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#264583 - 12/01/08 03:14 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Stretch73]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
Oh for God's sake! Are you suggesting pedophilia is a born trait?

It is the opinion of many. I am just taking this opinion to its logical remedy.

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My Story

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#264587 - 12/01/08 03:17 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Barkabus]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Okay.

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#264610 - 12/01/08 06:56 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Stretch73]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
All i have to say about this, is to share what i learned via the Internet (therefore it may or not be true, but it rang true to me)
A convicted pedophile (or paedophile, depending on what side of the pond you're on), had been found (after re-offending) to be injecting himself with hormones, after voluntarily agreeing to either chemical or physical castration as a condition of his probation (sorry, can't remember which).
What struck me, was not only the perniciousness, but the psychologically deep-seated root of the behavior (independent of hormonal or sexual drive)...
This only reinforces, in my mind, that in a sense, it's little to do with sex, and far more to do with power and control.
Every one is unique, in the sense of of how they percieve the world, but i absolutely agree that "offenders/perpetrators/pedophiles/whatever you want to call them" have had a fairly basic wire crossed, that stretches farther back than puberty... perhaps it's simply a matter of how soon others are aware of the warp in perception, so to speak- maybe there's a "cut-off point", where the duration or severity of the perceptual distortion is beyond correction, and only the behavior can be managed...
Let's face it- as both a rational and empathic human being, and a survivor, can anyone expect my general response to the topic be anything else, but- "Learn as much as possible; yet keep children's safety the first priority, no matter what"?

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#264983 - 12/03/08 01:04 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: steveb121]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home

There is no one in this world who is beyond redemption, and healing, even the hardest of criminals, all that is required here is someone willing to give them hope and help them find their way back to the light, and view them as a human being! The worst thing to do to a criminal is to dehumanize him, no child is born so, and if only we can help them retrace and recover their lost innocence they can be healed and they do aplenty all over the world, but that requires a heart much larger than your sense of judgment and righteousness, as those who judge will find it hard to see criminals as victims themselves, of their desires.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#264990 - 12/03/08 03:49 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Morning Star]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
How'd it get to this? ...... This ain't going to be pretty!!!

Their "redemption" is the pinnacle of them doing what they do. They are not children, they hurt children. Those children grow up to be like us, like me.

How can I view them as human after what they chose to do? If I wasn't born already dehumanized then they certainly made every effort to make me not human. It's wrong for me to dehumanize them? How did I do something wrong? My perps designed what they would do down to the last calculation. Not a single one ever has come forward out of the 40+ who devoured me. How does a group of men lay aside time, travel expenses, create acts, terrorize, make their own "tools", torture, rape, kill, revive, and more, repeatedly over a number of years and be able to call all of that somekind of mistake?

I don't see any perp differently than I see my own. Why? Because nobody forces them to do what they do and they enjoy what they do. What they do is not derived from past innocense. Whether it is called a disease, a trait, an illness, hereditary, learned behavior, any other !!!EXCUSE!!! they are not victims. THEY made their own choices, THEY don't accidently do what they do. They are evil and nomatter how regretful they can ever become they do not have a power to undo their deeds. They don't even have the integrity to fess up to what they have done.

We need to give them hope? We need to try to help them?

Do they give us hope? Do they try to help us heal?

How is it that they are supposed to "heal" when they've made us bleed? What gives them priority over their victims? What would any of you do if you had mere thoughts that you would hurt a kid? Run and hope for the best? Or get every kind of help available and take every precaution down to mortality in order to keep a child safe if that danger couldn't be controlled.... it's a choice!

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#265009 - 12/03/08 08:02 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I wouldn't argue with the "choice" or the "evil-doing, usmc, but I will argue this, they shouldn't get priority over the victims, but we must keep them in some type of priority in the hopes of preventing such future crimes against children.

We can all argue this until the end of days, until we're all blue in the face and sick enough to puke coat hangers, but it's like we'll come to the same conclusions and opinions after everyone of these little spouts.

I simply believe it to be more of my responsibility, as a victim (and you'll never hear me call myself a victim again), to try to prevent future crimes. Tell me what to do. I'm all ears. As I've explained in another recent post, the "dropping them all on a desolate deserted island is not going to solve the problem." I feel it's like the war on drugs; to beat it we need to get to the users before they start using, practicing prevention and treatment. Oh but wait, "treatment is useless, is doesn't work, right?" Maybe. I don't completely buy in to that. I just think society and medicine hasn't found an accurate treatment for these individuals, but giving time, money, patience, and support, maybe someday we'll understand more and be equiped to deal with it.

I don't think we should be asking the question, "Why do abusers abuse," because no one really has a clear sight on the answer. I think the more important question would be, "What can we do, collectively, to prevent potential abusers from abusing?"

Rich



Edited by Stretch73 (12/03/08 08:05 AM)
_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#265013 - 12/03/08 09:16 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Are you sure that the abuser does not in the end victimize himself by his own behavior.
Is he not trapped in a world of lies, deceit, and self-deception as we were. Does he not live in constant fear of being found out for what happened or who he really is.
Would you seek help if you knew that you faced certain and constant rejection from society with no hope of reprieve. No hope of help or understanding for your sickness. No hope for ever having a normal life.
This is why I believe there is little hope for the majority of abuser ever getting the help they need.

I will never understand why Mr. Candell choose to prey on children like myself or why he got off on it.
Can I condon his behavior-Hell no.
Do I forgive him-yes.
Because forgiving him frees me from the grip that his abuse had over me.
Unforgiveness left me in the grip a self-imposed prison of isolation.
No different then his choice of acting out imposed on him.
Today the key to my freedom is in my hands not his.

Just something to chew on.

Mike

ps-I am not saying you have to forgive just that for me it is the key to freedom.




Edited by michael banks (12/03/08 09:42 AM)
_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#265014 - 12/03/08 09:20 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Stretch73]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.


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#265020 - 12/03/08 11:06 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: michael banks]
CorDav Offline


Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I heard a preacher one night on late night tv. I will try and restate it here. It is powerfull to me. A common expression for forgiveness is burying the hatchet. It was a custom between warring North American Native when the dispute was settled and the peace pipe was smoke they would bury the hatchet of war in the ground. In my own experience of forgiveness I had come to realize around this time that every unkind word, act, co-incident everything that have ever happened to me I remembered and I could bring into my conscious and re-feel it. anger hiding the fear, inadequacy and insecurity. I heard the term gunny sacking by this time which refers to storing injustices and carrying them for years and years. the wieght of the sack becomes tremendous but desipite this burden I carry it and because of the weight and great effort to continue to carry it, I have now invested enormous physical and emotional energy into retaining this gunny sack. Although the sack is full of shit. It is mine and familar. Cause of the investment in carrying it to let go of it would mean that all of my struggles in bringing it along with me for 36 years would have been in vain. Wasted. I am today willing to let of the sack of shit. cause it is shit. It is brown. It smells. It is warm. It is familar. to let go of it I do not know what the future will hold. If I keep the bag I know it. It is familar. It is safe. So there is a huge amount of anxiety with letting go of it because the future would be uncertain. From my experience of past self defeating behaviours I can look and see I am much better off a day, a week, a month, a year, adecade later. Back to the hatchet. As human when I forgive I tend to leave the handle of the hatchet just barely sticking out of the ground. so I will know where it is. I can retrieve it should I ever have the need to control or manipulate the human relationship I am struggling with at any particular moment. I retrieve the hatchet and use the hatchet of guilt to get these people to behave the way I want so I can feel safe and secure in this world. When everyone behaves the way I want I am pretty happy guy. This hatchet however has residual effects. The hatchet of guilt and shame is in my hand. It is mine. I need to learn to not pick it up. Cause it hurts me. I am tired of hurting me. I do not know how but the answer is in us. The solution is in all of us. We are the answer. We need to quit allowing society to shame us or feel guilty about what they have allowed to happen to us. We are the solution to there not being an effectual treatment for abusers. Some how?

_________________________
"you can be a character and still not have any" the fox Pulp Fiction
Rule 62: Quit taking yourself so serious.
Pinky "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?" Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky- try to take over the world."

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#265023 - 12/03/08 11:48 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: CorDav]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
“We have petitioned - we have remonstrated - we have supplicated - we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free - if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending - if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon, until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained - we must fight! - I repeat it, sir, we must fight!! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts, is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak - unable to cope with so formidable and adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Millions of people armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country of that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave… There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged. Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable - and let it come!! I repeat it, sir, let it come!!!

It is vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, peace, peace - but there is no peace. The war has actually begun. The next gale that sweeps from the North will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms. Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God, I know not what course others may take, but as for me -- Give me liberty or give me death!” -


I think we all could learn a little bit of justice from great men like Patrick Henry. Too bad he died over 200 years ago.

Rich


_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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