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#268144 - 12/20/08 10:38 PM Can't deal with the news I've been handed
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them all.


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#268153 - 12/20/08 11:54 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ChristineTrying]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
While I certainly appreciate and validate your pain at the same time I feel that I just have to say this. There are so many things wrong with your attitude and, yes, obvious arrogance, that your nephew is truly better off without you.....................

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#268154 - 12/21/08 12:12 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: joelRT]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Thanks, Joel.

I am wondering though about 'my attitude'. Could you expand on that for me? I would feel the same towards any sex offender, regardless of who they are. I would not allow one to be in my home. So I'm confused about the 'attitude' you speak of. I'm not trying to be difficult or anything here but please explain.

Maybe it's because I'm female that I have these issues?


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#268156 - 12/21/08 12:33 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ChristineTrying]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1977
Christine,

Not sure if this helps, but I can fully understand why you would not want him in your home. That is reasonable. But if you wanted to help in a way that might give him a chance to turn his own life around, would there be a way someone could try to get through to him and find out if in fact he was abused? If that was the case, there might be a way to steer him into therapy which I think he really needs. Even if he wasn't abused therapy seems pretty obvious. But if he was abused, through therapy he might be able to better understand why he did the things he did. He'll still have to live with the guilt of his actions, and take ownership of such, but that is a better outcome than other possibilities. The troubles with the law and the related substance abuse issues makes me think he is probably pretty messed up inside right now. Again, not that it is your responsibility to take him in, or for that matter is any of it your responsibility. But if someone could get him to get help it might give him a chance to salvage things for himself (let's face it, a certain amount of damage has been done that can not be undone; but your nephew not addressing these things wont change what happened).

Eric


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#268162 - 12/21/08 01:47 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ericc]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
Christine,

There was a young man who I lived with who was a convicted sex offender. The situation (which is almost exactly the same as your nephew's) later turned out that had not actually committed the act, but at the time that he was with us we did not know that. As best as I can tell we were the only family he really had. This was the only home he may have had. He was very troubled, constantly hurt himself and attempted to kill himself several times before doing it at the beginning of last year.

While I understand your hesitation and perhaps in your place might not want him to stay in my home, I do think that it is possible that taking him in might be helpful. If he is close to you or was, it might make the difference. If you are concerned about him re-offending, from the little I have read having some support network of friends and family often helps offenders. I can also understand your hesitation because of his drug abuse. If anything, that will likely exacerbate any problems he has with abusing others.

I do not know how close you are to him, but if you feel uneasy about having him there, then it is probably best that you go with your gut feeling.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#268181 - 12/21/08 09:14 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: jacobtk]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Christine,

I have looked back over your other posts to try to get a better idea of your situation. I don't know if your attitude is right or wrong. Is there a right and a wrong? Your feelings are your feelings. From what you have written in the past, you seem resentful and overwhelmed. I am not wanting to judge, only to choose words which seem to describe what you are presenting.

If "resentful" and "overwhelmed" are indeed part of what you're feeling, it seems that it would be very difficult to invite a very needy person into your household. In my humble opinion, and from limited understanding of the situation, I don't see how you are in any position to help a young man in a complicated situation.

I am not saying you "should" be in a position to help him. It would be nice if we could help everyone who needs our help, but reality is otherwise.

In fact, you have stated that you try to help everyone and are concerned with everyone else's needs and feelings, but that you yourself are not feeling well supported. Is that correct?

This new development is in itself overwhelming, even if there hadn't been problems in your marital relationship already. As people on this board have reminded me, it is very important to take care of yourself. Be good to yourself. That is one important way to be good to others.

Riz


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#268183 - 12/21/08 10:04 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ChristineTrying]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Christine,

I just read your post and responses. I am of two minds on this and ultimately it is up to each of us to decide what is right for us...but I think you are wise to seek feedback.

I agree with Riz about you seemingly lacking supports while wanting to help others. Perhaps after you truly understand where you are with respect to your nephew then you might have clarity on your decision. If you are sick of being around abused people then there is a flag which says something. I hope you think about that for your comfort too. Intentions to help are fine but if you hold resentment then your nephew may sense it and not be completely at ease or honest in your home. That could be a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, if you can get past anger at him and your sister, you might be supportive from a distance or taking him in. Your husband as a survivor might be a great role model if he is healed and in a good place. If not, then it could also spell disaster.

I think you do have the wrong attitude about feeling entitled to know eleven years ago. First of all, we all have our shame and private lives that are withheld for many valid reasons. Your sister may have been protecting herself in any number of ways but ultimately it is her choice and her right. Since you have no children too, I am struck by your comments. Why do you feel entitled to know that? I am not trying to be insensitive to you but you asked the other person to say why he felt your attitude was wrong. I felt that way a little myself.

Rushing in to rescue seldom works. It seems to me that a gentle offer of concern to your sister and nephew is a starting place.

Beyond that, I think waiting and taking a not knowing position is better. We cannot know the details unless shared, we cannot know what others need and want unless told...so not knowing versus taking over like an expert with good intention can blow up in our face.
You sound like a wonderful caring person but sometimes we can't fix a situation. The persons themselves must want it first.

Best of luck to you,
Dan



Edited by Danbuff (12/21/08 10:12 AM)
Edit Reason: forgot to address by name
_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#268184 - 12/21/08 10:07 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: riz]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Christine:

It sounds like your nephew is or should be on some kind of long term supervision for offenses he did as a juvenile. Most states, however, don't put juvenile offenders on long term supervision (different from registration). Sexual offenders, even juveniles with multiple offenses, are required to register with the police for life, in some states, or long periods of time.

They may or may not be supervised. The reason this is important is that without supervison, they are not required to be in treatment or have probation/parole officers keeping track of them and their activities.

From your brief de>

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#268186 - 12/21/08 10:38 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6596
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
I think Ken illustrated it all very well. Treating an offender is not for well-intended amateurs (amateur in Sex Offender stuff).

I'm gonna toss in some items to be considered that may eliminate anyone's interest (in your home) in dealing with him.

1) If you actively seek to have him come live with you, provide him with employment, provide therapy expenses, etc...you and your husband may be civilly liable for any sex offenses committed while he's living in your home (even if they are revealed long after he no longer lives there)

2) I'm guessing he's going to have to register in your jurisdiction as an offender. That means your address will be listed. That means your neighbors, your town, your town's police, the schools, etc, will all know you have an offender in your house...and they ALL check the registry regularly.

3) If you have liability insurance, they may not cover you with him in the house (given that he's a convicted offender and required to register)

As a child victim of older boys, I feel like he has to have a demonstrated a true commitment to changing his life, make amends, and build a safe future. Current drug and alcohol use is a demonstration and proclamation in the opposite direction.

Rather than rush to rescue, how about opening a dialogue with him by letter/email to explore any desire or commitment to change, because i think HE actually has a much tougher road ahead of him than I have as a survivor. Its gonna take a heck of a lot of work to drop the drugs and fix his head.

_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

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#268195 - 12/21/08 12:29 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Still]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I agree with Robbie for the most part. However,
Quote:
2) I'm guessing he's going to have to register in your jurisdiction as an offender. That means your address will be listed. That means your neighbors, your town, your town's police, the schools, etc, will all know you have an offender in your house...and they ALL check the registry regularly.

may not be accurate. Not all registries list the exact address. Most states use a risk based system to put only the offenders rated as moderate or high risk and it is possible that he might not be placed on such a registry.

You can google "sex offender registries" + your state to see what kinds of information they list and possibly find out whether those with juvenile records are also listed.


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#268197 - 12/21/08 12:46 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6596
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW


You can google "sex offender registries" + your state to see what kinds of information they list and possibly find out whether those with juvenile records are also listed.


Here's a very good list of all states and links to the laws and the registries.

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/register.htm

NOTE: Years ago Massachusetts fought HARD to withhold any and all info from the public regarding Sex Offndr Reg. Even with the legal barrier, the Union Leader News Paper in NH got the MA registry data and published it online. I hear other state's similar efforts to withhold have been usurped this way as well.

_________________________
Objects In Mirror are Less Than They Appear.

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#268215 - 12/21/08 03:55 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
If he is an abuser, and also been abused, then he should have had psychiatric assessment before going to Court.
In prison he may have avoided psyche assessment, because it would
only focus on what he did, and not what happened to himself.
I don't think you will find a therapist who can divorce themselves
between the two, and work within any framework.
He would only ever get the help he needs, from a mental health unit.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#268259 - 12/21/08 11:11 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Thanks.


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#268263 - 12/21/08 11:48 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ChristineTrying]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Christine,

Everybody has the right to set the boundaries that are necessary for them to be safe. You are responsible for your families wellbeing and safety. You do not have to defend any decision that you make to to ensure this with anybody here or anywhere else. We all support you 100%.
About your sister not sharing the true facts about what was going on in her family. There is alot of shame and secrecey within families in regards to childhood sexual abuse. So it is alot easier to just ignore it which only causes it to fester and grow witin the person victimized. I also had alot of problems with alcohol and drugs to smooth the pain that I felt as a result of my abuse. He is coping in the best manner that he knows how. He is not At fault but he will have to deal with his csa and substances abuse problems if he is ever to get better.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Merry Christmas

Mike


_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#268272 - 12/22/08 05:54 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: michael banks]
fromtoday Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
Hi Christine,
Sorry just wanted to reply because I read you post yesterday, started a reply but then didn't post because I was afraid that maybe I needed to sleep on my reply, I'm willing to say that my first post was to tell him to ROT IN HELL.

Firstly can I just say that I absolutely think from what you have said that you are not the person to take in your nephew, mainly because of your husbands CSA, I know that for my husband to have contact with a sex offender regardless of the history would be a bad thing at the moment.

Secondly I think you are absolutely right about your sister, the reason many people are vunerable to abuse is because people don't step up to the mark when required, that doesn't mean you can't have sympathy with your sister, but to agree with her actions would be to accept that children should be put in vunerable positions. I could'nt forgive somebody who witheld information from me when they knew children could be at risk.

Thirdly, I think if you are to continue having contact with the family you need a more clear picture of events, mainly has he, or do they suspect that he has commited more offences recently.

Essentially we are looking at either a desperate abused boy who regretfully commited offences when he was too young to be accountable or an adult serial multiple sex offender. For me they are 2 very different people.

I have no sympathy for adult abusers, I don't believe they can be rehabilitated and I would enter a debate as to whether they should even be offered rehabilitation.

I think some posters were a little hard on you christine, I would ask them to consider that it's not just the victim who can be triggered but also their close asscoiates.

Good Luck thinking of you at this time.

_________________________
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, Look up to the skies and see.....
_________________________________________________
Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody

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#268275 - 12/22/08 07:45 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: fromtoday]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Christine,

I didn't hear you saying that you are trying to figure out whether or not to take your nephew in. I heard you struggling with thinking that maybe you "should" want to, or that other people would think you should take him. But I heard YOU state clearly that it wasn't an option for you.

I have a good friend whose Dad died a few years ago. He was at home till the end and they modified the family home to modify his wheelchair and other medical equipment. They have a large family and everyone was there all the time, helping to take care of him, along with the nursing staff.

You know what his wife did in the middle of all the pain and upheaval? She moved out. She moved out! I don't know what her relationship had been with her husband, how many years she had perhaps been tolerating a bad situation.

I don't know how much flack she got from the family, or how many people reading this would instictively judge her without knowing anything about her private story.

For some reason it is just an amazing action to me. Even if you look at it as cowardly or selfish or whatever else you could say about it, you know that lady was brave on some level for making such an unexpected and unpopular choice, because she knew what she had to do and she did it.

Today she maintains a loving relationship with all her kids and I can only that imagine she and her husband may have had some "understanding" that is not for public knowlegde. Or not.

Take care,

Riz


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#268278 - 12/22/08 08:51 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: riz]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Hello again Christine,
Wow, what a complex situation. Most are but this has layers and a lot of history mixed with strong emotion. You are most probably correct your nephew was abused.

I wonder how much the courts or officials actually know of the situation beyond the DWI because I don't assume to know that states always share information I sex offenders.My hunch is they do. But maybe they do not know the complete history that goes back to age eleven. That is a compelling reason to have help available. Registries are not enough. My thought is a court mandated situation that could require your nephew to be in counseling may be the only way to a first step at education, healing and recovery. From my point of view, it seems a court mandate may be the only solution and may require long transport services or even relocating him but NOT getting him help is not an option that makes sense. I suspect your nephew is in pain as well in spite of his horrible behaviors.

Riz is correct that you did not actually express taking your nephew in...but it seems there is and was pressure by the suggestion. I now understand why you felt a need to know when you babysit children. You clearly cannot accommodate your nephew as a guest much less as a boarder. The young man needs professional help more than a place to stay and find a job.

I hope your conversations can evolve with your sister into supportive dialogue...if she is receptive. Otherwise you may be closed out. It seems everyone involved needs support.

I am a survivor and I don't believe you lack empathy for the victims.. I think you show empathy and real concern. Otherwise you would not have reached out.

I wish you well and please visit and post as needed.
Peace to you,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#268281 - 12/22/08 09:10 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: Danbuff]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Christine,

I thought of one more example while I was in the shower :-)
My husband left me when that's what he needed to do. On top of the pain he already had, he had to handle the pain of knowing he was about to hurt someone that he loved.

Sadly, but unavoidably, I was not able to make it easier for him, since I did not understand the situation. All I felt was abandonment and as if I had done something wrong. But still he did it. As hurt as I was, and as much as people around me perhaps view him as an insensitive, selfish, jerk, I have lots of admiration for what he did.

True, I was hurt. But I do not own him and he does not own me. We love each other, but that is not the same as possession, control and figuring out the bills and household chores. I hope love transcends all that and the people who love you will want to respect you, and keep loving you, even if your opinion is unpopular at the time.

Riz


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#269630 - 01/01/09 05:53 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: riz]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Just to update everyone...I did it again. I gave my nephew a job, paying over $20 an hour. He never showed up. Every day I called him, he said yes, tomorrow. Well, it's been two weeks of tomorrows. Guess it's easier to guilt his mother into giving him money. Surprise, surprise. Not going to happen again. Some people cannot be helped.


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#269634 - 01/01/09 06:41 PM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: ChristineTrying]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Christine,

Most survivors are unable to accept help when offered. We are much too afraid of the strings that may come with such offers. And we are always sure that there are strings attached to everything in life. No matter who makes the offer. Nobody is trust worthy to a survivor. We see the world as us versus everybody else.

The most difficult aspect of recovery for me to this day is allowing myself to trust others. There is still a part of me who believes that I can't trust others. And I have to be aware of this tendency when interacting with others.

So true,why work for something when you can get it for free.
Who is responsibile for contiuing this situation?
What are they getting out of it?
Relationships are always a two way street.
No one will ever seek help as long as he has others who are enabling his self-destructive behaviors.

Just something to think about.

Mike



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#269779 - 01/03/09 08:58 AM Re: Can't deal with the news I've been handed [Re: michael banks]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Christine,

At least you did something at a level you felt comfortable with to try to give him a hand. Maybe that can give you some peace of mind, knowing you took a small step and it confirmed your knowing that he is not ready for the help you can offer.

My best to you and your family.

Riz


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