Newest Members
tammy m, TheConqueror, Bloom, JohnWC, KKumar
12423 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
dphoenix1701 (37), jaywiz2009 (69), mato (57)
Who's Online
2 registered (aniceguy, 1 invisible), 22 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12423 Members
74 Forums
63803 Topics
445532 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#267920 - 12/19/08 12:16 PM how do you see yourself as a sexual person?
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
hey guys let's take the topic out of the realm of judgment for a moment.

i started a similar thread in 'spirituality and survivors. i was just wondering:

are you interested in expressing your perspective, and share with us your idea of who you are as a sexual being. feel free to elaborate.

again, it's not meant to be a discussion, but rather a statement; not an argument nor an apologetic for or against any one particular orientation.

how do you see yourself as a sexual person????

do tell.......






_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#267946 - 12/19/08 01:51 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
nonchalant Offline


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 42
Loc: Northern Ireland, UK
Probably would've been best to wait until other people had replied, as i'm not the most philosophical of people but anyhow:

I see myself as bi-sexual because i have experienced arousal around both men and women, can get off to both men and women, and could have sex with both men and women

However, because of the fact i choose only to have sexual relations with those who i am in relationships with, and i only desire relationships with women, i identify as straight

I also see myself as very passive sexually, which fits with most aspects of my like. Much like i could never take control of a room of workers or a class full of children, i find it difficult to take control of someone sexually. I have a much smaller sexual appetite than most men my age, i would've thought, and it's pretty much at the bottom of my priority list



Edited by nonchalant (12/19/08 02:01 PM)

Top
#267968 - 12/19/08 03:36 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: nonchalant]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
how do I see myself as a sexual person????

Totally inadequate! I'm a guy therefor I am suppose to initiate the sex. The only time I will do that is if I am totally intoxicated. I did get married, but it has not worked out well.

Take care
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

Top
#267969 - 12/19/08 03:53 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: lostcowboy]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
I identify as straight and acknowledge that there could be a little bit of a gay or bisexual side to that in there, but since I've never had an encounter with another male besides my cousin, and I enjoy my female ones, I identify as straight. As far as sexually, I can't really feel good and enjoy sex unless I know the girl I'm with is enjoying it too. Also, although i definitely have a side to me that likes rough vigourous sex I also love to just slow down and feel close and kinda passionate, let it be about the both of us, not just me.


Top
#267971 - 12/19/08 04:13 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
Deleted



Edited by steveb121 (12/27/08 11:32 AM)
Edit Reason: deleted

Top
#267977 - 12/19/08 05:19 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: steveb121]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
I actually like the idea. We should just say everyone is pansexual. That way people wouldn't ever expect you to have sex with one gender or the other or with someone who used to be one and then switched etc. and so on. You could be whatever you want and nobody would hassle you for it, and I bet it'd get rid of a lot of the confusion people have to deal with. Maybe someday.

SteveB, that actually makes a tremendous amount of sense.


Top
#268017 - 12/19/08 10:17 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
I believe my sexual being, would best be described as: a loving straight twisted, rough, tender and androgenous spirit, leaning in a mostly submissive direction. (Orientated in a looking up and mostly out position).

How has my CSA affected this position?

I am not really sure.

(I could probably spend eternity trying to answer this question)...

...But with each passing day, I feel more at peace/serene with where I am at.


I was born a free spirit and will always long to live...WHERE EAGLES DARE...!!! (Statement)


Island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

Top
#268023 - 12/19/08 11:25 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: 1islandboy]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1970
For me, I know that I fantasize about women. I am able to recognize another man for being attractive, though I do not have thoughts of engaging in sexual activities with them. That said, I wouldn't go so far as saying that I know that I am purely straight and that if you questioned me on that that I could say definitively "I know, end of discussion". Though I'd rather not debate that thing and just let things be.

Outside of the situation with a peer (where I was initially violated), all my sexual activities have involved woman or girls. Admittedly some were not healthy, and they do not bring back pleasant memories, but when I really was attracted to the person both physically and emotionally (and the other person felt the same for me) it was a positive experience.

Right now, my attractions are to woman both romantically and physically, though I have trouble letting people in sometimes. I can the sense at times that a woman/girl is interested in me, but I can not usually muster the ability to do anything about it. I am able to flirt lightheartedly, but I don't take any action beyond that. Too much anxiety and other fears going on inside of me.

I am trying to deal with some of the damage I have done in my life (A crazy example, but I busted my 5th metacarpal while drunk about 9 years ago; I have a shortened metacarpal and sometimes stiff joint there that reminds me of my damage I have done. I know, there are worse things people are dealing with, but I have all these little things that remind me of the chaos that I have lived through -- though, that being said I know that others have had it much tougher than me and I really shouldn't complain.) How does that make it harder for me to engage with women? It just reminds me that I wasted my twenties and also a good part of my thirties with this stuff in a destructive way. It is hard to get back in the game. I am dealing for example with the realization I wasted away the years I might have wanted to start a family. Yes, I know I can still do that physically, but I digress. The point is I suppose that at a younger age I might have been able to go out and find girls looking to shag, but I'm a little too old to be thinking too much along those lines these days. Things just changed, and I was too messed up to evolve with all that. I regret not having been able to have romantic relationships in my twenties and earlier thirties; I was too crazy and messed up. Any girl that did get close to me didn't stick around probably because I couldn't let them in. And that was in my early twenties, after that they didn't have interest anymore (and the ones that did I couldn't take notice). I just don't even know how to deal, and imagine getting in a relationship and then I'm constantly stuck on my regrets, my damages and a past I can not change. This does affect things.

Hopefully I can deal with my regrets and find peace with myself and the past. I am interested in women both romantically and sexually, and when I am not self-loathing it is more likely that that kind of relationship will transpire.

Eric



Edited by ericc (12/20/08 03:09 AM)
Edit Reason: added some additional info for clarity

Top
#268044 - 12/20/08 03:42 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: ericc]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
For many years following my abusive childhood I tried to avoid sex. I thought that I was straight but I also had gay tendencies. Until my late 20s the only sex that I had was under the influence of drugs or alcohol and my only relationship that lasted more than a couple of weeks was a gay revictimization-type of relationship with a close friend who had also been abused. I hid behind my walls and tried to avoid the subject mostly.

I got married at the age of 31 towards the end of my first attempt at therapy for the wrong reasons. I had known my 1st wife for several years before she broke-up with a friend of mine then threw herself at me. It was a tough experience trying to lower my walls and let her in, while trying to progress in my early recovery. I never told her what I was going through and was then too frightened of the consequences of doing so. I spent a lot of that relationship hiding and trying to put up a false exterior emboldened by lots of alcohol and drugs. She left me 2 & 1/2 years later after she found-out about my CSA and I retreated behind my walls into a deep depression which lasted 7 years. Toward the end of that time I did have a live-in sexual relationship with a Hispanic crack whore in the worst part of town. Our addictions and desire to get abused while tweaked-out of our brains was all that we had in common.

Since recovery I (like Steve) have grown to the point where I have the ability to have choice in my sexual relationships. I have spent the last 6 & 1/2 years in two monogamous heterosexual sexual relationships, the 2nd of which has proceeded to marriage. I found my eventual 2nd wife on Match.com, and we have been together since early 2006. We love and care deeply for each other, and we have great hope for our future together unhindered by my past.

Dealing with my fears and shame, coming out of my shell, and recovering or learning and eventually practicing the ability to make my own decisions and choices regarding sexual relationships, has been one of the greatest personal benefits of finding my freedom, and has been of great benefit to my self-esteem and social confidence. My search for freedom was a long and winding road strewn with potholes and so many times I just wanted to give-up. But I finally stuck with it long enough to find my way out. I left my troubles behind, treated my addictions, let-go of my anger and fear, and began to take greater chances in my life. If it wasn't for a lot of help and understanding from a number of caring and supportive people I doubt that I would be here to tell my story.

Alone we can't, together we can.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#268045 - 12/20/08 04:08 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Trucker51]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
I don't view myself as a sexual person. I'm not a like a child where sex is something completely foreign to me, but I don't desire to have sex. For me, sex is just something I do to please others. I'm not particular about it though, so I suppose I'm bisexual.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

Top
#268048 - 12/20/08 05:13 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.






Top
#268050 - 12/20/08 05:16 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Trucker51]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK

Deleted






Top
#268065 - 12/20/08 09:25 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
boy, i am bit overwhelmed by the amount of insight and honesty you have with regard to your sexual identity. thanks for sharing that guys.

my sexual identity process has pretty much much unfolded along these lines:

age 0 to ? : frustration
loved and wanted to be close to mom [a lot of competition tho; as the second born of 8 who survived, she carried 12 pregnancies to full term, so needless to say wasn't a lot of one-on-one time with her, if any]

around age 11 : awakening
joined scouts: i was in boy heaven. that's when i knew that there was something different about me in relation to other boys. i just was not interested in what they were doing, but rather was attracted to them, but in a way i did not understand. i wanted more of them than i felt i was 'supposed' to want.
a new family moved into the neighborhood; i was not much into male friends at the time; there were a lot of boys in the neighborhood, but i developed a relationship with two of them: jimmy and joey. i did not feel sexual toward jimmy but i was head over heels for joey, and i didn't start to think about him sexually in a physical sense until after my older brother had started to use me for sex.

12 and on: emerging
in 8th grade [even though in my own mind i had my 'boyfried', joey, it seemed necessary to project an image of liking girls, so out of fear i started to construct this false me as a person who seemed heterosexual. [i was already suppressing my true orientation] when i went to the 8th grade dance, i heard that 'kitty' liked me, and so i asked her to dance. it was an odd moment, but since we danced together that made us boyfriends and girlfriends for the rest of the year. we never kissed or anything like that though.

my brother's abuse started around that time, and it was around 9th grade that i began to fantasize about joey and other boys in our class. our high school was not co-ed, so i spent the whole day with males, except for recess and band.

my world further expanded when i began working at the age of 14, and became exposed to a wider spectrum of male types. i soon worked at the local university in the dining room during my high school years, and so i was now around a lot of late adolescent college types, and older males representing a variety of economic and social strata. they were fascinating to me.

i started to like barbara streisand........... ;-)

one night, when we were sleeping in a tent in the back yard, joey tried to grab my crotch and initiate sex; i was terrified and pulled away. in my own heart and mind i wanted more than sex with him; i wanted something pure, and did not want to destroy the purity of what i felt for him. i did not know that then, but i do now. my brother had already poisoned me to the wonderful sharing of mutual affection that can be shared between two people, since he initiated me in objectification and secrecy and shame.

later on in high school, it became fashionable in the neighborhood to have a girlfriend or boyfriend. joey chose mary lou [who would later become my wife] and i chose bobbie. we spent time kissing and making out in the hammock on the porch and bobbie had voluptuous breasts which were intriguing, and i got to fondle them while we were necking. the sexual heat was pretty intense of a couple of kids our age but still, no tendency to seek out the vagina.

18 and onward:
joined the navy, came out in boot camp where i met no less than 4 flamers!; on liberty we went to the chicago 'y' got drunk and had our dicks sucked by strangers. abuse? i definitely was not thinking about relationship with women, since i was now free from the tethering cultural circle i was locked into while at home with my family.

at age 19 i began to be pretty promiscuous, and by age 20 had been raped several times, and the worst was when i cornered and had a knife held to my throat. that one is hard to relive. but so far, i have not had any type of 'relationship' to speak of. just serial sexual experiences and lots of fantasizing.

i was released from the service in my 20th year, went back home, fully identified as gay and was just waiting for my 21st birthday so i could start drinking at public bars.

age 21
my perp brother died which signaled an era of confusion for me. just weeks before he died he ended the sexual relationship that had intermittently over the last 8 years. the rejection was confusing and devastating.

in response i went 'straight' and started doing what my other brothers were doing: getting married. although their marriages came about because of unexpected pregnacies, i married mary lou; joey had moved to california, and i heard from him never again. what a better way to be close to the memory of him than to marry one of his ex girlfriends? what a tangled web we weave.

age 23
me and mary lou married. she was aware of my sexual abuse history, and i thought that she was 'safe' since she had been entrusted with information that was very personal. well, she had her own issues that had not been dealt with.

it was at that time that i got involved accidentally in church music, and because our emotional lives were so messed up, we used the new society to hide and avoid confronting our joint pain. neither one of our families thought much of psychologists, and her mom already had a secret in her life that caused her on several occasion to be admitted to the psych ward in the local hospital.

23-31 [the miserable years]
tried to make the marriage work, but the demons of guilt and shame won! thankfully though, i felt worse about having my kids brought up in the context of a relationship that modeled dysfunction. i wanted them to have better than i did. so me and the mom, after a bout with therapy, split.

31 and beyond [the recovery years]
recovery from every addiction imaginable. yes even recovery from recovery.
tho in the early stages, about 7 years into it, i began to wonder if my sexual identity had been confused as a result of having been molested, and allowed myself to get involved in a relationship with marie. there was really no emotional involvement, and sexually, there was no interest, but looking back i can see it was just out of boredom and fear of having no other option that i entertained the possiblity----i figured i should give it one more shot! luckily, it ended 2 years after it started, after i realized that she was merely looking for someone to punish for what her ex-husband had done to hurt her.

that was back in 94, and i have not backsliden since then. :-)
actually i was in two 5 year relationship [that's really a stretch to call them that ] with a couple of guys, but there again, i was looking for love in all the wrong places. sexually i felt obliged to accommodate their desires and that drove a wedge between us. what i have learned about myself, is that i can't abide the shortcut method to automatic trust in a relationship. trust happens and gets built into the supergenes of a relationship over a thousand exchanges.

today i accept my sexuality as being what it is, however, i find myself less attracted initially to people in general, and was surprised recently to feel a mini crush on one of the guys who goes to the church i work for.

i have a hard time determining in a given situation if it is my sexual energy being broadcast, or if what i am feeling is a transmission from another person.

at any rate, i still like males a lot, and find them so fascinating and interesting, and often times get the urge to unwrap them.

funny thing sexual energy. i try not to let it go to my big head these days.

well, guys, you really didn't expect a short answer from me now, did you? whistle

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#268075 - 12/20/08 11:15 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Damn, that's quite a story there. Good on you for managing to stay sane, I don't think I know many people who could have gone through all of that.


Steve, what I like about that definition of sexuality is that in my own head if I say "Yeah, I'm DEFINITELY straight" then my brain automatically goes "well then prove it" and I have go through these entire processes of having to examine my sexuality, which take a lot of time out of me living my life. But if I say I'm mostly straight but that I may have some bisexual tendencies my brain doesn't usually spend any time thinking about it.

Personally though I was always really unsure of what I was until I was probably 20, then I started to see that for most of my life even though I had some homosexual thoughts and tendencies I was more consistently heterosexual in just about all of my behavior. Then I started looking for answers as to why, even though I had always like girls when I was a really little kid, I had had fantasies or thoughts about doing these things with make friends of mine and in one night it all just fell in my lap.


I was stoned out of my mind, the highest I had ever been, on pot from a New York delivery service that I had smoked out of a friends vaporizer, and it brought back everything that I knew was there but had never thought about. I had vivid hallucinations when I closed my eyes that I was being violently raped, and the perp was saying "Yeah, you love that, I know you do you effing homo" and I was like "no, I'm not gay" in my head but after a while I just gave up trying to fight with that hallucination. As a result, I had a panic attack that lasted for three days where I felt disembodied like I was literally floating outside my body. Then I realized it was the years of abuse, not my true orientation. I guess the place I'm at now is one where I'm trying to let my heterosexual identity be there without fighting it and coming to terms with my past abuse and integrating it with my present self. It's a bitch though, especially since I'm dealing with a porn addiction and a general fear of being social when girls are around. I sit there and think how beautiful they are, but then I cut my thoughts off there and I'm too afraid to approach em. I'm working like a fiend to get over it though.


Anyways, I think this just goes to show how complex sexuality can really be. Kudos to the OP for making this.


Top
#268080 - 12/20/08 12:26 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1970
First off, I'm sorry if I sounded like a whiner in my first post on this thread; my story is hardly a tough-lucky story compared to some I have heard. Though I suppose it is true that "for each of us, it was the worst thing that could have happened" (or something like that I read here once).

I like the idea of not needing to prove ones sexuality. If I look at my past, some of my behaviors both sexually and otherwise were probably driven by that need. I don't need to do that, and it doesn't jive with the person I want to be. I'll do what I need to do to maintain boundaries, but I want to be able to just let myself be me otherwise.

Andy, your story about being stoned and having some recollections and the related panic attack ring true to how I opened up to my memories. It was the last day of my freshman year in college (spring 1991). I had just taken my last final exam, an intro to astronomy class. I got through it quick and knew I had aced it. I went back to my dorm room and dropped a hit of acid. I thought it was going to be this beautiful spring day and I would have a blast. All of a sudden I started asking myself too many questions: why does the pepsi can "melt" like that? what are those colors in the ceiling tiles all about? Then things went downhill from there. I was losing control and I realized I hadn't packed up to leave for home that next morning (we had to load a trailer). Also, that sunny day turned into a torrential downpour. I was freaking out. And then I was overwhelmed by this thought: I feel gay. No rational reason for it, it just was. I started seeing everything as phallic symbols (yes, I took the perquisite intro to psychology class that year). People were commenting that I looked scared but I could not share; I was holding on for dear life, surrounded by people who were laughing and conversing - but I sense something wrong in it all, and there was some veil of personality I was noticing in everything.

Anyway, it threw me off for days and anytime I got high after that I was put back into that panic place. What happened is, that afternoon and night on acid I opened a floodgate. But it took through that summer to remember I had those homosexual experiences with a peer that included most of what you think in regards to sex acts. I remembered other problematic memories as well. All this slowly ate away at me, and I kept getting high because I thought it was my identity but it always put me in a place of terror mentally and my mind spun out of control. Things got worse from there I suppose.

Eric


Top
#268089 - 12/20/08 01:45 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
mapleleafsn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Eastern Canada
At this present time in my life I could be concidered asexual. I have no attraction or interest in sex. Thus causing my wife great distress. I do not feel that I was always this way and with the therapy and recovery for csa I believe that a healthy attitude toward sexual intimacy and intercourse will be rediscovered.

Throughout my teens I was for the most part really confused about my sexuality. I looked at both sexes and found them attractive in the sense of the physical beauty of the human form and in a desire for sexual experience. I allowed myself to conform to the hetro designate that our community displayed due to ignorance or openmindedness to anything else. I was secretly a bisexual I think. In order to hide my confusion and fear of ridicule from family and friends I forced myself to side with the hetro. It wasn't until later in my early 20's that I had a homosexual experience that was of my own choice. This did not fulfil me as I thought it would and I returned to looking for the hetrosexual lifestyle.

I was questioned by my T on this subject quite throughly before I read my story to my wife. You see, I was terribly afraid of what her reaction would be to the events of my early 20's. After that lenghthy discussion with the T I have come to the conclusion that I do indeed feel the desire to be with a woman and not a man.

However I still suffer the effects of csa and have such a inferiority complex of myself and my ability to 'really please' a woman in a sexual way and of opening up my heart to letting anyone in emotionally that my libido is shamefully absent from my life.

This may not sound like a very happy situation to be in to anyone that is reading this post. Please don't take it to be more than what it really is. It is a recongition of where I am at this time in my life. I fully believe that my libido will increase as my recovery and selfesteem, awareness, and mental health increases. I have had some discussions with my wife, Yes I am even opening up to her, around this very important issue in our marriage and she is prepared to help me to rediscover my desire for sex as I progress.. It is kinda like starting all over really. This time I won't have to be stinking drunk to quell the fears and anxieties that I have always had regarding myself, my body and how to express my desire for sexual activity.

The story of recovery is always churning out new and life giving awarenesses with every step.

Blessing to all and thank you for your unjudgemental kindness and support.

Steve

_________________________
When the pain of remaining the same finally outweighs the pain of change---things will begin.... life is meant to be enjoyed not endured.

Top
#268109 - 12/20/08 05:35 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: mapleleafsn]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
I too am straight for my sexual attraction is toward females. But there has been I few times when I have with really good male friends that I have felt some physical attraction towards them. But never initate anything because of the taboo of being gay that I was brought up with.
In my family my parents never showed any type of affection and I had no clue that there was even such a thing as sex. All I knew is that every couple of years there would be another brother.
In all the time I lived with my parents I never saw or heard them having sex.

My initation into sex was with my fifth grade teacher Mr Candell. It felt good and repulsive at the same time. I don't know how but I knew what he was doing was wrong but I didn't have anyone I felt enought to tell what was happening. So I l;earn that sex was a repulsive and dirty secret to be kept to myself. The last time I was abused by him he forced me to stand in the bathroom and watch hiw masturbate into the tiolet. It was the most repulsive,fasnating and arousing thing that I ever happen to me to thay point in my life. And it really affected my view on sex. Not to long after I was abused I was at my school playing and I found a picture of a naked woman lying on her back with her legs wide open holding her vargina wide open. I felt those feeling of being replused,fasnated and aroused again. it was liked that image had been seared into my mind just like the last time with Mr.Candell.

When I got to the age where sex and women began to interest me. Some how I found some porn and I was off to the races. Most of my adult life porn has been my sexual outlet because I felt safer just beating off to porn. It was just me and the porn and I felt nobody was getting hurt.Besides I had no social skills or trust in other people and I only interacted with other to do those things that I had to do. Mostly to obtain drugs or work.

In jr. High there was a girl who liked me and try pursuing me but her attention scared the hell out of me and I rejected her advances. She was hurt and tried to start a fight with me and for awhile I did my best to just avoid her. She thought that was something wrong with me. She didn't know how right she was.
In high school I never dated the fear was just to great to risk allowing anyone close to me. Plus I could satified myself with porn. And my only sexual experiences were with girls when I was drunk and high. Just heavy petting and never intercourse.
During this time a set of pattern of living that went on till I was twenty nine- drugs,alcohol and porn.
I joined the Marine Corps when I turned 18 and was sent to Okinawa for a year and I contiue my relationship with these three things. My friends and I would go out to the town on payday to drink in the bars and they would hit the whore houses. The whole year I was there I only went into the whore house twice. and I found the experience to totally repulsive. She was a middle aged women,older then my mother. I could not climax and so I just gave up. The second time was at a place near Kanteena airforce base on a side street called whisper alley. You would walk down this narrow street and a woman would open a small window and whisper to you to see if you were interested in some business.
If you did she would open a door so you could come into a bedroom and would do to you what you requested. I got a blowjob and for the first time in my life a women made me climax. But during and afterwards I felt those old feelings of replusion and arousal.
In january of 1981 I was transfered to Camp Pentleton Ca. Where I carried on the pattern of behaior that I had always lived.
One night my buddies and I were down on the beach in Oceanside Ca and we were drinking Jack Daniels and So.Comfort and we met these two girls who partied with us. After awhile one of the girls let me know that she was interested in being alone with me. So we took off in her car and parked and started to make out she wanted me to have intercoarse with her but I was too drunk to get an erection and I felt too much anxiety. So she gave me her phone # and told me to call her. But I never did because I felt humiliated because I could not be a real man. So I retreated back into my old safe pattern of behavior.
This pattern with women happen a few more times.
Then I met my first wife in a bar on the top floor of the Holiday Inn in Long Beach Ca. I was there with a friend we had drinking and I asked her to dance we. We had a few more drinks and we went to her house and had sex. I was unable to climax again but it seem no big deal to her so we fell asleep.
We start seeing each other and I was able to overcome my anxiety and we had a very satisfing sex life. Things were good for the first few years until we started having problems and fighting. Her anger scared me and I withdrew into myself. I started living that pattern of solitary life that had learned so earily in my life. As I stay withdrawn from her she got more and more angry and I retread more and more until it was too late to save the marriage.
Even in my present marriage I am back into that cycle of anger and withdrawnal again. In the last year we have had very little personal interaction and less sex.

I AM BACK TO JUST BEING PRESENT PHYSICALLY.
Time to address and change an old pattern.

Guys sorry I strayed off the topic.

Ron, thanks for the thread and the wake up call.

Mike










_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#268202 - 12/21/08 01:09 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: michael banks]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Alright, so I don't know what to do about this. I really don't enjoy looking at gay porn on the internet, but everytime I look at it I feel really really anxious, like afraid anxious, and then even if I don't want to I get an erection, even though I know I'm not attracted to any of whats going on. But then I force myself to get off to it, and once I do it's like theres this voice or part of my personality thats telling me to get MORE into it when I know after all this time it's not what I'm into, it's like I can't just leave it alone and walk away from it, because my head gets this impulse where it's like "you HAVE to look or you're just going to keep feeling more and more agitated and unsure". And then of course I'm a trainwreck afterwards because all the work I'm doing in therapy is going down the shitter every time this happens. Really if it weren't for that one issue that I seem to have trapped myself into repeating, I wouldn't even be questioning my orientation. This is driving me nuts. Does anybody else have this problem or know what I'm talking about?


Top
#268203 - 12/21/08 01:22 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Andy,

:-)


What if you thought of it, considered the possibility that it is not who you are but, rather...what was done to you?

My experiences are such that, if I keep coming back to something over and over, well, it must be important.

And, I don't know that all the work you are doing is going down the shitter each time it happens...do you think?

I used to do that, too...have a bad day and negate all the hard work I had allready invested.

What if...you thought of it as, you are getting closer to what you need?


:-)


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

Top
#268204 - 12/21/08 01:25 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.


Top
#268205 - 12/21/08 01:38 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: steveb121]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Thanks guys. I'd made a ton of progress and hadn't been around em for about a month in a half, but now that exams are over and I'm home and snowed in the boredom sets in and with it the questions. Both my therapists have told me that it's likely acting out, but it still bothers me. I gotta go snowblower the drive way, then I'll probably feel better. I gotta go do something though. Thanks a ton guys.

-god bless,
Andy


Top
#268206 - 12/21/08 01:58 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
nonchalant Offline


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 42
Loc: Northern Ireland, UK
I've been toying with the belief lately that predominately heterosexual survivors who still have sex with men or get off to gay porn, may have a fetish for the male body (set in motion by the abuse) rather than any substantial attraction for men

Any time i say it, a voice in my head goes "wise up, who the hell would believe you if you said you were straight but had a fetish for the naked male body?" but the more i think about it in depth, the more i think it makes sense


Top
#268207 - 12/21/08 02:06 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: steveb121]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I lived my life Straight for the majority of my life. When my brother was sexually abusing me for a perod of over 5 years, all I can remember is that it was dirty, nasty, wrong, sickening and most of all felt such guilt for what I thought back then, that I had control over. Now of course I know differently. I was just a little kid who was being used. He of course told me this was normal stuff between brothers and that if I ever told anyone he would do worse stuff to me. I had no desire to ever know what that might be. So I kept it a secret.

In my later teens and most of my adult life I lived as a straight man. I have 7 siblings all married off and on over the years. How could I be Gay? I had and acted the only way I knew was acceptable. And that was straight. I married, have 2 wonderful kids and divorced some 20 years ago.

For me all this time of my life I lived a life of lies to myself. I always enjoyed and got off on porn. I always enjoyed looking at the guys more than the girls. I always wondered what it would be like to have sex with a guy. But I always told myself that I shouldn't be thinking this way. I told myself it was wrong. So I thought, but all the while lurking behind the thoughts of THIS IS NOT WHO I REALLY AM. I was not being true to myself.

Since I have come out to the world and to myself that I am a gay man, my life has been remarkable! Sure, I have problems like most people do. Life is definitely not perfect. Who's life is that has to deal with CSA? But as far as how I see myself as a sexual person; I am gay, I am finally content in my mind of who I am. I am no longer living a lie to myself. I am totally honest with myself and with my friends and family. The guilt and fear of feeling unwanted, feeling isolated, feeling that I am different, no longer bugs me. I am who I am and I am proud of that.

I am in a loving relationship with my partner. We love each other for who we are and not for what we want each other to be.

Thanks for this post. It was not easy to put my thoughts into words. But It is definitely a healing experience for me.

Thanks for listening

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

Top
#269094 - 12/28/08 07:43 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: jacobtk]
Puzzled Offline


Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 18
Hey Gang, I have had a life time of sex with both gender but with women I felt love with men it was purely sexual. I have been in T for 18 months and have had no sex and I really want to get this worked out because with either sex its all been unhealthy. I have alot of issues from being sexually abused by my older brother from 9-11years old.


Top
#269100 - 12/28/08 08:37 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Puzzled]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
This is a fantastic thread.

Being in a 6 month long relationship that is strong and clearly focused on communication, respect, being present, and... god forbid- FUN, this topic has been coming up a lot for me. Who am I sexually? As a sexual being? Seems more appropriate to ask- who have I been sexually!?

My abuse began intensely at 8 y/o and I rally start remembering it solidly once I am 10 or 11 and my sister is out of the picture, just me, and the set up is well established and it seems all my doing. There was also pornography involved then, both during the abuse and given me to take home.

I am gay. I dated women until freshman year of College while secretly having encounters with men, the continuation of my first outside-of-my-family public molestation in a bathroom at 11 or 12. I struggled and struggled and struggled- I hear thoughts I've had echoed in so many of these posts. Trying to "figure" it all out. I am also a dancer, something that I know was provided to me not just for a career or for creativity, but as another tool for getting back to my body. That being said- I am realizing that I love sex, as it is meant to feel good. I am with someone who is with me in a healthy way during sex and is open enough for me to go through what may come up. I have hang-ups... I have times of believing my thoughts that I am inadequate and he can't possibly want to be with me, even as he is. I realize I had lived my life by the lessons I learned through pornography of what it meant to be a man- big this and that, sex, end scene, more sex, various locales and situations and numbers of people, end scene, more sex... that is what a man is good for, what I learned I was good for and what men would want me for... I'm not an adonis so there is always some proximity to men bigger and more manly than me who, even if it's just on the street, seem to have more power than me.

But, wait... that is NOT who I am sexually or as a sexual being. Those are the things I struggle with as a survivor of CSA. I think it is important to begin, and I really am acknowledging this for myself for the first time, to separate out the two. Just as there was always an innocent boy, there too is a an innocent body. I didn't get the change to grow into sexual feelings and discovery... but in a way, I've been spared. I get to do it now as an adult with more to help me along as I go through a late phase of seeking out my own version of "adolescent awkwardness" around sex.

I struggle with how to be a gay man with "attraction." I have fears of where attractions will lead... what it will mean for my relationship... what does it mean about me... But I'm 29. I imagine the mirage or the finish-line is years and years away. I love my boyfriend and having sex with him... and even, now more than before (especially when porn was the constant), sex alone with myself.

Who am I sexually? A fiery lover who seek to know more fully that sex is about connection and more than physical traits or actions, but that physical sensation doesn't have to be scary or overwhelming in a bad way. A sensitive guy who wants to give himself permission to explore playfully every time in sex he freezes up wondering, "what do I do?" A man who was sexually abused and deserves to feel free, comfortable, and happy with his body and how he expresses his sexuality... as much as a non-survivor. And in that regard, I add this: One whose sexual joys he doesn't take for granted, having had to work for them... and knowing when they were non-existent.

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

Top
#269104 - 12/28/08 08:50 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
AndyS87,

YES. I know what you are talking about. I felt like I was reading one of many many many journal entries of my life. Reading this took me back to times when I would sit in front of the computer debating... trying to make deals with myself... trying to tell myself what was going on was this or this or this. It reminds me of the biggest struggle as a teenager- if I was abused does that mean I'm gay? If I am gay doesn't that mean I wanted the abuse? If I got an erection or enjoyed it or was drawn to it- did it mean I wanted "it?" It being the original abuse, then each incident in public restrooms starting at 11... then sex with men as I grew older... No one can give that answer. No one could give it to me, anyways. Or maybe it's that no one did. I had to live into it.

"even though I know I'm not attracted to any of whats going on."

This really resonated with me because for me it reminded me to remember for myself when I thought this... and how for so long I couldn't realize that as a child being abused- attraction was never part of it. I was abused before I could grow into my first feelings of sexual attraction. I was programed before my body changed and caught up to the actions I was a part of... as a teenager I was so so so confused on what attraction even was!!! I didn't even know what it felt like- even now at 29 I have issues of distinquishing sexual attraction with some other feelings that feel escapist or compulsive or just power-based. This is hard shit to get through!! It's genuinely confusing, I know!

This struggle is not your fault. This confusion is not your fault. And though it may not seem like it- it is normal. "Normal" for survivors of sexual abuse, and if that is you as it would seem, then it is your normal. We don't make this "trap" to repeat. We don't make the trainwreck we as kids found ourselves boarded on. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

Believe me, I so have been there. I know it feels horrible and I too have beat myself up feeling like every millimeter of progress or sense of hope I gained was destroyed to bits when I would go back online or find myself sitting alone in my room debating myself about what to do. I can tell you that it can get better, easier, be different.

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

Top
#269190 - 12/29/08 12:38 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: DMCarrollG]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Yeah, I mean it's been confusing for me, and I can't imagine what it was like for you. As confused as I was and have been, I don't believe myself to be homosexual. I can clearly and easily trace a line from certain sexual behaviors to anything that might have ever made me think I was gay. That and the realization that I've never had a crush on any men I've known or wanted to be with any men I've known as anything other than friends of mine, different stories with girls.


I can't imagine the confusion that all of that must have caused you though, if you truly did want to be and were in love with other guys but you had the abuse backed up telling you all that other shit.

For me, things have been getting better this week as I've been calming down more. Holidays are always tough for me because that was typically when I was molested since that's when my cousin was around, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. I keep saying this about myself, but I think it applies to a lot of people here. I personally felt like after I fully recalled everything in my life that was going wrong and started talking about it, I just broke emotionally into all these pieces. I guess you could say I shattered. Now I'm trying to just put myself back together again. Once I manage that successfully, I'll be able to move on.



Oh yeah forgot to add this part, I know what you mean about attraction and all that. I can honestly still say I've never had a relationship where I've ever fallen in love. At 21, I probably have as much sexual experience as the average 15 or 16 year old. When I was a teenager and looking for ways to get laid, thinking about relationships never entered into my mind. Those were there just so you could get laid I thought. I really regret that instead of me being able to discover sex like normal kids do I ended up having it dumped on me when I was too young to realize what any of it was about.



Edited by AndyS87 (12/29/08 12:41 PM)

Top
#269263 - 12/29/08 10:28 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
Glad to hear things have gotten a bit lighter for you. Yes, you are not alone either in the holiday abuse- late afternoon, time to go upstairs to my cousins room, every family gathering. Kind of crazy throwing knowing abuse is going to go down the day you get to open presents!

Gay, straight, bi- none of that matters really- what matters is getting to feel comfortable with who we want to be with- yes, fall in love with and such. 21? No worries- give yourself permission to fall in love when ever you do! And trust me... early loves are nothing compared to what comes later as you are further along in everyway!

all the best,

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

Top
#269281 - 12/30/08 12:20 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: DMCarrollG]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Yeah, I really want to try and meet people now but I just don't know if I'm ready for that kind of thing. I'm not a relationship hopper either, if I find somebody worthwhile I tend to try and keep things going as long as I can, and that currently might not be a great thing, I feel like I would be too dependent. That aside, I'm also a bit of an idiot with women, what can I say, hahaha. I feel like I'm still in seventh grade. Fortunately for me, I'm patient so I'm in no rush. Thank you for words, I can definitely relate to that, except instead of my cousins room it was my room or the bathroom at grandma's house upstairs and out of the way of everybody else. Fucked up yeah?

Again, thanks for the support. Be well.


Top
#269317 - 12/30/08 08:30 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
I identify as straight, I find women attractive and dated only women, although I will recognize when a man is handsome. However, I have sought approval, acceptance, and emotional love from men and have acted-out when they gave that love to me; this I attributed to the lack of love from my father and the CSA and has gotten me in trouble a couple of times. I get turned-on instantly by women but can be turned-on by physical contact by men. I am more passive sexually but will be aggressive if my appetite is up. Sometimes I will identify as bi-sexual but I choose to live as straight.

Juni

_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

Top
#269420 - 12/30/08 07:29 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Juni]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2018
Loc: durham, north england
I'm very definite on how I see myself in this area.

distinctly streight, definitely a virgin (unless you count my sa), and absolutely petrified!

Sorry this is a bit brief, ---- I find writing here difficult but I really think I probably should to recover properly. I'll try a full topic when I can because I'm sure people here can give me some advice.


Top
#269692 - 01/02/09 12:14 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Sans,

Thank you for starting this topic.

I can relate to other men' words, but I also want to say for myself. I am 25, and the last time I had sex was more than a year ago, and seven years had been sexless before.

I am mostly concerned that I would have to find ways to have a place where to have sex, if I decided to have it at any price. I live with parents, and I just do not have space for this, and what to do?

Besides the said, I have not got a girlfriend who would let me know she wants my sex. I broke relationships with my last sex partner, and I did it for a reason.

I shall pray and ask God to help me have a woman and sex with her.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

Top
#276624 - 02/22/09 04:35 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: nonchalant]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
Nonchalant said: "I've been toying with the belief lately that predominately heterosexual survivors who still have sex with men or get off to gay porn, may have a fetish for the male body (set in motion by the abuse) rather than any substantial attraction for men"

I am wondering about this idea said by nonchalant. No one seemed to reply to it directly. Is this me, I wonder?

I have never felt an emotional attraction to a male, only sexual desire. I never desired to kiss a male. I've never felt in love with a male partner. But I have felt a sexual attraction, and often fixated on the male body part(s). But nuthin' beyond that, and I always was puzzled about it.

Anyone seeing something that I am not, for what I described for me or their own experience. Thanks.


Top
#276646 - 02/22/09 06:50 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: brother2none]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN


I have never felt an emotional attraction to a male, only sexual desire. I never desired to kiss a male. I've never felt in love with a male partner. But I have felt a sexual attraction, and often fixated on the male body part(s). But nuthin' beyond that, and I always was puzzled about it.

Same here. I don't feel emotional attraction to other men, but I do feel sexual desire toward them. It's after effects from CSA. And it's been a bitch trying to overcome it.


Top
#276691 - 02/22/09 08:56 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: christianfather]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
How do you know it is after effects? I'd appreciate if you can elaborate.

For what it's worth, I am not looking to explain away my desires, rather I'm seeking to understand more.


Top
#276807 - 02/23/09 07:11 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: brother2none]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
****TRIGGERS****

From talking to my counselor regarding the feelings I was have with same sex attractions, he explained it in a manner so I could understand it.

During the times I was being raped I was being told it would feel good, it feels good, I wanted it. I would like it... You get the point I'm sure. Since my body kept responding to the stimuli. And I started believing the lies they told me. They brained washed us into believing that what they were doing was OK and that we enjoyed and wanted it.

Now we are left to straighten it out, and get everything back to the way it was suppose to be in our individual lives.


Top
#277689 - 03/01/09 08:27 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: christianfather]
pemac01 Offline


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 25
Loc: Texas
I feel pretty much the same in regard to men but my T says I have very Hyper sexual behaviors towards women which caused a HUGE problem in my marrage.
Never acted out with men but the number of female partners I acted out with was embarrassingly high. My wife asked why and I could never give her an answer because I never knew why I did it, even though I took responsibility for what I did. We are both a little more at peace with the whole thing now and I have a little better understanding of why I do some of the things I do.



Originally Posted By: christianfather


I have never felt an emotional attraction to a male, only sexual desire. I never desired to kiss a male. I've never felt in love with a male partner. But I have felt a sexual attraction, and often fixated on the male body part(s). But nuthin' beyond that, and I always was puzzled about it.

Same here. I don't feel emotional attraction to other men, but I do feel sexual desire toward them. It's after effects from CSA. And it's been a bitch trying to overcome it.



Top
#277691 - 03/01/09 08:59 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: pemac01]
royjay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 12
Loc: illinois
I feel numb at times and use sex or gay porn. to feel a live. do any one understand what I'm talking about? I just discovered this truth.

_________________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your permission

Top
#277692 - 03/01/09 09:08 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: royjay]
royjay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 12
Loc: illinois
how do you deal with straight men flirting with you? I'm not sure of my response!!

_________________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your permission

Top
#277908 - 03/02/09 07:59 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: royjay]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
The only thought at the moment is "Intimacy" with oneself is difficult. To learn who you are without the input from a very complex and difficult world, is impossible. I just wish you a little peace on your journey. Hang in there.


Top
#277909 - 03/02/09 08:06 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: royjay]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: royjay
how do you deal with straight men flirting with you? I'm not sure of my response!!


My first thought was...the down low guys? The sexually active straight men looking for a receptacle, where ever they find it. Scary. You as an individual are being targeted by others for their sexual pleasure, more than your heart, your being.

My second thought was ... are they playing with you?

Either way, it doesn't sound promising for personal growth, to buy into their reflecting who you are by their needs and wants.


Top
#277913 - 03/02/09 09:30 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: riveerboy]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
If straight men are flirting with gays
are they expressing ssa but not restraining themselves from having sex?
my csa has messed me up
I have chosen to be hetro

but my csa manifests ssa so yes I find myself flirting with gays
I hope I have not decended into my needs and wants
I hope I show more respect
Gays are men too. Men, like me with personalities, lives to live.

If I gave in and searched for sex that would for me be giving into my baser desires of lust / needs and desires = selfishness.
that would be wrong.

Some gays have flirted with me.
some propositioned me
one harassed me all day every day in the office
braging of his conquests at the top of his voice
I felt totally intimidated and hid my ssa out of fear

Nathan


Top
#277914 - 03/02/09 09:48 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
riveerboy Offline


Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Indiana
I see myself as a straight guy that happens to love a guy. I identify with gay issues and some social things, but I act, think, and feel straight. I am human and try to be just who I am. Right now I am trying to be who I was born to be. It is part of my process, my journey.

How do I see myself sexually?....1. I see myself as bisexual to straight. I have a kid history and a grown up history, as sexually gay. I have no idea on how to be a man with a woman, sexually. I have no feel for relating to a woman. I grew up where I would fall in love and get married. I grew up not learning to deal with the world. Not learning to deal or think sexually about the opposite sex. When I finally did, I called myself gay and shut that part of me down.

Sexually, in the past I was a man giving up my manhood (not masculinity) to another in love, in sex, in life. I had no concept of being a man and giving myself, as a man, to another. To give up myself completely or be abandoned.

I am 55 and just now getting to the parts I should have been going through at ten or eleven years old. That's me.


Top
#277937 - 03/02/09 04:41 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person? [Re: AndyS87]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Andy
I think you pretty well sum up the evil of csa

"I really regret that instead of me being able to discover sex like normal kids do I ended up having it dumped on me when I was too young to realize what any of it was about."

It grieves me that it seems I have to grieve lost innocence
by definition innocence cannot be recovered
through cleansing or purification and undoing csa induced thought patterns
I believe my sexuality can be restored
sure that's a faith thing, my Christian hope I hang onto
it's also why I am in recovery
otherwise I would be drowning in my despair
or gay after giving into csa induced ssa
no reflection on guys who are gay
just my position

Nathan


Top
#278434 - 03/06/09 08:55 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: riveerboy]
src Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 14
Could someone help a wife understand this ? How does a man who considers himself heterosexual bring himself to look at gay porn and engage in sexual acts with a man?

- What are your thoughts when looking at porn?
- What are your thoughts when engaging in sexual acts with a man?


I just don't understand this completely. I am afraid to ask my husband because either he wont know, too afraid to answer or perhaps I am afraid of the truth.


Top
#278443 - 03/06/09 10:18 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 01:21 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

Top
#278462 - 03/06/09 01:06 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: joelRT]
src Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 14
Thanks JoelRT. My husband and I actually had two consultations with Joe...and he is great. Yah know I understand the theories and how CSA can manifest itself this way. I guess I am searching for the thoughts of the mind of a SMSM. What do they think about when they engage in these behaviors? Are they thinking about the wives and kids at home?

I dont know how to ask him these questions without making his freeze up and isolate himself. But it is just on my mind...I want to know.... his fantasies about men? what was it about the porn he was attracted to? What excited him if anything?

Can someone help me understand the mind of a man who has relations with another man? Also, how do I begin this conversation with him?

I know that I may not need to know everything about the encounters...because it may even hurt me more....I am trying to figure out how to draw this line between knowing too much. But, I still have unanswered questions for him. So, I guess I am trying to understand his thoughts threw the lens of a few other CSA's.

Thanks to anyone who can respond to my questions.
Thanks again JoelRT.

"A wife just trying to understand her husbands behavior and thought process".


Top
#278468 - 03/06/09 02:40 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
tony2c Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 37
Loc: ny
Dear Src
As a man who is married for 30yrs and who because of childhood CSA - was very confused about my sexuality through most of my early life. maybe I can help
Intimacy with my father was sexual between the ages of 5 - 8yrs.
He also abused other boys in the neighborhood and they acted out sexually with me, especially 2 brothers who were neighbors and about 4years older than me. So sex was an expression of intimate "love" relationship with dear old dad--- and play time with buddies.
As i got older and realized it was all wrong, I was already programmed to think sex=intimacey and play. my teen years were the most painful of my life.
I was different. There is no other way to say it. I had great friends, who I grew up with, great guys but they were "normal" and not feeling what I was feeling. I surpressed and surpressed and surpressed. But I needed outlets - one of them was porn. I could have the "play" time at my discretion without being discovered. it was my way of controlling.
I came to realize I wasn't controlling it -- it was controlling me. I acted out with men in my late teens, but after felt very uncomfortable with the out of control eroticism involved. It was nothing like the friendships I had( I to this day thank God for them), that were based on common interests and trust, they were relationships of infatuation and exploitation.

After years of therapy and delaing with the Issues, I began to gain some control.
I had to learn not to panic about fantasies involving men, it was "normal" for me to experience that because of csa. When you don't panic about those things and realize they are learned behaviors it helps control it. Not eliminate it totally, I find I act out when there is something missing in my life, lack of nights out with the guys, not having enough male friends etc.
I went on too long I hope that this helps- If it does it gives all those year of suffering some value. God bless you and grant you his peace.

_________________________
we are so accustomed to adopting masks before others, that we wind up being unable to recognize ourselves

Top
#278479 - 03/06/09 05:09 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
.



Edited by joelRT (03/15/09 01:21 AM)
Edit Reason: leaving
_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

Top
#278481 - 03/06/09 05:55 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: tony2c]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: tony2c
When you don't panic about those things and realize they are learned behaviors it helps control it. Not eliminate it totally,


i can attest to this truth and it has been at the foundation of my emancipation from obsessive compulsive behaviors that previously dogged me my entire life.

until i 'stopped panicking', stopped trying to play lady macbeth [out out damned spot!] and began to accept things as being the case, i was condemned to being entrapped by these circular behaviors.

the wisdom of finding the 'middle ground' is ageless, and has appeared as guiding wisdom in all spiritual tradition.

and once the middle ground is embraced, which is a place of no judgment and complete acceptance, then and only then can the deprogramming begin. as shame is recognized to be the glue binding all of these mental blocks in place, little by little their iron clad grasp loosens; as the dissonace is realized, faced, and reckoned with, it is ultimately dissolved.

once that happens then new programming can take place, not infiltrated with fear, self-loathing and shame.

not being in a relationship at the time, i'm hard pressed to characterize my sexual behaviors as being 'acting out' behaviors, because i am not really doing anything deceptive. i've made no promises to anyone to be exclusive in my behaviors. i am not ruling out the possibility however. if it happens for me, well ok!

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#278560 - 03/07/09 02:04 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
Originally Posted By: src
I just don't understand this completely. I am afraid to ask my husband because either he wont know, too afraid to answer or perhaps I am afraid of the truth.


Well, I don't understand it completely, and this IS my life. Simply I am afraid.


Top
#278561 - 03/07/09 02:19 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: brother2none]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
Brother2none,

Before talking to you wife why not sit down and organize some boundaries or rules. Let her know that you need to talk to her about this issue, but due to the fact that you are still coming to terms and understanding of the issue yourself that she can not ask any question regarding this particular issue until you become comfortable with it her self and able to give her honest and knowledgeable information yourself. And if she does ask a question that you can't answer be honest with her and tell her you don't know and that your researching it and will answer her question when you know what the answer is yourself.

SRC the same would apply to you as the wife of a survivor. He may not know that answer right now. I doubt most of us do as we first discover the truth about ourselves and CSA. You can be patient loving and understanding as he and the rest of us come to terms with our pain and acting out.


Top
#279103 - 03/11/09 07:40 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: christianfather]
src Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 14
Thank you all for responding. I know my desire to understand his thoughts and reasoning sometimes overwhelm me. I just get in a mood to know what he was thinking during his time looking at gay porn or talking to men on the phone or engaging in sexual acts with them.

I tried to engage in this discussion on Friday and it didnt go too far. He did express the need to feel more comfortable about talking about it especially since he did not understand his own actions. He did respond to some of my questions, others he did state he just didnt know.

I didnt get upset, but felt like I had to just get it off my chest. I understand that he may need time to organize his history and process everything and make those connections. I just sometimes wonder about what am I supposed to do in the meantime. I am in a S-Anon group and go to my own therapist and I am working on my own issues, but sometimes I just get frustrated with no answers,no understanding on his part. I think how long will it take for him to understand his actions? 2 years....am I supposed to wait until then?

I will feel so much better when he is able to sit me down and say wife...this is my story...this is why I cheated on you....this is what happened to me when I was 10....and my abuse lead to...... The times I acted out I was thinking ...... and when I engaged in sexual activity I .....

I just want him to be able to tell me his story. I understand all the theories about CSA effects, but I am not able to align it with his story..because I don't know too much of what happened, how, why, etc.

Brother2none you said you were afraid....what are you afraid of?
My husband just gets paralyzed sometimes when I ask questions about his acts with other men....he isnt able to answer most of my questions. Is it really that you all don't understand your actions or more afraid to tell your wives your thoughts during your acting out...maybe we will leave or get upset ?

He says he feels shame when he thinks about his activities with other men. Some of my questions were:

1. Are you attracted to males? if yes, what attracts you?

He answered no. But I wonder why not..especially if you can do what you did and look at gay porn. How is this possible?

2. When you look at gay porn...what are you looking at specifically? Do you get aroused ? what excites you about these acts?

I get no answer here.

3. What did you talk about with these men?

He says not sex..just general conversation....like with your other friends. So I wonder why not just talk with your friends or me?

I won't list all my questions, but as a wife these are some of my thoughts.

But, thank you all for responding again. Any more thoughts, recommendations, etc.?

SRC


Top
#279115 - 03/11/09 08:49 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
SRC

Quick response in the Friends and Family Forum


Top
#279116 - 03/11/09 08:57 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
SRC, I am going to answer your questions, to the best I can, with complete candor.

I am afraid that the conversation will go to places that I don't want to admit to. I thought of sex with other men over all the years Ive known my wife. I think she will see it in my eyes. I would expect her to leave me. I feel it would be deserved.

I hesitate to call it "acting out". For me, that doesn't feel like it fits for me, but I am seeking to understand it more. I know damn well it is wrong. I feel guilty about this.

I don't expect to ever have sex with another, and I have been tempted plenty 'o times, on a weekly basis.

Your other questions...
I am attracted to other males that are my "type". What attracts me is their physical presence, body, physique, etc... without being too graphic.

When I masturbate, which is couple times a week, I almost always fantasize about male sex. When my wife and I have sex, also couple times a week, I have learned to stay in the moment and enjoy, and what a huge pleasure that is for me, our sex life is best its ever been.

When I look at gay porn, I am transported to another state of mind that enables me to totally escape out of my head, gone are my worries for that amount of time. I look for men in the act. Plain and simple. What excites me is that I desire to do it.

I don't really engage in any meaningful personal conversation, just enough to get off.

I am answering you SRC in the hope that it is helpful to you and that someone reading can identify something in me or about me that I am not seeing. Replies appreciated, either here or PM. Thanks.



Top
#279122 - 03/11/09 09:52 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: brother2none]
src Offline


Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 14
Hi Brother2none-

Thanks for your response and honesty. I know every case is different, but it lets me know somebody understands me. Was your wife aware that you identified as bisexual? I asked my husband that over and over again.....and he thinks he is not bisexual....but I sometimes think " Is is hard for him to admit this?" ...is he in denial??? trying to have the ideal family.

I've asked him this many times and told him that the best thing he could do for me ..is give me a choice this time? Let me decide if I want to be with you under these condition (bi, straight, CSA, addict...whatever...but I need honesty from the heart. No more lies or deception. I told him that he deserves to be who he is and to be happy and if being with just me and a female aint it....then he needs to be honest. Brother2none I just want the truth of what he feels in his heart...not his illusion of what life should be like (married w/kids, big house and nice car, good job).

He has expressed alot of guilt and shame with his actions. I asked him was he attracted to guys....he said no. He did say that now that he thinks about it...when he looked at porn...he looked at men with light complexions andnot dark ones (his abuser had fair skin), also most the scenes took place in the living room. Now, I am not sure what that all means...but that was the little bit he gave me. I was also intersted in knowing what is the positions, penis size, etc., physical appearence ? I read a few posts here where some men expressed facination with certain aspects of the porn.

He also expressed issues with masterbation ...but did not tell me what he thought about and whether he masterbated to gay porn.
But, he admitted that it was a problem.

He described a similar feeling when looking at porn...a place away from stress, relief, another state of mind, escape, release.
But when he was finished..he felt guilt, shame and said that was the last time. Always that was the last time...but never let it go until I found out in Nov. I dont know if it excites him to do it. I am not sure if I would get an answer.

He said his conversation were like any other conversations.....no about sex, but i guess basic chat. He said that he isnt out looking for sex or hook-ups. But, expressed that he knew something was wrong with the scenario....he shouldnt be talking to these guys...he is amarried man.

I am not sure if I am the best person to answer your last question. But, as a wife ....I can give you my perspective and maybe something maybe useful to you. You and your wife have a very long marriage. My husband and I are only in year 2....May will make 3 years. I feel like such a failure sometimes...my marriage started with secrets and lies. I wasnt given any options. ...he made decisions for me. I don' t appreciate it...because I shared all my secrets and issues with him.

Thank you so much for sharing. How does your wife deal with it?
How long has she known about it?

SRC


Top
#279154 - 03/12/09 07:06 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: src]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
SRC

Has you husband NOT actually had sex? Just porn and chat?

Brother2tone,

While I know some of the guys here have said don't tell your wife everything, take time to talk with her, etc....

If you're still having anonymous sex, then you're still putting your wife's health at risk. And that's not really an issue that we should allow ourselves the luxury of dealing with in our OWN time. You're not dealing ONLY with your own time, you're dealing with hers as well. And she deserves to take necessary precautions in relation to her own physical well-being.

You're depriving her of her right to give consent about the disposal of her own body. Kind of just like what happened to you when you were a child, no consent on your part.

Your wife has not consented to have sex with you.

I admire your commitment to work on your issues. I really do. It takes guts.

But it's also as simple as that. All that great sex you and your wife are having is being had without her consent.

I know there's a risk in talking about harsh realities that you'll run and hide, and grab hold of those rationalizations you've employed, and then nothing will change.

I hope that doesn't happen.

And while I respect some of the guy's response to you in the sense that it comes from a place of protecting you, which is laudable, your wife also deserves protection.

Rob too has cheated for years, and continued lying to me about some stuff. Why? Sure, there's a long story there, but there's also a sense in which it's as simple as this: For the sake of his orgasm. That's it. He's held people captive just so he can have an orgasm.

What a trade-off.... "Your life for my orgasm".

In most other respects, he's a pretty good guy.

Katie


Top
#279155 - 03/12/09 08:09 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
P.S.

It just seems to me that healing is both about recognizing the harsh realities of our own actions, and thus to really feel a sense of mourning, not only for how we've treated others, but the damage that was done to our development back when we were children -- as well as the damage we've continued to perpetrate against our selves as adults.

Just doubt this can be done without screwing up the courage to risk losing those who we've damaged, without being honest, and ending what really is a hostage situation.

Being stuck in feelings of "wanting" to talk with your wife, but being too afraid to because she might reject you, is just that -- being stuck.

While it's your decision to remain stuck, it's really not your decision to keep sticking her. Whether she's stuck or not is HER decision, not yours to make.

Morally speaking of course.

AA says: "We're as sick as our secrets". Boy, is that true.

It's up to you if you want to remain as sick as your secrets or not.

But your wife shouldn't be made as sick as your secrets -- unless she chooses to.

Take care Brother2Tone -- I really mean no harm in all of this. I'm not without empathy of your struggles. But all deserve empathy, it's not something we selectively give out to whoever it's most convenient.

And I wouldn't be so sure you're bisexual, at least not in the sense of attachment to others irrespective of the sexed body so that it's the person who counts more than their sex.

Sounds to me it's more a paraphilia than a sexual orientation, otherwise both the man's and your wife's subjectivity would be playing a larger role in the way you are currently conducting your life. When people are reduced to objects we manipulate to play a role in our private theater, then orientation in a full sense is in question -- in the sense that orientation is about who we're drawn to as potential mates with whom we bond for relatively long periods of time.

Katie


Top
#279194 - 03/12/09 03:24 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: Kathryn]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
SRC: I do not know the answers to your questions.

Kathryn: I am trying to take it all in, what you wrote. It is difficult to keep focused and make meaning. I asked for feedback and I need the feedback, I need to be challenged here.

I am moved that you cared enough of me to reply to me, and my post.




Top
#279219 - 03/12/09 06:50 PM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: brother2none]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303
I'm glad.

My intent is to honor you enough to address those aspects that are good and kind, and who loves your wife.

And who takes the time and care to participate on a site like this.

It's hard, but you CAN do it -- you have it in you.

Take care,
Katie


Top
#279303 - 03/13/09 08:09 AM Re: how do you see yourself as a sexual person *** [Re: Kathryn]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Brother and Katie,

Is not being use as an object for sexual pleasure of another person the #1 lesson that we learn as sexual abuse victims.
I bet 99.9 percent of the men here have issues with objectation
of others for their sexual pleasure.
Alot of times in order for me to orgasm during sex I have to conciously in my mind view my wife as an sexual object and not as a person.
My isssues with porn stem from this very same issue. In alot of porn women are view as nothing more than sexual objects for the pleasure of men.
It is all about one persons pleasure with no real regards for the feelings or needs of the other person. that sexs and emotions do not mix.
It is a twisted view of sexually but one alot of us survivors must come to grasp in order to heal from our abuse.
I know that I am struggling with it in my life.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.