Newest Members
rhyoung, Jefferson22, OxfordArms, Anony_mous, Drew6991x
12367 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
gryffindor (67), KevinSweeney (57), latinflavor815 (52), latin_flavor_815 (52), RTMark (33), sabooka (35), southpaw10 (46)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 21 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12367 Members
74 Forums
63553 Topics
444026 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#268516 - 12/23/08 11:41 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: Still]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
For one, it's impractical. The girl you mentioned probably won't receive much money if she wins because most people don't have stores of cash. Two, what will happen to the family? Presumably the child won't be in prison, so if the parents must hand over all their money, how will they care for the child? What if they have other children? If the parents have no money, how will they put their children through school, high school and college? If any medical problems happen to them or the children, how would they pay for it?

However, the basic reason it's not a good idea is because it's ill intentioned. What you describe is the deliberate intent ruin an entire family's lives just because you were harmed and the intent to take pleasure from knowing that even the person's grandchildren could suffer as a result.

That's a very huge, very serious line to cross.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

Top
#268583 - 12/24/08 01:39 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: jacobtk]
ricmar00 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 2
Loc: New Jersey
Robbie and other on this thread:

Your discussion has pulled me in. I do not know on which side, but I have certainly had a reaction I would like to share. I hope it does not offend or upset further, and I hope it is judged by its intent, which is to help healing.

I have worked with child and adult survivors for many years. I have also worked with children and juveniles who have sexually abused others, trying as hard as I can to prevent them from doing it again. I have come to realize that they offend for many different reasons (please read reasons/not excuses). To me it is still largely a mystery, what would make someone hurt someone as innocent and undeserving of hurt as a child is. Genetics, prior victimization of some sort, mental retardation, immaturity, mental illness, uncontrolled rage, impulsivity, and, on many occasion, just plain spiritual/moral rottenness are all contributors. Even as I write this, I know I fall miserably short of understanding, much less of answering WHY. I do know that for many of them it seemed to be more of a violent regurgitation of rage, hurt, confusion, and twisted sexuality, than it was sinister, evil, and perfectly planned malice. At least it seemed like this to me.

What is unquestionable is the effect they have on others.
Robbie, the rage you feel is incredibly warranted. As you and too many others can attest, at worst, the actions of these kids destroy the lives of their victims and at best taint just about every moment of a victimís lifetime. Iíll even push it further to point out that the effects ripple, and sometimes lash out onto the survivorís family, friends, children, ex and current partners, employees, and on a bad day even strangers with bad timing.

The rage you feel was unfairly given to you by your perpetrators. Like an infection, a bad one, it is toxic. You were not born with it. It was not born of you. But it is in your possession. If unleashed, it will affect/infect others, possibly taking with it innocent unborn toothless gum bleeding grandkids. Perhaps that would be justice.

I fear however, it would just pass it on without really undoing anything for its previous victim. No one could really blame you if you lost control and unleashed it. No one could blame you for seeking justice. At least not anyone who knows a gram of what youíve unjustly been thru.

I hope you heal from this infection.
I donít know what that will look like for you.
But you deserve to find it.

_________________________
Ricardo Martinez

Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it.
-- Helen Keller


Top
#268603 - 12/24/08 08:44 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: ricmar00]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6420
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
So who is to pay the bills?

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#268650 - 12/25/08 10:36 AM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: Still]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Robbie:
Ricardo makes some excellent points. If you have a situation where others connected to the criminal (or bad guy or whatever you want to call the person) profited from his ill-gotten gain, it might make sense. So, if a scam artist got cars, fancy houses, jewelry, etc that went to family members, for example, it would make sense to round up all the loot to reimburse people who were scammed out of their money.

That might make a lot of sense in this kind of situation. However, what benefit did the spouse, parents, children, grandchildren, etc. of an abuser get by abusing you? What kind of price tag can you put on your life that was so affected by the abuse?

In medical malpractice, which was cited by someone earlier in the thread, there are formulas to estimate the lifetime earnings, for example, of a 22 yr old college graduate who was severely brain injured in a robbery and you can set a somewhat realistic price on his future economic worth. Maybe even factor in for pain and suffering. But how can you guestimate your losses in terms of financial earnings from the abuse and can you get money from your abuser?

In some cases you can. I posted a few months ago about a young man who sued his stepfather in NJ civil court for damages from the abuse long past the statute of limitations. He won and it went up the appellate court chain where he just won again. Now whether he can get actual damages from his stepfather remains to be seen but it is a legal and moral victory for those who were abused long ago and have little recourse in civil or criminal courts. At least in NJ.....


Top
#268665 - 12/25/08 12:35 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6420
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
But who ought to pay for the actual damages? Example, debilitation, medical bills, phych bills, special education?

I'm not even talking about punitive damages YET. Lets stick with the out of pocket stuff. Who ought to pay that?

In state district courts in NH and MA, the finding go for the plaintiff IF the facts and evidence support the claim. If there is jurisdictional diversity and the case ends up in Fed Dist Ct, the defendant (and their insurance company) nearly always settles out of court.

Emo and distress (as we all know are quite real and powerful) IMO ought to be fully devastating if it is evident that the juvenile perp was ill-raised and ill-supervised.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#268677 - 12/25/08 02:00 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: Still]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
NJ and I believe many states have victims of violent crimes funds to pay for medical and psychological expenses. We have gotten paid by the fund for treatment of several victims/survivors over the years.

In NJ, such fines are imposed on violent offenders (including sexual abusers) that help fund the VCCB. At least that's a start.


Top
#268692 - 12/25/08 04:03 PM Re: Juvenile Offenders [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6420
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
THAT'S a good state!!!

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.