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#272728 - 01/26/09 12:38 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: Derdlecar]
tony2c Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 37
Loc: ny
usmc97

as a victim of incest, my father screwed alot of things up for me. especially with respect to God the Father. I wanted nothing to do with anything labeled "father" God, priests, even prayers -The Our Father was and at times the most difficult prayer I utter. I met a Father Paul latter on who caught on to "something about me, not being right" he was a God send - he helped tremendously - he told me to try to pray the Our Father for God's sake not my own - i focused my prayer for God. I had something to give him - that no one else could - my prayer - no matter the lack of help from him - I kept giving while forgiving - it made somewhat of a difference for me. yours in crosses

tony

_________________________
we are so accustomed to adopting masks before others, that we wind up being unable to recognize ourselves

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#272742 - 01/26/09 04:17 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: tony2c]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Why don't folks understand me? I've heard all of the great stories of what God has done in people's lives. Hearing more of that just makes me feel worse, might as well be telling me how much more hate He has for me. I'm trying to find how He loves me, I know He loves you and whoever else but what about me? I didn't do anything wrong, I have nothing bad to go back to. None of this comes from my choices in life. I came to Christ just as broken as I have been for years on account of the torment I recieve.

I'm getting raped and tortured and folks don't get that.

I had to recite that prayer and others as I was getting hurt by the priest. Please don't say Catholic things to me.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272747 - 01/26/09 04:58 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Man - if you are being raped now get the fuck out of there.
You have to find a way of escape.
and report the rapist to the authorities.
God promices a way of escape.
If you have landed in a place with snakes and vipers
they are evil. they are enemies of Christ.He rebukes the snakes and vipers in the Temple.
You need a safe Christian Church. might not be a Cathlic one. sometimes an institution protects its own. the Pope has set an adjenda , a stance against Priests who abuse. Someone might know a Priest or Bishop who cares. Write to the Pope if you have to.

Nathan 5

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272748 - 01/26/09 05:22 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: tony2c]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

Have you forgiven yourself for what others inflicted on you as a child. The sin and shame of what happened to you is theirs and not yours. Your freedom is now in your hands and not theirs.

Christ gave his life to free you from your sins.
It is a gift of grace.
Free to you and all who have the faith to just accept it.

What is our sin?
Rejecting the true and only God.

God is love.
He is our father who waits for us to return to him with open arms of love.
No matter what he will love us.
As all fathers do who truely love their children.

Don't allow the lies of abuse to keep you separated from him any longer.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272757 - 01/26/09 06:31 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Mike
please-I am a Christian trusting God as you can see from my posts
but how dare you suggest any of us have to forgive ourselves for the abuse and violation when someone else put shit on me?

I renounce abuse. that is I disown another man's shit.
and the damage he did

I trust God to restore my soul.

When I mess up , when I stuff up in how I respond or what I do to deaden the pain I can find plenty of things to repent of and ask forgiveness for and forgive myself for.

Forgiveness is not the only means of grace

there are many, many spiritual processes before forgiveness
when it comes to recovering from abuse

the sword thrust into my soul needs removing

shit
so many Christians saw the puss and told me to wash it
when the sword causing the abrasion needed to be carefully removed

my wound needs cleaning
it needs God's healing balm

forgiveness might sweaten the room
but it aint going to help me over being abused

sorry mate
hope you can take a Godly rebuke

no wonder so many guys here reject God

when we are hurting please show some compassion



Nathan 5

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272761 - 01/26/09 06:59 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Nathan,

Alot of survivors and I was one of them.
Blame themselves for what was done to us and carry the guilt and shame that truely belongs to the perp. Alot of us still beat ourselves over things we had no control over.

Grace means a free gift.

Also I am aware that there is alot more to the process of healing then just forgiveness.
But one of the more important ones for me was the necessity to forgive myself For what had happen to me as a child.
To put the responsibility at the foot of those who were truely responsible for the sexual abuse that I suffered.

To free myself from shame and give the shame back to the abuser.
That is what self forgiveness is to me.

I don't mind being rebuked but you should look down at your own hands and see who is really swinging the sword.
I know my fingerprints are not on it.

Does not Paul warn us about our tongues?

To build up and not tear down.

Mike





_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272763 - 01/26/09 07:19 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I have no sin of mine attatched to what was done to me. Nothing that I do now invites me to go through this present torment either. After all that I gather myself in even a hint of being a believer that God would see it as rejection makes God a being that I want nothing to do with. God knows my efforts and if He lay blame on me after all of this hell then I was truly hated by His choice. I don't believe that He would be that way toward me after the life I've been given.


That is the kind of things that came out of that priest's mouth.... somehow it was my fault for what he and others did to me.... that I am sin.... that I am a demon.... that God hated me.... it goes on and on, all backed up by the beliefs of the Catholic church. The Catholic hierarchy does not genuinly care to the point of ridding themselves of men and monsters who hide behind their cloth. They do not come forward with names of the offenders that hide in their ranks. They have shuffled them around since their beginnings. The priest who did to me died a martyr hailed by the Catholic church.

Nothing that I do gives reason for what is done to me. Not unforgiveness, not bitterness, not acceptance of Christ. His death does not prove love for me, I wish that it did but he lived a privelaged life compared to mine. Plus the fact that He's God, it just don't have the same effect which is why I asked the first question.... there has to be something else to say prove His love to someone like me because the text book answers are simply not enough.

Forgiveness is not supposed to be a chore, besides... how can there be forgiveness without true repentance? Not one of those who hurt me have ever come forward. Is one out of 40+ too much to ask? Forgiving the anonymous mass of them while I'm still getting hurt doesn't seem like it's something you could ask of anybody. Jesus was God, He knew all that hurt Him.

What is done to me now people don't seem to have a clue and somehow that is my fault too? I have no place to run, I have no escape. That's why it is hard not to believe that I am hated and all the other things that I was taught about my being. If grace is free then why am I paying for it and it's never given?

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272765 - 01/26/09 08:06 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

The Catholic Church is not God on earth. They are just a group of priviledged people who use God's name in order to profit themselves. They will use all means possible to protect their turf against anybody or anything. And if they have to squash a child or anybody they will to protect themselves so be it.
In fact I see most organized churchs and religions in the same light. I don't see much difference between them and government. They are just their to impose views on people and to extort as much money as possile.

They blamed you for there actions so as to free themselves the responsibility of their behavior. They will never ever accept responsibility for there actions in this lifetime or the next.
If you base your freedom from the abuse you suffered on their owning responsibility or asking for repentance for what they did.
You are dooming yourself to an self imposed hell.

I found forgiveness when I stop demanding justic for the abuse that happened to me as a child. Because sometimes there is no justice to be had. But to learn to thrive inspite of what others have done to us.

For We live in a fallen world.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272769 - 01/26/09 08:49 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Michael

the hardest thing for me to do is to stop demanding
and I mean demanding and demanding justice

Nathan


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#272778 - 01/26/09 10:00 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I do not base my "freedom" on what they feel. I do not have freedom because of them, only them, not me, that has nothing to do with my decisions which is something you do not understand. Your agreeing with them is hurtful, I do not self-impose this stuff upon my head. I didn't then. I don't now.

My biggest issue is not with being tortured and raped in the past, it is that I have to go through it all over again, not "reliving", another thing that you are not understanding along with most others. The only people who seem to have a glimmer of understanding have either been witness to what happens to me or they just don't doubt the depth of what those things are.

I don't need justice I just want them to stop hurting me. I want people to stop blaming me for what they did and are doing to me. I want God to love me like He loves others. To me the "we live in a fallen world" kind of stuff is an excuse for the general population to not have responsibilities. The phrase is true but it is not ment to be an excuse.

Who even on this site was able to forgive as they were being terrorized? If there are any who were able to accomplish that as a child I can guarantee that they are few. It took you and others years after your abuse ended for you to reach what you believe as forgiveness but you impose a different standard on me, I don't even get 48hours.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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