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#273954 - 02/04/09 11:32 AM God's love?
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I'm not the extremely professed because probably no part of me shows it but I'd say I'm Christian, by all the technicalities I am anyway. Sins covered.... Jesus died..... heaven/hell... Bible thumping..... but there's nothing really to tell me that God loves me with the tormented existance I've been given.

No study has ever showed me that God loves me. I know I'm going to get the text book answers or the judgement that I was never "saved" properly or the forgiveness/bitterness something like that. Please don't, it don't help it just makes it hurt more.

I'm in so much pain, everything "normal" is denied to me. My body's continually destroyed, I'm not insane but it calms others for them to think that I am. Most everything carries no reasoning. I don't care about heaven or hell like I did when I was first "saved". If God hates me He'll do whatever He wants with me when I die. I'd sell my soul to have peace.... what christian would do that? I don't understand how nomatter what, I am the evil that I was taught. I don't even have to do anything bad it's just what I seem to be.

I'd accept my punishment if I only knew what I did wrong. So how does God love me?

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#273965 - 02/04/09 01:39 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
Highlanderhog Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
Hello, I understand your pain and confusion (hope I worded that right) when I first started a 12 step program 11 years ago I had a punishing God ( don't know if that's what I was taught but that is what I heard-FEAR GOD !)and I tried to pray to that and it just didn't give me any relief so I had to create my own concept of a God or higher power if you will. An old timer came up to me and suggested that I read a book that allowed me to understand/find/accept/etc... a loving, non judging God because the old one was not working, all my experiances in life proved to me that he didn't love me or anybody else. I am so sick of hearing" it's god's will, or he will make everything alright" i know they mean well and if it works for them great. The book was "Sermon on the Mount by Emmet Fox". It allowed me to be free of organized religion ( if I choose ) with out knowing doing so would send me to hell. Now I am Spiritual and use spiritual tools for living and my higher power is my friend but totally different from the one I was brought up to fear, besides I had nothing to lose. I hope I am not out of line but that is my 2 cents worth. Hang in there man

_________________________
Please just use HLH instead of HighlanderHog!
I have lived the saying " religion is for people afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." But, I am happy for anyone who has a Higher power that works for them no matter where they find it.

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#274004 - 02/04/09 10:32 PM Re: God's love? [Re: Highlanderhog]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Guys, could I share that when memories of my csa flooded out what came to my mind that prior to csa I had seen the love of God in my Grandmother. After I recalled how precious it was for this hurt and wounded little boy to sing "Jesus loves me, this I know" All I know is but for Jesus love I'd be dead at my own hand. or an alcoholic.
Jesus Himself criticised the organised religon of His day. It could be said He disorganised religon.

I am a Christian survivor. Breaking free from the religous cliche's. Sure when I as an adult sin I'll cop it sweat with repentance for my wrong actions. I'm up for that.
But I won't let any religous functionary put shit on me
because I was abused. I did not ask for it. I did not want an instrusion into my life. I renounce it and disown it.
but I have nothing to repent of. Bitter? well my wound has puss
so let's clean it out. Forgive ? it can release me

We are not bad or evil because we were abused.

I recomend reading what Jesus said and who He showed kindness to-
I suggest He showed kindness and mercy to the abused
and the rebuke was for the perps

It puts a whole new perspective on life.

"Snakes and vipers" = the abusers

hypocrites = fake religious leaders lacking compassion

"sinners" = the people He hung out with

He helped me maybe He can help you.
I hope so
too many hurting, in pain desperate for relief.

Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#274016 - 02/05/09 12:02 AM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
I just have this belief that we have been given the lives that we have.

I can in no way imagine your own pain , only mine.

I went to God because I was tired of handling things on my own. I wanted him to carry my burden.

I feel that we are each given what is to be our lives, we then are to do the best with what we have be given,
disability,
poverty,
gender identity ,
csa,ect...
I am to make the best of what I have.
I am to find the part inside of me that needs to be the best I can be.
I have felt many of the things you say here.
I have trusted my beliefs and have faith that I will one day be free of my own painfilled prison...
Our reward is not here, is not of the flesh...
we do not live here merely exist till the time that we graduate from this life...
Corney???
Its what I have and its what has kept me from putting a gun in my own mouth ( I am not suicidal )
I am new man ...
I have been set free
Bless you ...nomanisanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#274044 - 02/05/09 09:12 AM Re: God's love? [Re: nomansanisland]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
not corny....by no stretch of the imagination, at least not in my book. i take your words at face value, and see a deeply spiritual person who has surrendered to the crucible of living the 10th be-attitude: blessed are they who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed.

now for some that may seem shallow, but in the land of 'less is more' i value the portability that i have been gifted as a result of yielding to the power that cleanses and formulates me anew each and every day.

thanks for the peek into the mirror of your soul noman,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#274067 - 02/05/09 12:35 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
faller2 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 14
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: usmc97
but there's nothing really to tell me that God loves me with the tormented existance I've been given.


usmc97---From one brother in Jesus to another, it has helped me to know that Jesus has suffered more than we'll ever perceive. The fact that he suffered 3 hours for crimes he did not commit, should tell you that God does love you with the "tormented existence [you've] been given," that we've all been given. I share your pain, as do we all here at MS. I'm definitely not saying that we deserved to be SA! Just that you should never doubt God's love for you. If He didn't love us, His time on earth would have been for naught.

Be Blessed! Be Strong! Be Brave! Fight every day until it's as easy as breathing. Yours in Jesus!

P.S. Don't compare yourself to Christians who 'appear' to be great Christians. It's what's in our hearts, as I'm sure you know. You're a great Christian because of the hope you hold in Jesus. Your hope in spite of your circumstances is a true testimony to His Saving power, His ever loving presence, and His life in you. You're a new man, clothed with a robe of righteousness! That's why He loves you, you're His son!


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#274068 - 02/05/09 01:35 PM Re: God's love? [Re: Sans Logos]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
wow, thanks for putting that into perspective for me.

I feel if we have nothing left , then we alaways have the sun that rises, and the continuence of the day.

Life does not stop when you lose a loved one, or when someone takes away your childhood by abusing their authority.

Everyday is pain for people in Johannasburg SA,

I venture to guess they find happiness and God in the little things.
I chose to open my heart to christ,

I chose to move on,
I chose to find someone to share my minds wanderings ...

There's too many resons to see the bad in everything that happens to us.

I cannot believe that God made a mistake when he made me.

The void in me has done evil things,

I am

and will forever work on filling the void with God...

Only God knows a mans heart...

Just trust in his power to help you heal ...

I am no Pollyanna, I have the scars to prove it...you do to!

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#274078 - 02/05/09 02:50 PM Re: God's love? [Re: nomansanisland]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
How can I not compare what I went through or what I go through now with the suffering of Jesus? Because He's more innocent? He's God? Just a couple of the things that make it less meaningful to what He went through. It doesn't show how God loves me.It just doesn't come across as some great inspirational thing to hear about Him.

One day the head pastor at my church was trying to explain and give visualization of how degrading it was to just being spit upon. Something about that if that was bad to imagine all the other hurts He went through for the sake of everybody. It just made me so angry, like I'm getting told how deminished my life should be. How worthless I am in the sight of God and everybody else for that matter. What about all that was and is done to me?

Jesus never went through what I went through as a kid, He was loved and taken care of.... so who really hurt Him as a kid? I'm not supposed to see him as privelaged? Jesus went through what He did during a short period of His life on earth only as an adult and then He got to die. Solves the problem of sin but it doesn't say anything about love to me. Might sound real bad but that's how it is to me even if I want His purpose to mean more. I was killed multiple times, they reserected me to be hurt more and more. Jesus suffered more just because He was perfect?

He didn't have everything that was done to Him done continually but I'm supposed to cower at His experience. I went through all of this as a kid to turn around just to have it all done again worse? I've been repeatedly getting tortured and mutilated for years as an adult and hardly anyone cares about me. How am I supposed to think that God loves me through all of that?

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274087 - 02/05/09 05:23 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
1love4christ Offline


Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 46
Loc: ca, usa
hello brothers in christ,

I just want to add how much i relate to everything that is being said here. I have learned from my experience, that getting support and education for the issue of sexual abuse is very powerful. for instance, i'm about to finish reading my second book on sexual abuse and i've learned so much to not be alarmed by the traumas or personality defects we all live with. it has helped me see the light of jesus christ who is our savior. it is a tough question to compare whose pain has been worse in this life for we all can say we have been hit extremely hard in life!

I believe in jesus christ not only as my savior but lord, king, god in the flesh, and almighty one to rule this earth and heaven. I don't view the comparison of abuse because i believe everyone has been sadfully scarred for life. even people who do not go through sexual abuse may suffer traumas just as bad. from my experience, not having supporters or friends to understand in itself can cause people to be in the dark and feel very alone in life.

i've searched and found, yet continue to find people i can feel very safe with. however, i've also gain wisdom that i'm coming to broken people who have little knowledge of sexual abuse and may come off insensitive due to their lack of education. I have been strong enough to inform others how complicated sexual abuse when it comes to forgiveness and restoration of the relationship with the abuser. i mention this because i was abused by my brother and i can say that i've forgiven him right after it happened but demanded boundaries and time to cope with it. he didn't respond well to my boundaries and patience for me to cope with it, so i've kept my distance. i've learned through jesus christ, that forgiveness is always possible, but restoring a relationship takes two people.

i do not have a problem with jesus christ. i believe and accept everything he says and try each day to follow him. its not easy of course but i focus on jesus each day to carry me through my days. i do not worry so much any more about what a christian looks like or what a christian acts like. i just know that i love jesus and try to follow him each day acknowledging his principles and keys to being with jesus christ.

for everyone, i really advise people to shed light on their issue by getting education about sexual abuse. this will strongly help you understand yourself and what you battle with. reading the word of god is very helpful because you will personally see who jesus christ and god are together which is love.

the most important tool for me has been accepting my feelings and expressing them. i speak especially about sexual abuse and do it with calmness. i really hope that others can talk about their abuse to others when they are already for i really hope that others can get informed how people are hurting each day.

god bless

_________________________
nestor

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#274092 - 02/05/09 06:41 PM Re: God's love? [Re: 1love4christ]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
It's like no one's understanding me.

I don't know what I say that makes it so hard.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274122 - 02/05/09 10:59 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
usmc97,

I can't speak for the others but even tho I may not totally understand your experience that brought you to where you are not as far as this issue is concerned, I do hear you loud and clear. You're asking questions that are very valid for yourself and for others who are probably out there silently agreeing with them and wondering the same things.

The honest seeker of enlightenment will receive the answer he's seeking. Don't ever quit asking the questions, Friend.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#274148 - 02/06/09 08:20 AM Re: God's love? [Re: WalkingSouth]
faller2 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 14
Loc: New Jersey
usmc,

I do understand where you're coming from. (not where you're coming from, like walkingsouth, but in terms of the doubt) I don't often say this, but in your case, I do. There's nothing anyone can say to prove God's love to you. I get just as pissed when I hear a pastor say things that do not represent Jesus, e.g., "Those of you who have been sexually abused, get over it." That was probably one of the worst, and you may or may not have heard that before. It seems like you haven't let go of your pain and anger, righteous anger and valid pain! But even though your pain and anger are truly appropriate and necessary, it will not be vindicated by questioning, but perhaps exacerbated. Though never stop seeking and asking! I have found that little or none of my congregation seems capable of understanding where I come from. That being said, I have stopped looking to my pastor for 'guidance' and 'mentoring.' Christians who have been sexually abused are in a paradoxical situation; we are forced to become our own pastors, teachers, mentors, lobbyists, and spokespersons within the faith. Even though it may not feel like it, there are brothers and sisters who understand you, know your pain.



Edited by faller2 (02/06/09 08:23 AM)

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#274350 - 02/07/09 01:43 PM Re: God's love? [Re: faller2]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't like this "pain and anger" inclusion, especially as something to let go when I don't relate in the first place. That carries over to the trailing thoughts of being in denial or something. ANGER IS JUST NOT THERE WHEN IT COMES TO ME, at least not in the sense that it comes across. Pain for you guys seems to come down to a metaphor and I don't really grasp that, neither do I understand why things are always recognized from the aspect of anger.

My talking about most anything I have to go through seems non-existant and I keep getting put into this box of what is supposed to be a "survivor". I don't claim that title for many reasons. I don't fit the mold that the spectrum of a survivor is, number one being that what happens to me hasn't stopped yet.

God is supposed to love me and I don't understand why He would not show that He does. The things that are done to me go against everything known about Him.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274403 - 02/08/09 02:04 AM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
faller2 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 14
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: usmc97
I don't fit the mold that the spectrum of a survivor is, number one being that what happens to me hasn't stopped yet.
i was commenting on your situation as if you were in recovery...if you're still being abused then you must get help to stop it. if you're speaking of your 'situation' as being PTSD symptoms, then you need to consider medication and/or therapy to begin your healing. you will one day feel angry if you continue to heal and see the injustice of your circumstances. I know what you're talking about, there was a long time when I didn't feel anger, the pain is more emotional for me i guess. also, putting you into a box was the last thing i wanted to do, i'm sorry you see it that way. you're also confused about your doctrine. I have asked the same identical questions that you have asked, the answers are in the word if you're willing to seek them out.

being that God does show His love for us, you're probably just missing it! He does not show love the way we 'think' He should show it, His love is perfect, not human. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean His love is not there. Don't box God in laugh

You also know (being a Christian) that this is a broken world we live in. God allows pain, abuse, murder, injustice, etc. to exist as a reflection of how far we have fallen from grace (Genesis CH3). God does not cause evil, though He allows it to exist.

These are fantastic questions you are asking. The fact that you're questioning and persisting with the faith without denying it is a great sign of your strength brother! i commend you on your bravery and encourage you to further articulate what stands between you and a stronger relationship with the Lord.


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#274446 - 02/08/09 01:19 PM Re: God's love? [Re: faller2]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
There is no help to get away from what is done to me. I know just about anytime I try to write I come off as a lunatic. You just don't get it, I didn't get it, it don't make logical sense. PTSD is only a partial di>
_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274457 - 02/08/09 02:01 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
usmc97,

I understand what your saying and how you feel in regards to God's eternal love. I have gone through the same thing. Luckily my best friend and accountability partner keeps reminding me that even though God loves us he also gave us the gift of free will and can't break his own laws. I know I get angry when he say's it too, because it wasn't my free will. Evently it sank in
It's like when you take your child to the dr for shots you know it's going to hurt them, but for their own benefit you have to step aside and allow it to happen


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#274481 - 02/08/09 04:23 PM Re: God's love? [Re: christianfather]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
How is my getting hurt a benefit? How could even God expect me to step aside and allow them to do what they do to me? Even the hint that I'm supposed to accept it in any way is damaging. Just more stuff to make things worse. Seems everybody gets free will except for a worthless thing like me.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274483 - 02/08/09 04:50 PM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
Getting hurt is not a benefit. It's an unfortunate by-product of evil people. Due to the fact you seem to still be getting abused it's harder for you to see the forest through the trees right now.

Your not worthless and neither am I or any one of the rest of us here. Feeling worthless is the lie they told us in order to control us and that's what it comes down to them having control. I for one refuse to allow the MF** to have any more control over me right now. Your not suppose to accept the abuse as being OK, because it's not. It's not OK at all. I hope you find a way to get out of al this abuse your still going through soon.


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#277235 - 02/25/09 11:35 PM Re: God's love? [Re: christianfather]
ModTeam Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 691
Guys,

As happens here on the site sometimes, we had to temporarily move this thread to the mod forum for review since it was spiralling out of control. After some review, we were able to see the point of escalation and have removed the posts from that point forward and we're now restoring the thread back to the forum. We need to make a few observations here about what happened; but please look on these in the spirit in which they're intended which is not one of blame, but of looking to how we can support each other.

Some of you may not agree with the original poster's thoughts on what he was trying to convey and express. But something we all have to remember here is that we are ALL at different points in our recovery, and we ALL have a different journey in getting there. We would challenge each of us before making a reply to stop and consider that your fellow brother in recovery here may be having his absolute, worst day of recovery so far in his journey, so try to recall your worst one as well and then frame your response with that in mind.

Using statements such as "You should do xyz..." will many times only inflame a situation. It's important to remember to speak in "I" statements, such as what has worked for you in your recovery. That's where the rubber meets the road here, guys learning from others what has worked for them to recover some sense of wholeness in our lives.

Thanks for your understanding, guys, and thanks also for your support and encouragement you give to so many of your fellow brothers in their recovery.

Eddie, aka EGL
For the ModTeam

_________________________
Private messages sent to this account are checked irregularly due to personnel and time constraints. Please send messages to one of the moderators for the forum that is concerned by user name, or if there is no named moderator, send a PM to any moderator.

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#277239 - 02/25/09 11:53 PM Re: God's love? [Re: ModTeam]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
My contract with God is wicked simple:

I agree to be a human; unworthy of his love.

He agrees to love me no matter how bad I stink of humanity.

I agreed to teaming-up with his Son for acceptance by association.

_________________________
You are using 118 of the 300 allowed characters.

Still Not Recognized


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#277240 - 02/25/09 11:54 PM Re: God's love? [Re: Still]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
AMEN brother


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#277252 - 02/26/09 01:37 AM Re: God's love? [Re: Still]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't know that I am human, I have little proof.

If he agrees to love me it means nothing with out proof. Son on the cross doesn't prove much to me passed the sin subject.

If someone says that they love you and do nothing to show it how is it really love? How much more should come from God if a mere human can show love? Going through what I go through is punishment, not love by any definition.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#277719 - 03/01/09 11:09 AM Re: God's love? [Re: usmc97]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11135
Loc: Denver, CO
Kevin, you are human. I know firsthand. smile

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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