Newest Members
Aurigny, Luther, LuckyCharm, Jennifer Lyons, TantraPunk
12250 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
AdawgJR (28), Brian (50), hikerpark (52), Jeremy Welch (47), Logan81 (2014), Olson30 (60), Patrick7958 (56)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 45 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12250 Members
73 Forums
63103 Topics
441290 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 7 of 10 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 >
Topic Options
#265025 - 12/03/08 12:04 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: michael banks]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6805
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Are you sure that the abuser does not in the end victimize himself by his own behavior.

Is he not trapped in a world of lies, deceit, and self-deception as we were. Does he not live in constant fear of being found out for what happened or who he really is.
Would you seek help if you knew that you faced certain and constant rejection from society with no hope of reprieve. No hope of help or understanding for your sickness. No hope for ever having a normal life.

. . .there is little hope

. . . forgiving him frees me

Unforgiveness left me in the grip a self-imposed prison of isolation.
Mike


Well said, Mike

Allen

pufferfish whistle


Top
#265027 - 12/03/08 12:23 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Stretch73]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
I wouldn't argue with the "choice" or the "evil-doing...

I simply believe it to be more of my responsibility, as a victim (and you'll never hear me call myself a victim again), to try to prevent future crimes. Tell me what to do. I'm all ears....

I feel it's like the war on drugs; to beat it we need to get to the users before they start using, practicing prevention and treatment. Oh but wait, "treatment is useless, is doesn't work, right?" Maybe. I don't completely buy in to that. I just think society and medicine hasn't found an accurate treatment for these individuals, but giving time, money, patience, and support, maybe someday we'll understand more and be equiped to deal with it.

I don't think we should be asking the question, "Why do abusers abuse," because no one really has a clear sight on the answer. I think the more important question would be, "What can we do, collectively, to prevent potential abusers from abusing?"

Rich


I never said treatment doesn't work for addicts, what I have said is that with perps they are in the same boat of where they will never ever be completely free of their behavior. Drug users have a chance, treatment does work for a lot of them but they are always in recovery. Perps are not completely the same even though they have simularities. The thing I've tried to key you folks into when I've used addicts as an example is that they are never completely free of returning to their addiction. With drugs a person is destroying their own body. What I keep repeating is that I am not willing to jeopardize the welfare of a child for the sake of a perps journey to "healing"..... if they hurt a kid once then they have made their choice. They should be reprimanded for life by the very least of having them unmistakably marked in the site of the public in order to prevent them from hurting another kid. That's when you can put the responsibility back on everyone.

If addicts are never completely healed how can you say that perps can be completely healed? Nomatter how much education you give people they will do what they are going to do BY CHOICE.

Use all that as effort of prevention.... if they choose to hurt a child then they have chosen to become a perp. Then give a list of what they will face by being under that label. Give the alternate choice of if they are a danger that they will be required to seek help indefinately but the second they hurt a child they have chosen. Up until the point they exploit a child they are responsible human beings. You give them the resources, if they don't comply you give them the consequence. Simple as that. It takes a whole lot of effort to hurt a kid.

Addicts abuse drugs destroying themselves, Perps abuse children destroying the child.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#265031 - 12/03/08 12:41 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I respectfully disagree, usmc. smile

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

Top
#265033 - 12/03/08 12:42 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Are you sure that the abuser does not in the end victimize himself by his own behavior.
Is he not trapped in a world of lies, deceit, and self-deception as we were.

They have no simularities to me! They put themselves in that place by their own choices! They are no victim.... some of them already try to claim that in that what they do is not accepted in society. The world of lies, etc..... they created that world and they kidnapped us into it. I don't claim it as a place of my own, I am forced to fight my way out of it because I do not belong there.
Originally Posted By: michael banks

Does he not live in constant fear of being found out for what happened or who he really is.
Their responsibility should trump their selfish fears. They did it, not society. The child or children that they have harmed should be more important than the secrets they want to hold on to. They are self-preservationist that base their lives on cowardice.
Originally Posted By: michael banks

Would you seek help if you knew that you faced certain and constant rejection from society with no hope of reprieve. No hope of help or understanding for your sickness. No hope for ever having a normal life.
Yes!!! A kids life and wellbeing is more important than my own. I would not see a child for the rest of my days and if I couldn't hold to that standard I'd take death before ever harming a child.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#265035 - 12/03/08 12:47 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
USMC,

I disagree with your statement that drug addicts hurt only themselves. As a recovered drug addict that was just one of many of the excuses that I used not to face the truth about myself and my behaviors.
The drugs addicts behavior effects everyone in his life.
To his wife and kids who suffer neglect,abandonment,
emotional,and physical abuse. Not to mention the financial loss that his family has to endure because the drug becomes more important then anything else.
To freinds and family who they steal money and property from to get that next fix.
Nobody who cares about an addict gets away free from damage.
Addicts can and do destroy those around them.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#265036 - 12/03/08 12:56 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: CorDav]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: CorDav
A common expression for forgiveness is burying the hatchet....

This hatchet however has residual effects. The hatchet of guilt and shame is in my hand. It is mine. I need to learn to not pick it up. Cause it hurts me. I am tired of hurting me. I do not know how but the answer is in us. The solution is in all of us. We are the answer. We need to quit allowing society to shame us or feel guilty about what they have allowed to happen to us. We are the solution to there not being an effectual treatment for abusers. Some how?


I haven't tried to touch the forgiveness aspect, not because I am not capable but because of the circumstance of what's done to me, the numbers, and a great many other things. It is not my fault that I don't know how to forgive them, so there is nothing in my hand that I can use to alter what torment they've put upon my head. I have no control, no choice of what they do.... if I did I could make the statement that they have been conquered and that I am free of their torture. If they could stop being cowards and stop hiding behind their perfect anonymity. If only just one of them would come forward it would change my approach toward all of them. That would be hope and that would be the foundation of forgiveness.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#265038 - 12/03/08 01:06 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: michael banks
USMC,

I disagree with your statement that drug addicts hurt only themselves. As a recovered drug addict that was just one many of the excuses that I used not to face the truth about myself and my behaviors.
The drugs addicts behavior effects everyone in his life.
To his wife and kids who suffer neglect,abandonment,
emotional,and physical abuse. Not to mention the financial loss that his family has to endure because the drug becomes more important then anything else.
To freinds and family who they steal money and property from to get that next fix.
Nobody who cares about an addict gets away free from damage.
Addicts can and do destroy those around them.

Mike


In the end the addict is destroying their own body, mind, and life. It's a choice to start using by whatever means, even the residual effects are still the choice of the user. The things that people do to enable an addict has it's consequences. If they love someone they will try to walk along side them to help them through that period of life but they have to expect that they will get hurt. The addict needs to own all of their behavior. I don't want to talk about addicts so much... I was just trying to use an addict just as a reference point.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#265040 - 12/03/08 01:27 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
USMC,

My point is that both the addict and the perps actions hurt children that become involved with them.
Why is there help and forgiveness for one and not the other.
Before the 1930's an alcolohic was consider a helpless and hopeless case in ever changing his way. That once a drunk always a drunk.
What changed? but that a group of these loss individuals came together and learned to help each other.
So today there is alot more support and understanding of their problem.
Could there not be parrallels in dealing with this other group of loss individuals.

Just a thought.

I don't believe that anyone is a loss cause until he gives up on himself.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#265046 - 12/03/08 01:51 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: michael banks]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
The number one difference is that perps seek out children to hurt, and they hurt them in a specific way. Addicts can hurt anyone who is in there vicinity.

I have no understanding for an alcoholic or an addict, remove them from the possibility of using and that solves the problem indefinately.

My moms husband is an alcoholic and my brother is an addict. Since being on my own I have not allowed them to be destructive to my life.

I'm too gung ho about all this stuff I guess. My whole thing is to do something effectively. Trying to develop treatment that is sensitive and pushing around who's supposed to be responsible does nothing especially when nobody wants to hurt their feelings. They do the deed, it's no accident.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

Top
#265050 - 12/03/08 02:20 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: usmc97]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I respectfully disagree, usmc.

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

Top
Page 7 of 10 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.