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#269283 - 12/30/08 12:38 AM He says he's not gay
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
This is my first time here. Thank you for being available! Ignorance is not always bliss, I wish I'd pushed for my husband to see a counselor sooner, but I had no idea the magnitude of the issues that would come of his sexual abuse. He's actually been two times now. We've been married 4 years, and he actually told me about his male cousins from the get go. The few times it had come up, he's always blamed himself. I told him it wasn't his fault. Of course, he didn't believe that. It happened 26 years ago, and he's always blamed himself. I knew that was wrong. I just didn't realize what behaviors to blame on what.

Anger, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, irrational thinking. I figured it all stemmed from how he was raised. How hard his Dad was on him to be perfect and the drug abuse that most of his family has done. Well, now I don't know what to do. Or if I want to do anything. A month ago, I busted him looking for a man online. Says he's not gay, swears he didn't do anything. He started seeing a counselor for this and for his drinking. The drinking didn't slow down and I found out a couple weeks later that he did do something physically. We haven't done anything for months, so I promise to stand by him (with an STD Test and his promise to not do it again). Two days after that, I find that he's placed another ad online looking for another man. He still claims he's not gay, that he feels really confused.

I don't know what I'm looking for here. I've been looking online trying to find any other women that have had their husband cheat on them with a man and not be gay. He says that this all stems from his sexual abuse and that he is really confused, but that he is not gay. I don't know if I want reassurance from a man who's done this, saying that it will eventually get better, now that he is seeking help. Or if I'm looking for a woman who's been through this to say, I stayed, it took a long time, but it worked. Any thoughts? Advice? Or am I just a complete moron?


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#269287 - 12/30/08 01:02 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6805
Loc: USA
bax05

We really don't have a whole lot to go on here. We don't know the age at which he was abused and how long it went on. We don't know what the abuser was like and how he operated.

However, there are certain similarities between the problems you mention and others I have read about here and in my own experience.

He more than likely has some sort of dissociative disorder and possibly depression. These are typical symptoms. Abuse of a boy plants in his heart some homosexual emotions. Sometimes the abuse goes on for years, leaving deep scars in the boy. Sometimes the boy will hate these and fight against them but they are pretty hard to ignore completely. These emotions can be dealt with by a good counselor (whom we call a T here). The emotions will decrease gradually if they are not acted out.

It will make it harder for him if you insist on abstaining from intimacy. It will force him to look elsewhere. If possible, I would recommend that you forgive him and try to continue intimate relationships. Use protection if you feel you have to.

At times he may show anger. He may try to argue. You may have to be the one who exercises restraint in these times. Just try to love him.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#269307 - 12/30/08 06:05 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Now that the secret is out, the healing can begin so that broken trusts can be healed again, especially at your end.

Now first things first, he might be gay or not, but for now let's respect what he states - he is confused. And therapy would help me clear up those issues, as it happens in many men, as you'd find in this forum, have had to deal with similar issues...stay put, and yes may you get all the patience you can muster humanly.

Also in future, I'd suggest you too meeting a therapist, probably his own, or a different one, depending upon your husbands comfort level right now, to sort out your own fall outs, after this crisis, as you need to heal as well!

Take care!

MS

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#269315 - 12/30/08 06:49 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Morning Star]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hello,

Allen is right. You don't have much information. It seems like you two have reached a crisis-like point...lots of emotion and confusion. You are both probably feeling very hurt and not knowing what to do. It is hard to think clearly during those times. Glad you found your way here as a first step to trying to make some sense of it.

As you read more and more on this website, you will see the extent to which a person can be conflicted about sexuality and still "not be gay". Morning Star is right. Therapy is the way to get that sorted out.

You also need your own therapist. Some therapists see both members of a couple, together and separately. Others only see one or the other. I'm no expert, but it seems you need support for your own issues, as does your husband. Then maybe you can work on things together.

As you will also see by reading more on this website, there are women who stick it out and make it through to the other side. A therapist will help you decide if you are willing to do that, and if you decide to do it, will support you in the process.

My best to both of you,

Riz


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#269338 - 12/30/08 09:43 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: riz]
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
Thank you all for answering. From bits and pieces that he's told me, it started when he was 6 and ended around the age of 9. And it was during the summer breaks from school, because it's where he stayed for daycare(his grandma's). It was an older male cousin at first, then the cousin's younger brother. He's blamed heavy drinking during that time of the year on what happened. As for details, I don't know what they did to him. But, I do know that he wasn't the only one. His older sister and some cousins later in the years. He's been convicted since then, but the damage to all these children had already been done. My husband also blames himself for not telling. He says that if he'd only been strong enough, it wouldn't have kept happening. I don't understand why he doesn't see that he was only a helpless child, and that his cousins were pure evil.

When we were first married, I wanted to have sex all the time. He usually wasn't too interested, but would get interested quickly. Now, we have a daughter and I'll admit my sex drive is way down in the dumps. He has been mentioning wanting it more, but not really trying. And now this. That's my problem now. It's still so new (what he's done), and I'm having a hard time getting past it. I really hope he's not gay and we can get past this, but he's broken our marriage vows. I don't know if I'll be able to forgive.

He's got his third appointment with his "T" tomorrow. Is it possible to see the same T? There are HIPAA laws for privacy and protection, so how could she help us sort out our issues, if she can't talk about what she already knows about him? I just hope that he's really talking to her and believing that he can get better. I will either call her office myself and find out, or have him ask tomorrow. Otherwise, I have EAP at work to look for someone for me. I've begged him before to go see a T several times in the past. He's finally scared himself enough to do it.

Thank You So Much! This especially helps, because I can't talk to anyone I know about it. My family would freak out and get mad if I didn't leave. And it's not my place to tell his that he's slept with another man.


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#269344 - 12/30/08 11:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
The affects of infidelity can be devastating and you are a wonderful and loving human being and wife for proceeding with love the way you have. The decision to stay or go, forgive or not are your and no one can take that away from you.

The psychological trauma from abuse can reek havoc on a person and their relationships. There is confusion, quilt, impulses, depression, pain, and other things that come as a result that few others can understand. Many do not make it and commit suicide or self destruct in other ways before they discover that recovery is possible. A person in need of recovery may not know what they need when their world begins to cave-in on them. For some it means hitting rock bottom, others are able to find help before getting to that point, as I did. Rock bottom is when you have no shoulder to lean-on when you crash. It looks as though he is close.

This is your world and his together, a relationship. Life is about relationships (love) and not about anything else. Clarity of mind and sole will prevail and I wish that for you.

We are here for you,

Juni

_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

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#269372 - 12/30/08 01:37 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Juni]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5775
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Although Allen may be right, I'd be careful about labels and diagnoses at this point. The sexual interest a straight man can have towards penises is not the same as homosexuality or bisexuality. This may be helpful:

Am I Gay If I Think about Penises a Lot?

Not necessarily. If boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while stimulating the abuser’s penis, or from having his own penis stimulated, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. Our penis can make us feel good, give us a sense of power, and can alleviate boredom.

For the gay survivor, the association of the abuser with the arousal and attraction of the male body, a source of otherwise healthy homosexual pleasure may be tainted. The gay survivor may have ambivalent feelings towards penises as a result.

When the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing and even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. You may hate your penis because it “betrayed” you by becoming erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, involves his penis in the acts, the result can be that some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, pain, humiliation, shame and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion you might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and at the same time trying to feel good about your sexuality, and about a part of your body that is so central to your sexuality as your penis.

Many survivors report a desire or temptation to look at the groins of other men, or at their exposed penises in situations like a changing room in school, gym, or at a swimming pool. It is natural for boys and men to be curious about the penises of other guys, and no amount of reassurance that size doesn’t matter seems to lessen this curiosity. Though some heterosexual men may find it difficult to admit, there is probably not a man around who has never sneaked a peek at another man’s penis at a line of urinals or in a locker room.

For survivors, however, the penis may also be a symbol of the harm they have suffered. You may think, for example, that your penis is what “attracted” the abuser; this is often why some survivors, both teens and adults, report feelings of wishing they were not boys, or of wishing they didn’t have a penis.

The sexual parts of other males can also arouse feelings of discomfort and threat in you: that is, you are looking at other men not because you desire them, but because you are on alert for signs of possible arousal, which for you would be a danger signal. But notice once again how, when you experience these feelings, you are in fact also re-experiencing the control that the abuser had over you. The abuser’s penis was a powerful source and symbol of so much of what was happening to you as a boy. Now, even though the abuse has ended and you no longer need fear harm from the abuser, these old defense mechanisms are still active. What the abuser did years ago still has the power to influence how you think and behave.

One important consideration if you are sexual with other men when you identify as heterosexual is to look at why you desire to act sexually with them. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping – on an unconscious level – that this time you will not be the helpless victim.

One example of this is familiar with those who know or work with abused women. How many women in abusive relationships end their relationship, but then go back to the abusing partner or wind up with another man who turns out to be abusive as well? On some unconscious level these women may be hoping that “this time it will be different”. This way of thinking leaves them in a situation where they find themselves in a repeating cycle of bad or abusive relationships.

It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that behaving in this way would bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have had in your life at that time. Or you may have learned that by giving in, you would not be beaten or hurt more.

Again, look at all these situations and you can see the continuing control of the abuser. The abuse is over, and perhaps the abuser is gone as well, but the emotional responses you learned as an abused boy are likely still with you.


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#269376 - 12/30/08 02:03 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
i agree with Ken, if you are a survivor it doesn't mean you are gay if penises are for whatever reason something that you sometimes think about because like Ken said the emotional responses you learned as an abused boy are likely still with you

so if he is acting out then it doesn't mean he is gay he is just still trying to resolve these things in his mind, but clearly acting out in that way is a problem since he is married

so he has to resolve these things in his mind, find a different way to resolve them rather than acting out

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#269377 - 12/30/08 02:08 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Juni]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Sister Bax.

First of all congratualations for coming onto MS and posting.

The top of my list of resources is Joe Kort's Straightguise website http://www.straightguise.com/default.asp?id=1272 Joe is a therapist who has done some really good work in this realm. -- I was incredibly blessed when our T pointed me to an article of his and this site--. I spent over 30 years of my life questioning my sexuality and blaming myself for the brutal incestuous acts perpetrated against me when I was 10 by my 17 year old cousin. I now know that none of the abuse was my fault and I have come to peaceful terms with my sexuality. In addition to this Mic Hunter's "abused boys" is an excellent resource, it may be hard sledding at this point... I understand that Stephanie Carnes's "Mending a Shattered Heart" is a good resource for partners (my wife has a copy) and Joe Kort has a chapter in it.

My Cousin's abuse of me was the only incest/cas memory I had at the begining of my healing and recovery... more has come up over the past 2 years, some of which is in my story and other posts to MS, my point being that your husband may have other memories that surface as time goes on... the more plugged in I am to my supports "T's", groups, 12-steps; the better I do when new stuff surfaces.

My 2 cents on looking for the whys of "it all" starts with my sharing that I spent a lot of time trying to get to all of the whys and wherefores... primarily to my own frustration! I am coming to accept that a lot of the crap that came my way was irrational and that explaining the irrational is simply an untenable exercise.

My prayer for you and your husband is healing and recovery; You will be served well by finding a qualified couples T for you and your husband -- IMHO someone who is well versed in CSA and sexual addiction issues/healing/recovery --

from my heart with Love,

your brother Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#269381 - 12/30/08 02:32 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
wifetryingtoheal Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 12
bax05,

I am new to this site and am very thankful for this. One year ago my families world went into a tailspin when I found out about what I thought was one affair that my husband had had but eventually realized that there were multiple women, that my husband had been raped by an older teenage boy when he was 11, then a few years later molested by a woman more than twice his age. In amonst this were other traumas such as family abuse and his brother was killed in a car accident. My husband had repressed all of these memories except his brother being killed he remembered. In my quest to understand his affairs we came to realize they were not about feelings but about reenacting his earlier abuses and feeling further degraded. He had affairs with promiscuous women who were obviously injured themselves for whatever reason, but he chose them as he had tormenting thoughts of sex with men and even boys. He has come out with this and is working through it in counseling as well as he has begun speaking publicly to groups for awareness and his own healing. He realizes now that he was thinking the thoughts of sex and rape with men and boys because of his own repressed memories and confusion around how a male could have raped him and his shame of wondering why he couldn't stop it. He was attracted to girls before he was raped, has always been attracted to women, felt repulsed by the thought of ever having sexual contact with a man and thus compulsively began acting out with willing women as he thought he would act out with a man or a boy if he didn't "get it out of his system" with women. He felt a mental pain that he said was somehow relieved by reenacting his sexual abuse with women which he felt was acceptable. He felt like amonster for having the thoughts, for acting out with women he found disgusting because of the bar types and ways they were and for the sexually degrading things they did with him, and because he felt he couldn't stop the thoughts and the need to act out because of them. He has then wondered if that meant he was gay, bisexual, or what until he remembered his abuse and has been in counseling for the past year. He describes first being very confused and not wanting to act out anymore, to feeling strongly that he no longer wanted to act out with a man or a boy due to his understanding but his mind seemed to be searching for those same awful thoughts but they were no longer there, to today where he finds it so painful to know what was done to him and the things he did with so many women as a reaction that he never wants to experience that shame again. He too has always insisted he is not gay, came close to acting out with a man because he thought that was the only way to get rid of the thoughts but he didn't due to the circumstances, contemplated suicide due to his depression and confusion, and all the while felt love, attraction, and continued commitment to our marriage and never wanted to lose me as his wife or our marriage. It is very hard to work through and understand. I don't agree with anyone telling you to continue sex with him so he doesn't seek it elsewhere. That is your personal choice and you need to do what feels right and safe for you. We entered into marital counseling right away, he is working with a therapist who specialized in sexual abuse, and I work with an individual counselor of my own as well as our 13 year old just began counseling with her own counselor who is great with younger kids like her for her to work through her feelings of what our family is going through. There is much more to it and I certainly have my own struggles and questions that would like to bring to this forum, but I saw yours and wanted to respond to your pain and confusion also. Hope this helps. The question of sexuality is such a tough one for men which I had no clue before this happened to our family. As others have said, he may or may not be gay, that is a very individual thing, but sexual abuse to a male by a male certainly creates great confusion around sexual orientation. I wish you well.


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#269384 - 12/30/08 02:56 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
Thank you all so much for the messages. It's bringing a lot of insight to the situation that I never thought about. And knowing that I'm not alone is really helping. I forwarded the Penis excerpt from Ken and the Straight guise from Wes to my husband. Thank you very much. He says that it helps when I've sent him a couple other things. He has even made an appointment with a new T, one that specializes in male sexual abuse. I'm really hoping that his acting out is his rock bottom. He even made an appointment for an STD test. I'm not ready to go there, yet. Maybe if it's clean, I'll feel safer. He's says he's not gay and wants to continue with this marriage, but I think he needs to think it out more. If he's gay, I'm okay with it. We can part ways amicably and he can be a part time Dad. If he's not, then we can move forward. I'll be here for him, regardless, because we will always be family for our daughter.


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#269388 - 12/30/08 03:39 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
Should I leave him alone? It just feels like I'm pushing too hard. But I don't want to let it go. He's got his appointments, but do you think the articles are too much? Since I didn't realize the enormity of all the damage it has caused him, I've never addressed it too much. Now that it's so new to me, I'm almost obsessing over it all and wanting to fix it. My only fear is that he'll clam up again and pretend it didn't happen, as he had been.


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#269393 - 12/30/08 04:26 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Sister Bax;

I feel a lot of love and caring in what you are doing and saying, keep on with the love and caring as your guide. Your husband, as his healing and recovery progress, will let you know what does and doesn't work for him. Heck this changes form me as life goes on, as I move along in recovery I am more likely to communicate it. I pray that you have leaning posts like my wife did through our separation and still has as we continue with our life together -- as I progress in my healing I am finding that we have 3 lives, our joint life and our individual lives, each of which have their own specific needs --.

I hope this helps...

Your brother Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#270947 - 01/12/09 09:45 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
He is quite probably not gay just confused from the abuse

encourage him to work through the abuse issues

men who were abused, as I was have heaps of confusion
disorientation

you might suggest he joins us so we can help him along the path of survival

Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#270968 - 01/12/09 12:51 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: nathan555]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 856
Loc: washington
Bax,

It is easy, to agree that he should hold no shame or blame concerning his abuse (to include drug and alcohol abuse when it was happening). ***then***

I used to stuff my feelings with alcohol and drugs, I never managed to get a foothold on becoming emotionally sober,until I got physically sober. ***now***

I don't want to minimize everything that is going on, but would like to suggest (perhaps) another part of the puzzle.


Blackout (Scorpions)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#272835 - 01/27/09 06:52 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
roxanne Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 16
I agree with wifetryingtoheal, it's not about gay or not gay, it's really about the marriage vow and what you choose to put up with. His compulsions are real, and while you might educate yourself and work hard to understand the reasons for them, and feel sad for his pain, it doesn't mean that you can live with infidelity, no matter what the cause.
I have to object very strongly to what pufferfish said: "It will make it harder for him if you insist on abstaining from intimacy. It will force him to look elsewhere. If possible, I would recommend that you forgive him and try to continue intimate relationships." Sorry but yikes! Talk about trying to make you responsible for your husband's behaviour! Don't fall for this sort of guilt trip. Your husband's actions are not because of anything you have done or not done, his choices are rooted in his past, long before he met you. This site emphasizes this over and over, that the spouse not take responsibility for what isn't hers.
Your fear about an STD is a real one. It only takes once to contract a disease.
Do what you know to be right for you, follow your instincts, don't be shamed into things that damage your inner core.
As far as coming across a couple where the husband has had sex with men during their marriage that has healed and got to the "other side" and is thriving, I haven't come across one yet. I asked that question 2 years ago and never got an answer. So I'll ask for you again: to all the wives out there who found out that their husband has had sex with men during you marriage, have you healed as a couple? Are you out there? Please come forward.


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#272922 - 01/27/09 06:24 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: roxanne]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
Hey Roxanne,

I'm not married, and Rob supposedly hasn't had sex with men since we've been dating. I say supposedly because that's what he says, but because he's lied about other things relating to his sexual "preferences" or what have you, and because he led a double life for years prior to meeting me, there's always doubt on my part.

I've been reading on support groups for couples where one is bi/gay and the other straight, as well as reading on here. Are there couples who heal after the husband has affairs with men? Not many as far as I can see. And I think the reasons are so very complicated -- from the simple issue of infidelity, to the more complicated issue of how bisexuality often manifests itself, including the obsessive, compulsive aspects of it for many people. Rarely is it a matter of simply finding both sexes attractive in some way. Rather, it's more often than not a matter of feeling that both sexes are needed desperately in order to fulfill very different aspects of the bisexual person. So the odds of fulfilling monogamy aren't great for a lot of bisexual men (and I mean sexually bisexual - whether they identify as such or not).

So, it's pretty complicated.

And then there's the whole issue of -- even if there's trusted fidelity, is there enough overlap between the husband and wife when it comes to what they find erotic, is there a shared ground upon which to build future-oriented fantasies of what the Good Life is?

The issue of whether the guy can refrain from taking every little bump in the road and personal faults in his wife as justification for nurturing his homosexual fantasies, etc....

Is the guy fully committed, from a place deep inside himself, to nurture his heterosexuality? Does he even know what this means?

Etc....

So, nope, it's not easy to have a spontaneous relationship with a guy who feels torn between his hetero and homosexual aspects.

And yes, Pufferfish gave advise that is potentially physically devastating. You have to make sure, to the best of ones' ability, to keep one's physical well-being in mind.

Take care,
Katie


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#272967 - 01/28/09 01:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Kathryn]
Gabbahey Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 43
Thought I would chime in generally (hey Kathryn):

I hardly stop in here any more; I wasn't sexually abused in the severe manner that most board members were.

When I do stop in: my god the pain and turmoil!

All that alienation, internalized.

I mean that things happened---but who knew it was against the rules of the tribe and the mechanics of mammalian maturation?

Then one day a boy realizes things went wrong. Nobody knows but him and few others, yet it seems as if the whole world is off limits (alienation).

Which is worse, the bad experience (mechanics of upbringing gone bad---fear) or the knowledge of how bad it was (shame)?

And then the women; so tormented themselves, because their relationship suddenly is no longer following any rules at all. Not even "domestic abuse" rules or "back from the war" rules or "he's a drunk" or "he's a rake" or "he's a momma's boy" rules.

Everybody is so damn horrified by broken rules that bend gender. Interesting that. Why aren't we more horrified by violent death, 50,000 traffic accidents, tens of thousands brutally killed all over the world all the time? Why more horrified by the wrong organ in the wrong mucous membrane.


And I speak of myself here too---I'm still a bit horrified, but mostly fatigued now, that one day I was denied---by my own weird adaptation---the mucous membranes that "nature intended."

Was talking to a psychiatrist recently---not my main shrink but my pill pusher. He forgets everything I say between visits (3 months).

I noted that I certainly did start to experience same-sex attraction of some sort (long story, told elsewhere on this board).

Like every male shrink I've ever talked to, this bit of information always results in interrogation. Men want to know the details, precisely.

"What do you mean, attraction? Attracted to whom?" Later the shrink will talk about the fluidity of human sexual experience, etc., but it's interesting how Guantanamo-like a male shrink gets when faced unexpectedly with same-sex attraction. Without some time to prepare, the shrink's initial panic must be accompanied by an internal monologue like, "How can I be nice to this guy without getting him hot?"

But of course women interrogate with the same intensity too----what the "friends and family" forum is all about. Interrogation, emotional turmoil, never ending.

"What is stopping you from having a relationship with a woman?" he asked, when I assure him I still like hetero porn and vaginas.

"Because of the horror I see on this board" I answered. "I don't want to be the source of horror. I'm horrified by myself enough as it is."

So much pain and turmoil---we all seem ideal candidates for monks. Why continue to torment ourselves with this "relationship" thing?

Humans are crazy fools; religion is all about containing the craziness, so as to confer the benefits of status on old men. No society, no status, so must protect society with rules and rituals that keep our neurons from going into a zombie loop. Old guys wrote the holy books to protect the status quo.

Want happiness? Become a scientist, and learn to observe the machinery of the universe with a cool and fascinated eye. Humans are obsessive, symbol-making, self explaining, insatiable creatures. Nothing will ever be quite right.

Just a few weird thoughts; who know what brings happiness.

One thing seems just wrong though---the horror. We know why and how things happen, more or less; a combination of nature and nurture. Since we know, why the horror (I ask myself, horrified)?


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#272969 - 01/28/09 02:55 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Gabbahey]
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Please let me apologize in advance for my laziness in not reading the replies to this post. I always drop in once a year or so just to see how things are. And I always seem to find a post just like this.

First off, the issue is he cheated on you. With who (or what) is moot. And he may not be gay, he might fall into that rather vague category of “bi-curious” that would mean he's sort of gay, but not really. Confused, yeah I can see why you might be.

Don't let him slide with the excuse “it was the abuse.” He cheated on you, it doesn't matter if it was with a man, woman, aardvark, or whatever. It's up to you to decide if you want to let it slide or not but his philandering is not a question of therapy it's a question of choice. Ask yourself this would you still be looking to make an excuse for him if he had cheated on you with a woman?

I'm not "man hater" (yes there are gay man haters)and I'm all for forgiveness but he needs to take responsibility for his actions not the actions of his cousin.

I hope you find peace,

Brian


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#272980 - 01/28/09 08:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: brian-z]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Hmmmm?

My wife had sex with men during our marriage laugh I'm not trying to minimize, certainly...no, really. The therapist we sought out, found, was a relationship specialist, she said.
She flat out, blamed me (before knowing I was a survivor) suggesting that the non-offending partner was always responsible for the offending partner looking outside the marriage for physical or emotional intimacy.

Round two, new therapist, new specialist, he said the first was a crazy bitch. Okay, then...

No, really, I don't think it is a given that all male survivors "act out." Catchy turn of phrase, isn't it? As if it diminishes the reality of it or the impact. To, "act out." And, I have to agree, does it matter, when it comes to having sex outside the relationship, the gender of the person with whom they are involved? A choice is made...you can call it a compulsion or obsession, you can call it whatever you like, the fact is, a choice is made.

After the shock has subsided and, after the STD tests come back, after the kids have cried at the mention of divorce and the dinner plates are divided up, when the dust is settled...it still came down to, what am I willing to put up with in this relationship.

After the fact, the only real confusion, was why I waited so long to say, "So long, see ya..." And, years later, after I was in another relationship, stopping by to pick up the kids, she asked me if I wanted to have sex. She actually seemed disappointed to hear me laugh out loud.

The obvious question, the therapist asked me after the fact was..."why did you want to stay in a relationship with someone that was cheating on you.?"

"I'm not really sure," I said.

"Then," he said, "let's talk about that."

laugh


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#273031 - 01/28/09 08:28 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: ttoon]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
Hey Toon,

As always, you've said a lot in your post.

Why do I stay? That's, well, complicated smile

I think and feel infidelity sucks, it kicks us where it counts, and, in my opinion, where it ought to count. All those horrible feelings we have when finding out that our lovers have betrayed us in that way seem pretty important -- and pretty healthy -- life without those emotions seems pretty shallow to me. What else are we willing to suffer for but our hopes and dreams that we're lovable and lovably unique - and the Other is too?

So, why stay? Hmmm... first off because people deserve redemption, in a non-religious sort of way. I'm not religious. But still, there's something to the religious notion of redemption.

Secondly, even a cheater has redeeming qualities smile Rob sure does. He's a great guys in so many ways. It's interesting that sexual secrets often comes packaged in a person who has such a sterling public image all the while leading a double life. I think it's what the psychologists call splitting. The whole Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde thing. And the thing is that both the good Dr. and the frightful Mr. are real. For instance, Rob seems really sweet. Not just nice, but sweet. Does the fact that he also has an aspect that sadistic rule out his sweet aspect? Don't know. Pretty confusing. So I go with the idea that there's not a false sweet Rob and a real sadistic Rob -- or a real sweet Rob and a false sadist Rob.... Rob's both, and they're both real. Rob of course would like to both minimize his sadistic aspect and simply deny that it exists at all. He identifies with the sweet, forgiving, caring, protective Rob. That other Rob is a "small" part of who he is.... it doesn't really "matter"....

And in some ways I get this: Rob's successful, a good father, a good ex-husband to his ex-wife (he sucked as a husband), etc... All of which is pretty amazing given his background. So, he grew up to be a "manizer" -- he could have grown up to be a rapist or worse. Lots of people with his background do.

Third, I look at my son and ask myself: "What if something like this happened to him? What if he were raped tomorrow, grew up to be fucked up enough to be a slut? Would he still deserve understanding, compassion, love?"

And of course my answer is "Yes". At least that's simple. And it is simple.

So.... there you have it. Or at least some of it.

Take care,
Katie


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#273037 - 01/28/09 09:07 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
Hey Gabbahey,

I don't think it's so much a matter of "mixing up the mucous membranes". How so? It's like this: I"m 5 feet tall. Let's say I get involved with a man who, for whatever reason, felt he wanted to marry short women but had a powerful sex thing for tall women. Let's say for him that short women represent stability, companionship, family. Tall women represent escape from the mundane, represent indepedence, freedom, thrills. Short women are nice, and sex with them is sometimes even sort of pleasant. But sex with tall women -- wew, way better.... just something about rubbing up against a tall woman -- the sensations are just more powerful.... so powerful, in fact, that it feels like an "addiction".

You'd have the same problem even though there's no mixing up of the mucous membranes smile

So it's not so much about different body types: short vs. tall, male vs. female.... but the meanings a person attaches to them, and their relative inability to bring their fantasies to the body type they happen to want to build a life with rather than the body type they want to fuck for an hour. And the fantasies themselves don't matter, as long as we feel gratitude towards the person we're having sex with that they're the ones who has allowed us to fantasize about whatever it is we fantasize about....

There's guys on here that seem to make too much out of their fantasies despite the fact that they feel sure about what kind of life they would like to build and who know that it's only our obligations to others that gives life meaning.

And then there are those, like Rob, who would like to build a life in which he's under no obligation to anyone - neither man nor woman. Bisexuality can fit this bill to a T, and seems to be one of it's attractions for lots of people.

Take care,
Katie


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#273044 - 01/28/09 09:56 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6350
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Bax,

Please tell me about the various end-game scenarios you envision.

Watch my two videos below with trigger warnings. They may give you a bit of perspective on things (IMO).

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#273219 - 01/30/09 01:02 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Kathryn]
Gabbahey Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 43
Oh crikey, I posted a bunch of BS, and now I've got a debate on my hands. grin

The Joker responds:

I agree, the symbolic structure of attraction is complicated. In my case, the symbolic structure of becoming "unattracted" to women as significant others is complicated.

For other men, and unlike me, the main problem is the forced sexualization of their relationships with men. Forced or not, brutal or not, it often persists.

When I reduce it to membranes and organs, I guess what I'm thinking about is the difficulty of conveying personal complexity, the history of attraction and arousal, to anybody else.

You understand: nothing Rob says is a satisfactory explanation.

When you meet a stranger, the process of getting acquainted goes from categorical to individual.

Under stress, we don't allow other people to deploy biographies. Rather, we revert to categories: gay, straight, bi, Arab, Jew, etc.

At the same time, under stress, while denying the "other" complexity and history, we attempt to deploy our autobiographies as a way to deflect criticism. Nixon was "not a crook"; he always had a way to self-justify.

So that stuff about membranes: I suppose I'm imagining my story seen from the outside. First come categories; later---and rarely---the details.

Sad to say, there's not enough world and time to explain myself to everyone. To some extent, I have to live with whatever identity is given me.

I can refuse to internalize it, but at the same time I recognize that an "identity" is a pact between the individual and society.

In fact, I sometimes feel a great desire to adopt an identity from the pallet that society offers: gay, straight, bi. This is a desire born of early neglect: I want to be loved, not hated. I want into society, by any means allowed.

Society has a difficult time with male victims, and we shun that identity ourselves. We can be abused easily, men are violent in many ways (a joke is violent), but it's much harder to be "helped," whatever that means.

It's easier for me to see and present myself as a joke of psychological mal-adaptation. I attract the necessary attention to my pain, and yet deny that my suffering is consequential.

This denial of personal importance is a big part of male group solidarity. Everyone or no one a peacock. If you stand out, it better be because you're the alpha dog. Otherwise, you're a contemptible impostor or a dangerous rouge male.

I am, in fact, a comedian, jester, a fool, the Joker----humor from personal pain. It's a very male thing. And finally the pain fades and you're just left with humor---not a bad way to live life. And humor---sans pain and neediness---gets you laid!

To generalize horribly and throw out silly thoughts in general:

A lot of men are comedians (or anarchists) of some stripe. I think it is often our way, whereas women take the travails of their interior life and their various relationships very seriously.

Just when women think their men are getting serious about relationships, the men go on a bender. They clam up, disappear, break up the china shop, do other crazy shit, etc.

Just when men think that women have accepted them and trust them and will stop asking questions----the interrogation about their feelings continues!

On the Psychology Today website, look up a blog called The Scientific Fundamentalist:

<<http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist>>

The blogger asserts things like "everything men do, they do to get laid." It's a very irritating blog, but like this post I'm writing, might have some things of interest.




Edited by Gabbahey (01/30/09 01:04 AM)

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#273220 - 01/30/09 02:11 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Gabbahey]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
In the end is it not our choices and actions that really define who we are. Not who we claim or pretend to be so that others will choose to love us.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#273223 - 01/30/09 06:48 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: michael banks]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
Hey Gabbehey,

Of course you were playing with words, yet, as you know, there's a bunch of truth in what your wrote re: mucous membranes. As I know you know.

As far as men.... I used to think that the differences between men and women were far exagerrated. Then I went through a period of thinking that the guy who wrote Women are from Venus, Men from Mars had a lot to say in his pop-psych sort of way. Now I'm back to thinking that sexual dimorphism between the human female and male is at least not as significant as say, in Gorillas smile

Anyway, what I wrote in response was sort of driven by the assumption that it doesn't matter which sex your spouse has an affair with. It does. It's a complicating factor, not because it's with the other sex, but because of the reasons it's with the other sex: cuz there has to be a body that's defined as being very different from the body to whom you're married, the psychodynamics of the individual demands it -- wether it be a female body vs. a male body or a petite body vs. an Amazon body.... There has to be a distinction/demarcation between the bodies concerned so that they can carry their distinct definitions -- and you can't mix them up.

There's more to say. And when I have time I will.

And I'm so glad to see you here!

K.


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#274356 - 02/07/09 03:36 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
If boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while stimulating the abuser&#146;s penis, or from having his own penis stimulated, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a &#147;normal&#148; (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. Our penis can make us feel good, give us a sense of power, and can alleviate boredom.

For the gay survivor, the association of the abuser with the arousal and attraction of the male body, a source of otherwise healthy homosexual pleasure may be tainted. The gay survivor may have ambivalent feelings towards penises as a result.

When the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing and even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. You may hate your penis because it &#147;betrayed&#148; you by becoming erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, involves his penis in the acts, the result can be that some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, pain, humiliation, shame and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion you might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and at the same time trying to feel good about your sexuality, and about a part of your body that is so central to your sexuality as your penis.

Many survivors report a desire or temptation to look at the groins of other men, or at their exposed penises in situations like a changing room in school, gym, or at a swimming pool. It is natural for boys and men to be curious about the penises of other guys, and no amount of reassurance that size doesn&#146;t matter seems to lessen this curiosity. Though some heterosexual men may find it difficult to admit, there is probably not a man around who has never sneaked a peek at another man&#146;s penis at a line of urinals or in a locker room.

For survivors, however, the penis may also be a symbol of the harm they have suffered. You may think, for example, that your penis is what &#147;attracted&#148; the abuser; this is often why some survivors, both teens and adults, report feelings of wishing they were not boys, or of wishing they didn&#146;t have a penis.

The sexual parts of other males can also arouse feelings of discomfort and threat in you: that is, you are looking at other men not because you desire them, but because you are on alert for signs of possible arousal, which for you would be a danger signal. But notice once again how, when you experience these feelings, you are in fact also re-experiencing the control that the abuser had over you. The abuser&#146;s penis was a powerful source and symbol of so much of what was happening to you as a boy. Now, even though the abuse has ended and you no longer need fear harm from the abuser, these old defense mechanisms are still active. What the abuser did years ago still has the power to influence how you think and behave.

One important consideration if you are sexual with other men when you identify as heterosexual is to look at why you desire to act sexually with them. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping &#150; on an unconscious level &#150; that this time you will not be the helpless victim.

One example of this is familiar with those who know or work with abused women. How many women in abusive relationships end their relationship, but then go back to the abusing partner or wind up with another man who turns out to be abusive as well? On some unconscious level these women may be hoping that &#147;this time it will be different&#148;. This way of thinking leaves them in a situation where they find themselves in a repeating cycle of bad or abusive relationships.

It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that behaving in this way would bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have had in your life at that time. Or you may have learned that by giving in, you would not be beaten or hurt more.

Again, look at all these situations and you can see the continuing control of the abuser. The abuse is over, and perhaps the abuser is gone as well, but the emotional responses you learned as an abused boy are likely still with you.


Wow - powerful stuff here. I am quoting this post just so it's easier for me to find this - thanks Ken. I'm going to be re-reading your post. I know I still have unresolved issues, I don't know if now is the time for this part but I want to be able to find this post without scrolling through 1000s of pages when I want to read this again.

_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#274438 - 02/08/09 12:26 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
as a child I was emotionally needy and about 9 years old had my brothers friend talk me into something. It was a good experience for me. I am 55 now, have been gay for 30 years(openly), and am just beginning to go through some bi-sexual leanings/urges. A part of it is my healing of things. A part is also repressing sexual feelings because bisexuality is not necessarily cool in the gay community. Or at least me saying it. Others have somehow voiced their opinions.

The feeling I got from your posting is that he has a lot of sorting out to do. The biggest part is being responsible within your relationship. That is the big thing. to me. I have struggled with the thought of meeting a woman and pursuing something. It all came down to going through this process without having to get into bed with anyone. I have not had sexual relations with my partner(of 18 years) for two years. There has been inuendoes, just no discussion. I feel that the discussion is the biggest part. That and trust. Trust that you have with him, but probably moreso that he have with you and with himself.

The sense that he may be going thru an honesty thing with himself. and not knowing how to approach it with you. I have a great sense that I still need to mature in an emotional sense way back to 9 years old. To go back and heal.....this is a difficult time for me and I am used to working at a deep level.

I wish you the best. Both of you. No words of comfort here. Maybe you reading this helps. The question that just popped in my head is does he read these? At some point I hope he gets here. There is also After Silence, another place to go.

Good Luck....riverboy.


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#282185 - 04/04/09 02:58 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
coaster Offline


Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 18
When I was a boy, I often escaped into books. One of my favorites was My Friend Flicker and its sequel Thunderhead. In the second book, the boy carries the newborn foal for the first few days of its life after his dad explains the foal will always remember this and see the boy as the most powerful being in the world. His protector. The foal became Thunderhead--a powerful stallion, who nevertheless always acquiesced to the boy because of that early experience.

For years, I had no idea why the image of the boy holding the foal was so important to me. It was because I wanted my dad to be that way with me. I was the foal that needed comforting.

But the people who hurt us are the same people that unmercifully whip foals and kick puppies. Part of the secret shame comes from the "shaming" language that perpetrators used on us. And the sense that because they hurt us (even boys want to be seen as Men), they must be more powerful than us.

We heard: You're not a man. We say to ourselves: I must be a man.
We heard: Boy's don't cry. We say to ourselves: I won't cry.
When we naturally got a hard-on, we heard: You know you like it. We say to ourselves: I must have liked it.
We heard: If you tell anybody, I'll kill you. We say to ourselves: If I tell anybody, he'll kill me.
We heard: You should kill yourself. We say to ourselves: I should kill myself.
We heard: You homo. We say to ourselves: I must be a homo.
(and if you ARE gay/bi/trans, this becomes an additional burden).

What am I trying to say? Whatever we heard in the act of the abuse becomes a part of our psyche, a part of who we indoctrinate ourselves to believe we are, just so we can try to make sense of a completely unfathomable act. When your husband says he is confused, likely he is. Sometimes the memories are like an endlessly repeating recording that replays until it has been sorted out. That's all I can say.

I do wish both of you the very very best. Whatever you do, please make sure he wears a condom if you are going to be intimate.



Edited by coaster (04/06/09 10:33 PM)

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#282213 - 04/04/09 11:00 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa

Originally Posted By: wifetryingtoheal
bax05,

. I don't agree with anyone telling you to continue sex with him so he doesn't seek it elsewhere. That is your personal choice and you need to do what feels right and safe for you.


Amen to that! His behavior is his responsibility, not the wife's.

Think if the inverse had been posted- that while the survivor needs time away from sexual activity with you, you should seek it elsewhere?

Wife Succeeding at Healing (MHO)-your whole post was precious as this entire strand has been, but I thought that particular part needed to be Repeated & highlighted! Peace to All......


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#282300 - 04/05/09 07:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Ohio
i'm sorry you're being dragged through this. it sounds like he's going through sexual confusion which is a part of almost any sexual abuse. he may not be gay. he might. only he can know, therapy is vital for him. i hope he can also find fellow survivors to share and seek counsel.

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#283084 - 04/10/09 10:51 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
Coriander Offline


Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: bax05
Anger, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, irrational thinking. I figured it all stemmed from how he was raised. How hard his Dad was on him to be perfect and the drug abuse that most of his family has done. Well, now I don't know what to do. Or if I want to do anything. A month ago, I busted him looking for a man online. Says he's not gay, swears he didn't do anything. He started seeing a counselor for this and for his drinking. The drinking didn't slow down and I found out a couple weeks later that he did do something physically. We haven't done anything for months, so I promise to stand by him (with an STD Test and his promise to not do it again). Two days after that, I find that he's placed another ad online looking for another man. He still claims he's not gay, that he feels really confused. ... Any thoughts? Advice? Or am I just a complete moron?


I'm new here too, but I wanted to give you a bit of encouragement. My DH is a CSA survivor as well - only he's just now beginning to remember the very earliest incident. He remembers one when he was 11, but there is more ... sadly, there is more. cry

It sounds as though your H has used drinking as his own form of "pain medication" to not have to deal with the intense pain his CSA and upbringing brought him - much as my DH used his porn addiction and occasional acting out as his medication.

This is my field of research (professionally & educationally) as well as my existence. My husband has struggled with an unwanted SGA (same gendered attraction) for most of his life - he doesn't want to live a gay lifestyle (incongruent with our lifestyle & faith), but has fought this. It is possible to "not be gay" and still have a SGA - 'being gay' tends to be a lifestyle-adoption as well as an orientation. Some of the statistics I've read suggest that 40% of married men deal with an unwanted SGA - which is a pretty high number.

If your H wants to investigate this confusion more deeply, he can find those who will "help" him - there's a subculture within the gay community that finds victory of sorts in bringing down otherwise straight married men with a gay encounter. If your H doesn't want to be gay or experience this in a full on m2m encounter, there are places to find help in that as well - but most of what we've discovered is online, not IRL.

There's also help for you, Bax. There are networks of Str8 Spouses and email lists that can give you a safe place to ask questions, vent, and find information - for your own peace of mind.

Not every man who is a CSA survivor will exhibit SGA tendencies or have this confusion, but I've seen it often. Sexual abuse seems to often lead to sexual problems - be it addiction, confusion, or other things. It's something I wish no one had to deal with or go through, and yet due to the wicked choices some people make, others are victimized.

I hope this is helpful to you.

_________________________
His and his,

~Cori

My Heart | His Heart ~ one wife's journey through her husband's sexual addiction to wholeness & healing

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#283089 - 04/10/09 11:34 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Coriander]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Coriander,

Welcome to MS - so glad to have here, it's great to have another gal on board in the Familly & Friends Forum.

If I may, what you refer to SGA, we commonly refer here to as SSA (same sex attraction)

I found your post insightfull, informative and on point. I do hope you'll stick around smile

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#283094 - 04/10/09 12:29 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Coriander]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
hi cori, and welcome to the website. there are many here who are struggling with same sex attractions, both 'gay' and 'str8'. i am glad for you both to have found a formula for integrating the unbalance between the intra and interpersonal dimensions of your relationship allowing you and your partner to experience and share a more present-based reality.

it is a struggle indeed to come to terms with the those unconscious and implicit messages that drive the determinations to self-define at any given moment. even more challenging for couples i imagine.

the major portion of my recovery has been dedicated to debunking the myths i had come to import from moment to moment as being axiomatic to my own self truth.

ever and always a work in progress.....

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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