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#265225 - 12/04/08 02:11 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: AndyJB2005]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I feel being a victim doesn't give one experience to, and make one an expert on, abusers. Certainly it makes one a first-hand expert on victimization and the feelings behind that, however. smile

Isn't that the truth! What I have found especially interesting is the fact that the people who have been able to help me the most - my Ts at various times - have never been survivors. Nor, for that matter, have any of them been men!

Do survivors have some special insight into the psychology of abusers, why they do it, whether they can change, etc., just because we are survivors? My own case suggests that the answer is a decisive NO.

When I began working with Ken Singer as editor for his book, I was aghast at some of the new things I was reading. I had never thought of any of this in such a way. I had spent literally decades demonizing those who had hurt me without realizing that by doing so I was granting them enormous power over what I was capable of thinking and doing. I mean, the abuser of my childhood was dead and I knew it, yet I still feared him. What was that all about?

What I came to realize was that my abuse experiences as a boy and then later had left me with a lot of false ideas about abusers that I continued to carry around in my head. Recognizing those ideas, and then dealing with them, did as much to help me as all the therapy I had had over the previous 8 years.

The bottom line for me was realizing that so long as I insisted on viewing the abuser as a kind of totally "other" boogyman, Little Larry was going to fear him and the world that could produce and hide such a monster.

This isn't to argue for compassion, forgiveness, or whatever; that's not what this thread is about. But my experience has been that a healthy measure of self-examination makes all the difference in the world. That kind of introspection is what decisively breaks the control that abuse can hold over us even decades after the abuse itself has ended and the abuser himself is long gone.

Much love,
Larry


_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#265226 - 12/04/08 02:15 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: AndyJB2005]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.


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#265228 - 12/04/08 02:22 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: ineffable]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
It's not whether or not they can change eventually into "better people", it's that in the process they can create more victims and since they are "changing" it somehow becomes even more excusable. There is no way anyone can prove that they don't make the choice to do what they do, yet there is complete and total evidence that they make that choice. They need to own it. Nobody forces them in any of the steps they take to perpetrate. I don't believe it's right to have children in danger for the mere possibility that one of them might somehow be different. With them not being completely and totally safe, they are not safe.

Even if they were "healed" from their past how does that make them magically safe to be around a child? Nobody has total control of their thoughts but some how perps have access to that ability? They may be able to change some things about themselves but they will never be able to change the things that they have done to their victims. That is why I will always see them as a perp.

For them to be able to move on with a trail of destruction behind them does not really say they move on... it says that folks like us were never anything more than learning tools, mistakes, and instruments used for their development. I don't know how many get hurt like I do day in and day out. How much more unimportant does my life need to be?

For someone to have credentials does not make them an expert and for me to not have a degree does not mean that I do not have credentials. In my "recovery" I have had to study what their make up is, the history, developement, etc, all makes and models of them. I have had personal time with them, I have asked questions face to face. I have been in horrible experimental studies with them. There's more to me than a victim. I do not need to be a perp to know a perp. I'm a Victim and I don't understand most of you and it seems that most of you don't get me either.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#265229 - 12/04/08 02:26 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: roadrunner]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Something else that I try to remember is that some of us are going to be approaching our healing/recovery from a position of advocacy & possibly even from a militant perspective.

There was a moderator here years ago who was very militant?
That is going to affect the dialogue in my opinion.
Rallying the troops.

So I am learning to take these threads with a grain of salt or as-sault.
Because in the slightly less than a year I have been here, they surface frequently.

C



Edited by ineffable (12/04/08 02:26 PM)
Edit Reason: line breaks
_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#265230 - 12/04/08 03:06 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: ineffable]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I defy everything you guys seem to think a "survivor" is supposed to be. My life don't match anything, my experience don't match anything. My knowledge is doubted, my life is doubted. What happened to me isn't believed, what happens to me isn't believed. I don't know anything with all the daily hell I go through because I don't have a fuckin' piece of paper to say so and now I'm militant?

What am I supposed to do?

I'm nothing, what they did and do to me is okay, what they do to everyone is okay.... it's not their fault either, me the mistake, them the victim, me the destroyed but hope for them, and somehow I have a responsibility to accept "them" as just having some weakness and show tolarance in hopes that "they" can be safe for one child to ever be alone with "them"? Something that has never been proven, something that morally should never even be attempted to prove!

them, they, perp, pedo, monster, abuser, tormentor, master, sir, torturer, executioner, mr, keeper, etc.... some how my brother?

Bullshit I won't accept that!

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#265238 - 12/04/08 04:19 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: roadrunner]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
a healthy measure of self-examination makes all the difference in the world. That kind of introspection is what decisively breaks the control that abuse can hold over us even decades after the abuse itself has ended and the absuer himself is long gone.

well i can certainly vouch for that. however after 40 years of introspection, i think that i have far surpassed the 'healthy measure' point, and dealing with the issues being violated has raised, seems to have turned me into a fixated compulsive recoverer. not my idea of the good life. i wish i could feel better knowing that all this 'work' has somehow changed my relationship to my abusers and myself. at some point i just want a lobotomy to forget it ever happened.

but other than that......i can't complain i guess, have a lot of other good stuff helping me keep my sanity. now back to being in a good mood..... confused

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#265240 - 12/04/08 04:23 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: steveb121]
recovery Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 39
Today, I am just thinking. of alot of things. Should I consider myself a survivor. My abuses were all short. maybe, a few minutes at most. And I should of been mature enough to realize. what is was. I knew all about abuse. But, I never thought it could happen to me. My mistake is wanting friends too easy. and giving people the benefit of the doubt.

I was 20 years old. Homeless in a bookstore. And some guy came and talked to me. And took interest. And he claimed to me a massage therapist. And convinced me. I needed a massage.

What is convinced me in doing is letting my boundaries. down so he could abuse me. And giving me something which I don't need.

Then, when i realized it. I stoped it from getting worse. but, saying no. But, I didn't want to admit at the time.

And I thought about telling someone. but, then thought. Well, I'm homeless No one cares about me. And he will just say, that
I wanted it. And agreed no crime commited.

But, he did manipulate me. When I wasn't feeling well, or thinking.

He did ask me my age. After the abuse was down.

Should I have told the people in the bookstore. Would it of made it worse. I was just hanging out at the bookstore to pass the time away. And I was 20 years old over aged.

But, in my book is was ABUSE. No matter the age. Or, if I should of know better. He came with the motive to manipulate me. And he probably wanted more than he got.

It just makes me sick. That it had to happen. It could have been prevented. But, it was not my fault.

I think, he was someone that is emotionally inmature. And can't have a relationship with Adults. So, he goes after kids and people that act or look like kids.

And I think he was cruising the mens bathroom. looking at kids before he approached me.

I should of known. Just when it seems no one cares about you. And someone pretended to treat you well, and care about you. Common Sense go out the do. For awhile, untill you have a chance to think about it. And by that time. It too late.

There BASTARDS. They need to leave people alone.

What should I have done after the abuse. the easiest was let it pass and move on. But, should I have told. What would of happened?

I don't think. I would of done anything differently. Except prevent it.

I WAS SO STUPID FOR LEAVING HOME AND LIVING ON THE STREETS.

ITS HARD TO FACE UP TOO.


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#265307 - 12/04/08 11:18 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: recovery]
frost Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
_________________________
Boom!

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#265311 - 12/04/08 11:51 PM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I just wanted to add:

I feel being a victim doesn't give one experience to, and make one an expert on, abusers. Certainly it makes one a first-hand expert on victimization and the feelings behind that, however. smile



Andy,

Very nicely put. I like this statement very much. Can I use it sometime? I'll give you a royalty. wink

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#265319 - 12/05/08 12:31 AM Re: Why do abusers abuse? [Re: Stretch73]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
That sure is not a true statement for everyone, if it's supposed to be then nobody has even a clue about me.

No wonder it gets lonely here.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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