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#269384 - 12/30/08 02:56 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
Thank you all so much for the messages. It's bringing a lot of insight to the situation that I never thought about. And knowing that I'm not alone is really helping. I forwarded the Penis excerpt from Ken and the Straight guise from Wes to my husband. Thank you very much. He says that it helps when I've sent him a couple other things. He has even made an appointment with a new T, one that specializes in male sexual abuse. I'm really hoping that his acting out is his rock bottom. He even made an appointment for an STD test. I'm not ready to go there, yet. Maybe if it's clean, I'll feel safer. He's says he's not gay and wants to continue with this marriage, but I think he needs to think it out more. If he's gay, I'm okay with it. We can part ways amicably and he can be a part time Dad. If he's not, then we can move forward. I'll be here for him, regardless, because we will always be family for our daughter.


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#269388 - 12/30/08 03:39 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
bax05 Offline


Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 4
Should I leave him alone? It just feels like I'm pushing too hard. But I don't want to let it go. He's got his appointments, but do you think the articles are too much? Since I didn't realize the enormity of all the damage it has caused him, I've never addressed it too much. Now that it's so new to me, I'm almost obsessing over it all and wanting to fix it. My only fear is that he'll clam up again and pretend it didn't happen, as he had been.


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#269393 - 12/30/08 04:26 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Sister Bax;

I feel a lot of love and caring in what you are doing and saying, keep on with the love and caring as your guide. Your husband, as his healing and recovery progress, will let you know what does and doesn't work for him. Heck this changes form me as life goes on, as I move along in recovery I am more likely to communicate it. I pray that you have leaning posts like my wife did through our separation and still has as we continue with our life together -- as I progress in my healing I am finding that we have 3 lives, our joint life and our individual lives, each of which have their own specific needs --.

I hope this helps...

Your brother Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#270947 - 01/12/09 09:45 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: bax05]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
He is quite probably not gay just confused from the abuse

encourage him to work through the abuse issues

men who were abused, as I was have heaps of confusion
disorientation

you might suggest he joins us so we can help him along the path of survival

Nathan

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#270968 - 01/12/09 12:51 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: nathan555]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 860
Loc: washington
Bax,

It is easy, to agree that he should hold no shame or blame concerning his abuse (to include drug and alcohol abuse when it was happening). ***then***

I used to stuff my feelings with alcohol and drugs, I never managed to get a foothold on becoming emotionally sober,until I got physically sober. ***now***

I don't want to minimize everything that is going on, but would like to suggest (perhaps) another part of the puzzle.


Blackout (Scorpions)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#272835 - 01/27/09 06:52 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: wifetryingtoheal]
roxanne Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 16
I agree with wifetryingtoheal, it's not about gay or not gay, it's really about the marriage vow and what you choose to put up with. His compulsions are real, and while you might educate yourself and work hard to understand the reasons for them, and feel sad for his pain, it doesn't mean that you can live with infidelity, no matter what the cause.
I have to object very strongly to what pufferfish said: "It will make it harder for him if you insist on abstaining from intimacy. It will force him to look elsewhere. If possible, I would recommend that you forgive him and try to continue intimate relationships." Sorry but yikes! Talk about trying to make you responsible for your husband's behaviour! Don't fall for this sort of guilt trip. Your husband's actions are not because of anything you have done or not done, his choices are rooted in his past, long before he met you. This site emphasizes this over and over, that the spouse not take responsibility for what isn't hers.
Your fear about an STD is a real one. It only takes once to contract a disease.
Do what you know to be right for you, follow your instincts, don't be shamed into things that damage your inner core.
As far as coming across a couple where the husband has had sex with men during their marriage that has healed and got to the "other side" and is thriving, I haven't come across one yet. I asked that question 2 years ago and never got an answer. So I'll ask for you again: to all the wives out there who found out that their husband has had sex with men during you marriage, have you healed as a couple? Are you out there? Please come forward.


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#272922 - 01/27/09 06:24 PM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: roxanne]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
Hey Roxanne,

I'm not married, and Rob supposedly hasn't had sex with men since we've been dating. I say supposedly because that's what he says, but because he's lied about other things relating to his sexual "preferences" or what have you, and because he led a double life for years prior to meeting me, there's always doubt on my part.

I've been reading on support groups for couples where one is bi/gay and the other straight, as well as reading on here. Are there couples who heal after the husband has affairs with men? Not many as far as I can see. And I think the reasons are so very complicated -- from the simple issue of infidelity, to the more complicated issue of how bisexuality often manifests itself, including the obsessive, compulsive aspects of it for many people. Rarely is it a matter of simply finding both sexes attractive in some way. Rather, it's more often than not a matter of feeling that both sexes are needed desperately in order to fulfill very different aspects of the bisexual person. So the odds of fulfilling monogamy aren't great for a lot of bisexual men (and I mean sexually bisexual - whether they identify as such or not).

So, it's pretty complicated.

And then there's the whole issue of -- even if there's trusted fidelity, is there enough overlap between the husband and wife when it comes to what they find erotic, is there a shared ground upon which to build future-oriented fantasies of what the Good Life is?

The issue of whether the guy can refrain from taking every little bump in the road and personal faults in his wife as justification for nurturing his homosexual fantasies, etc....

Is the guy fully committed, from a place deep inside himself, to nurture his heterosexuality? Does he even know what this means?

Etc....

So, nope, it's not easy to have a spontaneous relationship with a guy who feels torn between his hetero and homosexual aspects.

And yes, Pufferfish gave advise that is potentially physically devastating. You have to make sure, to the best of ones' ability, to keep one's physical well-being in mind.

Take care,
Katie


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#272967 - 01/28/09 01:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Kathryn]
Gabbahey Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 43
Thought I would chime in generally (hey Kathryn):

I hardly stop in here any more; I wasn't sexually abused in the severe manner that most board members were.

When I do stop in: my god the pain and turmoil!

All that alienation, internalized.

I mean that things happened---but who knew it was against the rules of the tribe and the mechanics of mammalian maturation?

Then one day a boy realizes things went wrong. Nobody knows but him and few others, yet it seems as if the whole world is off limits (alienation).

Which is worse, the bad experience (mechanics of upbringing gone bad---fear) or the knowledge of how bad it was (shame)?

And then the women; so tormented themselves, because their relationship suddenly is no longer following any rules at all. Not even "domestic abuse" rules or "back from the war" rules or "he's a drunk" or "he's a rake" or "he's a momma's boy" rules.

Everybody is so damn horrified by broken rules that bend gender. Interesting that. Why aren't we more horrified by violent death, 50,000 traffic accidents, tens of thousands brutally killed all over the world all the time? Why more horrified by the wrong organ in the wrong mucous membrane.


And I speak of myself here too---I'm still a bit horrified, but mostly fatigued now, that one day I was denied---by my own weird adaptation---the mucous membranes that "nature intended."

Was talking to a psychiatrist recently---not my main shrink but my pill pusher. He forgets everything I say between visits (3 months).

I noted that I certainly did start to experience same-sex attraction of some sort (long story, told elsewhere on this board).

Like every male shrink I've ever talked to, this bit of information always results in interrogation. Men want to know the details, precisely.

"What do you mean, attraction? Attracted to whom?" Later the shrink will talk about the fluidity of human sexual experience, etc., but it's interesting how Guantanamo-like a male shrink gets when faced unexpectedly with same-sex attraction. Without some time to prepare, the shrink's initial panic must be accompanied by an internal monologue like, "How can I be nice to this guy without getting him hot?"

But of course women interrogate with the same intensity too----what the "friends and family" forum is all about. Interrogation, emotional turmoil, never ending.

"What is stopping you from having a relationship with a woman?" he asked, when I assure him I still like hetero porn and vaginas.

"Because of the horror I see on this board" I answered. "I don't want to be the source of horror. I'm horrified by myself enough as it is."

So much pain and turmoil---we all seem ideal candidates for monks. Why continue to torment ourselves with this "relationship" thing?

Humans are crazy fools; religion is all about containing the craziness, so as to confer the benefits of status on old men. No society, no status, so must protect society with rules and rituals that keep our neurons from going into a zombie loop. Old guys wrote the holy books to protect the status quo.

Want happiness? Become a scientist, and learn to observe the machinery of the universe with a cool and fascinated eye. Humans are obsessive, symbol-making, self explaining, insatiable creatures. Nothing will ever be quite right.

Just a few weird thoughts; who know what brings happiness.

One thing seems just wrong though---the horror. We know why and how things happen, more or less; a combination of nature and nurture. Since we know, why the horror (I ask myself, horrified)?


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#272969 - 01/28/09 02:55 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: Gabbahey]
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Please let me apologize in advance for my laziness in not reading the replies to this post. I always drop in once a year or so just to see how things are. And I always seem to find a post just like this.

First off, the issue is he cheated on you. With who (or what) is moot. And he may not be gay, he might fall into that rather vague category of “bi-curious” that would mean he's sort of gay, but not really. Confused, yeah I can see why you might be.

Don't let him slide with the excuse “it was the abuse.” He cheated on you, it doesn't matter if it was with a man, woman, aardvark, or whatever. It's up to you to decide if you want to let it slide or not but his philandering is not a question of therapy it's a question of choice. Ask yourself this would you still be looking to make an excuse for him if he had cheated on you with a woman?

I'm not "man hater" (yes there are gay man haters)and I'm all for forgiveness but he needs to take responsibility for his actions not the actions of his cousin.

I hope you find peace,

Brian


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#272980 - 01/28/09 08:21 AM Re: He says he's not gay [Re: brian-z]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Hmmmm?

My wife had sex with men during our marriage laugh I'm not trying to minimize, certainly...no, really. The therapist we sought out, found, was a relationship specialist, she said.
She flat out, blamed me (before knowing I was a survivor) suggesting that the non-offending partner was always responsible for the offending partner looking outside the marriage for physical or emotional intimacy.

Round two, new therapist, new specialist, he said the first was a crazy bitch. Okay, then...

No, really, I don't think it is a given that all male survivors "act out." Catchy turn of phrase, isn't it? As if it diminishes the reality of it or the impact. To, "act out." And, I have to agree, does it matter, when it comes to having sex outside the relationship, the gender of the person with whom they are involved? A choice is made...you can call it a compulsion or obsession, you can call it whatever you like, the fact is, a choice is made.

After the shock has subsided and, after the STD tests come back, after the kids have cried at the mention of divorce and the dinner plates are divided up, when the dust is settled...it still came down to, what am I willing to put up with in this relationship.

After the fact, the only real confusion, was why I waited so long to say, "So long, see ya..." And, years later, after I was in another relationship, stopping by to pick up the kids, she asked me if I wanted to have sex. She actually seemed disappointed to hear me laugh out loud.

The obvious question, the therapist asked me after the fact was..."why did you want to stay in a relationship with someone that was cheating on you.?"

"I'm not really sure," I said.

"Then," he said, "let's talk about that."

laugh


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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