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#275807 - 02/18/09 11:23 AM MY LOSS
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
“What I was taught I did, what I did I learned, what I learned I became”

This is the idea that I had always understood to be the cause of my sexual identity issues. I have had countless discussions with friends, counselors, therapists, clergy and the like in regards to human sexuality, and they all seem to think “If your Gay your Gay and that you are just born that way”. I can’t tell you how nearly impossible it is to get a professional to listen to the argument “I am attracted to guys but I don’t feel Gay” Amazing how before we had the internet and all the resources we have available today I had always felt that my life was altered due to CSA. No one wants to hear that. I do believe this is due to our American view of sexuality which seems to be politically inspired for the most part. However I do find it interesting that with all the pro Gay bias coming from qualified professionals, and people who were generally concerned for my welfare, I continued to maintain my stance.

I was often told that it is social pressure to be straight that makes me feel this way, but as I grew older I knew that was not completely true, as I had always had interest in family, and would have loved to have children of my own. I often envy men and women that have family, and felt a deep sense of regret that I would never be able to fulfill this desire. I recognize this is a big part of the male experience that I will never come to know, and it brings me great sadness. I also acknowledge that there are different levels of maturation that occur when men become husbands and fathers. That in itself is a testimonial to the fact that I had potential in this life to be heterosexual, most gay men I have spoken to could care less about being a father and the added responsibilities it brings.

As I am ageing alone I have no idea what the future will bring but, even if I accept a Gay lifestyle I have no idea how to age as a gay man, it is a curse to be over 30 and gay, no one is interested in you and no one wants you. The whole Gay thing is still in it’s infancy and there are no real roles, or role models to follow.

In any event I suspect I will be single for the duration as this is how I have lived my life to this point, alone, and it is sad and pathetic, no one should have to live their life this way, it is so unfulfilling.

Thanks for listening.


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#275814 - 02/18/09 11:40 AM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 02:32 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#275816 - 02/18/09 11:44 AM Re: MY LOSS [Re: joelRT]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: joelRT
Originally Posted By: SIDUDE
As I am ageing alone I have no idea what the future will bring but, even if I accept a Gay lifestyle I have no idea how to age as a gay man, it is a curse to be over 30 and gay, no one is interested in you and no one wants you. The whole Gay thing is still in it’s infancy and there are no real roles, or role models to follow.


So, don't be Gay! And yeah it is that simple.

Many of don't identify as Gay - refuse the label and all that it implies.

Me? I'm just this guy who is into guys sexually. My sexuality being only ONE aspect of who I am.

I am not defined as person by what I do in bed. There is sooooo much more to me than that.

Rainbows are for leprechauns - me, I'm just Queer!


LOL, thanks for the tip, unfortunately my same sex attraction is habitual, I am only capable of anonymous sex, and that is a very unhealthy lifestyle, ever been to a sex party? That is the extent of my sex life, and i am not proud of it. Thanks for the reply.


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#275821 - 02/18/09 12:06 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i come from the opposite direction. i was scared straight, or so i thought, and got married and had 3 wonderful kids. [the ex-wife not so wonderful...hehehee] after 8 years of trying to make it work, it came to an end. alcoholism, shame etc, all the usual baggage one carries in flight, trying to avoid the past ramifications of sexual abuse, was there to deal with before i could make any significant progress in uncovering/recovering my true self.

but that was 25 years ago, and since then my experience has been that i tried the 'gay lifestyle' and totally transcended its shallow trappings, due to my gnawing need for substance. i learned to live down the belief that i was only worthy in terms of what my physical body could satisfy for others. i came to see that i was not the sexual object they made me.

once i got past the shame of being labeled 'gay' and i stopped live in fear and loathing of other oriented persons, i began to 'see' and find positive role models and rather than continue to organize my life around the wound of sexual abuse, i began to affiliate and study the people who i had loathed for so long. i found a community of people in my mcc church, which proved a home where i could connect with a family of people of did not see me as a guy with a dick, but just a spirit who had life to share with the community.

at some point i just realized i was not in 'kansas' anymore, and knew that finally there was a place for 'us'.

right now the universe is working out this sexual dissonance issue on the human plane in the psychological, emotional and spiritual lives of human beings. yes we are seeing more 'pro gay' attitudes, and we need that to affirm not so much that we are gay, but that we are NOT necessarily one or the other, as we were groomed to believe growing up. it puts us in a holding pattern where we can learn to be 'okay' with whoever we believe we are in the existential moment.

i know for myself that until i arrived in the place of no preference, i would always be tossed back and forth caught in the vibrational loop from one end of the polarity to the other.

many people will not struggle with sexual identity simply because it never becomes a question raised within them. once the question becomes a non-issue, once it becomes moot, then there is no longer any need to dedicate one's life to finding an answer, or to desperately seek validation.

so far that has been my experience.

also, here in this male survivor community we do have men who are 'blessedly' gay, and even our own M3 has an adopted son, so gays or bi people who want to raise a child are no longer prohibited.

and regarding my own 3 children, my son is straight and very accepting, and my two daughters got the gay gene and are in relationships with same sex partners. that is perhaps the sweetest revenge of all! LOL

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#275822 - 02/18/09 12:13 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: Sans Logos]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks for sharing that Sans


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#275823 - 02/18/09 12:34 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
My own personal opinion is that while society and politics tries to force us to take one side of the fence or the other, there is some room for commonality, and there may be some if not many people who share some characteristics of both communities. And then throw in sexual victimization as a child with taking a developmental path progressively away from that of our unafflicted peers, and some survivors end-up confused or torn, embracing some of both extremes. This confusion sometimes leads survivors to seek revictimization-type of relationships, or it causes others to act-out inwardly manifest in various forms of self-inflicted injury. But there is no overwhelming proof that anyone is condemned to stay this way once the injury/abuse is inflicted.

I was single until 4 months before my 30th birthday, with only a few unsuccessful short or one-night hetero relationships, and a year-long consensual gay revictimization-type of relationship with another same-age adult survivor in my early 20s. Was I straight or gay? Some sociology professionals have noted an increased frequency of homosexual experimentation among males in late adolescence and early adulthood. Could confusion caused by the unresolved effects of CSA combined with the alternate growth path experienced by survivors cause this period of early sexual experimentation to continue beyond the point where it normally ceases in the unafflicted population?

My first hetero relationship of any length came about when a good friend's recent former girlfriend threw herself at me. I was living alone and had known her for 4 years, and she was out of her boyfriend's house living on some friend's couch. She initiated a sexual relationship the first night after a long night at the bar, then instead of it ending the next morning, the relationship continued through 3 & 1/2 rocky years, the beginning of which coincided with my first attempt at therapy for my CSA and other childhood abuse issues. It was the best of times, and it was the worst of times. And when it ended right off of the deep end I went into a deep, drug-induced depression. My only coping skill through that point was to get wasted enough to try to forget.

Fast forward 6 years, and I am realizing the worst effects of unresolved CSA combined with the continuing effects of my only coping strategy. After several unsuccessful attempts by and with desperate crack cocaine-addicted women, I finally end-up living with another crack addict and her kids on & off for almost a year. She likes to be sexually abused when she is high on crack. Otherwise we do not have sex. She has 2 kids by 2 different husbands, both of whom are behind on child support. My world collapses when I test positive for cocaine in a drug test and lose my job. This starts a four year period of recovery with 3 stints in in-patient substance-abuse treatment, 3 more in out-patient substance-abuse recovery, 5 different CSA therapists in 4 years, and participation in 4 different in-person CSA support groups. I left the last group in May of 2000, my goals substantially accomplished.

Three years later I am 3 years beyond my last in-person recovery group, and I am introduced to a recent divorcee with 2 kids. We hit it off at a pool party and our first date was to Laguna Beach with her kids. I was still fearful of rejection, and still hamstrung by a lack of confidence. My self-esteem had improved immensely since the depths of despair 7 years earlier though, and I consciously worked very hard to put my doubts and fears behind me. We seemed happy, but there were some odd problems, and our relationship ended with her allowing her ex-husband to move back in. Still this relationship lasted two years, and it was a great learning experience. Instead of collapsing into depression again, I signed-up for a Match.com account, and after a bit over a year of dating women that I had met on the internet, I finally met the woman that has become my 2nd wife, 2 years and 8 months ago. I'm still not 100%, but I am happily married, and feel that I have a partner to enjoy our later years together with.

I always wanted children too, but I am now in my 50s. Over time I have acted as an "uncle" to several of my friend's kids and my sister's kids, and I have enjoyed a number of close, nurturing relationships as they have grown into their late teenage years and early adulthood now. And my wife and I have talked about the possibility of adopting one or two older kids too, and that may yet happen. So I wouldn't short-change yourself with the assumption that you will die single and childless. There is the possibility of changing the known future through recovery and enjoying the kind of family relationship that until has seemed impossible to attain.

Keep coming back, and keep trying. Your future is yet unwritten.

Have hope,

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#275880 - 02/18/09 06:14 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: Trucker51]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks Mark, for your reply, wow that is some story, mine is a bit boring, I sat in a basement by myself and did cocaine, I did have women approach me over the years, however I would never indicate any contact. Always felt I needed to level with a woman first because it is not fair to the woman, so many CSA type men will engage in relationships with women, and at some point they disclose their past. I am not judging anyone because I certainly understand and feel the need to be a socially acceptable well adjusted man. However every journey needs to start in truth or your destine to hit some rough times that may affect everyone’s life around you. On the other side of that it really is not appropriate to disclose the sensitive nature of CSA to a woman on the first date before you have had a chance to consummate the relationship and feelings begin to evolve. It is a difficult choice to have to make. My hats off to you have made significant strides in your recovery it seems. Be well and Peace.


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#275963 - 02/19/09 12:52 AM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I have lots of practice telling my story over many years. It would have been impossible for me to tell my story in this manner even halfway to this point in my recovery. Yes, initiating with women takes learning a lot in recovery and it takes dealing with your shame. It takes learning better, more-positive coping strategies and disposing of negative and self-destructive methods. When you deal with your shame your self-esteem will improve, and then you have to be willing to try to take a few chances, and then build on any successes. As you begin to enjoy some success, you will begin to build your self-confidence, and learning to reach out to a potential intimate partner for me was a culmination of what had come to that point. And there was still some more learning involved to get to the point where I am at now, and every day I learn more, often through trial and error. I have been to the point for several years now where I don't look back and my past does not affect my future decisions.

You can get there too, my man. It is never too late.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#276024 - 02/19/09 12:28 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: Trucker51]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Sidude,

They are advantages to being alone.
You don't have to deal with angry and unforgiving spouses or partners. To having to be beaten by your past which you did not choose to have inflicted on you. By those who supposely love you.
There are always positives in any given situation if you choose to look for them.

Mike



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#276055 - 02/19/09 03:23 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2452
Loc: TEXAS
SIDUDE, greetings my fraternal brother.

Take it from this (almost) 70yr old boy. I was married, (will be officially seperated) by distance and emotions, (or lack there of).
I am/was a father to 2 boys, i am a grandfather to 2 grandsons. I would have been married for 36 yrs (this April).
My SECRET that was buried for 55+ yrs came to the surface last August. If you have read my post little Pete & big Pete's 69 yr journey, you will see that i probably should never have been married, as i surely lacked the emotional and social skills in dealing with girls/females. I never had any none-zero emotions towards girls/females.
BUT i in all my young and adult years have had tons of emotions for males, both sexually & non sexually.
Again reading my posts, i've made no bones about saying that all my emotional and sexual feelings have been from males and before my 18th birthday. No female has given me the same sexual nor emotional feeling.
So between what has come to the surface from the depths of my soul is that perhaps for all the years before all this surfaced, that i was gay but that it was buried just under my concious level.
But now i can say in all honesty from the depths of my soul that i am gay. As before last August i really didn't know me, until now.
But whatever you are, I will be your brother/friend in healing. I will like you for just being YOU, in wichever sexual orientation that you choose.
I will be alone, but it will cost me my serenity that i receive from my 2 grandsons, i will loose my only physical source of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. It will be MY LOSS.

Take care SIDUDE, heal well, my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#276075 - 02/19/09 04:36 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: petercorbett]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: petercorbett
SIDUDE, greetings my fraternal brother.

Take it from this (almost) 70yr old boy. I was married, (will be officially seperated) by distance and emotions, (or lack there of).
I am/was a father to 2 boys, i am a grandfather to 2 grandsons. I would have been married for 36 yrs (this April).
My SECRET that was buried for 55+ yrs came to the surface last August. If you have read my post little Pete & big Pete's 69 yr journey, you will see that i probably should never have been married, as i surely lacked the emotional and social skills in dealing with girls/females. I never had any none-zero emotions towards girls/females.
BUT i in all my young and adult years have had tons of emotions for males, both sexually & non sexually.
Again reading my posts, i've made no bones about saying that all my emotional and sexual feelings have been from males and before my 18th birthday. No female has given me the same sexual nor emotional feeling.
So between what has come to the surface from the depths of my soul is that perhaps for all the years before all this surfaced, that i was gay but that it was buried just under my concious level.
But now i can say in all honesty from the depths of my soul that i am gay. As before last August i really didn't know me, until now.
But whatever you are, I will be your brother/friend in healing. I will like you for just being YOU, in wichever sexual orientation that you choose.
I will be alone, but it will cost me my serenity that i receive from my 2 grandsons, i will loose my only physical source of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. It will be MY LOSS.

Take care SIDUDE, heal well, my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)



Pete,

Thanks for the reply and sharing that with me, I understand that these situations are complicated. I suspect I am much closer to being Gay as my attraction toward men has been fostered since childhood, and I never had a chance to choose for myself what sexual orientation I'd prefer. Unfortunately I cannot turn back the hands of time to see what my life would have been like if things were right.

The fact is I came from an upper middle class home which was seriously dysfunctional has impacted every area of my life, I was physically abused by my older sister who was quite cruel to me, and my parents marriage was seriously compromised by their infidelity towards on another. Although I love my Mother, I can’t tell you how I felt when I woke up one evening at the age of 6 and saw my Mother in our basement with another man, my fathers second cousin no less. My heart was broken in a fundamental way that I think affected my views on Women and Marriage. My older cousin started to molest me when I was 4, and I had severe learning disabilities when I entered school, I am still challenged when it comes to learning to this day.

My father was never supportive and he frequently belittled me in front of the rest of the family thinking that it would force me to change. I will forever remember my father saying to my mother “Joyce what’s wrong with this kid, he is always in the house, you better send him to the doctor” I have been in therapy since I was 12 for my learning \ anti social behavior. Can you really blame me, seems that people around me were more screwed up than me!

With all the toxic behavior and problems I faced destroyed my childhood, and my adult life is no better, things just seem to get worse as time goes on. It all seems so unfair, everybody else has a life but me, and no one cares, and neither do I. I fought as long and hard as I could and I am still kicking, but my future looks bleak. I agree it was probably best that I did not get married it would have been a disaster, and I am sure my skills as a father would not have been good, and children deserve the best upbringing one can provide.

I fell for you in your situation, but it sounds to me that you are sure in your path and you have the strength to deal with your reality, I wish I could say the same. Be Well and Peace.


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#276152 - 02/19/09 10:02 PM Re: MY LOSS [Re: SIDUDE]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
SIDUDE,

I completely understand. I do think I was "born gay." I was effeminate. I played with Barbies. I had a childlike, platonic crush on my brother's best friend. But the sexual abuse completely devastated my sexuality. While it was happening, I developed an obsessive crush on a female classmate. How can you explain that? I fantasized constantly, at eight, nine and ten, of kissing her, of making her love me. I had a crush on my female teacher which was almost as strong. I had never liked girls before that I can remember, certainly not in such an overwhelming way. Literally, rape made me straight.

I get frustrated with the attitudes of some gay men. Sexually, my body is drawn to men. They don't understand how I could want to be with a women. I've accepted that they just have a different mentality. For them, it was so liberating to come out, to acknowledge the feelings they had been suppressing their entire life. "Coming out" for me was much darker, sadder and more unsettling. I slept with men only to discover that sex would always mean rape to me. Unlike you, I don't indulge in anonymous sex. I don't have any, to avoid the pain. It's probably just as unhealthy.

I also long to be a father. The thought of having a wife and children one day makes me smile. In fact, it's the only way I can see myself being truly happy. I want to mature. I want to have the experience of taking care of a child, protecting him, or her, devoting my life to something meaningful. I can develop strong emotions for both men and women. But with men, there's so much baggage. I end up resenting them and feeling demeaned. My feelings for men always sour. It's not their fault. It's mine. If I were a woman, I'd be a man-hating feminist.

Don't be ashamed of your confusion. Don't be deterred by the opinions of others who, while genuinely trying to help you, haven't lived your life. Sexual abuse warps your sexuality. Common wisdom no longer applies.

Though our situations are different, I empathize with you and hope you find a lifestyle which makes you happy. Believing that your future is bleak won't do you any good. Keep fighting. Keep soul-searching. Let go of your regret. The future is what you make of it.


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