feeling sexually attracted in that way is because i was given that kind of sexual pleasure at that age. I don't feel any sexual attraction to younger people anymore.

What was it? it was the fact that i was strong enough to get in touch with my own feelings, and therefore strong enough to have empathy, rather than to explore my own feelings through repetition. It was the fact that i had empathy, a quality that differs humans from the beasts. Imagine it, really imagine it, i really dont know what kind of person can go through with something like that.

But sometimes the idea of doing sexual things to a man, an older man, invade my mind. Does this make me gay? even though i may want it? even though i may temporarily feel impulsed towards it?

NO

it doesn't

i understand the deep set reasons that may draw me towards certain things, but i recognise THAT, i truly do, and i recognise the feelings and emotions that may say certain things, but i SEE where that come from, and i see WHY.

That's the difference.

CONFUSION. Of course. I often thought maybe it meant i was gay. Not because of anything anybody said to me. Nobody said to me look that means you are enjoying it, and i never even related the enjoyment to their gender- i could masturbate on my own, i couldn't ejaculate, but i could feel the magical feeling. It didn't matter if it was my dad or my brother or my neighbourhood friend who was a girl or if it was just me, it was the same stuff.

Did i ever fancy any of my friends who were boys? not particularly. There was one boy, we were friends, he basically tried to have sex with me, once we were play fighting and he put me in that position, he even made me bleed by holding a knife on my head really hard (we had been play fighting rough and this was how he could win). But was it a feeling in the real sense, or a feeling of submission where i owed him this to be my friend. It was the latter. It was not because i was gay, it was because of the false lessons abuse had taught me.

I have done so much in my past sure i wouldn't think much of pleasing a guy if he wanted to be pleased, still sometimes when i feel intensely towards somebody it pops into my mind for a miilisecond maybe i should give this person what he wants. But that isn't being gay, that is messed up thinking left over from so many years of abuse.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#277645 - 02/28/09 10:31 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: king tut]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
I never really thought about it until I went to high school and was in care. I went to an all-boy high school. I didn't mind that so much since I was use to be being around mostly boys. But it dud worry me because every time I said something about the girls in the all-girl school across the field or talked about some WWF (it was still that at the time) diva, I was just going through the motions. Sometimes girls looked at me or seemed like they were interested, but I just wasn't attracted to them at all. I definitely didn't want to kiss them or have sex with them.

At the same time, I wasn't interested in any boys. It was weird being at school because everyone was hyper-vigilant about being called gay, yet some of the boys would brush up against me or stand close to me in the line in a way that I knew what they were up to. I made out with one boy a few times, but that was as far as it went. I assumed he was gay and that maybe I was too for doing that with him, but I wasn't really sure. I wasn't attracted to him at all.

Once I went to college I would make out with girls at some of the parties I went to. I didn't like doing that either, but I just went through the motions. I never initiated anything.

I don't know if what happened confused me so much as it made me indifferent. I'm not particularly attracted or not attracted to men or women. I do know I that I have more problems being with women than with men. No one ever specifically said I was "gay," although I was told a lot as a child that only "sissies" were good at pleasing men.



Edited by jacobtk (03/03/09 04:49 PM)
_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#278026 - 03/03/09 09:31 AM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
I certainly struggle with unwanted same sex attraction as a result of being aroused during my abuse

sometimes it drives me

until recently I had no idea what "it" was but now I know I can process it.

I am not gay but I get tired of being asked if I am gay when I raise ssa

Nathan


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#278337 - 03/05/09 03:14 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
I'm wondering if any of you had experienced sexual identity confusion as a child/adolescent because you became aroused during the abuse.

Did you think it "made you gay" or did the perpetrator imply or say that you were because of the arousal?

Ken

Ken,

From the retrospect of time, I realize that I had attractions to guys even when I was pre-adolescent. There was some of the 'show me yours and I'll show you mine' with peers and there was some mutual masturbation with a close friend who lived down the street from me. When he moved away, I felt very alone. I knew that what I was feeling could not be talked about with anyone. My older sister's boyfriend,Donny, befriended me, he was a few years older than me. He was like a big brother to me and we talked about all sorts of things, especially sex. One night when we were alone, playing hide and seek out in a field. Donny found me and we started talking. I was concerned about the size of my penis. I was only 11 years old, and he showed me his and asked to see mine. His was much larger than mine but he assured me that mine would be big like his one day too. Donny got me erect and then sat down on my ankles and proceeded to give me oral sex. I tried to get away but couldn't. I was getting very excited and I threatened him. I told him if he didn't stop I'd ejaculate. He just looked up, sort of smiled, and finished me off. He told me how much I'd enjoyed that. He and I went over to his house afterwards. He wanted me to spend the night. I was terrified. His grandfather was there and I was frightened by the look on his face when he looked at me; it was like he was starving and I was a piece of meat. I told them I had to call my mom. I called her and basically had a one-sided conversation telling her all the made-up reasons that I couldn't spend the night over at his house; she said that I could and should. I told them that I couldn't and ended up walking home; probably a couple of miles or so in the dark. Mom was surprised to see me come home. She had been drinking, as usual when dad was out of town, and I told her that I just wanted to come home. No questions were ever asked.

I was in Boy Scouts and Donny was one of the oldest boys in the troop. When we went on Boy Scout campouts or to summer camp somehow I always ended up in Donny's tent. Most times we ended up doing mutual masturbation, one time he made me give him oral, one time he tried to pentrate me anally but it hurt too much. One time at summer camp on the first night I had just had it, I told the Scoutmaster that I wanted to go home. I cried and cried and got to call my mom. She just told me to tough it out, that they'd spent the money to send me to camp I needed to stay there. I moved into a tent with another boy who wanted to go home. I felt safer there but there were stories of what went on in Donny's tent and the two of us were made fun of. I knew that I could never tell my mom about any of this, I felt that she just wouldn't listen.

One time when we were at a campout one of the young assistant Scout leaders told Donny that he had to sleep in the tent with him. On the way home the next day Donny made all sorts of snide jokes about the assistant scoutmaster. I never saw that assistant scoutmaster again and no one ever talked about it but there is no doubt in my mind that something happened and I was happy that it didn't happen to me.

When Donny and his family suddenly moved away, I felt abandoned.

I remembered everything that ever happened but I knew that I just couldn't be 'queer'. That was the worst thing that you could call anyone back in those days (1958). I made it through junior high and high school, I went to four different high schools in four different states so I was always a loner and never had any close friends. I learned about alcohol when I was 15-16 and would sneak beers or hard liquor every chance that I had. I was good in school and graduated with a 3.8 GPA because I thought that as long as I was perfect no one would notice all of my self-percieved defects. I went to college and found out about drugs. I ended up dropping out. I felt it was my obligation as the only son in the family to get married, have children and carry on the family name. I married a friend of my younger sister's and really did love her dearly. There was always the subconscious desire for sex with guys but I held it at bay for years. After five years of marriage we had a daughter and ten years later we had another daughter with several miscarriaged in between. I was sexually enthusiastic with my wife and never had any extra-marital sex with any other woman. But to my great shame I did seek out anonymous groping with other guys, especially when I was stressed about something else.

I finally sought out therapy when I was fifty years old in Colorado. I started dealing with all the things that were going on in my head. I started feeling better about myself, gained some self-esteem, found a better job back in California so my wife could be closer to her only sister. My wife had a lot of health problems. She had kidney failure, had a kidney transplant that failed after 7 years, went back on dialysis and didn't want to live anymore. My wife died of heart failure when I was at the lowest point of my life. In the previous year I had a motorcycle accident, had kidney cancer and surgery for that, had a mini-stroke, my dad died, I found out I cancer in my mouth and neck and had surgery for that and was undergoing radiation treatment that made me so damn weak. I had lost about 80-90 pounds at that time, couldn't eat much or keep much down because of the radiation. My wife was sleeping in the spare bedroom and woke me up yelling that she couldn't get up. I called 911, went to the hospital where she had a massive heart attack that afternoon, her heart had stopped for over 13 minutes but the revived her. I had to make the decision whether to keep her on life support or let her die. The doctors said that she had significant brain damage as well as significant heart damage. She died a little after midnight that night.

If I hadn't started therapy when I did I never would have had the tools to deal with the grief, my own health problems, and everything else that was going on. After my wife died I decided that I didn't want to live out the rest of my life alone. I didn't want to put another woman through what my wife went through, I would accept my feelings and desire for another man.

A little over a year later I met the man and fell in love. My two girls were sceptical at first but soon realized that we were serious. Things haven't been easy but we got married last July in our home in California.

And that's where I'm at right now. I still have health problems as does my husband; I lost a job last November but I'm still going on.

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#279679 - 03/16/09 02:16 PM Re: Confusion as child from the abuse? [Re: nathan555]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 03:22 AM)
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