Markk,

When people are busy throwing stones at others they don't have time look at themselves.

Mike

More like "nobody should be threatening anybody with eternal damnation and unending torture in the flames of Hell for not strictly obeying their idea of what is, without doubt (according to them), right or wrong until they get perfect first".

really? how many of Pastor Haggard's sermons have you heard?

melliferal,

Glad to see you on this side.

Christians are not perfect just forgiven.
We have the same imperfections as everybody else.
And the same struggles-pride..greed..lust..etc.
We all sin and will until the day we die.
God does not ask us to be perfect.
Just to believe and accept his gift of grace.
Some forget that fact at times.

Mike

Guys,

So far this has been a good discussion, and while it remains civil to this point, it seems in danger of tipping over the edge into territory that is less than considerate of others. Please remember to be civil to each other in this discussion. It does no one any good for the conversation to disintegrate to the point that the moderators need to step in.

Thanks for your consideration of the other guy.

John aka walkingsouth
For the Mod Team

Hi Blurry,

I feel sad that Mr. Haggard was not able to seek help as the deamons inside were so troubling. I hope he finds some help and peace.

I would welcome him here unconditionally. He was abused, so was I, he is a brother survivor.

-Jim

I have never heard any of his sermons, but I have hauled a dozen truckloads loads of Bibles to the International Bible Society, which is right across the street from, and is affiliated with, the New Life Church. So I have driven right by there at least 24 times plus dozens of times more on I-25 and Rt. 86 too!!!

Kinda have to feel for the guy and especially his family just a little. I don't think that I have ever seen anyone fall so fast in my life. It's kind of like he went skydiving with a couple of car batteries tied to his feet! If he was here he most likely would have to use an assumed name, but perhaps some of us could give him some consideration or the benefit of the doubt if he was judged to be truthful and considerate with us all.

http://www.newlifechurch.org/

Mark

Mark,

I like that analogy - skydiving with car batteries tied to his feet. That's the way it felt to me too - I can't fathom what he was going through. But I can empathize with him over being torn by these deep deep emotional needs that you believe are directly commanded against by the God you are trying to serve. I no longer have my ministry either, though for reasons the other direction - I believe the Bible is being misused (again) by some people who refuse to see.

Anyhoo, I have heard Ted Haggard's sermons, sat through some of his general speaking and teachings. He is a good, loving, caring man. I would welcome him here or to my dinner table. Heaven only knows my life is far from perfect.

M

Turcker Mark,

I like that analogy also.

My mind has been on this story all day today.

I remember how hard it was to begin to tell anybody, how do I trust with this info, what would they think of me, while they break confidence... Looking back to the first person I told, the feelings, scared, numbness I felt before I could utter those words I was CSA... was very hard.

I am not a celebrty, or on TV, or in the spotlight, everybody loking at every movment or sentense I make. He must have gone through hell. I am glad he had the strengh to survive from the mistakes he made. I didn't know anything about the guy until the story broke and saw the story on TV.

I pray that the family remains intact during this time

As someone who just joined this site (this is my very first participation in a blog), I'm surprised and a little disappointed to see members of a website that is established to help its members deal with the unexplainable truths of abuse and how it affects our lives attack Reverend Haggard or question his integrity for expressing what I'm sure must be some of the very same feelings and frustrations that we (I know I have) have expressed in our journey. Are we holding him to a different standard? Are we "eating our own"?