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#268354 - 12/22/08 10:31 PM Born old?
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
My wife has said to me on many occasions that I was "born old". I had thought that she was just meaning I was being an old fart about something. But earlier today, Joel suggested to me that I post the question. Its really a good quesiton I think as he had put it to me in a way that I had not previously considered. As a survivor, having missed a lot of my adolescence to abuse, did I then skip the phase and become old, and unable to appreciate certain parts of life? Especially the younger parts? The "safe" but risky adolescent stuff that we all should have been into? I've always stayed safe, whenever I could. Was I too safe? confused

Were you born old? Enquiring Minds Want to Know!

Best of the season to all!

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#268359 - 12/22/08 10:41 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
Dusty Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 280
Loc: Australia
Geeders

Yes I always had a knowing that others my age didnt seem to display, dont ask me to explain. I always have played it safe and have wondered about what it would be like to feel young.

Dusty


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#268360 - 12/22/08 10:41 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
My therapist has mentioned "skipping" the adolescent part. When I was abused (at age 6) my adult kicked in so that I could survive. I, too, have always stayed safe. Sometimes my therapist tries to bring out the kid or adolescent in me by acting goofy. I see it as immature and I have a hard time responding to it. But it's something to work on, I guess.


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#268364 - 12/22/08 10:54 PM Re: Born old? [Re: loberhead]
G5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 203
Loc: New Jersey
Oh yeah.....definitely. I believe I've missed out on so much because I was hiding and protecting myself. I don't look at it all the time as becoming old, because I feel like a ten year old in an adult body, but I do feel 'old' because of all the things I want to do and feel, that I should have/could have done ten or twenty years ago if it wasn't for the hiding.
As an adult I feel behind. Others have marriages, families, houses, careers, things that I can't get a grasp on because I'm stuck in the past. I want so much to be able to go back and do things over, but I can't.

I haven't moved on yet....but I do allow myself to have some fun now and then. Like climbing trees....and riding my bike....and even sledding. But it's usually by myself.

Chris

_________________________
WoR Kirkridge '08
WoR Alta Advanced '09
International Conference '10, '12
Oprah 200
PA Support Group
WoR Alta Advanced '12
"Silence Buster"

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#268366 - 12/22/08 10:59 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Jim,

Given as how I sort of got this topic rolling (BTW, you take advice real good, Jim) laugh I'll chime in with my own experience. I have a distinct memory at about the age of eight. I am standing in the school yard at recess watching all the other kids at play. They were running and screaming as kids do, but I had no relationship to or understanding of why they were doing so. I couldn't conceive in my child's mind how they could be so frivolous - life is far to serious for such activities and useless foolishness, I thought. And as I stood there, I remember feeling a million years old and consequently completely removed from my peers.

Growing up, the only compliment (if it can be considered that) that I ever received from people was that I was so mature for my age - again I was so much older than what I should have been and certainly more so than is healthy. I never had friends in my age group as I felt that I had nothing in commom with such youngsters. At fourteen, all of my friends were in their mid-twenties +, I could relate to them and oddly they accepted me as one of their own.

Many years later I married. I tended to be demanding of my very young daughters who were still just toddlers at the time. Exasperated, one day, my then wife asked me and in not too gentle a tone:"Were you never a F***ing kid?" And my immediate and truthful response was, NO!

Many times and for long, long periods over these last eight years of dealng with CSA I have felt ancient. To the point where it was all I could to find the physical stamina to shower and shave. I would sometimes look in the mirror and not recognise that very old man looking back at me. I often had the thought :"I'm too young to be so old, I'm X age but I feel like I have the body, mind and life experience of a ninety year old."

Now I'm rambling.............How many more ancient young men do we have here at MaleSurvivor and is this a common experience for male CSA victims?

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#268368 - 12/22/08 11:03 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Damn, Jim.....

You've described me in that post. Nearly everyone I've known in my adult life has described me to be in some way older or somehow more mature than my age. You've given me a handful of food for thought here. Thanks.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#268369 - 12/22/08 11:06 PM Re: Born old? [Re: joelRT]
G5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 203
Loc: New Jersey
Joel, Jim,

I too wondered how everyone around me could be happy, laughing, enjoying their time here on earth, while I was much too serious. Yeah.....I am older than I think, but I do want to laugh with them....I just seemed to have forgotten how.

C

_________________________
WoR Kirkridge '08
WoR Alta Advanced '09
International Conference '10, '12
Oprah 200
PA Support Group
WoR Alta Advanced '12
"Silence Buster"

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#268371 - 12/22/08 11:25 PM Re: Born old? [Re: G5]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1955
I can relate, though in my high school years I got in a lot of trouble, so I suppose I didn't skip all the risky stuff. But in my case a lot of it wasn't fun risky stuff, but could have been. I think by nature I am adventurous, but it manifested itself in troubling ways.

Once I got to college, and then after the first year when I "remembered", it was all down-hill. I tried to suppress things a lot but when I eventually knew it wasn't all going to "just go away", I slipped into a long-term depression and didn't have much fun. I missed out on a lot. Chris, you speak of my own feelings very well in your first post when you mention feeling like the adult that was left behind. That one hurts, I know it all too well. I am working on letting that one go, but I think the hurt there is deeper than anything at times.

Eric


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#268372 - 12/22/08 11:31 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
Asmodeus Offline


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 112
Loc: Vestavia, Alabama, USA
I also feel that the abuse forced me to miss out on part of my adolescence. For a long time I wouldn't tolerate any behavior that I percieved as childish. I'm 25 now and it's only recently that I've started learning to enjoy things again. My nephew is a big part of that. Something as simple as seeing him on Christmas morning or his birthday. For his birthday I had the people who run the bakery at the grocery store I worked at put a picture of Ringo Starr on the cake for him. I had them use the individual photo that came as one of the inserts in the White Album.

_________________________
I may not be perfect, but at least I'm not fake.

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#268391 - 12/23/08 02:32 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Asmodeus]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Jim,

This is a hard one for me because in high school I did miss out on a lot. Because of my abuse I could not do the normal things that most of the kids my age did. Date,go to dances,the prom or any of the offical school functions that the normies did. But I grew up in the seventies and partying was the thing to do. With drugs and alcohol as my lubricate to smoothe my fears and anxiety. I was able to participate in a pretty active social environment.I had three or four close friends who I ran with pretty closely. We were all raging alcoholic and drug addictics by the time we were 15 or 16 but we had a great time.
As i said we did not take part in the normal activites with the normies but we were more than willing to be involved and join in the parties that happen afterward. It seem that there were alot of people just like us who were always ready to party. I will never regret growing up in the seventies when there was alot more acceptance of the party lifestlye. And just about everyboby was willing to do the wild thing. Also I grew up in North Carolina and all I had to do was walk across the street. And there a miles of woods to play in and half a mile into the woods there was a creek. My friends and I were always out in the woods fishing,hunting,camping,swimming and just f--king off. in that respect life was great for me in my teens.I could be a child but I was unable to grow and mature in my teen years. In the real world of life I could not let down my walls enought to to learn to interact in a normal matter. I always lived on the edges of society never really participed in what was really happening.
When I look back I have mixed emotions some of my memories are good and others are awful.
I look into the mirror and wonder sometimes who is this old guy and where did all that time go to. Do I have regrets sure,but would I want to go back,no.

Was I born old-yes but have I gotten better- hell yes.
Today life is better then it ever has been even with my struggles in recovery.
I have old friends who are still stuck in old destrutive patterns and still don't realize it.

Mike


Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#268395 - 12/23/08 03:23 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I see two sides to this, first when CSA happens the adult steps in to save the child, who stands stunned by the experience and in many cases this disassociation lasts a lifetime. The second thing that happens simultaneously is that the child gets stunted or frozen at that very age, so many adult survivors will find their emotional nature still parked at that age, unless they have made recovery efforts and allowed the inner child to mature enough to match the physical age!

An important part of this recovery is to respect where you are right now and start from there, rather than go top down, and ask the inner child to 'behave' at all times, something parents do as well, not to great results in the long run!

Allow your inner child to learn and grow in your presence, nurture and love it as only you can, and that does the trick for you, as now you get to enjoy your second childhood well!


_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#268409 - 12/23/08 07:25 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Morning Star]
beakin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Texas
I've also always felt much older than my physical age. Well, luckily, at 56 that's no longer true. Unfortunately, now I feel much younger than my physical age.

What little I remember of my childhood was spent wondering why the kids around me didn't just grow up. The middle child with an older brother and younger sister, I knew early on that I had to manage the conflict in the house to keep me "safe". Didn't work too well, but I knew I had to try. It was all about wanting to fade into the background whenever possible. When that wasn't possible, I could be completely outrageous so people could laugh. It's just one more way of being invisible.

I love what you said about asking the inner child to "behave" at all times, Morning Star. I realize I do that all the time. I also agree that I can now see that, emotionally, I've been stuck back around age five - twelve at the very most. I'm realizing now I'm in therapy, behaving is becoming harder to do. I guess the smartass side of me has always been the part I allow to not behave. Seems to be getting more pronounced as I try to reconnect with the past. I also take myself way to seriously. I'm working on that.

Not all that sure I want the inner child to mature enough to match my physical age, but I'm willing to try.



ben

_________________________
Only you can do it, but you cannot do it alone.

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#268410 - 12/23/08 07:38 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Morning Star]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
Great question! and one I've been wrestling with for a while now.

I'm sorry, but it is going to take a bit of a wrant to answer from me.

when I was three, I have a very distinct memory of contemplating the fact that I would be four in a week, and wondering how I would precisely change when I was four.

Of course I found I didn't change much.

when I went to nursery and my first primary school, ---- right up until i was 7, I never really thought of myself as different from others at all, ---- it never particularly occurred to me that I was visually impared.

I remember having a gang of friends, ---- one specific best friend in particular, ---- but generally a gang of others who'd I'd just play with.

Then when I was 7, I lost the sight of my right eye and spent six months in hospital, ---- where of course I missed most of my friends.

when at the age of eight I started boarding school everything changed. I had to grow up pretty fast, to cope with home sickness, isolation, and what was tantamount to emotional abuse.

I always felt apart at boarding school, but that was not a feeling of being old, ---- just being different.

when i was 12 I was actually told I came across like an 18 year old, this went as far as being invited to the councel for Christians and jews youth seminar, ---- where everyone else was 18-25. i had a fantastic time, ---- as in fact I did on my work experience at nottingham uni chaplincey.

then of course when I was eleven I started the secondary school from hell where shortly after abuse would begin.

i can really! relate to what eric said about sitting there and looking at how stupid people were being. the stupidity often took the form of jokes which were incredibly hurtful, and people actually called me old.

by the end though, at age 15, when all the people my age I knew could be separated into the catagories of those who hurt me and those who ignored me, the "old" feeling had sort of reached it's ultimate end. I don't think I even had a mental age as a teenager, ---- in fact I find it hard to separate out thge timings of memories. A poetic way of putting it would've been that I'd become so old I'd died about become an unfeeling corpse, ----- though of course I never literally felt that.

When i got to be 16 and left that school and for the fest time met teenagers who weren't completely wrong, I actually started to feel much younger, smaller, and inexperienced than everyone else, ---- but everyone seemed so tolerant and kind of this stupid kid in their midst, that I began to relax.

this pretty much continued over the next four years until i went to uni, and that feeling didn't change until i got to be 20 or 21. Ifg people were doing something I saw as silly, it was that I wasn't quite able to appreciate it, rather than I was too old for it.

One of the few good memories I have is at the age of 19, attending the end of year ball at my school. I always feel far too self-conscious to dance at these occasions, and usually end up sitting somewhere quiet with a drink talking to people.

One of my friends though, ----- actually quite a goth, not that that matters, very gently persuaded me to come dancing with her, and in fact told me what I should be doing. she also constantly told me i didn't look like an idiot, ---- which was really nice of her.

then, It started to reverse again, and has been growing stronger right up to the point I started my recovery.

i've been feeling not just old in the sense of older than everyone else remotely my age, but old in the sense of being completely passed all oppertunities for happiness. Whereas before I waas hopeful of eventually meeting the right person and having things go well, slowly that feeling has done a complete 180 and I've started to feel completely passed it.

Now exactly as people have described, I've felt people were being immature and stupid, and actually I've felt the distinct feeling when meeting people even a litle younger than me "who would want this old git associating with them"

Sinse I started into recovery land though, I can say this feeling has changed, ---- in fact recently I've begun to make friends with someone who's 20, ---- six years younger than me, and in fact when we're messing around, --- wondering what Yoda would buy palpetine for christmas, and making up tong twisters, ---- I've not felt old at all.

then of course, when my mum described me the other day as "going on 30" I got a very nasty shock, ---- as I'm 26. My brother is 29, ---- he! is going on 30 lol!

Appologies for the highly continuing wrant, but I wonder if i could finish with one thing a friend of mine said to me.

she's 52, has a Phd in chemistry and a masters in councelling, and is one of the people I've told about my abuse.

she actually said that at the age of 23, she felt far older than she does now at 52. apparently, in people's early 20's, the brain goes through a lot of as yet not understood chemical changes. I certainly have friends who say in their early 20's they felt far older than at another time, even though they've got no abuse or other issues to deal with, so maybe for people in their 20's, ---- there's some kind of chemical component as well.


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#268424 - 12/23/08 10:12 AM Re: Born old? [Re: dark empathy]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dark empathy
she actually said that at the age of 23, she felt far older than she does now at 52. apparently, in people's early 20's, the brain goes through a lot of as yet not understood chemical changes. I certainly have friends who say in their early 20's they felt far older than at another time, even though they've got no abuse or other issues to deal with, so maybe for people in their 20's, ---- there's some kind of chemical component as well.


There was a post on here not too long ago that indicated that the brain, in the late teens and early 20's does in fact go through a change to the extent that estimation of consequences starts to be meaningful. Perhaps, because of their relative newness to the psyche, consequences cause those in their early 20's to slow down a bit to estimate the consequences of decisions and behaviours. Those of us well past this point (I'm 52) can reflect back upon our experiential learning and make the same decisions and express the same behaviours with less effort because it is based on prior experiences, and not new to the thought process.

Wow, this thread has caused some serious gray matter exercise for everyone thus far. Including that modest guy, what's his name, oh yeah, grin JOEL!

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#268789 - 12/26/08 12:53 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
G5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 203
Loc: New Jersey
This topic touches home with me. After a WoR in october, I've been feeling so much more than I ever have in my life with maybe the exception of before the abuse.

One of the seminars of the weekend was shame busting and allowing yourself to be a kid again.....now along the subject of this thread, how is it for you others who try to be 'childish' per say....hmm trying to get this right. How are you able to cope when allowing yourself to 'let go' and have some fun or be spontaneous.....if people look at you weird and wonder what the hell you're doing? I find I make mistakes in social situations when i'm trying to participate.....I feel like an idiot and like someone who is still a child and I'm conversing with adults.

Does this make sense?......I feel sooo very behind when it comes to social situations....and allowing myself to participate.

What are your experiences?

Chris

_________________________
WoR Kirkridge '08
WoR Alta Advanced '09
International Conference '10, '12
Oprah 200
PA Support Group
WoR Alta Advanced '12
"Silence Buster"

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#268949 - 12/27/08 12:57 PM Re: Born old? [Re: G5]
Joren Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 51
Loc: US
This is something I can relate to all too well. I was forced to make decisions at age 8 that forever changed me. To this day I struggle to even understand how to "have fun" or what that even means. My wife has commented a time or two that I simply don't know how to be a kid, despite the fact that I at times still have the naivete of a child.

I have serious regrets about the parts of life I missed out on, and while I'd love to learn how to have 'fun' or be a kid again - I just don't have any clue how to do so.


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#269039 - 12/28/08 10:08 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Joren]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2430
Loc: TEXAS
Greetings, Guys. Born old? Well I am sure that I did, in more ways than one. Until recently when all this sexual, emotional, physical and mental abuse surfaced, I haden't realised that I completely missed my age from being 14-17, perhaps even earlier, when I was in that orphanage/Home. Now I really can't recall much about my earlier years, except what I have just posted under little Pete & big Pete's 69 yr journey. But to get to the point of this posting, I never had any kind of girl/female contact. I never went to high school, so I was never into that dating/petting with girls stuff, proms, etc. However as a young boy I was tall and skinny, and I looked older than I was, because to get into the movies nobody believed that I was still in the kids age group. What I did after that was carry a copy of my birth certificate with me to the movies, then I would not have to pay the adult price. Looking at my Air Force basic training picture, my hair line was already receeding, and I was just 17 yrs old. And about at 18 or 19 already a grey hair or two
I sure did miss out in a lot of things, as I'm sure we all have.
Heal well my friends/brothers.
Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#269043 - 12/28/08 11:11 AM Re: Born old? [Re: petercorbett]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
To Jim and all...
I completely get it. I believe such important life experiences are lost because we had to go from safe and happy childhoods to fear, mistrust, uncertainty, confusion and vigilance. We lost the ability to enjoy things like playing, laughter and fitting in. We viewed the world through old eyes while having to hide shame and pain that only survivors know. Spontaneity got replaced with vigilance.

For me, and certainly most of us the ability to feel like we belong and are valued or lovable gets distorted and being at ease to freely laugh and feel happy. On some level I felt people knew my experiences and it made me feel ugly. I grew fearful of boys and men. I was obsessed with insecurity others would abuse me more. I avoided sleeping on those rare occasions I spent the night at someones house.

I even went through high school never taking a gym class afraid to be in a shower with other males. I was terrified. It has translated in to what others might see as irrational fear but it sure was real for me.

I was the obedient responsible kid who became the caretaker and go-to person when my peers were playing and having fun. I was pretty much kept away from having friends by parental decree and my own fear of being found out and more blackmale. CSA resulted in all of this as well as manipulation to be the good kid. Of course then there was family ridicule for being sensitive.

Of course we we appeared to be born old....childhood was stolen. At least that is how I see it. That is why this is such hard work because I lost my identity and figuring out who I am and then trusting it still a process I work on. I try to remain hopeful. Jim, your wife nailed it.

This makes me think of the Garth Brooks song: "I'm much to young to feel this damned old".

Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#306120 - 10/12/09 10:59 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Danbuff]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
I am ressurecting this post for the benefit of the new guys and my belief that the question bares particular relevance to those of us who, at times, struggle with the losses that were inflicted upon us. This was made particularly clear to me in the last couple of weeks when I got triggered, and all I wanted to do was have a temper tantum, lay on the floor, stamp my feet, scream at the top of my lungs, and cry. I did manage the crying part. And I really wanted to trash my office, but realized that, as an adult, that wouldn't be too good. Nevertheless, I really wanted to. Progress?

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#306128 - 10/12/09 12:02 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Northeast, USA
I can relate to actually living the life of an old person my whole life. I became a surrogate spouse to my mother right from the get go, so just being a carefree kid seemed distant to me. I was a very fearful, detached, adult-like person growing up, except when I was with either my brother or a close friend, then I could act like a kid. I always lost myself in my close friendships I think. Because of the responsibility I've always felt with regard to my mother and the rest of my family, I just wanted an escape from the world. It was as if within a very close friendship the responsibilities of the outside world could not touch me. These old patterns of relating still creep up from time to time and I find myself acting very child-like with like-minded friends.

It seems that having to be an adult too soon prevents one from going through the developmental stages that one must go through in order to fully mature. Going through these stages at 42 sure makes me feel like the kid I never got to be, and it's quite embarrasing, if I do say so myself, to be an emotional and psychological child while being a physical and chronological adult.

I appreciate you giving new life to this post Jim,

Rocco



Edited by Casmir213 (10/12/09 12:23 PM)
_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#306130 - 10/12/09 01:20 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Casmir213]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Ding! Count me in as someone who can completely understand... i remember constant comments like, "You're 13-going-on-40!" or "What an 'old soul' you are", etc, etc. I remember being exasperated at what seemed to me the hopelessly trivial concerns of people my own age, and always hanging out with older kids, if not adults.

Of course, on the darker side, that's something my 2nd perp kept telling me... "You're so mature for your age".. i guess it's a two-pronged issue for me. Glad you bumped the thread, Jim.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#306133 - 10/12/09 02:16 PM Re: Born old? [Re: dgoods]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, All.

OMG - This fits me to a T. I so struggle with feeling young and old and all the ages in between and have trouble just being 45.

As a Kid, I wanted to be old so I could rule and take over control as I see it today. Of course as a kid I had to idea.

As A KID, I wanted to be a kid as well. I wanted to run and play and jump around with all the other boys. I wanted to jump in the mud and catch frogs and dress up Ken and Barbie - yes even in the mud.

Well, I can do the above (shhh dont tell anybody but I bought a Ken and Barbie doll a month ago - just to resurrect the lil guy - Donnie) and I am having fun BUT I am 45 and need to act 45.

I can relate and raise my hand to what has been said.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#306134 - 10/12/09 02:19 PM Re: Born old? [Re: DJsport]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
dj,

speaking of being born, i hope you have ken and barbie living in separate boxes........

crazy

ron

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  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
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#306137 - 10/12/09 02:35 PM Re: Born old? [Re: dgoods]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dgoods

Of course, on the darker side, that's something my 2nd perp kept telling me... "You're so mature for your age".. i guess it's a two-pronged issue for me. Glad you bumped the thread, Jim.


Oh man, where have I heard THAT before? Were you there too? crazy

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#306140 - 10/12/09 02:56 PM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
Daniel_forgotten Offline


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
ive been trying to put this issue into words for 2 months and couldnt yet.

i do relate


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#306399 - 10/14/09 01:11 AM Re: Born old? [Re: Geeders]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Geeders,

I can totally relate to what your saying. I have friends (people who don't know about the sa and other abuse) who like to joke that I was never a child based on how serious I am and so focused on the adult world. While it is funny since their perception of me is accurate every time I hear this from them it still hurts a little bit for it reminds me of what I lost in childhood and adolescence. When I question myself about this I fall into a cycle of what does it matter, or why is childhood important anyways. In theory I can answer these questions easily yet on an emotional level it becomes harder. JS

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#306433 - 10/14/09 11:24 AM Re: Born old? [Re: jls]
GentleSoul Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Taiwan
Monsoor!

Great topic dood. Chuck, I've also been told I have an "old soul". Although I'm uber-introverted and introspective in person, I've always been very mature for my age. I met my boyfriend when I was 21 (he was 35) and I was light years ahead of him in terms of maturity. Some of you probably know me as a fool in chat. Whether it's a mask or my inner child at work, there is another side of me that is very serious and mature.

What is the meaning of maturity? Is it synonymous with being wise or accumulating life-experiences? Or is maturity a phase where one loses touch of his or her inner child? Sorry for the ramble. Great topic monsoor.

Jay

_________________________
"I like helping people out because I want to be seen as selfless."

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#306543 - 10/15/09 06:44 AM Re: Born old? [Re: GentleSoul]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
"What is the meaning of maturity? Is it synonymous with being wise or accumulating life-experiences? Or is maturity a phase where one loses touch of his or her inner child?"

These are fascinating questions. Please respond.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#306569 - 10/15/09 01:14 PM Re: Born old? [Re: jls]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
I recently came across a baby picture. My wife thinks I must be around 6 months old in it. It's a startling picture because the baby looks, well, old in the eyes. My wife says it's as if the baby is saying "how could you?" It kind of reminds me of one of those old renaissance paintings in which they would give babies adult-like faces. Interestingly enough the look on his face is virtually identical to the look in my first grade picture, or again as my wife says, the look I get on my face when I blank her out when she says I'm not listening or when I know I'm putting on poker face because anything closer to the truth of what I'm feeling would be inappropriate.

OK enough of the baby and kindergarten vibe. Yeah, I always felt old as a young child long before I met my perp, but I think this is really common to children from alcoholic households. You've got heavy stuff to try to deal with and in my case I had my grandmother giving me the guilt trip that I had to make sure and lie to cover up their alcoholism so that no one would know.

Then as those of you who've read some of my other posts about my perp may remember, he insisted I grow up and be his full blown adult partner at 14. I wasn't spending much time with kids my own age because I was always with him. On the few occasions I could, maybe he had something else to do at which there would be no excuse for me being there or whatever, man was it great!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, I thought much of their concerns were childish or more to the point I knew (I now know who can really know about someone else) that they didn't have to deal with the stuff that I did.

Contrast that to being this adult that's suddenly realizing this big part of himself has remained stuck as a teenager...man/child.

It is with that topic and the theft of my own sexuality that I find the first glimmers of anger toward him beginning to form. But that's definitely a different topic.

Thanks Jim for bringing this back to us. I would encourage some of you who have been around here a while to do this more often. It's not only great to have topics to read about which already have tons of posts to their credit, but it's a serious reality check seeing an endless stream of posts, screen names and avatars that no longer appear on the boards today. It's like looking though an old family album with pictures of people you don't know, but everything about them is completely familiar in a way. It makes me feel like I'm part of some tradition, which while it's not one anyone wants to be part of, in that it is a tradition of men taking back their lives from their abusers, it's a proud one indeed of which to be a part.

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#306573 - 10/15/09 01:37 PM Re: Born old? [Re: sono]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada


Edited by Geeders (10/15/09 03:25 PM)
_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#307742 - 10/23/09 02:40 PM Re: Born old? [Re: michael banks]
happybuddha1 Offline


Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 85
Loc: Michigan
Wow....pretty eye opening.....it sounds like there is light at the end of the tunnel. I was forced into adulthood at age 14.....putting up the walls, yet reaching out to anyone or anything for relief. Now, 36 years later, finally realizing how much I missed....always trying to be "secure" while worrying about being abandoned and being afraid...sucks

Anyone have any ideas on how to get the kid (Mikey) back and learn to have fun.....sure gets lonely living in my own prison frown......I have not told anyone about the abuse..not ready for that yet.

_________________________
A scared little boy who is trying to heal and feel again..

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#307748 - 10/23/09 05:08 PM Re: Born old? [Re: happybuddha1]
GentleSoul Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Taiwan
Sorry for not responding earlier JS. I don't think I have answer to the question, "What is the meaning of maturity?". I heard somewhere from a WoR or read somewhere from a book that it might be a phase where adults lose touch of their inner childs. It would be interesting to know what causes the strange phenomenon regarding the accelerated maturation amongst survivors. I guess the more you know about the truth, the less ignorant (or innocent) you get. Just a thought... Talk amongst yourselves before you get verklempft...

Jay

_________________________
"I like helping people out because I want to be seen as selfless."

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#307757 - 10/23/09 06:49 PM Re: Born old? [Re: GentleSoul]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I think your right about our accelarated maturation. In part it can be credited to adapting to the abuse, which makes me wonder how we as survivors would be different if we weren't.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#307984 - 10/25/09 01:22 PM Re: Born old? [Re: jls]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
This question is quite hard for me to answer.

for one thing, as a young child I was always old in one way or another because of my intelligence. i learnt quickly at age 9 or 10, that while I could play ninja turtles and other space games with friends and chat about films or muck about, ---- there werethings I was interested in, ---- music, physics, theology, which were radically different from what other kids were doing.

So, I already started at a miner disadvantage. Then, because my abuse was perpetrated by, and took place around teenagers, I literally never got to do any of the standard teenaged things at all, ---- heck, I stil haven't!

I'm uncomfortable at parties and happier just chatting to people, and I've never been on an honest to goodness date, ---- Evenings out with female friends yes, but a literal date, ---- no.

At uni i've done some fun nd random thigs, --- wandering off into the woods with friends for a bbq. While I always tend to be the safety conscious one, I'm not afraid to do random stuff as well, ---- up to a point.

this includes red hot coal golf into the river, ---- which is bizarre, but good fun.

I can certainly have fun being random and playing games though i come across as serious much of the time.

SometimesI've felt too old for anything, ---- sometimes inexperienced as a new born puppy, it depends upon the situation totally.


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#307991 - 10/25/09 02:14 PM Re: Born old? [Re: dark empathy]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I've felt so old that I should be dead, if that's any oonsolation.

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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