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#272231 - 01/21/09 08:08 PM What happens when God isn't enough?
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't ever have the expected reaction to all the things in the Bible. Jesus died for my sins and I can accept that point blank... pretty simple concept to me but it's like okay what else? What happened to Jesus and what was done to Him doesn't fill me with hope or faith. I don't see how what He went through trumps the things that I went through and have to go through now. Nobody knows what to tell me other than the text book answers and those answers don't have any influence over me.

Since God don't seem to appear in my life I get all of the residual effects, the judgement of people, the destruction of what little faith I do have, blame, questioning my salvation, etc. I don't care much about heaven or rewards and the other beni's and not really scared of hell. Heaven sounds great but if hell's where I get sent after this mess of a life then God's plainly hated me. I already know what it means by weeping and nashing of teeth.... where the worm does not die and thirst never quenched. I've spent my whole life separated from God by His choice. I ask all the right questions, at church multiple times a week, study, pray, everything, but in the end I am alone and the torture continues.

I can't say honestly that God's done anything to have me believe in Him, I really should hate Him for my life. I guess I take credit for having any kind of faith too. I was taught that I was evil, God's hate for me, and plenty of other bad stuff. Now all of what is said and what is taught just feeds into that more and more.

Sometimes it's like there are clauses... He'll never leave or forsake me? I make that out to be true only if He was never with me in the first place... otherwise it's a lie. God's not supposed to lie so then I'm just evil. Like there are only so many degrees of separation to find that I am hated and abandoned. I'm sure paying for a number of others sins so where does Jesus really fit within my life? I never get any closer and He just gets further away.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272232 - 01/21/09 08:28 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
usmc
I was painfully sexualy abused at the age of two
I asure you what I am about to say is not religuos platitudes
but how Jesus is healing my catastrophic memories

you may have heard the song "He took my place, a people undesirving"

man from the debths of my heart
Ifelt God giving me permission to hear
"He took my pain"

time and time again I felt my pain and felt He took my pain as He endured His pain

I cried
I creid
and I cried

time and time agaiin as He shows me His pain
I see as the nail pierced His hand
I felt the piercing pain I was subjects to when i was raped
yes I said raped and I was two

you know what came to my mind when my experience of rape surfaced?

I thanked God for the love of my grandmother who looved god with all her heart
I remembered singing in Sunday Schol
"Jesus loves me"

yes me (crying)

shit - me

I understand the pain of men who feel abondoned by God
or who were abused in a Church
(I was once sexually harassed in a church so I undestand shit)

I too have heard empty words from well meaning Christians
well meaning caring Pastors

but man

Jesus suffering was for me
and may I speak out of my pain
Jesus suffered for you

I pray according to Isaiah 61
may He heal your broken heart as He is mine

I am still walking this journey
and you see from my posts I am not perfect
and I work through my shit

but by God's grace
dam it I aint giving up

Nathan 5

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272251 - 01/22/09 01:29 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
1love4christ Offline


Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 46
Loc: ca, usa
I hurt for your pain and confusion. I experience this at times and have had help recently about it. The author in his book called, "The Wounded Heart: Hope for adult victims of childhood sexual abuse," by the name of Dr. Dan B. Allender said it very clearly to bring light to the issue that many suffer from. You my friend are courageous for admitting to your feelings. Trust me when I tell you that many feel the same way but deny their feelings.

"Change is always a process. This truth cannot be over-emphasized. Many abuse victims feel their progress of change is taking too long. The assumption is that if god is involved, then the process will be brief and not too messy. If that were true, then why did God take forty years to teach moses humility and leadership skills in the sheep fields of Midian? Deep healing, super natural change, may take years of struggle, trial-an-error learning, and growing in strength to make the next significant move of faith. No one ought to judge another's growth timetable.

what surprises can an abused person expect if he or she chooses to cooperate with God's supernatural work? The process involves the surprising route of weakness, brokenness, poverty, and death. these words are apt to alienate, disgust, or frighten the honest person. the man or woman who has been abused already feels weak and broken (powerless), poor (powerless and betrayed), and dead (powerless, betrayed , and ambivalent). The thought that the cure is worse than the disease, or at least as bad make the prospect of a spiritual route seem totally undersirable." Pg 190

"what if trusting god and surrendering our all to him seems like the mockery to end all mockeries? First we need to consider again what is and is not biblical trust. most assume that trust is quiet, serene, selfless dependence on god. though there is an element of truth to that view of trust, more ofthen than not usch serene faith is a byproduct of wanting very little from god. it is frighteningly easy to appear trusting when in fact one is simply dead (in denial of the wounds, hunger, or struggle of the heart).

GENUINE TRUST INVOLVES ALLOWING ANOTHER TO MATTER AND HAVE AN IMPACT IN OUR LIVES. FOR THAT REASON, MANY WHO HATE AND DO BATTLE WITH GOD TRUST HIM MORE DEEPLY THAN THOSE WHOSE COMPLACENT FAITH PERMITS AN ABSTRACT AND MOTIONLESS STANCE BEFORE HIM.THOSE WHO TRUST GOD MOST ARE THOSE WHOSE FAITH PERMITS THEM TO RISK WRESTLING WITH HIM OVER THE DEEPEST QUESTIONS OF LIFE. GOOD HEARTS ARE CAPTURED IN A DIVINE WRESTLING MATCH; FEARFUL DOUBTING HEARTS STAY CLEAR OF THE MAT.

the wonder of the gospel that ultimately captures the wounded heart is that in spite of our hatred and rebellion toward god, christ died for us, and HIS SPIRIT PURSUES US TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH. HIS FAITHFUL PURSUIT IS NOT STYMIED BY OUR HATRED OR AMBIVALENCE, OUR LACK OF FAITH, OR OUR REFUSAL TO TRUST. IN FACT, HIS STEPS DOGGEDLY PURSUE EVEN WHEN WE ASSUME WE ARE MOST INCAPABLE OF RECIEVING OR EVEN DISIRING GRACE. at times his penchant to pursue in the present invokes even greater hatred than did his silence or inactivity in the midst of the past abuse: "why won't he just leave me alone?" pg. 191-192

I share this with you to let you know this, jesus still loves you and accepts you. he honors your pain and is grateful that you bring it to the light by admitting to it and acknowledging that something is wrong. there is people who can't even do this and remain in the dark. i've been sexually abused and knew everyone on earth let me down, but i gave god a chance even after blaming him. I knew he was just full of love and that by blaming him, i could have someone to point the finger, trust somebody who could really understand my feelings. and i say the same to you, go to jesus in your brokenness and hatefulness.

your post touched me and reminds me of myself. thanks for sharing, i hope we can rejoice and wipe away the tears.



Edited by 1love4christ (01/22/09 01:30 AM)
_________________________
nestor

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#272259 - 01/22/09 02:26 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: 1love4christ]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't have reason to trust or believe that God has any love for me. I don't hate God, if anything He hates me for what reason nobody seems to know. I am sentenced to be raped and tortured multiple times a week for as long as I still breathe, not figuratively. Somehow I'm supposed to interpret that as God's love?

Jesus' sacrifice says nothing to what I have to go through... that is a big part of the problem. I'm supposed to be guilt ridden and thankful for how degrading and extreme his suffering was and I'm not. What he went through doesn't seem so much to me especially with Him being God, it being voluntary, and it only lasting for as long as it did for Him. He had a whole lot more than I ever did and He only sampled a life like mine.

A lot of what you quote from that book involves blame, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about. There is nothing that I have done to make or keep me in the hands of those who hurt me.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272262 - 01/22/09 06:25 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
usmc
Sorry you are being raped - being raped - have you considered changing your situation - escaping

I am deeply sorry I triggered feeling of guilt.

shit no

be assured nothing was meant to reflect guilt

just His identification with our suffering
because He unconditionally loves us who were abused due to no fault of our own

I am truely sorry

Nathan


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#272280 - 01/22/09 11:03 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Brother usmc97...

It is my heartfelt desire that you find your path the peace, harmony, serenity and joy. I can relate to your quandary and the anger and frustration that I see in your posts.

Your presence and posting is a support to me.

May each day give you another piece of the puzzle that is life.

your brother, Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#272380 - 01/23/09 11:21 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: wes-b]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Why does it get assumed that I am angry or in denial of something? I am not angry at God, I am confused. The one thing that is supposed to be flawless seems to do nothing but counter my existance and license people to blame me. The Bible is not supposed to be a weopon to make me feel worse and worse.

It's ment to give hope and show how God loves you. It don't do that with me and I don't understand why other than the things that I was taught. None of the things I was taught are supposed to be true but everything seems to support them. How can God be on their side? I spend everyday trying to understand.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272382 - 01/23/09 11:30 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
The Bible tells how like ought to be
but shit happens
the world deals out many blows

As I continue in my Christian journey
I get the condemnation and intimidation out of my head
it came from people messing with my head
putting me on THEIR guilt trip.

When God shows me a sin I confess and He releases me from its hold on me

I find this liberating

When I feel traped, condemned, etc I am seeing more and more it's not God or the Bible at all

man read my stuff
I am a broken man
flawed
doing stuff I ought not

but I am becoming free

5 is the Biblical number for grace

man I am depending on God's grace
I recommend it

I do not blame you

I release you to live life

and enjoy God's presence

Nathan

hey sometime I do hide in the dark

He comes and gently leads me out into the light
I do not fear with Him

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272437 - 01/24/09 01:58 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't get love, grace, or mercy in what I have to go through. There's no purpose in what happened to me or what happens to me. The stuff that I go through is ungodly by every means, I don't stop getting hurt and nobody understands what it is or how to stop it.

Being considered a Christian, I'm supposed to see God in some form of a good light. Truth is I don't... I just don't get any comfort from God. It makes it out for folks to just question if I am "saved".

Jesus went through a lot but he didn't go through the torture and degradation that I did and He also didn't go through what I have to go through now. That's supposed to be some form of blasphemy. That's where things are screwed, I only see His purpose of conquering sin and redemption through him. God's sacrifice of Jesus gives me very little if anything. Sin's taken care of but what of everything else?

I believe in God because I want to, I really don't have a reason to believe except for that one of these days He'd turn out to be who He says He is.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272446 - 01/24/09 08:51 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
The god I learned about as a child is a lie. He does not exist and never did. The God I know today is quit a different story.

What I'm suggesting usmc is that maybe it is time to scrap everything you know about God and start over.

Just a thought.

Love ya
Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#272447 - 01/24/09 08:57 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: Derdlecar]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
In my struggles I had an amazing experience in a long chat in a pub
God striped down my religiosity and I saw it
God is love
that's it
might sound simple but I am only alive because of His love
not keeping religous rules or games
Nathan 5


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#272463 - 01/24/09 12:22 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Everthing that I was taught then is reinforced over and over by what is taught now. It does not matter what I want to believe. I've already started over from scratch or else I would not be in a church period. Yes, I was hurt by a priest but that priest is not the worst of those who get to torture me. Where would any of you be if what happened to you then was happening now, and you still couldn't do anything about it?

I understand God's love of you and everyone else but there is none for me. What has God done in my life except for "allowing" me to be destroyed? How does God love me? I search daily and there is never any evidence. I don't believe in religion, I believe it is a relationship thing but it's like He does not want anything to do with me but to see me in pain and confusion, that's if He even acknowledges my existance in the first place.

"He died on the cross........ " just doesn't do anything for me. So it is me who is evil and wicked.... it all follows what I was taught, it's not something someone wants to believe.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272656 - 01/26/09 12:18 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
thenewsboy Offline


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 4
Loc: NE, USA

All I can say, is that I am greatly sorry that people have misused and abused you with the Bible.

There are alot of people whose Love and Faith in God is actually very shallow, and among them are those who haven't resolved there own abuse issues. I feel that many of these people have only heard about God and have not experienced the real and unforgettable love of this enemorous Being who is the very essence of Love, for He is Love. In all the demensions that we have need of.

Watch here for more of my Story, Peace be with you, one Catholic to Another.



_________________________
Jonathan Freedman

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#272657 - 01/26/09 12:30 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: thenewsboy]
thenewsboy Offline


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 4
Loc: NE, USA
I simply want to walk along side of you on this Journey. Without judgement, without making presumptous statements; But I have a listening ear and a big heart, I have heard the cries of your heart, I been there and it can be sorted out, laid to rest and you can get on with your life. Your life will unfold as a Rose blossom and the thoughts and pains will become a distant and fading memory, and you will be enable to say, "All is well with my soul."

Will you let me walk with you on this journey of healing?

Thanks for listening.

thenewsboy


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#272658 - 01/26/09 12:53 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: thenewsboy]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I don't believe I have shallow faith. I don't think me having any faith makes any sense but I do have a little. I was hurt way worse before that priest ever got ahold of me. He just sealed the coffin by all that he did and all that he taught. I went to him for help and after all that he did he's listed as a martyr for you guys.

I'm by far no Catholic, that was a long time ago that I was ever considered one of them. I'd hate to think that anyone would think I have any connection. I don't believe anything that Catholics believe with any similarity.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272663 - 01/26/09 01:42 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
When I asked Jesus to come into my heart I gave Him my clean side of my heart divided by a wall of shame and pain.
I took down that wall
and behind it was utter darkness of my csa and its ugly effects
it was so dark and full of decay I couldn't see
well I discovered / saw the disgusting abuse I suffered at the age of 2 ! I went through my dark valley I acted out I ranted, I messed up my head and said and did things I regret
in my darkness my only hope was that God exists and that I want to be the man He made me to be. for a while I hated the thing I'd become. no, not hated - despaired, resigned myself whatever
some things feel good and was I ever giving consideration to them
I asked, pleaded with Jesus - come into my dark side
with a wave to cleanse and restore

I continued my journey
no idea where it would lead

in my darkest hour I had the chat I mentioned above

finally at church on Sunday night Jesus entered my whole heart and cleansed it
its beating again

Man - it hasn't happened to you - ask
just ask and ask - whatever it takes

ask Jesus to come into your darkest part of your heart
Jesus loves you there is love for you
demand it
refuse to give up

one thought -- I had barriers to hide my csa
only when I pulled them down could He come in
He knocks at our door
mine were a steel grill, a quarter inch thick steel wall,
a brick wall and the shame and pain wall - it was massive

hey - its safe to let Jesus in.

just sharing my struggle from darkness to light

and I am nowhere perfect

walking the journey

Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272670 - 01/26/09 04:12 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
thenewsboy Offline


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 4
Loc: NE, USA
I liked how you expressed in words your hope, your fears and the journey to wholeness.

_________________________
Jonathan Freedman

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#272672 - 01/26/09 04:18 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
thenewsboy Offline


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 4
Loc: NE, USA
regardless can I walk with you?

_________________________
Jonathan Freedman

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#272673 - 01/26/09 04:22 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: thenewsboy]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
It was the hardest thing I did in my life
I thank God He brought me here
for guys who were here for me to walk me through my darkest days
for those who ensured I didn't use religion as a crutch or excuse
and Jesus Christ who delivered me in His timing I earnestly pray for those still waiting.
Nathan


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#272675 - 01/26/09 04:44 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
tony2c Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 37
Loc: ny
nathan
I am amazed at the caliber of man I have become considering where I started, It had to have been God shadowing me, encouraging me, giving me strenghth every step of the way. His best work is done in fractured hearts

_________________________
we are so accustomed to adopting masks before others, that we wind up being unable to recognize ourselves

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#272728 - 01/26/09 12:38 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: Derdlecar]
tony2c Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 37
Loc: ny
usmc97

as a victim of incest, my father screwed alot of things up for me. especially with respect to God the Father. I wanted nothing to do with anything labeled "father" God, priests, even prayers -The Our Father was and at times the most difficult prayer I utter. I met a Father Paul latter on who caught on to "something about me, not being right" he was a God send - he helped tremendously - he told me to try to pray the Our Father for God's sake not my own - i focused my prayer for God. I had something to give him - that no one else could - my prayer - no matter the lack of help from him - I kept giving while forgiving - it made somewhat of a difference for me. yours in crosses

tony

_________________________
we are so accustomed to adopting masks before others, that we wind up being unable to recognize ourselves

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#272742 - 01/26/09 04:17 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: tony2c]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Why don't folks understand me? I've heard all of the great stories of what God has done in people's lives. Hearing more of that just makes me feel worse, might as well be telling me how much more hate He has for me. I'm trying to find how He loves me, I know He loves you and whoever else but what about me? I didn't do anything wrong, I have nothing bad to go back to. None of this comes from my choices in life. I came to Christ just as broken as I have been for years on account of the torment I recieve.

I'm getting raped and tortured and folks don't get that.

I had to recite that prayer and others as I was getting hurt by the priest. Please don't say Catholic things to me.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#272747 - 01/26/09 04:58 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Man - if you are being raped now get the fuck out of there.
You have to find a way of escape.
and report the rapist to the authorities.
God promices a way of escape.
If you have landed in a place with snakes and vipers
they are evil. they are enemies of Christ.He rebukes the snakes and vipers in the Temple.
You need a safe Christian Church. might not be a Cathlic one. sometimes an institution protects its own. the Pope has set an adjenda , a stance against Priests who abuse. Someone might know a Priest or Bishop who cares. Write to the Pope if you have to.

Nathan 5

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

Top
#272748 - 01/26/09 05:22 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: tony2c]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

Have you forgiven yourself for what others inflicted on you as a child. The sin and shame of what happened to you is theirs and not yours. Your freedom is now in your hands and not theirs.

Christ gave his life to free you from your sins.
It is a gift of grace.
Free to you and all who have the faith to just accept it.

What is our sin?
Rejecting the true and only God.

God is love.
He is our father who waits for us to return to him with open arms of love.
No matter what he will love us.
As all fathers do who truely love their children.

Don't allow the lies of abuse to keep you separated from him any longer.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272757 - 01/26/09 06:31 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Mike
please-I am a Christian trusting God as you can see from my posts
but how dare you suggest any of us have to forgive ourselves for the abuse and violation when someone else put shit on me?

I renounce abuse. that is I disown another man's shit.
and the damage he did

I trust God to restore my soul.

When I mess up , when I stuff up in how I respond or what I do to deaden the pain I can find plenty of things to repent of and ask forgiveness for and forgive myself for.

Forgiveness is not the only means of grace

there are many, many spiritual processes before forgiveness
when it comes to recovering from abuse

the sword thrust into my soul needs removing

shit
so many Christians saw the puss and told me to wash it
when the sword causing the abrasion needed to be carefully removed

my wound needs cleaning
it needs God's healing balm

forgiveness might sweaten the room
but it aint going to help me over being abused

sorry mate
hope you can take a Godly rebuke

no wonder so many guys here reject God

when we are hurting please show some compassion



Nathan 5

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#272761 - 01/26/09 06:59 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Nathan,

Alot of survivors and I was one of them.
Blame themselves for what was done to us and carry the guilt and shame that truely belongs to the perp. Alot of us still beat ourselves over things we had no control over.

Grace means a free gift.

Also I am aware that there is alot more to the process of healing then just forgiveness.
But one of the more important ones for me was the necessity to forgive myself For what had happen to me as a child.
To put the responsibility at the foot of those who were truely responsible for the sexual abuse that I suffered.

To free myself from shame and give the shame back to the abuser.
That is what self forgiveness is to me.

I don't mind being rebuked but you should look down at your own hands and see who is really swinging the sword.
I know my fingerprints are not on it.

Does not Paul warn us about our tongues?

To build up and not tear down.

Mike





_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272763 - 01/26/09 07:19 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I have no sin of mine attatched to what was done to me. Nothing that I do now invites me to go through this present torment either. After all that I gather myself in even a hint of being a believer that God would see it as rejection makes God a being that I want nothing to do with. God knows my efforts and if He lay blame on me after all of this hell then I was truly hated by His choice. I don't believe that He would be that way toward me after the life I've been given.


That is the kind of things that came out of that priest's mouth.... somehow it was my fault for what he and others did to me.... that I am sin.... that I am a demon.... that God hated me.... it goes on and on, all backed up by the beliefs of the Catholic church. The Catholic hierarchy does not genuinly care to the point of ridding themselves of men and monsters who hide behind their cloth. They do not come forward with names of the offenders that hide in their ranks. They have shuffled them around since their beginnings. The priest who did to me died a martyr hailed by the Catholic church.

Nothing that I do gives reason for what is done to me. Not unforgiveness, not bitterness, not acceptance of Christ. His death does not prove love for me, I wish that it did but he lived a privelaged life compared to mine. Plus the fact that He's God, it just don't have the same effect which is why I asked the first question.... there has to be something else to say prove His love to someone like me because the text book answers are simply not enough.

Forgiveness is not supposed to be a chore, besides... how can there be forgiveness without true repentance? Not one of those who hurt me have ever come forward. Is one out of 40+ too much to ask? Forgiving the anonymous mass of them while I'm still getting hurt doesn't seem like it's something you could ask of anybody. Jesus was God, He knew all that hurt Him.

What is done to me now people don't seem to have a clue and somehow that is my fault too? I have no place to run, I have no escape. That's why it is hard not to believe that I am hated and all the other things that I was taught about my being. If grace is free then why am I paying for it and it's never given?

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272765 - 01/26/09 08:06 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

The Catholic Church is not God on earth. They are just a group of priviledged people who use God's name in order to profit themselves. They will use all means possible to protect their turf against anybody or anything. And if they have to squash a child or anybody they will to protect themselves so be it.
In fact I see most organized churchs and religions in the same light. I don't see much difference between them and government. They are just their to impose views on people and to extort as much money as possile.

They blamed you for there actions so as to free themselves the responsibility of their behavior. They will never ever accept responsibility for there actions in this lifetime or the next.
If you base your freedom from the abuse you suffered on their owning responsibility or asking for repentance for what they did.
You are dooming yourself to an self imposed hell.

I found forgiveness when I stop demanding justic for the abuse that happened to me as a child. Because sometimes there is no justice to be had. But to learn to thrive inspite of what others have done to us.

For We live in a fallen world.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272769 - 01/26/09 08:49 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Michael

the hardest thing for me to do is to stop demanding
and I mean demanding and demanding justice

Nathan


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#272778 - 01/26/09 10:00 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I do not base my "freedom" on what they feel. I do not have freedom because of them, only them, not me, that has nothing to do with my decisions which is something you do not understand. Your agreeing with them is hurtful, I do not self-impose this stuff upon my head. I didn't then. I don't now.

My biggest issue is not with being tortured and raped in the past, it is that I have to go through it all over again, not "reliving", another thing that you are not understanding along with most others. The only people who seem to have a glimmer of understanding have either been witness to what happens to me or they just don't doubt the depth of what those things are.

I don't need justice I just want them to stop hurting me. I want people to stop blaming me for what they did and are doing to me. I want God to love me like He loves others. To me the "we live in a fallen world" kind of stuff is an excuse for the general population to not have responsibilities. The phrase is true but it is not ment to be an excuse.

Who even on this site was able to forgive as they were being terrorized? If there are any who were able to accomplish that as a child I can guarantee that they are few. It took you and others years after your abuse ended for you to reach what you believe as forgiveness but you impose a different standard on me, I don't even get 48hours.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272781 - 01/26/09 10:17 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

I place no time frame on your or anyone else.
We heal at our own pace.
I offer only facts not excuses as I see them.
Heal well my friend.
You are in my prayers.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272783 - 01/26/09 10:28 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
it's not a fact in saying that I am to blame for then or now by any means

you may mean well but you're words are not helping, in fact they are pretty hurtful about now

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272784 - 01/26/09 10:31 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

At no time have I said you are at fault for anything.
Sorry you took my words that way.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272788 - 01/26/09 10:38 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
You said that I'm dooming myself, that I am hurt because I don't accept God, that unforgiveness keeps me where I'm at and everything else just tells me that you're not understanding what I try to describe. More or less this sounded like everything that's been coming across

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272796 - 01/26/09 11:02 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

What I said is that if we wait till our perps choose to take responsibility or to repent and aplogize for their abuse of us. Before we allow ourselves to heal are we not choosing to remain trapped in our abuse. Because very few perps will ever own or apologize for their actions.

Sorry for using the pronoun you. Did not mean to single you out. Meant things in a general way for all of us in recovery. Not just in your situation. I will be more careful in the future.

I believe recovery is a choice.
We each have to make this decision for ourselves.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272803 - 01/26/09 11:25 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Even the word recovery implies that something has to be in the past. I am not in recovery.

The other part is that healing is not a choice for everyone as you see it. That places unwaranted blame, the best anyone can do is give effort toward that goal. Nobody heals themself. I wouldn't say that the guys on this site are healed or else they would not come here. They are all hurt in their own ways just as you probably are but not everything is measured by your experience, that's projecting.

All I can do is ask for what I need and what I need to know. I have no power to stop what is done to me, I can't even explain it in a way that anybody really understands.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272806 - 01/26/09 11:44 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

We all make our own choices.
Life is about choices whether we choose to make them or not.

Blame is a worthless word to me.
Because it accomplishes nothing.

I choose to live in today. Not in the past or in the future.
If you don't heal yourself then who?
I have not choosen to relive the pain and abuse because I enjoy it.
But because I want to release it's power over my present life.
It has not gone away on it's own accord and never will.

Today we all have a choice to move forward toward wholeness or remain mired in self pity.
This is not a judgement of you Kevin.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272811 - 01/27/09 12:05 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
You were not hurt like I was.
You are not tortured and raped like I am today.
You don't believe me.
You can not understand.

What I spill about how I feel and what I am going through is not self pity, what I go through you can't imagine. There is no choice in what done to me and you don't comprehend that because you have a whole different experience. If I shared what you went through maybe I could relate. You just seem to have no idea and I don't understand why you'd want to add to the hurt. You're blaming everybody for not being like you.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#272814 - 01/27/09 01:26 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Kevin,

Sorry if our conversation has hurt you in anyway.
That was not my intent.
I will stop now.

Take care & Best Wishes

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#272931 - 01/27/09 07:29 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Guys usmc97 has said over and over he is being raped today
like now
like shit
like he needs to go to the Police
like now

man - go now ring go to them

rape is a crime

that's why we have Police

like get out of where you are

report the crime

and ask to be placed somewhere safe

like now

that has to stop

Nathan 5


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#272998 - 01/28/09 11:14 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
Kevin,

I know I relived the events in my past in my mind many times and sometimes still do. Is this part of your stuggle or is someone continuing to abuse you?

Juni

_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

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#273127 - 01/29/09 12:09 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: Juni]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I do not just "relive" and it is not "all in my head" what is done to me. It is what it is, I am raped, tortured and mutilated present day by my perps. I can't explain things for anyone to understand. The more I say, the more disbelief because with any logic it seems impossible to people.

I am certifiably not insane or hyper-irrational. No, I am not possessed, I don't "subcontiously" do things to myself or any of the things anybody seems to expect in order to clarify to themselves for their own understanding. They can not be caught, they can not be stopped. It has seemed beyond anyones knowledge and abilities to know what to do.

In most folks minds it is downgraded to what you have been taught about your experience and others'. It's not my fault that there isn't any book to explain what happens to me and my body aside from Eph 6.

When I ask questions about God I don't ever seem to get an answer that is not text book. Nobody can even tell me how God loves me because the answer given is directed to everybody else and does not mean so much. If someone don't understand that they can give me an answer and I can explain the faults in it as it pertains to my existance. That's where the question came from in giving the post a title. The only chance that I will know is when I am gone from here. He either loved me or hated me, either answer is fine as long as He gives the reason, because I am lost as to why I am punished.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#274563 - 02/09/09 11:32 AM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: thenewsboy]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
me too?
Perhaps we can grow together...lets trust that what we search for in "religion" is all the good things & that Christ takes care of carring the heavy loads that we can't manage alone...Faith of the mustard seed???

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#276692 - 02/22/09 09:22 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: nathan555]
dusty42 Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kentucky
Dusty42 has deleted this message. I know longer feel safe here.



Edited by dusty42 (03/18/09 01:53 PM)
Edit Reason: I no longer feel safe here
_________________________
Pinky: "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."

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#276702 - 02/22/09 11:20 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: dusty42]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I have explained OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!! You make it sound like I am making it all up or that I'm just completely insane!!!!!!! I have included those parts!!!

Read all my damn post and if you still see things the way you do it's not my fault!!! I'm tired of folks like you!!! Do you have to prove what you go through? here especially? HUH?!?!?!?!?!?

I've given all the info I can about the things that I HAVE TO GO THROUGH!! NOT YOU!!!

Police HAVE watched over me, doctors HAVE watched over me, others HAVE watched over me and it don't make a difference as to what they have seen in what happens to me, AGAIN NOT YOU!!! Nothing that I have said about me is made up or twisted.

I AM GETTING RAPED
I AM GETTING TORTURED
I AM GETTING TERRORIZED BY MY PERPS
I AM BEING MUTILATED BY THEIR HANDS

ALL PRESENT DAY, not to your understanding

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#276706 - 02/22/09 11:31 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: usmc97]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Kevin:

Why don't you get a security system, complete with motion detectors, motion-activated lights, security cameras, and perimeter beams? That way if anything happens when you are sleeping, you will know about it. My wife and I have a basic system that covers the doors and windows and there is a motion detector too. It costs us $21.95/month installed for free.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#278663 - 03/08/09 06:03 PM Re: What happens when God isn't enough? [Re: Derdlecar]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Kevin

I have watched your growth over the last several years.. I have seen where you were and where you are now..You may not see the progress but I can.. I have grown to be very fond of you Praying for you often. I know God is in your heart..Even when it seems he cant be found..but, I remember when we could not find Kevin.
God Bless you my friend..
Gary

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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