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#272354 - 01/23/09 02:06 AM CSA effects on sexual identity
myshoeisonfire Offline


Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Portland, OR
Does anyone have any insight on this? has there been any link between CSA, and people having a same sex attraction? This is a devistating thought as I am realizing it definatly could be true in my situation. Parents, Friends, Nobody Could possibly understand what this is like! how can it be discussed, when mentioning it will get you thrown under the bus!?!

I guess im wondering if theres anyone else out there that feels their CSA may have had an impact on them having an attraction to the same sex... or somehow had an effect on sexual orientation all together!
I want to place blame on the person who did this to me, but I dont know! im pretty sure i would not have this attraction if it wernt for the CSA
any thoughts?


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#272355 - 01/23/09 02:31 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6704
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: myshoeisonfire
im wondering if theres anyone else out there that feels their CSA may have had an impact on them having an attraction to the same sex... or somehow had an effect on sexual orientation all together!


It is true for me. I had a crush on a boy in high school. I started the recovery process years later. I had a lot of counseling, and EMDR. Then I found that the boy was a look-alike of my perp when I was 10 years old. I was projecting feelings on to him from my own abuse. His abuse of me had left that kind of a scar in my brain.

Now after all this counseling and EMDR I find I am being attracted to the female form and appearance. I never thought it would happen, but it did.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#272358 - 01/23/09 04:17 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: pufferfish]
behindthewall Offline


Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 126
Loc: US
I'm bi. My family is gererational satanic cult practioners, so I was abused pretty much since birth sexually..physically.

I find that the men I am attracted to are ones like what I experienced in childhood. My sexual preferences are extreme (bdsm, get off on pain and such). I like guys that dominate. With females tho, its not the same. I dont like dominate females, nor do I want to dominate them. With them, I want it on equal ground I guess.

I don't think I'd be like this if it wasn't for the abuse I went through as a kid. For me I think it had an impact, not sayin thats true for everyone tho.


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#272368 - 01/23/09 09:16 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: behindthewall]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I have had the opposite effect. I am gay by orientation, but my early sexual abuse and the guilt and shame that was placed on me made my attraction to men repulsive to me. I found that sex with a woman was not triggering in the same way, but my attraction was only emotional. I love my wife as a wonderful friend - a person that shares my goals and ideals. A person I like spending time with. But the sex was always "fine".

After 2 years of intense work, I now identify as gay and am in a wonderful relationship with a great man - but my abuse caused so much confusion, I am just discovering who I am.

I think the affects of sexual abuse are profound in all areas of our lives. I think there are many men who are confused about their orientation - but I think working on my issues from the abuse... ALL the issues, not just the sexual identity ones, lead me to have a clearer understanding of who I am sexually.

I think you will find a lot of guys in the same boat, some that will end up identifying as straight, some gay, and some bi - but for me, I needed to accept myself as a PERSON before I could move on the finer points of who that person is.

Welcome to the site - I have found that you can get a lot of support here no matter what. There is no judgement here.. just good guys who understand.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#272381 - 01/23/09 11:23 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: dannym]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada
Ye of the burning shoe, my brother :-)

there is certainly a link... many of us have suffered the affects of this. For me it was a great relief when I learned that the confusion I had had it's roots in my being sexually abused... there was still some work to connect with my true orientation; it is good, very good. One source is Joe Kort, and his website straitguise which is dedicated to this subject. Peruse MS and you will find many resources, links and pointers on this subject and more... Being an incest survivor I know that these aberrant experiences wounded my sexuality deeply, and confusion about my orientation was only part of it...

Stick around my brother, and as my dear bother Pete(IrishMoose) says "heal well".

Love from the frozen north, Wes



Edited by wes-b (01/23/09 11:24 AM)
_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#272383 - 01/23/09 11:40 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: wes-b]
kb4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Saskatchewan,Canada
I too experienced the confusion.As As I would come closer to other men, Alarms would go off and I would be confused about the feelings.I realize now it was the csa.For this reason although I have lots of freinds I have few close ones.I now know why I missed alot of good people along the way and I regret that becuase of csa.


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#272406 - 01/23/09 07:05 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: kb4]
myshoeisonfire Offline


Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Portland, OR
The CSA for me happened when i was about 7 or 8 years old, too early for me to remeber any sort of sexual orientation, plus thats an early age - I dont think most kids understand what thats all about at that point anyways. There is definatly an attraction to the male figure though, and im almost positive its a direct result of the CSA. There have been far more times that I have been out in public, and the sight of a certian male figure cast its attraction powers over me, than the same for women. Most of my friends kinda wonder whats up with me - they may not say anything, but I can tell. Never had a girlfriend, and am usually totally oblivious to any flirting that girls try on me. "So hey - no girlfriend yet?( and in jest) whats the matter, you GAY?" I know they arent meaning anything by that, just something people tend to joke about in my experience, but to me, those comments have an effect on my mental state.. they start me thinking about my situation, and my ongoing quest for finding out who I am, and what I identify with sexually.

I am not sexually active, nor have ever been - (other than the CSA - but i dont count that... or should I?) Also, eventually when I end up in some sort of situation that begs for sexual acitvity, I dont know how ill respond! I feel like I would immediatly jump back to the CSA in my mind, and its unclear at this point if it would cloud my mind in such a way as to prohibit me from engauging in any sort of sexual activity...

Basically I feel like I have been robbed of a dating life, and also robbed of "normal" sexual-id development as well. I have just plain never been interested in women, or in having any sort of relationship beyond just a good friend!

problem is - the drive is definatly there! there's no escaping from that!! I feel like a 16 year old,(from what im told) and its all I can think about! its crazy!

...these are just things constantly going thru my mind!

I was also on medication all thru middle, and high school, and there is a large block of 6-7 years I DONT REMEMBER AT ALL!

I am seeing a therapist on a regular basis... but as we all know, its a LONG process.

when I first came to the realization in therapy that I was in fact VERY attracted to the male form, and accepted that, it explained a log of things. but at the same time, that was the worst week of my life. SO many questions raging thru my head. I have a religious christian upbringing, and all the associated thoughts relating to this.. "why would god have this happen" "if we were designed in such a way as to allow this to happen, maybe its not wrong!" I felt inferior, and I felt like I was of no use. I had become the very thing that is the representation all evil! for a short time, I felt I was not needed anymore in this life! I never had thoughts of suicide, but thats just me. I quickly realized I needed to get a handle on this - QUICK!!

I systematically looked at everything in my brain at that moment.. ok - Gay = sin (from my church) god knows this happened to me. God knows i didnt deserve it. God also knows the desires it left with me. then in a split second - it hit me.. DAMMIT EVERYONG ELSE IS WRONG!! ALL OF THEM!!

I settled on the fact of my belief, that god knows everything, and designed everything. I dont beleve he is responsible for everything that happens, and there are a lot of people that credit god for a lot of good, and bad things that happen. but I believe he setup everything the way it is, and we are free to do whatever we want.

God is not wrong! .

Think of it this way... we were all designed how we are, and If a child being abused by another man, leaves that child with a sexual desire for men, than thats the way we were designed! Its not my fault the abuse happened, and im not going to say my resulting sexual desires are a bad thing.
The churches I have been to would say well... any DESIRE for another man, is a sin. but wait a minute... god made us this way...
so who is wrong here? i sure know who isnt wrong!

I have gotten my peace in all of this from knowing that we were designed in such a way as to allow an infinate number of things to happen as they will. We can be manipulated in a number of ways, right or wrong, but our "programming" is still the same. I was manipulated. My programming hasnt changed. still the same person / body. god knew that when we were made, there were an infinate number of things we could do, and participate in, and have done to us - all with varying results, and long term effects. To say that my attraction to men is wrong, is to say that god gave us inferior programming. There are a lot of different things I could do with my urges... but whats right, or wrong, is how I deal with them. just as I would deal with anything else. anger, fustration, joy, ect...

So thats whats going on in my head, and how I rationalized my male attraction.

thats no end though! ive got a LOT of go thru still!

people are noticing that im not "normal" in such a way as to check out the ladies as they pass by, and a few of my friends are married and having kids! and a few poeple have cought me in a hypnotic trance, staring at giant posters on the walls in the mens underwear department! I am good at making excuses up on the spot... but im tired of this!!

I'm only 28!

Whats a good sexual outlet??? im soooooooo fustrated!!!!!


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#272418 - 01/23/09 10:41 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 856
Loc: washington
Myshuisonfyre,

A link? Absolutely...!!!

I am sexually attracted to females, yet I believe I am physically attracted to having sex with males.

Am I making any sense?...or does this sound confusing? Right about now your probably wondering what my sexual orientation is.
Starting to get confused myself... Somedays I feel certain, other times I feel a coin toss might be more appropriate...

If I were to contribute or add insight to this missing link is that it has caused deffinite great personal confusion.

I visualize a short curcuit corresponding to my CSA (between the ages of 6 and 7 years old).

I have also come to a point in my life, where I am comfortable, not knowing all the answers, and am not comfortable listening to any organization or body that claims to have/has or knows all the answers.

I feel, each relationship is special and unique as the next. It is not good for my sanity to future trip or back track.

...So where will I end up? I have no idea. I guess I'll just cross that bridge when I come to it...and if there is a fork in the road...I'm looking for something to eat...!!!


island

p.s. If you don't own a washing machine...

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#272439 - 01/24/09 02:15 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: 1islandboy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Hi all, Ok my 2 Euro cents worth. (2 Euro cents are worth more than 2 US cents).

Any one who has read any of my posts since the 1st of this year will understand me and my (then) confusion.Over sexual idenity.
However I am no longer confused, ta da after only 69 years on earth, see it is never too late for an old dog (me) to learn something new about himself.

Now (and I'm sure to get some ire from others on this statement) I don't give a damn what ever the churches teach about homosexuality or any other form of sexuality, be it masturbation, be it having sex male to male or female to female, as long as it is between 2 loving and consenting adults. Be it being legally same sex marriage or living in a loving and emotional union together.

And I sure don't give a damn on what society thinks about my lifestyle either. If I choose to love and share an emotional life with another male. Thats me.

If I am condemmed to hell, well that's ok too. Because in my (humble) opinion we boys whom were sexually, emotionally, physically and mentally abused. This is our HELL right here on earth. Nuff said.
Heal well my brothers/friends.
Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#273288 - 01/30/09 04:54 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: petercorbett]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Undisclosed
I have struggled with almost everything already said before me here. This topic os precisely what I was looking to explore.

I'd like to offer my take: I am attracted to both women and men. For much of my adult life I wanted to know what the impact of being sexually abused was on my orientation and today I believe that it didn't influence my attraction. I'm feeling that I was always bi.


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#273301 - 01/30/09 09:22 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
guys you are in the right forum for exploring your question about this particular issue. many of the members' stories here resonate.

i encourage you to spend a lot of time in this forum exploring the list of threads on this particular issue.

there is a whole lot of good solid research information supplied by the well informed professional pillars of this organization.

check out the main page, and just pull up a seat and begin perusing the threads here.

good luck with as you begin exploring this subject.

hoping for all the best for you in your healing,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#273345 - 01/31/09 06:48 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: brother2none]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Ohio
i'm still confused and i hate it.

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#273352 - 01/31/09 09:11 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: brother2none]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
B2N,

Wecome to MS. I'm sure that you to, as amny before you, will find many of the answers that you seek as journey on to recovery.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#273366 - 01/31/09 11:31 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Undisclosed
Thank you JoelRT. Its even nicer to feel welcomed personally by another.


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#273768 - 02/02/09 11:46 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: brother2none]
faller2 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 14
Loc: New Jersey
Yes! Regardless of sexual orientation, male on male sexual contact in an abusive situation will alter one's sexuality; though it does not have to be forever. Even men who self-identify as homosexual will be affected by abusive male-on-male sexual contact. The key to healing and understanding is being positive. I'm a heterosexual male and have always been attracted to women. That said, I have had serious sexual-identity issues in the past. I am currently struggling with 'un-conditioning' myself to being eroticized by specific male-on-male intrusive thoughts from being abused. (That's a mouthful!) The key is to educate yourself--research, ask questions, and be brave every moment of every day! There are fantastic books out there, and current research has produced extremely profound insight.


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#274172 - 02/06/09 11:06 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Yes, there is no question in my mind at this point, I have had all the same feelings, I have had this discussion with gay men, and they seem to feel “I am just gay” if I am attracted to men. This is an ideology the Gay community enforces, they own homosexuality, you cross the line and your gay! I don’t believe in labels like this which are suited for people who have a political agenda, and it’s the first thing you will have to part with if you intend to get your life back on track I would imagine.

SS attraction is developed one way or another, for some people it may be their genetic disposition, for others it can be by recruitment. The way I see it, if you always knew something was wrong and had a gut feeling that your life would have been radically different if you had not been victimized then that is probably the case. I am not saying I would have turned out straight, maybe I’d be bi sexual, but what ever I would have chosen it would have been my choice. I had always felt choices were made for me in this regard, and I have always stuck by that, it is just a gut level intuition, even to this day and I am 47 yo at this point. My whole life has passed me by and I am still home alone, depressed and broken! But I am grateful I have found other people that understand me, for once in my life I feel understood. I can’t thank you enough for this post! God Bless!
smile


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#274173 - 02/06/09 11:21 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
SIDUDE,

Welcome to MS, my friend.

You said
Quote:
But I am grateful I have found other people that understand me, for once in my life I feel understood.

Man, you echo exactly my very sentiments when I first came to MS - I was actually shocked to discover at the age of fifty one that there is whole world of men out there (well, ok, in here then grin ) who speak the same language that I do.

Finding MS gave me to come in out the cold world of the 'normal people' and to discover that there was a place at the table of recovery just waiting for me to sit my butt down in the chair labeled brotherhood.

May we be all of that you as well, again, welcome!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#274174 - 02/06/09 11:29 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks Bro, I am hurling in tears here, and I am at work, I am so blown away! (Hug)


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#274175 - 02/06/09 11:32 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Oh man, you fit right in grin pull up a chair.......it has your name on it already!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#274176 - 02/06/09 11:42 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
I have been doing this self help crap since I am 29, I have seen therapists since I was 12, nothing has helped me, I am really sick of this, I see no hope anymore fellas, although I do hope the younger people affected by this get help. We know more now and early intervention is probably a great thing. I wish someone was around when I was 20. God knows I was looking for help, had a therapist, went to surrogate therapy at some point, none of it made any difference, sorry to be so down but it is how I feel, and I have to be honest bout it, don’t want to effect anyone else’s recovery in a negative way, but I am defiantly suicidal at this point.


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#274179 - 02/06/09 12:05 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Hold up there my new brother - suicidal? I think not! You wouldn't be reaching out and talking if you were suicidal. Talk to me about suicidal - I wrote a whole chapter in that book, but I refuse to go there any more because if I do, then my rapist and my other abusers win. My innocence they took from me, ok, but I'll be damed if I'm gonna let 'em have my life too......

Man, I know you're hurting, I've been where you're at right now - there are very few men here who haven't been where you're at at some point in their recovery, just want to lie down and be done with it all - that certainly is an option, but is it a solution? Again, I think not!

SIDUDE, I've been at recovery for over twenty years now, and like you I had rarely ever come across anything that was remotely helpfull - well ok, some self help books and a few autobios by survivors. Therapists? Please, don't take me down that road........

But this here, MS, this is different - MS isn't like all the other crap that we tried to make fit to us in hopes of getting well - MS works, MS works, MS works..........honest to God, man, MS works.

Don't quit now that you have finally found what it is you've been needing all along.

We're here for you and we'll stand with you 'till such time as you get your feet under you again - you have my survivors oath on that.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#274180 - 02/06/09 12:09 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
lars3229 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Iowa
SIDUDE, welcome to MS, and welcome to the one place you will find no one judging you, regardless of how messed up you might be (ask me, I can testify to that one! :D)

Seriously, you are hurting, but you have found a great place to heal, to be part of a unique brotherhood dedicated to helping each other on this ugly road we call recovery. It's not easy, but the men here, you will find, won't judge, won't tell you what to do and won't look down on you when you make a mistake. Quite the opposite, actually. smile

As for impacting anyone's healing in a negative way, for me at least, hearing other people's struggles gives me hope and reminds me that I am SOOOOO not alone in this. Others feel the same way as I do, have the same struggles, and are headed down the same tough roads.

So, if you ever need to talk, vent or unload, keep posting. It'll do wonders for ya just to hear there are men just like you all over this world. It's comforting, trust me.

Peace,

lars


_________________________
You may trod me
in the very dirt
But still,
like dust,
I'll rise.

-Maya Angelou

"I quite often remember to forget these sorts of things."
-Winnie the Pooh, The Tigger Movie

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#274181 - 02/06/09 12:10 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

SIDUDE

Welcome to our place of healing and recovery. Self help --gotta luv it-- I had run wild looking for answers in this space for 20+ years, to no avail! Until I began connecting with communities of like minded/wounded people I was doomed and nothing was going to help me to heal. You have found a great place of the like-wounded, stick around and take what you need and give what you have to give...

The more of us there are in the community the more we have to offer to those still suffering alone, and all to often in silence. I pray that as we heal the word will spread and there will be less and less who live in isolation as long as I did.

Hugs from the north-western edge of the Great Plains.

Love, Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#274185 - 02/06/09 01:04 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: wes-b]
St3v3n Offline


Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 102
SIDUDE,

Let me welcome you to MS also, i am glad you found us in your time of need. Just like the brothers above have stated, this is a great place where you'll find understanding, recognition and support, i know i have. I live a very isolated existence and before i found MS i could not share any of the stuff inside my head because i was too emberassed to do it, i have learned that many men here go through the same thing, MS is an eye-opener and it has helped me greatly in opening up and it's been very beneficial to my therapy too.

I have taken some huge steps forward since i came here a little over two months ago now and i am getting deeper into the root of my problems, it's a tough battle and it really freaking hurts but i know i can reach out to people who care and understand so i hope you'll take this advise at heart
Originally Posted By: wes-b
stick around and take what you need and give what you have to give...

Take care brother,

Stephan


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#274186 - 02/06/09 01:05 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: wes-b]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks so much Gentlemen, it is inspiring to know that others have made headway, my situation is a bit more complex.

I have actively pursued recovery for many years, I spent 12 years in a 12 step program for substance abuse, which I believe was really all related to sexual identity issues that I had struggled with since childhood. I did get sober from that experience which put one demon on hold. I also found SA or Survivors Anonymous during that period but found no men involved in the program, and the meetings were to far from my home making it impossible for me to commit to it on an ongoing basis.

I also was physically abused as a child, by my older sister; it was very emasculating as a young boy to have to deal with. My sister would routinely call me a faggot and a retard as she beat me and ordered me around. It was not uncommon for her to call me from my room into the living room just to change the channels on the TV for her. It was not a pleasant life, and my parents were powerless to stop her and if I complained to them she just beat me more.

Naturally as a result of all my experiences in the home, I had a healthy fear of confrontation, this was obvious to the kids on the block and I just got more of the same from them.

I also struggled with Learning disabilities all my life, the fact that my man hood was never in tact I never had a good sense of competition, between the two I am always consider the slacker at everything I do.

So you see this is not a matter of winning or losing to me, I have no pride about that what so ever. I really am just out of steam, and I am weak and sick. I cannot allow myself to suffer any more, and I don’t see many other alternatives. I have been contemplating my death as early as 19yo, and this idea has recurred over and over with more validity and intensity as the years go on. It would be one thing if I had purpose in life, all my life reveals to me every day is how out of place I am and that I am a freak that most people would not leave their kids with.

Sure if I could change things of course I would. I have tried, I do get excited thinking that some new thing is going to save me, but ultimately I go home alone and sleep by myself. You know although I do have sex when I get a chance, I have never had a lover, so I have no idea what it means to sleep in the same bed with someone, how pathetic is that!

I think I deserve a break, my death should be peaceful. I have looked into euthanasia in the Netherlands very seriously, the only issue I have is with the one person who I think cared about me who's heart will be broken and that is my Mom, I would also prefer my Grandmother to pass first so that she does not have to see her daughter suffer, at age 93.

Thanks to this site I have found a counselor in my area I am going to meet with on Saturday so I’ll keep my pain and suffering in check a bit longer, will see how it goes he sounds like a nice guy, hope he has a few tricks up his sleeve




Edited by SIDUDE (02/06/09 01:13 PM)

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#274188 - 02/06/09 01:42 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
SIDUDE,

I've been you, man! I've been in that place where I just couldn't wait for death to claim me The only thing that got me from one day to the next was my conviction that at any moment certainly life would relinquish it's grip on my balls and I would be allowed to die.

Death lived and breathed in my very soul and I exitedly looked forward to it's embrace - knowing that I would soon die were the only times that felt anything remotely akin to happyness.

So why didn't I kill myself? I litteraly did not posess the physical strength to put the rope around my neck.

So I just basically vegetated for a number of years while I waited for my sweet release - a release, need I say, that never came. And the longer I waited and the more pissed off I became. And slowly a fighting spirit started to make itself felt in me

i,m sorrry i can't type anymor right now. Please stick arouns.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#274191 - 02/06/09 01:48 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks so much for your kind words. I does mean alot, I am thankful for the opportuntiy to let all this garabage out at the very least. God help me.....


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#274192 - 02/06/09 01:50 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

SiDude;

you are making some moderately oblique referenced to suicide. I have had thoughts of murdering myself many many times --my therapist used the term murder after my brother attempted suicide-- and was never able to do it; thankfully. I expect that there are a multitude of us here on MS who have seriously considered it and many who have tried...

As I progress in my healing I know that nothing I say or do controls another, unlike my past "magical" beliefs ;-\ Hell, I have had enuf trouble controlling myself over the decades. I have come to see that I have no idea of the grand plan, I just believe that there is one... so I walk along accepting life on life's terms, and at times with wonder and gratitude. It beats the hell out of decades of hating myself and thinking that the world would be better off if I were dead.

My Brother of the wounds, my prayer for you is that each of your todays is better than it's yesterday.

Love, Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#274282 - 02/07/09 03:59 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: wes-b]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
SIDUDE;
Let me also welcome you to MS & to hell too, after all it's where most of us spend our waking moments. But here, my fraternal brother/friend. You will receive compassion, understanding and love. We all have been there, we have all done that, each in our own ways. It sure hurts, it's sure painful and at times it surely does overwhelm us. But if you ever seriously consider suicide, please don't. I had a son who comitted suicide. Why? Because of me? What is there that we just couldn't have talked about? What was there that we couldn't have worked out? But talking or TRUSTING no one means certain failure. I'm soon to be 70yrs old, my deeply buried secrets surfaced last August. I've been in and out of hell ever since. It sure is tough on this old boy. But I'm here, I'm HOME. I am with the only few REAL true friends here. We have bared our very souls to each other, we try and help each one of us along this depressing, painful journey toward recovery. It's rough, it's painful, it's time consuming from us having to lead a "normal" life & having enjoyment. But for me personaly it's the only road that I want to be on. If I fall there is someone to pick me up, to give me conficence that we are going to find our way to the peace and serenity that we all so richly deserve. So stay here, rant, rave, empty out the depths of your soul, I will listen. I often think about our missing brothers who did take that suicide route. From my viewpoint that meant that our sexual abusers had won I just can't have that happen.

Heal well, SIDUDE, and heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#274299 - 02/07/09 09:11 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
sidude, a hearty welcome to a great respite from all your troubles.

yep, i get it....been there too. just dawg tired of it all.

why can't it be over....why not today.....god i'm done...you hear me god?????

my life seemed for so many years to be one and the same endless day. my back to the future, ever vigilant, ever ready to engage my magic armour to deflect the bullets of memory which ceaselessly seemed to rain at me from the vanguard of my past.

at some point my strength was not enough to meet the resistance of the past, and as it caught up with me, i was given to tools in which to make peace with it. at some point, with a tremendous amount of work, and process, the hail storm of bullets lessened, and with it, the nagging questions resolved as my iron clad drapery transubstantiated into naked in-no-sense.

when the question goes away the need to find an answer becomes moot.

when the need to find an answer becomes moot, then the dissonance dissolves, and ceases to regenerate more questions.

don't give up yet. don't give up because you can't see the path out of the forest because of the density of the trees.

you will find you way. you found your way here, not by accident, but by occident. and the same sun that sets over the horizon of male survivor as a beacon of light and hope to each of us who share the tragic circumstance of csa, will continue to be a guidepost leading you out of this dark night and into a new day.

'why stand staring at what has gone before? don't get lost in things of the past....i, says he, will begin something new....it's beginning already....haven't you heard?'
micah 4:8
acts 1:10

stay here and be with us. there is another clearing just up ahead.....aren't you a bit curious?

hoping for all the best in your healing and recovery, which you richly deserve,

ron


_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#274389 - 02/07/09 11:54 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
SIDUDE Offline


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: New York
Thanks for your kind words, I always wished I could get better. Has not happened, but maybe I have to many expectations. Saw my counslor today, did not go to well, he is hard of hearing, it presentes unique problems.


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#274397 - 02/08/09 12:59 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: SIDUDE]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Sisude,

I also want to welcome you to M/S.
I too have spent many years in recovery going from one group/ therapist to the next looking for the big fix. Still have not found it yet.And don't think it is out there to be found to be honest with you.
The eight months I have been here have been the best since I first got involved with AA in 1989 only better. Here I have found the place I truely fit. With people who truely understand where I come from,how and what I feel.
Finally I am home. Hope you find yours here too.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#274409 - 02/08/09 02:55 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: michael banks]
jggab Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 53
Loc: California
Well said Mike!

Jon


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#274411 - 02/08/09 03:04 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: jggab]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Well said Michael,

You surely speak for me too. You have said it better than I did.
Heal well my brothers/friends.
Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#274465 - 02/08/09 02:23 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
For me, I had a family where sex was a no-no, repressed, not to be thought of. never discussed and pretty much nonexistant till marriage. The feelings in reflection was this being a family rule, not to be questioned. This was sex in the boy-girl realm. When something had happened to me it was outside of the no-no box. There was no cross referencing of boy-girl sex and boy-boy sex. It was not off limits like with a girl. Just hide. I feel there is a strong link. I also feel that family energies can play a large role, community stuff.


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#278746 - 03/09/09 11:02 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: riveerboy]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
I too "had a family where sex was a no-no, repressed, not to be thought of."
after I was csa there was no one to go to - my father had taken me to the perp's house.

re the opening of this thread

my csa left a pattern of unwanted same sex attraction
put there by the abuse

but sometimes there are urges from within - either the rush after the painful overwhelming abuse I experienced
or the violated part of my sexuality manifests itself
as wanted same sex desire

after masturbation it disapates as I take control

now in ms I have three times talked it through and its power was broken

sexual orientation - hetro

struggling with csa induced sexual disorientation

gradually understanding its process and talking control

Nathan


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#280171 - 03/20/09 01:53 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457


Quote:
im wondering if theres anyone else out there that feels their CSA may have had an impact on them having an attraction to the same sex?



good lord, yes,..it absolutely had an impact...and mine wasn't nearly as bad as some...but i also had other things going on in my childhood to...so it wasn't the only thing that made an impact....but it set up a pattern of thought and those thoughts were reinforced by other circumstances and tah dah...now I'm a sexual misfit....thanks uncle richie...ill aways love you....cough cough.

_________________________
Post Nubilia Pheobus

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#280182 - 03/20/09 03:23 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: brother2none]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Brother,

I wonder about this very same thing since I have been coming to M/S. I seem to be one of the few here that does not struggle with same sex attraction. I wonder what is different is my in my csa issues that spared me from having this issue.
I knew for years after my abuse at the hands of Mr Candale I had an underlining fear that being sexual abused would cause me to become homosexual. But that has left me for some years now.
Sometimes not having the same sex attraction issues makes me question if may abuse was less severe in some or if I truely belong here at M/S.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#280190 - 03/20/09 04:28 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: michael banks]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 300
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Well you were molested so I would say that yeah, you belong. I think attraction to the same sex can be real, it can be something that arises out of anxiety (in my case if I get anxious and I question, I find myself looking at guys and thinking "are they attractive? Do I find them attractive"), or it can just not be a factor. Not everyone struggles with that. I know part of the reason I struggle with it is because I had what was otherwise a very good relationship with my cousin, to the point that even though I realized the CSA was something that wasn't quite right, I couldn't put a finger on it, and everything else we did together was mutually enjoyable, so that had a taint to it. I believe that set up a lot of false beliefs and patterns, as well as altered my behavior in certain situations, and when mixes with other circumstances it can create confusion.

Ken Singer also knows a lot about this stuff. The bottom line is since we all have different brains, we all process and function differently. People don't react the same to everything all the time.


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#280193 - 03/20/09 04:58 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: michael banks]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Oh, my friend Mr Michael Banks - you definitely belong! smile And we are all gratefull to have you and to benefit from your wisdom and your insight. You could not be the inspiration that you are to so many if you were not indeed a survivor.

I think that when it comes to same sex attraction that there are many men here who, as you Mike, don't have that particular issue to deal with, so they never bring it up. And why would they?

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#280218 - 03/20/09 09:46 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: joelRT]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
A definite YES! It has been a large painful part of mu life. I like women, but because of what they did, I have same sex attractions regarding men. Until now I thought I was just a freak that didn't belong anywhere.


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#280267 - 03/21/09 11:13 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Originally Posted By: myshoeisonfire
I guess im wondering if theres anyone else out there that feels their CSA may have had an impact on them having an attraction to the same sex... or somehow had an effect on sexual orientation all together!
I want to place blame on the person who did this to me, but I dont know! im pretty sure i would not have this attraction if it wernt for the CSA
any thoughts?


Up until 4 days ago I would have said without a doubt that I was born bi-sexual and have stronger sexual urges for males. I've been married now for nearly 17 years, and have not had physical sex with a guy since 1982 (but have porn issues for sure). I made my choice...and for lots of good reasons!

But since chatting with others here, I'm now questioning my premise. Is it possible that my early age (11) exposure to hard core porn (including gay), overt sexual discussions by "adults" and my consequent CSA experience caused my SSA? Wow, that shakes my identity foundation for sure...

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#280283 - 03/21/09 12:45 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jim1961]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Undisclosed
Yes yes yes. I am going back and forth in my head with this. I keep coming back to wanting to know what is really me, and what was csa related.

I just want to know.

I am accepting of the truth.

And another thing... I love me anywhichwayhoo.


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#280295 - 03/21/09 02:06 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jim1961]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
hey jim.....and i feel exactly the same way,...this issue is clearly a very complex one, and has me confounded,...below are some thoughts ive been having about SSA's.

...there could be many reasons why people have SSA,...plus there are those out there who want to define our behavior as this or that and we very often never get the chance to define it ourselves...and when we are put in a place where we question our own true sexual identity as kids, some of us end up believing what everyone has been busy telling us...your gay or your this or that.

...sex can feel good even if its with someone of the same sex...thats a tough pill to swallow for some of us, who struggle to find our own identity...if i enjoyed sex with a man, am i gay?...well its not so simple as that...you can enjoy sex with someone of the same sex and not identify as gay or even bisexual...because the physical stimulation can be pleasurable regardless of gender, and if its tied to some emotional need it may not really be an innate attraction, so you might perceive yourself one way or another, and not be expressing your true sexual identity ...im not so sure the psychological profession has this really sorted out,...they are inclined to affirm SSA's rather than figure out where our psychology has gone awry , if it has....perhaps its because they want to oversimplify the behavior, putting us in their predefined boxes. or they are lazy...but regardless we become a product of their definitions, rather than our own.

...what the moral implications are for each of us can be difficult to negotiate, religion is also inclined to define our behavior for us,..that might be good for allot of reasons,...but it can also be bad,...if we are told we evil and so on, because we have these attractions, this causes us a great deal of shame, and if we cant shake the attractions we are left having to divorce our selves of any belief in god or we live our lives with secret desires and our shame increases...i don't have a solution for this other than...maybe we should do some more research and find out what is really going on here....but there is a political movement that is a reaction to social nonacceptance which seeks to validate a behavior that may or may not be problematic for many individuals living with these attractions, and science taking the side against religious views and are looking to push their perspective on us...just as much as the anti-gay movement is.

is sexual orientation really innate like they say?....is the fact that some animals engage in homosexual behavior an indication they are preprogrammed to by genetics? I'm not so sure....animals can learn behavior like we do...they raise their offspring and teach them a variety of behaviors that cannot be genetically defined, it could be just as likely SSA in animals are the result of environmental causes as it is in humans...at one point i kept an aviary full of lovebirds....you can hand raise a lovebird and it will orientate to you...show affection to you and exhibit mating behavior toward you....clearly the bird was not born with an attraction to humans,..the unusual artificial circumstance are what affect its behavior,...assuming that the bird is male..you can place another male bird in the cage...and it will re-orientate to that bird...and try to mate....remove the second bird and put a female in the cage and after some time it will re-orientate to the female and mate successfully...this clearly demonstrates that in this species orientation is not fixed at birth and can change through circumstances and revert to it's true context which is heterosexual...we can see this in many animals...but when you hear about homosexual behavior in animals...they conveniently omit this fact...that sexual orientation in many animals can change and is not innate...or fixed at birth....how many dogs do we have to see humping furniture or stuffed animals before we admit that the behavior is learned....im certain the mechanism for sexual attractions are defined within the genes, and controls our attractions in a general sense, (we can be more or less intensely attracted, for instance)...but what we actually become attracted to specifically, is beyond genetics and is defined within the environment.....case in point...one might have a sexual attraction to man made objects like plastic dolls,...plastic dolls cannot be defined genetically because plastic dolls are a relatively new man made object...genes cannot encode such objects...there are no genes that define man made objects....so this attraction must be learned within the environment and not defined genetically....if this and many other types of attractions cannot be defined genetically..then what is it about gender attractions "only" that must be genetic? I'm not buying it....the same attraction mechanism that is present in someone who is attracted to plastic dolls is present in all of us...and that behavior is clearly learned...so its not a stretch to think SSA's are learned as well....just a thought.





Edited by myboyhoodfears (03/21/09 04:33 PM)
_________________________
Post Nubilia Pheobus

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#280304 - 03/21/09 03:29 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
MBF,

All I can say is "wow!" you took a very complex issue and hit it from all sides! It's going to take a while to digest... I'll respond later if I have anything to add.

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#280369 - 03/22/09 09:55 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jim1961]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Let me add something to the discussion about this topic. This is from my book that will be coming out in a few months.

If I Sexually Responded to a Man Does That Mean I’m Gay? (Or does it just mean that my “equipment” was working properly?

This is a common response to sexual abuse. The abuser often stimulates the victim’s penis, engages him in other body contact, or exposures him to sexually arousing material (pornography), and when as a result the boy has an erection, experiences orgasm or ejaculates, he may believe that his body has betrayed him or he may interpret his sexual response as an indicator that he is homosexual. And if he is gay, this confusion may be similar in its consequences as the heterosexual boy who is abused by a female, as noted above.

While there is no research to support beliefs that sexual abuse can cause homosexuality, many victims believe that this experience, particularly if it is the boy’s first encounter of a sexual nature, results in becoming gay. There are men who identify as homosexual and have a history of sexual abuse. There are many gay men who have never been abused. There are a number of boys who, regardless of sexual abuse history, would have been “naturally” gay or bisexual later on. And there are heterosexual men who can have a history of abuse by a male, as well as those with no such history. There are also heterosexual men who were abused by women: that is, their abuse experience did not affect their sexual orientation.

Sometimes the abuser will use a boy’s fear of being labeled homosexual as a way to make him to go along with the abuse, justify the abuser’s actions, blackmail the youth into further sexual acts or prevent him from disclosing. Many abusers I’ve worked with have told their victims that the erection was “proof” the victim “wanted” the sexual contact, or that his erection was “proof” he was really gay. They also use this as a blackmail tool to scare the boy into thinking that people would know or possibly think he is gay – as if that is worse than being abused. If it is a terrible label for the boy to be told or think he is gay or an abuse victim, what does that make the abuser? One would think that being a child molester is a lot worse than being gay or abused.

Sometimes the victim becomes fixated on penises. Thoughts of performing oral sex on men or boys become the theme of sexual fantasies for some survivors. For those who are truly homosexual this is a natural source of arousal. For the heterosexual male victim of same-sex abuse, the penis may have a different meaning in such recurring fantasies. What we find sexually stimulating can also be termed “erotic”. Many survivors who identify as heterosexual are confused about erotic fantasies that may involve males. While they may have much more frequent arousal to female bodies, the male fantasies may cause feelings of shame and puzzlement. Homosexual men can have opposite-sex erotic thoughts and fantasies as well.

If you are heterosexual, the thought of a woman’s body can be quite stimulating. Because our sexual conditioning may involve a focus on body parts, some men become particularly interested or aroused by breasts, buttocks or legs. Others become attracted to the vagina. Likewise, if you are gay, the arousal to a penis or a man’s body can be stimulating for you. There is no “right” way to be attracted.

Years ago I worked with a man who was obsessed (or “fixated”) by legs, feet and women’s shoes. He reported that his mother used to come home from work and ask him to massage her legs and feet. She moaned as he worked on her legs and said things like, “Oh, you’re so good. That feels great, yes, yes!” He said he remembered often being sexually aroused and during one massage session with her, when he was about eleven, he experienced his first orgasm and ejaculation. He later associated sexual response with women’s legs, feet and shoes. The greatest turn-on for him during sex was to kiss his partner’s feet and massage her legs. He was also a big consumer of pornographic magazines that cater to those attracted to legs, feet and shoes. He concluded that had he not been eroticized to his mother’s legs and feet as a boy, he would have had a more normal sexual attraction to a woman’s body and not be fixated on her legs and feet.


Am I Gay If I Think about Penises a Lot?

Not necessarily. The man described above associated sexual pleasure with his mother’s (and later his partners’) legs, shoes and feet. Similarly, if boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while stimulating the abuser’s penis, or from having his own penis stimulated, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. Our penis can make us feel good, give us a sense of power, and can alleviate boredom.

For the gay survivor, the association of the abuser with the arousal and attraction of the male body, a source of otherwise healthy homosexual pleasure may be tainted. The gay survivor may have ambivalent feelings towards penises as a result.

When the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing and even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. You may hate your penis because it “betrayed” you by becoming erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, involves his penis in the acts, the result can be that some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, pain, humiliation, shame and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion you might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and at the same time trying to feel good about your sexuality, and about a part of your body that is so central to your sexuality as your penis.

Many survivors report a desire or temptation to look at the groins of other men, or at their exposed penises in situations like a changing room in school, gym, or at a swimming pool. It is natural for boys and men to be curious about the penises of other guys, and no amount of reassurance that size doesn’t matter seems to lessen this curiosity. Though some heterosexual men may find it difficult to admit, there is probably not a man around who has never sneaked a peek at another man’s penis at a line of urinals or in a locker room.

For survivors, however, the penis may also be a symbol of the harm they have suffered. You may think, for example, that your penis is what “attracted” the abuser; this is often why some survivors, both teens and adults, report feelings of wishing they were not boys, or of wishing they didn’t have a penis.

The sexual parts of other males can also arouse feelings of discomfort and threat in you: that is, you are looking at other men not because you desire them, but because you are on alert for signs of possible arousal, which for you would be a danger signal. But notice once again how, when you experience these feelings, you are in fact also re-experiencing the control that the abuser had over you. The abuser’s penis was a powerful source and symbol of so much of what was happening to you as a boy. Now, even though the abuse has ended and you no longer need fear harm from the abuser, these old defense mechanisms are still active. What the abuser did years ago still has the power to influence how you think and behave.

One important consideration if you are sexual with other men, but you identify as heterosexual, is to look at why you desire to act sexually with them. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping – on an unconscious level – that this time you will not be the helpless victim.

One example of this is familiar with those who know or work with abused women. How many women in abusive relationships end their relationship, but then go back to the abusing partner or wind up with another man who turns out to be abusive as well? On some unconscious level these women may be hoping that “this time it will be different”. This way of thinking leaves them in a situation where they find themselves in a repeating cycle of bad or abusive relationships.

It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that behaving in this way would bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have had in your life at that time. Or you may have learned that by giving in, you would not be beaten or hurt more.

Again, look at all these situations and you can see the continuing control of the abuser. The abuse is over, and perhaps the abuser is gone as well, but the emotional responses you learned as an abused boy are likely still with you.


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#280400 - 03/22/09 07:10 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
.


Edited by TJ jeff (06/22/13 01:57 PM)
Edit Reason: removed at authors request

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#280415 - 03/22/09 10:04 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: bardo213]
Bruce1000 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 11
Loc: United States

I have recently joined this website and am greatfull for all the support and information. It never entered my mind that I might have been born GAY and that is why even after being sexually abused or not I would have been gay. I lead a very sheltered life till College. Didn't even know there was a word for what I was feeling. I am a bit confused about how GOD feel about all this, but like everything else I've experienced I will get through it.

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#281283 - 03/29/09 11:25 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Bruce1000]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Ken,
So much has been written about men who "were born gay"
I do not want to enter into a debate as to weather this is so or not just to say I recognise it is a widley accepted point of view amongst prychologists and it is affirmed by many gay men.

What I find tiresome, what used to make me defensive,
is the uncharatable, unwillingnes to give such affirmation to hetro men who experienced csa.

Again, I beg you,
I plead with you to release we who are hetro from the bondage of being labeled gay because a man aroused us in an act of csa.
WE were not born homosexual.
WE exist.
It hard enough working through csa without our therapists being unwilling it conceed that maybe
just maybe
hetro's exist
who have unwanted and uninvited same sex attraction put there solely in the act or acts of csa.

When I was able to see it in this light I understood myself and am able to move on.

Please end the torement of gays
I am sick of being asked by some gays "are you gay?"
"are you in denial?
How was I supposed to feel when I had but didn't know
I had csa induced ssa
concurrently with a fear of another man's penis
from forced sexual acts in csa?

How was I supposed to respond to "are you gay?"
which in my mind meant
do you have sexual desire toward gay men which you are suppressing and don't you secreatly want sex with me?"

When I now see
I was not supressing gay feelings
but the trauma of csa
but csa has both pain
and pleasure set off automatically without my concent

I - listen please - I
was NOT born a homosexual

When I was raped unwanted uninvited ssa was implanted
against my will
and contrary to my creator's plan.

You are writing a book
please, please please recognise our existance
please

My life and my recovery would have progressed so sooner
had I understood myself earlier.

You know what?

I have never condemned a gay man

but there are countless times gay men have sought to condemn me.
label me,
restrict my choices,
violate my beliefs,
embarrass me in front of others,

so please

if for no other reason than the preservation of intellectual
freedom and the challenge to subject current psychological accepted theory to new observations which include a Christian or Jewish or Muslem perspectives rather than limiting psychology to
a discipline based solely on secular humanism and evolution

please

recognise that we who were born hetro
who as a result of csa have unwanted uninvited same sex attraction

and please
release us to find and apply restorative steps

because quite frankly its complex enough
without the frustration of friends and relatives in denial
on one hand
without our psychologists and theropists denying us the posability of restoration and healing.

I certainly recognise simplistic responses don't work.

although significant keys may be amazingly simple
but that's the case in many disciplines.

Nathan 5

PS I wanted to study psychology from a Christian perspective but
my intellectual freedom and my right to explore posabilities from a Christian perspective was denied. I gained my degree in Sociology which granted my intellectual freedom to study my field from a Christian perspectives. As a result I have great respect for my Marxist Lecturers and fellow students.


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#281349 - 03/29/09 10:01 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: nathan555]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I think I've been saying for a long time that same sex attractions or fixation/interest/arousal to penises does NOT make a person gay. Here it is again:
Quote:
Sometimes the victim becomes fixated on penises. Thoughts of performing oral sex on men or boys become the theme of sexual fantasies for some survivors. For those who are truly homosexual this is a natural source of arousal. For the heterosexual male victim of same-sex abuse, the penis may have a different meaning in such recurring fantasies. What we find sexually stimulating can also be termed “erotic”. Many survivors who identify as heterosexual are confused about erotic fantasies that may involve males. While they may have much more frequent arousal to female bodies, the male fantasies may cause feelings of shame and puzzlement. Homosexual men can have opposite-sex erotic thoughts and fantasies as well.


So, aside from saying that some people are born homosexual and some people are born heterosexual, all I am saying is that sexual abuse can affect a person to the point of confusion of what their orientation is. The behaviors that some survivors do, such as seeking out situations with other men although they see themselves as heterosexual DOES NOT mean they are gay. They may well be reacting to the need to take control in a situation that parallels their abuse. Or, they may be putting themselves in a situation to be in control. Or, they may be reenacting to continue being the victim. Or, there may be other reasons that have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

I hope that clarifies what I am saying.


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#281401 - 03/30/09 10:23 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Quote:
"Homosexual men can have opposite-sex erotic thoughts and fantasies as well"



an interesting point...it would seem however that if they have those thoughts and acted out on them, would they be truly gay? even though they may identify as gay?

social pressure to be one or the other has forced many of us...to identify as gay, but we very well may not be...if someone had asked me only 7 years ago if i was gay i would have said yes, and i would have told them i though i was born that way....asking that question now,...the answer today, is not at all the same, ...no i don't think I'm gay...I'm not sure what to think...because the "belief" i am born gay...is someone else's presupposition about my sexuality and not based on facts..and my ability to self assess, and honestly look with some clarity at my childhood has changed my self perceptions...i would gather that my situation 7 years ago is not unique, but if i never took the time to deal with things,..then what would i be saying today? i might continue thinking im one way, but living a lie,...i would think there are a number of people who because of social pressure to identify as one or the other might choose to identify as gay, under false pretenses, because if we have any SSA's at all,(regardless of how strong they are or where they come from) then we are told we are gay...and likewise there are heterosexual who i identify as srt8 for the same social pressure....though they very well may be gay or bi...

the interesting thing is, that no one is telling homosexual men who have erotic fantasies of females that they are secretly heterosexual and they should just accept that and come out and live an affirmed str8 life,...why is that? but yet the gay community seem perfectly at ease with making that assumption of people who have erotic thoughts of men...they will go so far as to to call you a self hating delusional homophobe if you don't bend to their way of thinking...(and yes Ive been called that by gay people)...seems heterosexuals are not the only ones who can be bigoted.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (03/30/09 10:30 AM)
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#281623 - 03/31/09 08:50 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Although we might have only experience with just one gender (or a few incidents/partners of the other gender), we probably have a larger range of attraction/arousal.

So, a person may have no or limited experience with persons of the same gender but have more fantasies with people of the other gender.

The labeling gets confusing and is probably not accurate, particularly when you have the joker in the deck (csa).


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#281636 - 03/31/09 10:24 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
myboyhoodfears
you express my feelings precicely

I just want to be me who I am
and be restored
and become the man God created me to be

not left in the sludge of csa from some veil perp

God restores
He might make us wait whilst building our character

but unlike the psychologists in UK He does not deny His restoration.

because He cares about us.

Nathan

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#281652 - 03/31/09 11:56 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: nathan555]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
unlike the psychologists in UK He does not deny His restoration


nathan i guess you are referring to article that ken posted entitled 'fixing homosexuality', but just to remind everyone reading here that the article is not reporting a blanket agreement or disagreement with the findings. these finding simply stated that a percentage of the therapists who participated in the study are not in agreement with the notion that some people can be cure of their homosexuality. [truthfully i would like to see a similar study done in the other direction: 'fixing heterosexuality' grin ]

as an aside, i think it's important to have articles such as these because they can help us affirm, reaffirm or debunk any conclusions that we may have already reached regarding our sexual identity. for me it's always an open ended question, but i have no reason to induce my determinations around the topic either one way or the other. that is what my recovery journey has given me. i agree with what ken has inferred, that our sexuality is very mercurial and further that it should be honored for the wonderful gift that it is, and that it would be in our best interests to reduce the amount of guilt and shame that seems to get attached to it as a simple concept within itself. it's just unfortunate that we survivors are suffering so deeply with these same questions that every human being, whether abused or not, ultimately will be confronted with in some way shape or form during their lifetime.

thanks for reading,

ron

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#281914 - 04/02/09 08:38 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

I would consider myself hetero with ssa.
I guess that means my choice is to live a hetero life with my wife. I have remained faithful to her for 25 years of marriage.
My sexual fantasies I would say are strongly ssa, around 80%.
I said to a survivor friend that I reckon this is because a sexual relationship with guys appears to me to be more free of hassals.
He noted that all my same sex encounters were casual and that long term gay relationship also will have relationship issues much the same as hetero ones.
In processing this thought I think he may be right, but my ssa fantasies continue to remain strong.

Jethro


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#281922 - 04/02/09 09:50 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jethro8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
long term gay relationship also will have relationship issues much the same as hetero ones


considering the statistics for failed heterosexual marriages, it makes me wonder what is the point of a discussion of the subject in terms of greater value/lesser value.

the general implication that hetero relationships in general are esteemed healthier feels like a subtle form of bigotry and for people who communicate their disdain for gay relationships the unspoken subtext seems to be: 'at least i'm not the sicko you are'.

that's what i see when i look into the heart of the topic of beneficial priority of hetero versus homo coupling.

ron

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#281978 - 04/02/09 06:20 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

Hi Ron.

I did not intend to offend and an deeply sorry. My survivor friend was answering a statement i made that i said men understand men better than understanding women and i said a gay marriage would have less relationship prob. I never inferred that gay partners were sickos. Though in the part i thought of myself like that i an now more enlightened and becoming and am more comfortable with my ssa. I am accepting of gay guys , man i have two cousins and had a lot of friends who are gay.
I an sorry Ron.

Jethro

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#281996 - 04/02/09 09:31 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jethro8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
egads jethro! i never thought you were saying anything derogatory. i didn't think for a minute that you were saying anyone was a sicko. i was just stating what is the head chatter of those who look down their noses at gay relationships as being inferior to hetero ones.

i should be the one apologizing to you, i am sorry i was not clearer.

i hope nothing comes between our friendship,

ron

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#282003 - 04/02/09 10:25 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Quote:
truthfully i would like to see a similar study done in the other direction: 'fixing heterosexuality'


i think its well established that heterosexuality it evolutionary purposeful, if people did not breed we would not survive as a species....so this statement is silly...the question, "why are some people not inclined to find attractions that facilitate breeding?" would seem an obvious thing to ask since the very large majority do establish these attractions to some degree...if exclusive homosexuals could have children within the confines of biology then the question is moot...unless I'm missing something that cannot happen...so the question is biologically relevant.,,right? and then this would lead to the next obvious question "can homosexuals be retrained to be heterosexual or "fixed" as it were, to bring them to a a state that facilitates breeding?" would also seem biologically relevant.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (04/02/09 10:33 PM)
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#282005 - 04/02/09 10:38 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
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Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
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#282012 - 04/02/09 11:28 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
i read through the thread,...what about heterosexual marriage success rates?...i don't see that as relevant,..they are completely sociologically influenced...and vary dramatically from culture to culture. the question "fixing homosexuality?" is relevant on a biological level only, which is the point of my earlier post. "fixing heterosexuality? on the other hand is a matter of fixing society's perceptions of marriage, provided we are really asking why heterosexual marriages are not successful in this particular society. but if we are asking if heterosexual attractions in general have a biological purpose then the answer is already established as "yes".



Edited by myboyhoodfears (04/02/09 11:40 PM)
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#282013 - 04/02/09 11:28 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

Hi Ron,

All is forgiven. We have cleared that and now move on.
In my post i was rationalising why, if i chose to live hetero married to my wife, do i have stronger ssa in my fantasies.
Another point i could add to it is that in my acting out, my first 10+ sexual encounters include my csa plus casual sex with males That would probably establish a pattern.
Just processing stuff.

Jethro


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#282021 - 04/02/09 11:57 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jethro8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
if i chose to live hetero married to my wife, do i have stronger ssa in my fantasies.


well that's another story.

why do we see sexual magnetism as a deal breaker? is it not possible to merely make a choice in a partner [ ie wife or significant other], and be loyal to the committment, to that choice, yet still find other options attractive without recrimination?

yes it has been said that 'sinning' in the heart is the same as performing the act in real life?

ok, jesus. but at least give credit for choosing to remain faithful physically. i mean after all, if you were not jesus, you'd be in the same boat as we are.

...btw, you know i love you.....noogies to jesus

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#282056 - 04/03/09 05:36 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

Ron,

You cracked me up.

Maybe now I can ponder why my favourite colour is blue and I don't like pink. lol

Our friendship is flourishing

Jethro


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#282080 - 04/03/09 10:10 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/31/03
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Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
heterosexual attractions in general have a biological purpose then the answer is already established as "yes".


i can certainly agree with that statement dan. but it seems to me that your arguments around it rest on many prior assumptions which are really based more in conjecture than substance.

not everyone shares the opinion that sex is only for purposes of population. i know i don't, so that statement is true.

i guess i am more concerned as to why this is something that you feel compelled to convince. not trying to be argumentative, but do you perhaps feel threatened by the idea that people don't fit into nice neat little boxes?

ron

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#282086 - 04/03/09 11:05 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myshoeisonfire]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

The fact that this thread has reached page 7 pages says one thing for sure. Whether homosexual, heterosexual or shades of each. As men we are sexual beings.
I haven't done biology for decades but isn't testosterone the hormone for sex drive, and men have ten times the amount as women.
On a female survivors site I wonder if the topic would initiate even seven responses let alone seven pages.
Is frigidity a common response for females.
If a man was castrated physically or chemically would he no longer have "compelling" sexual identity issues.
I have taken it back to the basic level, hormonal, removing the genetic or social factors to get some thought because reading thru this thread my mind was overwhelmed.

Jethro


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#282091 - 04/03/09 12:14 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Jethro8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
testosterone the hormone for sex drive, and men have ten times the amount as women.
yea something like that, but there we go again, making black and white statements! it's so hard not to do! shocked i have a female friend who i have known for over 50 years! yes we grew up as next door neighbors. she has a very manly appearance. what did she do to make that happen? nothing. it was her genetic gift.

i liked the pink and blue you mentioned jeff.....now that sounds like a thesis worthy of extrapolation. crazy

ron laugh

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#282117 - 04/03/09 03:43 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29
Ron,

I smashed those monuments of my black and white upbringing but alas no matter how much I sweep, there is still traces of dust in the crevices. I'm slowly learning, you are teaching me well. Be patient I'm a high school drop out you know.

So, not thinking black and white. On the topic of csa effects on sexual identity I see six billion plus people all infinitely unique. With this thought I am awestruck, what can I say!

Jeff





Edited by Jethro8 (04/03/09 04:07 PM)
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#282130 - 04/03/09 06:24 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
"
Quote:
but do you perhaps feel threatened by the idea that people don't fit into nice neat little boxes?
"

no not at all, lol....i certainly don't fit in any neat little box.

i was only responding to "fixing heterosexuality" which i thought was a funny but absurd statement...im only really referring to the biological purposes of attractions in a general sense, which really is a separate issue than ones personal choice to engage in sexual behavior to avoid having children.

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#282168 - 04/03/09 11:37 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1099
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
My sister and I talked for two hours on the phone about our pasts (we grew up with many of the same family issues). We shared many secrets.

She knew me better in many ways than I knew myself as a teenager because I was drugged up so much, and can't remember. She was well aware of my drug abuse, suicidal thoughts and my "coming out" as gay at age 19.

I told her that due to this site and discussions with T, I was questioning my belief that I was born bisexual and that maybe the porn/CSA caused it. Her reaction was, of course not you are straight for sure! I was surprised by her answer. It was very interesting to get her perspective.

Jim

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#282172 - 04/04/09 12:43 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Bruce1000 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 11
Loc: United States
What is CSA?
What is SSA?



Edited by Bruce1000 (04/04/09 12:45 AM)
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Our years are as the falling leaves-we live we love we dream, and then we go. But somehow we keep hoping don't we that our dreams come true on that Brighter Day.
.........Opening to old radio serial BRUGHT DAY (1948-1956)

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#282174 - 04/04/09 12:46 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Bruce1000]
joelRT Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
CSA = Childhood Sexual Abuse
SA = Sexual Abuse
SSA = Same Sex Attraction

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#282197 - 04/04/09 09:05 AM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Sans Logos Offline
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Registered: 05/31/03
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ok. i was following your idea more as a train of thought that was being carried over from other discussions. perhaps i am mistaken.

at any rate, it was feeling to me as if you were implying superiority of heterosexual attraction and its subsequent effect, pregnancy [as you state 'having children'], as the evidence for such a conclusion. and further that in following this line of thinking, attempting to create a case against homosexuality by divine design.

it could very well be true for you or other individuals as an apriori claim for your own life, i just needed for my own clarification to know that people are not attempting to induce absolute conclusions about this topic and publicizing them as 'truth' for public consumption here.

so many people are already traumatized by the effects of csa without having yet another armchair etiologist's opinion complicating their own personal path to recovery. if i am incorrect on this, please accept my apology. i don't mind being wrong if it helps to clarify the discussion in question.

i think that it is important that people who are struggling with a sense of moral condemnation of their sexual attractions find a qualified mental health professional to engage a conversation about this it, and inhibit the tendency to solve such things on their own with their limited scope of knowledge and understanding of the topic.

the past decades of research have established for us to today that this is not a 'one size fits all' issue. my own personal stake in this topic is the concern for the mental health of all people who like myself have suffered the condemnation of a culture that wants to suppress its non-heterosexual shadow at the expense of valued lives, many of them young teens just starting to come to terms with their own sexuality. as a web community that supports recovery from the ill effects of sexual predatory behavior and its subsequent trauma, we have a responsibility to send clear messages that no matter where one finds themselves in the spectrum of sexual attraction, they are loved and valued and accepted as they are, without condition or apology. would that i had heard that message many many years ago, but our world was not ready to speak it until these days.

thanks for listening to my point of view,

ron

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#282231 - 04/04/09 01:30 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Quote:
at any rate, it was feeling to me as if you were implying superiority of heterosexual attraction and its subsequent effect, pregnancy [as you state 'having children'], as the evidence for such a conclusion. and further that in following this line of thinking, attempting to create a case against homosexuality by divine design.


first, i do not refer to "devine design" in any of my posts...you are making this connection yourself...not i.

nevertheless i see no valid argument otherwise....present one and ill give it my most thoughtful consideration...but i must make a VERY clear distinction here...this is not about the moral issue for me...no where have i suggested that homosexuality is immoral...im quite aware of the guilt and shame this causes many...im only concerned about its origin as its the only relevant question,...but it appears to be heresy to ask it, if the possibility exists that the answers may not affirm homosexuality...take those "social non-acceptance" lens off and things get a little clearer(which i admit is not easy to do even for myself, which is apparent in some of my posts)...if social non-acceptance was not looming over this issue like a tyrant, we would still ask these questions regardless, but we wouldn't be inclined to associate them with an attack on ones morality and self-perceptions, which is what happens when one hears the word "dis***ered" and homosexuality in the same sentence, as if it were some horrible crime to speak it (or even to have it), which to me seems ironic in the scope of things,...as far as its the relevance to CSA recovery? i think the question needs to be asked so that we might know whether or not the direction people are being told to go is indeed the correct one and not just a reaction to societal pressure to cram people in one of those "neat little boxes" whether they actually fit in there or not.







Edited by myboyhoodfears (04/04/09 03:45 PM)
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#282251 - 04/04/09 06:04 PM Re: CSA effects on sexual identity [Re: myboyhoodfears]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Please review the guidelines for posting in this forum:

Trigger Issues

* Cultural and religious views about the origin or nature of one's sexual orientation
* The negative ways sexual minorities (gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgendered folks) are portrayed, perceived and treated by others in society or by the law
* Dealing with feelings about our own or other's sexual orientation

Trigger Issues/Open Discussion Forum

Posts which trigger others cause conflicts which often divert us from our goal of discussing and sharing our recovery issues. They often cause others to react and sometimes respond in emotional ways which creates further controversy. Controversy can cause many of us, because our trauma experiences, to feel unsafe. Some who come here prefer not to deal with these controversies or potential triggers.

The ODF is for the discussion of any issues that may be triggering to others. It also is a place where frank discussion and pointed remarks reflecting disagreements with others would be allowed. We ask such posts be made in this forum. By posting trigger issues in a separate room in which we are forewarned and enter “at our own risk” it will be easier for us to freely choose to deal with it or not.

We will move to this forum discussions from other forums which, in our opinion, might be triggering. The Open Discussion Forum is for posting comments that might not be appropriate for other forums but the rules about threats or offensive posts are still in effect there.





Edited by ModTeam (04/04/09 07:28 PM)
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