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#275092 - 02/13/09 12:18 PM prop h8 contributors dishonor roll
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
for those who are wondering who contributed financially you can check out the dishonor roll here.

i was truly amazed, though not surprised, to find out that 'focus on the family' donated over .5 million dollars, just days before announcing on 11/17 that it planned to cut 20% of its work force. more on the story here.

my mind remains boggled. yea, the evangelical right is the model for christian values. let's take our moral cues from them follow their lead, and like them, sacrifice people for 'principles' and not even flinch. this group of people are not the sanctimonious pro-life zealots they profess to be, rather they are pro-birth. let's call them out of their hiding place from behind the iron curtain of moral vituperation.

anyway thought some of you may find the topic interesting or thought provoking or both,

ron



Edited by Sans Logos (02/13/09 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: fil9gers not wa83hking today
_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#275099 - 02/13/09 01:19 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Sans Logos]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Ron,

No matter what you may think of James Dobson and his merrymen of do gooders they put their money where there mouth is. You have to give it to them their view maybe very narrow and short sighted but it is extremely focused. I bet everyone of those who had to give up there jobs have no regrets for how that 5 million dollars were spent.
As much as you may not agree with their ideals you have to admire their dedication and zeal for their cause.

Ok, now I'll go and take cover. In case there is a missle attack
launched in my direction.

Just telling it like I see it.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#275104 - 02/13/09 02:18 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: michael banks]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
mike, no canned tomatos coming your way from me.

i actually agree with much of what you said, except for a couple things; one, i don't admire their dedication and zeal. i think they are rather inane for burning good money to stoke the fire that is heating the crucible of debate in a battle that will not be won. two: i doubt those jobless people who are looking at the prospect of losing everything are applauding from the welfare lines, but more probably scratching their heads as they realized their corporate white shirts are still wearing shirts and that it cost the corporation nothing as it sacrificed its employees on the altar of moral principle.

dipping into their coffers, and donating out of their stock, they have wasted resources unnecessarily, which could have been put to much better use. they have not practiced one of the most challenging conundrums of their own faith: the story of the widow's mite. these hypocrites pick and choose their pet projects to serve their own self-edification and advance certainty of their own socio-economic survival and moralistic agenda.

the world is unfolding as it must, and they can keep on throwing cash on the flames. they may win the battle, they will not win the war.

'i says he will begin something new....it's beginning already...haven't you heard???'

it is great to be living today to witness such a fascinating and incredible century.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#275114 - 02/13/09 03:22 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Sans Logos]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Ron,

Do you not know thy own enemy. If you do not undersand who they really are how can you overcome them.
They believe to die is Christ. Does not Christ tell his followers that they too will be persecuted just as he was in his day. That their home and teasures are in heaven. That this world is but a fleeting, temporary and evil place. To die is to be in the present of God.

Evangelicals are hardcore christians that will never stop trying to influence everybody to their view of Christ and his teachings as they believe it is reveal in the bible. You can feed them to the lions as they did in the days of Rome. But they will not stop. Come hell or high water.
And the war will never be over till Christs 2nd coming.

AS you,I believe and hope that all people will have the same rights and priviledges in the not distant future.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#275115 - 02/13/09 03:37 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: michael banks]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

how'd I know it you we you 2 discussing this like the loving brothers that you are. :-)

My $0.02 is to state that in my understanding Joshua ben Josef (aka The Christ) was the Prophet who brought a message of forgiveness to the people.

I was struck by the list of contributors supporting judgment and hate... I is a sad reflection that the prophet's message, as carried by his disciple "Dr. Luke" has not been universally heeded, that being "Love on another". I pray that this message of hope continues to spread. Being a child of hate and intolerance and being freed of it I know at a personal level that message is spreading.

I pray for the forgiveness I need for the people on that list and I pray that they receive the core messages of the prophet they so ardently profess to be following.

Love you guys, Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#275141 - 02/13/09 07:14 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: wes-b]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
I saw the best bumper sticker today it says... "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity." In my mind individuals and organizations that supported prop 8 are doing the same thing, they are fucking for virginity!

The Dalai Lama was once asked his opinion of gay marriage. He said something to the effect of "if two people love each other, why should we try to prevent them from marrying." I know that's not exactly how it was worded, but something like that.
allen


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#275146 - 02/13/09 07:37 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: wes-b]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Some of those right-wing politico's and far-right evangelicals are not terribly unlike the kamikaze's of late WWII. Those of us who live by the principles of freedom and equality for all regardless of....are outraged by this kind of allegedly-moral behavior on the part of your opposition. Yet like Michael says, many of those "victims" would be happy to give what they have to achieve their organization's greater goal. That is one thing that many of us who stand for equality and equal justice for all find questionable and offensive.

Their sacrificial quest is not limited to harming your cause either. They basically would very much like a return to the nice white morals-driven society of Leave it to Beaver's days, with a strict adherence to their narrow principles. Anyone who opposes them is regarded as heathen to be smitten. It almost reminds me of the tightly-controlled underground really white society in the 1970s movie "A Boy and His Dog", where there was no room for dissent or opposing viewpoints.

We still love ya' Ron. You need someone to stand with you I'm always around.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#275181 - 02/13/09 10:30 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Trucker51]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I don't know. I used to think that the good Dr. Dobson was right in his approach. That certainly began to change over the years, Then one day I was sitting in my T's outer office awaiting an appointment and picked up a magazine someone had left there called... Hell, I forgot what it's called but anyhow, it is a publication by the political wing of the Focus on the Family organization.

Within it there was a small little blurb about how the Christian Right was celebrating the fact that due to the new stadium being built in DC to house the Washington Nationals baseball team, part of the gay district of town would be torn down. The article went on to describe how it wasn't much loss because all that was there were a bunch of guys in drag prancing around on a stage singing "Dancing Queen".

That, more than any one thing I can think of tipped the balance for me. Any supposedly religious organization who claims to be representatives of Christ, yet places such a low estimation of value on their fellow man, and stoops to the point of derision to make their point, cannot possibly be right. Plain and simple. The good Doc can take a flying leap and take his willful ignorance and his organization along with him. He may do some good things in certain areas but it is far outweighed in my mind by the evil radiating from this and other areas of his "focus".

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#275199 - 02/14/09 03:53 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: WalkingSouth]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2433
Loc: TEXAS
Hi Guys.
My 2 euro cents worth.

Now you can see just why I still believe in my post Trusting God No Longer, I probably should go back and up date it to include HIS clergy, what ever religious preference.

The Dali Lama, sure hits it right. He and his religion is something that even i could follow. His messages are always powerful. Plus a couple of billion Chinese are afraid of him. So he must be doing something right.

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#275214 - 02/14/09 09:37 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: petercorbett]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I have written about this on another thread, and no one liked my answers. In short, I stipulated that the State has no business monopolizing the definition of marriage, nor giving special privileges to people who choose to marry. There are many moral hazards that inevitably arise when we allow the state to decide what "marriage" is. For instance, hospital visitation rights can be contorted and mis-applied out of fear of reprisal in the heavily regulated medical industry. This is just one example.

You think YOU are being discriminated against? What about us single people who never find someone?

I'm outraged to think that after I die, after paying into Social Security for my whole working life, that all the money I paid into this system goes back into the pool. Oh, but if I find someone I like having sex with and sleeping and living with, oh, THAT partner then gets a check for the rest of her/his life. What a bunch of shit.

Then there is the tax code, which I won't get into. My point is that I (respectfully) find your (and others) rants about gay marriage to be quite silly. You fail to look at the true evil going on, and that is the State Monopolizing of the definition of marriage. Why not let the state make decisions about your life based on what religion you practice? Think about it. That would be pretty scary, wouldn't it?

You wanted to give the politicians the power to decide such matters, and now you don't like the consequences, well, MAYBE you voters should be a little more selective on who's representing you.


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#275231 - 02/14/09 01:20 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
um....not sure exactly who your commentary was directed towards alan; i am not entirely convinced that you actually read the original post. your response felt more like a reaction to something triggered in you, than anything i wrote. at any rate, a couple of things come to mind:

the original post was not made to 'rant' against those who would defeat gay marriage. yes, i would like to see equal class citizenship for all people, but....

i made this post to report on and rail against the large corporations and institutions, the powerful and the wealthy who believe they own this country, any thing, or idea, or person, and that any of those aforementioned can be bought or sold. so i am not clear about how that ties into your point

Quote:
My point is that I (respectfully) find your (and others) rants about gay marriage to be quite silly

i don't see a rant about gay marriage here.

and btw: ouch!

we do have men on in this webcommunity who are in fact married, so such a statement seems a bit insensitive. the very substance of their lives deepest concerns silly?

and: ouch#2!
Quote:
You think YOU are being discriminated against? What about us single people

well, i know that gays are discriminated against legally [over 1100 federal rights denied us, but that's neither here nor there, keep reading for my initial motivation for grinding this particular axe*] i never think it a good idea to say one persons pain hurts more than anothers. how could that be measured or verified?

ouch #3
Quote:
You fail to look at the true evil going on

*"Statistics on suicide are grim. Approximately 32,000 people commit suicide each year in the U.S., and suicide is the second-leading cause of death among college students. When it comes to the subject of LGBT youth and suicide, the statistics are even darker: LGBT and questioning youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers; LGBT youth who come from a rejecting family are up to nine times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers."

children in unnecessary pain is the true evil. children as victims of a flawed political system, pawns of the mighty corporations and individuals who will stomp on anything that gets in the way of their insatiable greed for more, is true evil. these same power mongers using their resources to force a particular point of view that smothers people's lives from the inside out, true evil.

just wanted to make that clarification, even if only for my own benefit. *shrug*

back to pondering.......

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#275249 - 02/14/09 02:59 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
I have written about this on another thread, and no one liked my answers. In short, I stipulated that the State has no business monopolizing the definition of marriage, nor giving special privileges to people who choose to marry. There are many moral hazards that inevitably arise when we allow the state to decide what "marriage" is. For instance, hospital visitation rights can be contorted and mis-applied out of fear of reprisal in the heavily regulated medical industry. This is just one example.

You think YOU are being discriminated against? What about us single people who never find someone?

I'm outraged to think that after I die, after paying into Social Security for my whole working life, that all the money I paid into this system goes back into the pool. Oh, but if I find someone I like having sex with and sleeping and living with, oh, THAT partner then gets a check for the rest of her/his life. What a bunch of shit.

Then there is the tax code, which I won't get into. My point is that I (respectfully) find your (and others) rants about gay marriage to be quite silly. You fail to look at the true evil going on, and that is the State Monopolizing of the definition of marriage. Why not let the state make decisions about your life based on what religion you practice? Think about it. That would be pretty scary, wouldn't it?


For once, Hauser, I think I agree with you 100%. I believe that government (federal, state, and local) recognition of marriage and the things it comes with (such as tax and death benefits, which single people are ineligible for, etc) is wrong. I consider it a violation of church/state separation that favors some religions at the expense and detriment of others, which is morally wrong, and I daresay unconstitutional.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#275258 - 02/14/09 07:02 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Of course I read it Ron.

I had previously discussed this on another thread. http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...4562#Post224562

When you give politicians power, they will, given enough time, abuse it. This is why we should want to only give them small, LIMITED powers. If they weren't allowed to define marriage in the first place, all of this would be a moot point.


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#275260 - 02/14/09 07:30 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Quote:
If they weren't allowed to define marriage in the first place, all of this would be a moot point.

Well said Alan. My opinion is this: Marriage is a dying institution so this debate is pretty much mute anyways.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29192327/

Mike


_________________________
My Story

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#275682 - 02/17/09 04:15 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Barkabus]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Mike,

It maybe dead for you but not most of the other people on the planet. it is one of the hottest topics in our country.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#275746 - 02/18/09 12:00 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: michael banks]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Here's my $0.02 worth.

I married my partner out here in CA in July because we've been together for four years and we love each other. We wanted the commitment of marriage, along with all of the benefits and responsibilities that it entails. Domestic partnerships have some of the benefits and all of the responsibilities and can be dissolved with a minimum of effort. That is not what we wanted.

When Prop 8 was passed we were devastated but we are continuing to fight for our right to stay married. The issue is going before the CA Supreme Court next month and there should be a ruling in May at the latest. We supported the 'No on 8' campaign locally and statewide. When the list of donors, both for and against, was made available I went online and found out who I would not be giving my business to and who I would support locally. There were a lot of protests from supporters of Prop 8 that were boycotted; they felt that they were being singled out for scorn. Well, welcome to our world! Gay and lesbian people are routinely singled out all the time for their particular scorn and ridicule. I feel no sympathy for them at all. One of the best ways to show your feelings is to withdraw your financial support for businesses and people that are trying to harm you and the ones that you love.

My husband and I are married and we always will be; no matter what happens in the CA Supreme Court. We love each other.

Take good care of yourself my friends,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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