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#272593 - 01/25/09 02:27 PM No where to turn ! 1st post.
Highlanderhog Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
I have no other options yet. Tried in vain for three weeks to find a T within a 100 miles or less than has any ability or experience to work with male survivers. Early Dec. the layer on the onion was peeled away by accident. I have only this site. Been in recovery with AA for 3 years and 9 months ( 5+ before that and in & out for2 years)and feel utterly alone. I live in a rural area and small town where most everybody knows me or my family. I have good reason not to trust my doctor (they talk )and got such a negative response from sponser about seeking T. I feel even more isolated and alone and now the panic attacks are worse. Went to my cell phone directory to share with someone in AA my confusion, fear, and pain about discovering the elephant in the room I have been ignoring, unfortunately there are none that I can trust with such a secret or/and relate. I hate my life ( NOT suicidal).

_________________________
Please just use HLH instead of HighlanderHog!
I have lived the saying " religion is for people afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." But, I am happy for anyone who has a Higher power that works for them no matter where they find it.

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#272596 - 01/25/09 02:35 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Hilander, and welcome to the MS site. Glad you found this place of support, I feel it will be a great help to you. Finding the right T is tough, I went to 4 different ones and they varied in helpfullness from Great to Horrible. While it would be good if your T has specfic experience or training in working with male survivors, I wouldn't throw them out all together if they do not. Mine didn't have that specific qualification, yet they were very good at helping me with the issues. If you are close to the LR area, please send me a private message if you want using the site's PM facility and I can give you a couple of good recommendations.

Again, welcome, and I hope you get some peace here.

_________________________
Eddie

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#272602 - 01/25/09 02:59 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: EGL]
lars3229 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Iowa
Welcome Hilander.
We're glad you're here. Finding a good T was difficult for me as well. There aren't many in the middle of Iowa who have dealt with male survivors, but I did find one who has been of help to me.
I know you're in a rough spot right now, but the med of this site a wonderful and listening and offering a supportive word or two whenever you need it. I hope you find some peace here along your journey.

Peace,

lars

_________________________
You may trod me
in the very dirt
But still,
like dust,
I'll rise.

-Maya Angelou

"I quite often remember to forget these sorts of things."
-Winnie the Pooh, The Tigger Movie

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#272605 - 01/25/09 03:38 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
welcome highlander! our brothers seem to be coming in herds and droves out of the walls these days! so sad in one way, but so joyful in another. now that you have found male survivor, you have found a safe place to fall apart, and put yourself back together again.

one piece at a time! one day, one moment, one nano second at a time highlander.

so glad you made it, and looking forward to you sharing your story with us. after dealing with this for over 40 years, i can tell you there is hope. it does not all come in one big gulp, but in little sips as needed. male survivor is a really, really, good place to begin your healing.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#272624 - 01/25/09 07:04 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Sans Logos]
beakin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Texas
Highlanderhog:

Next month will make 6 years sober for me in AA. I'm sorry to hear you didn't get a very positive response from your sponsor about finding a therapist. How blessed I feel that I have a sponsor who understands that the Big Book tells us that we seek outside help where it's needed.

I'm finally dealing with the abuse in my childhood and was lucky enough to be able to contact a previous T from years ago. He made a suggestion for someone about 100 miles from where I live. I've seen Michael for the past maybe three months now and it's helped already. I trust this man. To be honest, I trust very few people, particularly men.

I also know a couple of AA members who are csa survivors. It's helped to be able to talk a bit. I don't pretend to really remember all of what happened at this point, but I tried to drink those memories away for 33 years.

Try to stay in today and just do the next thing you need to do. Every time I start to panic, I find I'm able today to recognize (usually) that it's starting. I try to take a step back and realize the problem didn't start today and that it won't be solved today. But, I can live with that today and accept that it is truly progress, not perfection. Today I know it will all work out. Just knowing that helps keep me in my skin when the pain wants to overwhelm me.

Reading what others have to say here has gone a long way toward making me realize I am not alone with this. I'm not unique and I'm not bad.

Welcome. I'm determined this time the pain will not scare me away from recovery.



ben

_________________________
Only you can do it, but you cannot do it alone.

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#272721 - 01/26/09 11:44 AM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Greetings Highlanderhog.
Wecome to M/S and to hell too. You came to the right place. Right here, right now. Here I am HOME. Here I am with REAL friends/brothers. We have been there, we have been into the depths of hell, and into the very depths of our souls. In this web site you will see where we bare our very souls to each other. Here you will get compassion, understanding and love. I/we are not trained therapists, but we try and help each other along. Besides who knows better than US? We all might not agree with some of the answers we get. But you get to pick and choose what is best for you. I myself are fairly new in this web site and in therapy (6 months). So you see you DID have somewhere to turn. I hope that you can find a competent therapist soon. I held my SECRET for 55 years buried in the depths of my soul, until last August. So Highlanderhog again welcome, please let me be your friend/brother in healing Highlanderhog.
Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#272724 - 01/26/09 12:01 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: petercorbett]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Welcome to a place of Love and support Highlanderhog.

I feel the pain in your post. I am moved to share my belief that letting your higher power guide you will surely bring you to others with the pain of CSA who you can physically share hugs with. My morning reading in the big book includes a reminder to turn my will over to my higher power "Thy will be done", it helps me to move closer to serenity. (the end of Chapter 6 Into action)...

keep your eyes peeled for am AA event, roundup or whatever, to attend and let your higher power guide you to who and what you need.

Love Wes

--I feel like I am sliding away from experience strength and hope and moving towards advice... Be wary, I'm an addict, I have been know to lie. :-\ --

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#272738 - 01/26/09 02:33 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: wes-b]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 859
Loc: washington
Highlander,

Isolated...I get that.

Firstly, I am wondering why your sponsor gave you such a negative response.

What does it say before pg. 164?...that states, "Are book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little."

...So backing up to the "little we know" on pg. 133 it states, "But this does not mean that we disreguard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors,psychologists,and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or psyciatrist. Their services are often indispensible in treating a newcomer and in FOLLOWING HIS CASE AFTERWARD. (copied from the Big Book (Fourth Edition)of Alcoholics Anonymous).

I'm just curious about how much your sponsor knows about the little that they know. My guess is less than zero. I'm sure he means well, but is his advice really helping you? Does he have a sponsor? Which would be your Grand Sponsor...as/for a second opinion?

Whenever I see three women sitting at at table (I think) odds are one of them has been molested. Males, I believe is 1 in six. Please have faith that your not as alone as you think you are.

I like what Wes had to say about keeping your eyes peeled. I parted with my last sponsor (as he could not help me). The Big Book was everything I needed, If I just stayed sober everything would get better. Advice that I believe does more harm than good.

On a personal note: I just started meeting with someone last week, with several years of sobriety (recently relapsed). He is my new travelling companion. I am sure you have seen how a normie, just doesn't get it like another fellow alchoholic. The same applies to dealing with CSA.

Have hope. Help is out there..


Human (The Killers)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#272831 - 01/27/09 05:22 AM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I think you have found a good place to start. I think a lot of folks like me just aren't ready for face to face therapy right off the bat.

_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#273853 - 02/03/09 02:37 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: blueshift]
Highlanderhog Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
Thanks everyone for your words. Just got power back yesterday after the ice storm. Went a week with no power and sub freezing temps with just layers of clothing and bottled water ( on well, no generator ). wife had left to go see her son just before the power went and the worst ice hit. I was all alone, it felt kinda good.
About my sponser(s). I have not had the best luck ( who could know the folks in AA have defects !!!lol) The first one who sounded so good in the meetings turned out to have never ever done the steps and was too busy trying to play around on his wife to work with me( he went out before I could change ), the next one turned out to have brain cancer and died within a year. After that several members turned me down due to travel needs etc....and I find out later after I gave my first talk about my drunkalog history at least half the members resented me or were uncomfortable with the fact that they percieved me to be rich. In fact, at the end of my talk a local on the front row when it was his turn to talk said " hell, if I had your money i'd still be drinking !to the laughter of several( my talk had nothing to do with $ at all but I am well known in town) I most always wore a tie and dress clothes to meetings (because i was going or coming to work---gotta work more than ANYONE else to prove I am worth something ). Please understand that the area I live in ( sorry for the generalizations) consists of usually one of two groups, either retired and moved here for cheaper living from up north or CA with the majority being blue collar, or, the folks who grew up in this small town where a couple of families had most of the $ and everyone worked for them at low wages. It is hard if not impossible to ever be accepted by the locals ( both groups have lots and lots of good people in them ).
Anyway I had to basically just survive for a year on my own in the program and with enough pain I finished my 4th step and needed someone to take the 5th step with NOW ! So I called the people I wanted the most but finally about the 9th person on my list agreed. BIG MISTAKE ! Again, sounded like the big book author in meetings but I was later to learn several years later that he had not had a sponser in 10 years and had never gone past the 5th step himself. I went to him about porn, etc.. and always was just redirected. Just go to meetings and stay sober and everything will get better was the pat reply ( this is about 3-4 years sober ). The layers of my onion were being peeled away slowly due to lots of self study and being lucky enough to find speaker tapes ( I LOVE Frank M. IL )that saved my life at the time. Unfortunately I see now that I was closer and closer to noticing the 500 lb. Gorilla in the room that I kept cleaning and working around. I finally had to get another sponser when he was so enraged with politics that I either had to defend myself ( his house ) or leave. Of course I left.
Next sponser was no BS kinda guy and I respect the hell out of him but as I looked back I had learn ( my defect and my perception ) to only say so much after 4 years of , I don't know, self sponsorship or/and the fear of letting another man know what happened to me especially when taking my 5th step I was told when going over my resentments the first one was my perp that it was no big deal I just had to quit using it as a crutch . that was it no more disscusion ever was allowed on CSA. A lttle over 5 years sober ( little growth/lot dry ) I literally took a glass of wine in another country with out thinking, once I did, what a weekend in Bucharest and what guilt and shame on the way home during the long flights. Went 1 1/2 drinking off and on but still going to meeting and pretending to be sober. But that damn 500lb gorilla was right there just under the surface. Finally admitted to a person with 39 years of sobriety at the time that I was drinking ( surprise ! most other AA's with any awareness knew I was drinking already ) Ther first thing we did was work on adult children of alcoholics which helped and for the first time in my life I was completely honest with another person ( albeit as honest as I was capable after so many years of being able to lie with no thought process ) a lot of growth has occured the past 3 years and 10 months. However, any attempt to discuss my perp (feeling towards him )and the after effects of CSA were quickly dropped. After (my sponser) told me that homosexuallity was deviant learned behavior and not genetic, etc.... would you mention your confused and sometimes inappropriate sexual id to that person ( I am not gay, but I will not be anybody's judge on their sexual preference ) ? I can't. We have drifted apart. There is that guy from before that I respect and have seen live the steps but I just can not tell him the big secret. The problem is as it hit me over a month ago that almost all my defects stem from the CSA and my family( incest, violence, negativity, manipulation, etc... ). I have to go for a while. I do not type well and both hands go numb ( I spent a lot of years proving how manly and tough I was ). Thank you again for your time and words.






Edited by Highlanderhog (02/03/09 03:29 PM)
_________________________
Please just use HLH instead of HighlanderHog!
I have lived the saying " religion is for people afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." But, I am happy for anyone who has a Higher power that works for them no matter where they find it.

Top
#273858 - 02/03/09 03:36 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Highlanderhog,

Welcome to MS, so glad that you found us.

Here is the place where you deal with issues pertaining to male CSA - not in AA.

AA, as you well know, is a living program whose sole purpose is sobriety and issues about sobriety. AA is not set up in any way to deal with any other life issues - nor should it be.

While it is true that a great number of recovering alcoholics are also former CSA victims, it is also true that these same recovering alcoholics refuse to even look at, let alone deal with, their childhood sexual abuse. These people believe that if they just get and stay sober then all will be fine.

When someone (you - me) comes along and throws something (other than sobriety issues) on the table that recovering alcoholics are uncomfortable with, they either recoil in shock or they deny that they see what they see.

Been there, still have the T-Shirt! You couldn't pay me enough money to go back to AA...........Such narrow, narrow people.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#273860 - 02/03/09 04:03 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: joelRT]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: joelRT
You couldn't pay me enough money to go back to AA...........Such narrow, narrow people.

ouch! oh no he dih-unt snap snap!

joel some people may resembl,..... er, i mean, resent that remark. oh well, i still love ya buddy, nothing you could say could ever change the label i have placed on you. no matter what everybody says..... you're ok in my book. wink

ok, to the real reason i am replying: i did the 'my problem is alcohol' mindfuk for 23 years and just kept banging into walls as well. i too saw that as my main issue, and of course, food, overwork, process addictions...they were all there too, but for some reason they did not seem as grave. it was primarily the social stigma around being a drinker that kept me from drinking for so many years.

the truth is there are many reasons why people indulge in obsessive compulsive self-deprecating behaviors. i was glad i blamed alcohol as the primary addiction for all those years, because it at least gave a clearer position from which to resolve many of the standing issues, but also glad i was able to see and accept as the wall it was, for me to hide behind to avoid dealing with the root of my compulsions.

but that's just me.

some of my favorite people are recovering alcoholics. mostly everyone i know is living with some type of narcissistic behavior, and that's just human nature.

but at some point i had to lose the label in order to move into wider realms of recovery.

highlanderhog, in many ways i found aa to be helpful, but i also found it at times to be a greater inhibitor for realizing full human potential to the extent that everyone with a few months sobriety qualifies as an expert on how everyone else best live their life. considering how complex the issues around human being, it's understandable why the stick-to-it-iveness statistics are so low.

while there are no guarantees, unless people transfer their interdependence to a structured program of recovery and healing, very little true progress possible.

ok, now, just make sure the tomatoes are not canned please.....

ron



_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#273861 - 02/03/09 04:24 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Sans Logos]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
My good friend Ron, as well as anyone who may care to bitch slap me laugh

I payed my dues in AA, I did what I was told to do and I did it faithfully. Against my better judgement, I didn't question the program, blamed myself when it just was not freakin' working all to discover that as a complete living program AA cannot live up to it's promise.

If all you want is to get and be sober, then AA is where you want to and should be!!! I will tout that to my dying day!

I use to this day many of the precepts and concepts of AA in my daily struggles and I will be forever greatfull for what I learned to apply to my life while in AA.

However, if what you want is a full life, then you need to look outside the confines of the "you can't get or stay well without us" proned in AA.

STATISTIC: According to the powers that be in AA itself, the recovery success rate of AA is 11% - everyone else who walks through the hallowed AA doors ends up in the ditch. Why, you ask? Well, because you can't get or stay sober without the AA brotherhood, of course. C'mon people put down that drink and pay attention!


Unlike my buddy, Ron, I dodge cans beautiffuly - go ahead....... laugh

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#273870 - 02/03/09 05:09 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: joelRT]
Highlanderhog Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
"I use to this day many of the precepts and concepts of AA in my daily struggles and I will be forever greatfull for what I learned to apply to my life while in AA."

Without taking the steps and learning the tools like inventory my onion would still have the first layer. I was considered an outgoing, happy, " normal" kid until the abuse started. Alcohol saved my life for a long time but then it quit working, I was still ME when I drank. My biggest issue with AA now is I am isolated with my secret. Plus many want you to make AA the sole of your existence and friends and do 5 meetings a week, all conferences, service work, etc... Understand 1/2 or more of the people where I live are retired and that is great for them plus since they are almost 98% from somewhere else they have awesome AA dedication stories of walking uphill both ways in the snow and picking up newcomers on they way to a meeting while walking with a broken foot LOL.

_________________________
Please just use HLH instead of HighlanderHog!
I have lived the saying " religion is for people afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." But, I am happy for anyone who has a Higher power that works for them no matter where they find it.

Top
#273871 - 02/03/09 05:15 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1238
Loc: Northern Ohio
What a Brave & Strong man you are Highlanderhog.

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#273872 - 02/03/09 05:32 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Highlanderhog - this is last time that I'm writing the whole out (I can't type at the best of times). From now on it's gonna be HLH from me smile

I hear what you're saying about how difficult it is to get some grounding under you when you're alone out in left field. Until you manage to connect in a more tangible way with others, might I suggest the following site? It's a long read to be sure, but it goes a long way to explaining why you are, as a CSA survivor, how you are.
http://jimhopper.com/

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#273875 - 02/03/09 05:52 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: joelRT]
Highlanderhog Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
I thought of that after I registered I am going to see how to show that abreviation HLH. I take for ever to type yet I use a longname , duh.

_________________________
Please just use HLH instead of HighlanderHog!
I have lived the saying " religion is for people afraid to go to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there." But, I am happy for anyone who has a Higher power that works for them no matter where they find it.

Top
#273879 - 02/03/09 06:05 PM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
smile HLH, and thanks!!!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

Top
#273945 - 02/04/09 10:27 AM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: joelRT]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, HLH.

Well I'm a graduate of AA, been 32 years sober. Most of my alcoholic days were in the military. Mostly limited to Friday PM-Sunday PM, then later in my career it was more frequent. I started drinking at 16, joined the Air Force at 17. Just why did I turn to alcohol? I was running away from something, but I just didn't really know what from. But I had always put it on the emotional, physical and mental abuse rendered to me since the day I came into this world, by my "mother". Now from at about 4-5 years of age she was taking very good care of my penis. However I had never considered that sexual abuse until I was 69 yrs old. But i was a victim of sexual abuse by a friend of the family, between 8-14 yrs old for years and some total strangers. But this stuff on that sexual abuse by my main perp was buried deep into the depths of my soul and mind, until last August.

My participation in AA in the Air Force, was a valuable lesson for me, It for me was a rewarding experience. We were always in civilian clothes, and on a first name basis. However being in the military we see and work together, but what is said, what is heard and who we seen was a secret unto our selfs.

Now there is no way that I would ever try and work my CSA with a group in AA. It's a whole different ballgame. Nor would I try and work my AA with a group in CSA.

Vastly different circumstances, different kinds of REAL friends too.

Gotta keep both seperate, 12 steps included, along with ones concept of a "higher power". I hope that this makes some sense to some one.
Heal well my brothers/friends.
Pete (Irishmoose)



Edited by petercorbett (02/04/09 10:30 AM)
Edit Reason: sentence structure
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


Top
#285041 - 04/23/09 08:43 AM Re: No where to turn ! 1st post. [Re: Highlanderhog]
mapleleafsn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Eastern Canada
Hello HLH

I too am a friend of Bill W and Dr Bob. I recieved mixed ideas from other members of that fellowship in regards to seeking outside help for the abuse issues. I found this site late 2008 when I finally started with a T that had some knowledge of Childhood Sex abuse issues. My heart goes out to you in these early days of dealing with the elephant. It was a great relief for me to finally get an understanding that many of my attitudes and behaviours were a direct result of the abuse. Is my life perfect now? Not really, however it is greatly improving each and every day. The fears of what other people may think about me because of it have diminished dramatically. If they want to talk behind my back, so be it. My attitude is to get my life on a better path and not to worry about what others think.

Welcome to the rest of your life my friend. You are not alone with your history. visit this site as often as you need to so that you can remind yourself that you are valued and accepted for who you are now and not what you may have mistakenly thought of yourself.

Steve

_________________________
When the pain of remaining the same finally outweighs the pain of change---things will begin.... life is meant to be enjoyed not endured.

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