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#263169 - 11/22/08 02:53 PM Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law?
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
About six months back, a registered sex offender was moving into the next town south of mine. Prior to the man and his family moving into their home, there was a daily ritual of protests, involving residents from that town, my town, and other towns in the surrounding area to elimate the possibilty of this man and his family moving there. The house was even grafittied, windows were broken, the driveway spray painted "Peto" across it. (Yes, Peto, not pedo)

Several town meetings were scheduled and both members of the police department and administrative and elected officials were present to hear complaints, worries, and much anger. I sat through the entire thing and I didn't even say a God damn word. Eventually, I could not stay silent. My Mayor asked me what I thought. I told him, "Nobody here wants to hear what I have to say. They won't like it very much." After being assured that I could say what was on my mind, and knowing well and true what he said is completely false, I let go with it anyway. This is close to what I said:

"The man did something very wrong. I agree with that. However, he spent time in prison, and according to the record, he has sought help and is currently in therapy for his desires. I cannot support any witch hunt. I believe in the law and I believe the law is working right now."

With the above statement, a finger was pointed at me by a man I've known my entire life and his words were, "Well you must be one of them if you talk like that." I replied, "No, I'm not. I just believe that if we want the law to work for you and I, then we must give it a chance to work for everyone. If we don't, then it works for no one." (I've actually babysat his grandchildren, and I have been and still remain abundantly offended by his comments. But usually, everyone leaves angry town hall meetings with some sort of regret and feeling offended.)

Look, the deal is, I cannot support anything like that. I do not agree with what this man did. He did at least force himself upon and molest a child, as his offense according to the record was "aggravated sexual assault upon a minor under the age of 12." The offense disgusts me, and I have no idea how someone can be attracted to a child. The thought is unfathomable to me. But I must let the law work!

I feel more sorry for his wife and children. Certainly his wife knows and understands, but his children, as I know are very small, may not have any idea as to what has transpired and why the people in their own new neighborhood are threatening them, and defacing their home and property. I feel really, really bad for them, and I don't understand why anyone would do such a thing, knwoing this man has children and they might be traumatized by this. That is an act of abuse in itself!

Now as I lay here, as I have been for over two weeks, recuperating from my back surgery and just thinking about things, I cannot get this off my mind. Maybe some of you will think I should've picked up one of those protest signs and stand in front of this man's house, or at least written a letter to my congressman. I have a child of my own, surely I should be angry, you might think? I am angry. That's not the point. Do you know what is?

I believe in God. I believe He has a plan for all of us; the guilty also.

Last night, the man who called me out and disagreed with me at the meeting stopped by my house, because his wife had died on Wednesday from Cancer. He handed me a note and left. I opened it and it reads the following; "There's not need for you to attend the funeral, as you are obviously incapacitated due to your surgery, and besides, I'd rather not have a "peto" supporter there." Funny, how easy it is to discover what people are all about in just a few simple words. smile

I want to hear what you think. Did I do the right thing? Am I a good man? Or should I have joined the crowd?

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#263177 - 11/22/08 03:18 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
joelRT Offline
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Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...."

I think the bigger picture here is this man's familly, all of whom are innocent and are being victimized by a witch hunt.

I wonder what deep dark sexual secrets and perversions some of our Good cirizens keep under wraps and if, in part at least, it is due to a subconcious fear of being exposed that make some of them so zealous in their condemnation of others.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#263185 - 11/22/08 03:35 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: joelRT]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Rich:
I wonder if they would have responded to you that way if they knew your victimization history. Maybe some would assume that being victimized, you were either a closet abuser or might become one.

Mob psychology is not pretty. You are correct in your conclusions and I applaud your courage to stand up for what you believe.


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#263215 - 11/22/08 05:40 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
There are no easy answers in this case. But, yes, I totally agree with your decision Rich %100. The law, is the law, and it either deserves respect or does not. And do all laws deserve respect? No, obviously not, so by which criteria do we judge as to whether or not a law is just? I wish I could claim that I knew how define such a criteria without making everyone's eyes glaze over,.........but I'll do a little exploring on this issue.

What's REALLY muddling the moral argument here is this guy's wife and kids that are still with him. Does she believe he's innocent? Does she feel that the charges leveled against him were overzealous or unjustified? If not, then WHY did she choose to stay with him? Some crimes against people can't be automatically forgiven just because you "love" someone, which apparently, the mother of this man convicted of this crime has done. Her choosing to stay with a man who was convicted of such a crime must be either desperate for the income that this man can bring in or that she feels that what he did wasn't really that bad and that he isn't a threat to their children, or SOMETHING. Anyway, my point is, it's not just about him when innocent people are clinging to him to provide a household for them.

Something about this story isn't quite right to me. Why is this man's wife and mother of his children still with him after being convicted of such a crime? Certainly, by now, she must be aware of all the social ramifications and stigma that go along with living with someone such as this, for her, and their children.


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#263267 - 11/22/08 08:49 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Hauser]
Stretch73 Offline
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Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Hauser,

You'll get no argument from me on why a woman would keep herself and her children in that position. (I did intend to mention it in my post, but I forgot as I had so many things going through my mind at the time. Only after I re-read it, did I realize I didn't mention that.)

When I was a kid, there was a man in my neighborhood who was also accused of such a crime and he was sent to prison. What he did and for how long is unknown to me, but I was always aware that he was a child molestor. Later on in life, in my mid-20s, I actually coached his son in Little League Baseball, who at the time was only 10 or 11.

I don't know why spouses bring themselves and their children back into an environment such as that one, and I cannot even figure out why the law always someone to re-enter their old lives where small children are present. Some things, I suppose, to be explained to me like I, myself, am a small child.

Either way, I cannot judge this man but only his crime. It's not my right to throw down the gavel again, and again, and again, until I see it fit that he live amongst the rest of us. A judge already did that.

Let me ask you this, and I am taking no sides here, so please don't take that as my intention... If a man murders another man, and is sentenced to prison for 30 years, released back into society with the true feeling of remorse for what he had done, does he deserve to live among people? He murdered a person. Why should he be placed back into the same environment, close to people that he could kill, because his history claims he has the done it before?

I can be judgmental on a lot of issues, but I believe today, as I always have, people deserve second chances!

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#263270 - 11/22/08 08:54 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
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As I sit here pondering this post my thoughts run toward looking at it metaphorically about myself. Do I want to support the fight against evil or the work of my own healing and peace?

I know the black and white thing is old, but....

The fight against evil needs a black and white world in which I must be all white so that I can feel completely un-hypocritical in my condemnation of those I call evil and those I call evil must be completely black so that I can fight the black with full ferocity without worrying about what good there might be being destroyed along with the evil.

But since the world appears to have so much bad all over the good and so much good all tangled up with the bad, and all of it all tangled up into one big yin yang, I think taking up the sword of righteousness that I don't have and fighting beings of pure evil that don't exist might not be the better idea.

You chose tolerance over hatred. Does that mean you support child molesters? No. It just means you aren't color blind.
Just realize that not being color blind often gets you painted black by those who can't handle colors.

That's my Taoist two cents.



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#263272 - 11/22/08 08:57 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: blueshift]
Stretch73 Offline
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Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Yeah, but you know what Blueshift, I've never really given a shit what people think about me, because at the end of the day, what people say and think really doesn't mean a hell of a whole lot to myself or my family.

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#263275 - 11/22/08 09:13 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: blueshift]
blueshift Offline
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BTW, just a probably needed clarification here; by you supporting tolerance over hatred I was not saying that you support tolerance of child abuse but that, to the extent that you are supporting this person having a chance to live and even possibly do some good in the world rather than have him just shut up in a concrete hole his whole life or lynched or stoned to death, as the angry mob might prefer, to that extent you supported tolerance.

There is a place for intolerance and there is a place for anger too, and even hatred..but these are all processes of nature and
all processes of nature are transitory occurrences. When we try to make them permanent fixtures, that's when we are fighting nature and ourselves.

Anger is natural but so is forgiveness I believe. Whether that forgiveness is deserved or not makes no difference. Forgiveness heals while hanging on to hatred as a virtue to be cultivated just makes mean angry people.



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#263277 - 11/22/08 09:17 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
blueshift Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stretch73
Yeah, but you know what Blueshift, I've never really given a shit what people think about me, because at the end of the day, what people say and think really doesn't mean a hell of a whole lot to myself or my family.

Rich


Funny how even without disagreeing with me you still gotta make it sound like you do. lol That's OK. I still loves ya.



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#263556 - 11/24/08 01:05 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
I cannot even figure out why the law always someone to re-enter their old lives where small children are present. Some things, I suppose, to be explained to me like I, myself, am a small child.


Because I hope in America we bring in people for crimes they actually commit -- not ones we think they will make in the future and/or ones we profile them to make.

As for why the wife stays: I don't know how long they've been together and I don't know the details of the case, but there could be a lot of reasons why she's chosen to stay. If they've been married for decades, I can't imagine it's an easy decision to just dump him, even if he's made a huge error. For the kid's sake maybe she should, but then again maybe his victim was 17 and the kid is 3 -- not that a teen is less of a victim, but maybe younger kids aren't as big of a risk to him. Maybe he recieved a lot of treatment in prison and outside of prison and she feels he has better boundaries now? Maybe he was arrested for CP not actual molestation?

Without knowing any details it's hard to say, but I doubt it's a decision she made lightly. Fact is, a lot can change in the 20 years to life one is registered.

It's a big deal to rip a kid away from their father, even if he was in prison, even if he's a pedophile. Who's to say the effects of that wouldn't be as bad as living with stigmas? I don't know...it's a confusing issue.

What I don't get is how it's legal to stand outside of someone's house every day in a huge mob -- pitchforks and all -- protesting. If it were any other criminal but a sex offender, I don't think that would've gone down. Surely the police knew it would cause trouble and violence, and I bet they looked the other way to it. But everyone's got their moral authority on, I guess, and so they feel justified. *shrug*

Perps AND these people scared me...

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#263582 - 11/24/08 11:52 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
sunwolf Offline


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
The problem with "mob justice" is that maybe that guy was a pedophile, but i wonder a person is found gulty and he was not...(look at all the people set free today by dna that was not available when they were convivted) again, the person was innocent but found guilty and still the mob wants his head...that would be terrible...we need to do better...compassion and understanding and also knowing that we cant judge about something we dont know...
Rich in spite of all my concerns about the presence of a pedophile neighbor I salute you for your bravery in what you did!!!!!!!!!


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#263645 - 11/24/08 07:25 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: sunwolf]
Nathan LaChine Offline
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Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5381
Loc: Washington State
Rich,

My hat goes off to you for standing up in what you feel is right an just. The mod is a powerful force as many can be seduced by it's power, immediate exceptions, and freedom from personal responsibility. You stood up an correctly stated that he has served his time an does have a right to live his life. What I always find interesting is that by a community acting this way, they are directly increasing the likelihood that he will re-offend.

Nathan


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#263697 - 11/25/08 07:14 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Nathan LaChine]
Stretch73 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I agree with the likelihood of a person re-offending because of something like this, Nathan.

I find it also very interesting to read of law makers, and elected officials, and judges, and citizens screaming for the death penalty, (Another topic that was discussed here a few months back) for the first offense for those who would rape a child. While I believe a person such as that doesn't deserve to be walking around with the same freedoms and breathing the same oxygen as the rest of us, I cannot support the death penetaly for a number of reasons.

1)Those perpetrators who would otherwise rape and leave a child somewhere, would be more likely to murder that child to elimate potential prosecution, by covering up the evidence. Not a good thing, of course!

2)The death penalty is racially, sexually, ethically, economically and culturally biased, and even after all that, it has the potential of making a "fatal" mistake.

3)And finally, I still hang on to the glimmer of hope that people can change, thus I believe everyone deserves a second chance.

Now, I don't know where these ideals rank me in "societal morality," but I know that we just can't pluck along witht he idea that we can euthinize these people. I think a better solution is research, and some effective studies to tell us why people do this and what can we do to stop it. You commit 10 pedophiles to death today, I assure you, you're going to have 100,000 more to deal with. Are we ready for that?

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#263715 - 11/25/08 10:39 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I'm with you, Stretch. Right on. Even prison without the death penalty is ineffective in dealing with pedophiles.

I think there should be a treatment center/program for these people during their incarceration -- and until they meet certain criteria, they are living in there.

For example completing the program to the psychologist's guidelines, etc.

But then people cry foul because they don't want to spent the tax money. It always confuses me when they want one side AND the other. They want perps to stop, but don't want to spend the money on ways for them to stop.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#264471 - 11/30/08 10:35 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
LandOfShadow Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Quote:
according to the record, he has sought help and is currently in therapy for his desires.


This makes a huge difference to me. I would say the same thing Rich. And the mob is just horrible, in that, they believe this one person in their community is the problem. Nobody here wants to REALLY face the truth, and would rather attack blindly.

Maybe you could suggest this guy read a few of the very good books out there in order to BETTER keep kids safe. If he really wants to keep kids safe. Bloodsport seems more like it...

I'm sorry for you Rich.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#264485 - 11/30/08 01:29 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I think there should be a treatment center/program for these people during their incarceration -- and until they meet certain criteria, they are living in there.

I don't know about state and local inmate programs, but the Federal Bureau of Prisons has a treatment program for those convicted of offending against children. My wife's brother (sentenced to 15 years for SA against his son from ages 4 to 9 before he was caught sharing the pictures on the internet) is currently in the federal system and required to undergo psych eval and counseling. I've no knowledge whether the criteria for release is a specified level of progress on his psych eval or not. It would be nice if it were that way to be sure but I just don't know.

I can tell you that it's probably a good thing they kept him incarcerated prior to his trial because his arrest came only a couple of weeks after my own realizations of the truths of my childhood and I'd probably have lost control and throttled the guy. I'm not saying that would have been the correct thing to do, but I was in a bad spot.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I agree that the rule of law should prevail as Rich suggests, I also understand at least some of the anger, fear, ignorance, etc. that prevails in a community when a sex offender moves into the neighborhood. Not saying it's right. I believe everyone should use their intellect rather than their emotions when considering these things. That is something far to few people seem to understand the importance of it would seem.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#264496 - 11/30/08 02:39 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: WalkingSouth]
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rich,

I applaud you for standing up for the position of reason and sense against the mob - on this question and any other. I'm just sorry you got so much crap for stating at that meeting what everyone needed to hear.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#264497 - 11/30/08 02:56 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: roadrunner]
king tut Offline
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Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
That guy in the meeting treated you badly and you didn't deserve that, that man has issues by the sound of it.

The mob should not rule on things like this. The anger of people is understandable, but the communities actions in this case was disgraceful, the town meeting to sort it out was a good idea, but then every-day people don't know enough about this particular topic to make an informed decision, they just act from emotions, you on the other hand know more about this area and can make a more informed decision, their ignorance is not your fault.

There are some people that i would not tolerate living in my community and i would make sure they are out (i can think of a few cases from the news of people that if i found in my community i would want them out). Recently in my community a holding house- if that's what it's called, was bought by the authorities to house criminals including sexual abusers. It was just a terrace house but it was over-looking a school! so the community launched a petition and they had to withdraw from the area. That is a good way to go about it, but is a slightly different case.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#264503 - 11/30/08 03:55 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: king tut]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: king tut
Recently in my community a holding house- if that's what it's called, was bought by the authorities to house criminals including sexual abusers. It was just a terrace house but it was over-looking a school! so the community launched a petition and they had to withdraw from the area. That is a good way to go about it, but is a slightly different case.


There's no evidence to suggest living near a school or any place where children congregate increases the likelihood of them abusing more victims. Children are everywhere, and unless we ban sex offenders from planet Earth, we only hurt ourselves by taking away stable things in their lives (ie - their homes, jobs, etc.). It only gives them more reason to re-offend if they feel life is not worth living offense-free.

It's a hard pill to swallow, especially us victims, that we need to treat these people this way -- but it's a reality we must face if we really do strive for no more victims.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#264506 - 11/30/08 04:27 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Unfortunately, the simplistic "solutions" that the public and the politicians want to impose regarding sex offenders are not effective and at times counter-productive. The prohibitions of convicted sex offenders from being out or answering the door on Halloween is one of these "common sense" laws.

Research shows that almost no offenses (at least in the Seattle area where the local DA examined reports of sexual offenses on Halloween for 13 years) take place on that date. Yet, we somehow feel more confident and secure knowing that they will not be passing out candy or going trick-or-treating with their children.

Likewise, restricting where they live, whether a certain distance from schools, day care centers, playgrounds or even bus stops is based on emotion, not looking at the data.

Perhaps, one of these days, politicians will look at research rather than give the public what it thinks will make us feel safer and more secure.


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#264507 - 11/30/08 04:33 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
WalkingSouth Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
It's a hard pill to swallow, especially us victims, that we need to treat these people this way -- but it's a reality we must face if we really do strive for no more victims.

Society has a thin and very poorly understood line on which to walk when it comes to all this. There's no problem in being proactive to protect children but on the other hand as Andy points out, when we marginalize offenders to the point where there is little or no place for them to live, work, etc., their stress level increases to the point where acting out in ways that endanger children is much more likely.

What's bothersome is the knee-jerk reaction we're currently seeing in our society. Wouldn't it be better for our communities to come together, educate themselves on this issue and work together proactively not only to protect the children as a first priority, but also to take substantive steps that would also enable the convicted offender to more easily move toward not reoffending.

I remember Ken Singer one time posting the statistics regarding recidivism (reoffending after being convicted and serving time). I don't recall that number but do remember it being shockingly low. The conventional wisdom that if a convicted offender has done it once he'll be doing it the rest of his life is a fallacy. The facts simply don't back it up.

Let's not forget that by far the majority of cases of children being victimized (over 90% If I recall the figures correctly) happen within the home, the school, the church, the sports field, and it happens at the hands of someone in a position of authority over them or who are related to them by blood, and who has NEVER been convicted of a sex crime.

Society thinks it's done a good thing by relegating the offender to skid row because there's no place else he can legally live. We then walk off patting ourselves on the back, and all the while our children are being abused by those we know and trust right under our very nose. Too many times we choose symbolism over substantive solutions and the children pay the price.



_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#264513 - 11/30/08 05:31 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: WalkingSouth]
king tut Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
Mayor: "hey there, i want to open a house in which i can hold dangerous criminals and sex offenders unsupervised (to hold different criminals for temporary periods of times), you guys have any ideas where i should put them?"

Intelligence advisor: "oh yes i have a brilliant idea, we should put them in the house directly over-looking the primary school playground!"

Mayor: "ofcourse, why didn't i think of that, it will even give the sex-offenders something to look at during tea! then everybody is happy. I'm so glad i have your intelligence on my committee."

Intelligence advisor: "...but do you think it might be risky, holding all those dangerous criminals close to a school, do you think there is a chance that just one of them may flip out whilst waiting for conviction or other things? or maybe they will get pleasure from watching the children play? they do say that offenders always fantasize about doing something to a child before they actually do it"

Mayor: "nah i don't think so, we have to give these people the benefit of the doubt, and my kid doesn't go to that school anyway"

Intelligence advisor: "but i guess we could put them somewhere else, so that we are not puposefully giving dangerous criminals free access to vulnerable children"

Mayor: " no i liked your first idea best"





it's true there is a knee-jerk reaction in communities, but my example hardly qualifies as one of those so lets get some perspective for a minute and get real.

yeah its going to be hard for offenders to re-integrate, and if they find it hard there is a higher chance of re-offending

does that mean we should be complete morons? no, we shouldn't over-react, but then there is a balance between not over-reacting and being negligent and stupid.

and if the data says it's not more likely for sex offences to take place near schools, i wonder what the data will say once you move all the sex offenders near the schools like in my example, in the past people have had more sense than to purposefully place dangerous criminals around vulnerable people.

and Johns right anyway, most offenders are family members who havent committed an offence before, so giving ex-offenders chocolates and ribbons isn't exactly going to bring the numbers down.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#264516 - 11/30/08 05:51 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: king tut]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Lewis,

First please don't think my post was in response to yours. I would get a bit jumpy seeing a halfway house for convicted pedophiles sitting next door to my local elementary school also. On the other hand there is one less than half a mile from my home plus the community church over on the next block hosts, though does not run, a support group for convicted sex offenders each week.

We have regular neighborhood meetings in which those who operate these programs are available for questions and community is able to discuss these situations and others. We've had a few very lively discussions, but in practical fact the community is banding together to provide a much needed service while keeping a watchful eye on the situation. So far there have been no incidents either of abuse by one of the ex-cons or hate filled retaliation of some kind against them by anyone in the neighborhood. There are a couple of schools in the area but I think the law requires a buffer zone of several blocks around the schools.

It seems to be working quite well, at least in this situation, but probably wouldn't be if the community had not come together to work with all entities involved. I think what makes this work in our case is a very dedicated and effective public information officer from the local police department combining his talent with a couple of parole officers, a few dedicated citizen volunteers, and some counselors who know what their doing.

And no, you won't catch me attending one of the offender support meetings out of curiosity. Just ain't gonna happen.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#264517 - 11/30/08 05:55 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: king tut]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.


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#264520 - 11/30/08 06:15 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: steveb121]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: steveb121
I still hold my views, as both a survivor and worker in the field, that pedosceles need to be kept away from children, no excuses, and that apologists for them should stop doing so, because they will never stop harming a child


I knew it would come to this....you can't think logically or think about ALL sides of the issue without being labeled a f*cking "apologist."

You think just because I don't think like you I'm less of a survivor?

Why do I f*cking bother in this topic? It's like talking to a brick wall every time.


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#264538 - 11/30/08 09:00 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Andy, I don't think your statements are falling on deaf ears in any way, and I've heard some very-well-reasoned statements from others on this thread *(walkingsouth and you in particular)

Some of us had true monsters for parents.........in this case, my examples don't apply, obviously, but, don't you guys think that ALL of us tend to have biased and partial opinions about offenders and what can be most effective and humane in keeping them from re-offending? I know you're reading my reply here in baited breath, so let me grace you all with my opinions.

SOME of us have been outright attacked (an extremely small minority here) but MOST of us were victimized because we had PARENTS that FAILED (though neglect or outright abuse) by ALLOWING their children to become victims. The good parent allowed the evil step-father to abuse by ignoring the signs, both parents allowed the abuse by failing to discuss proper boundaries, the single parent that's working 2 jobs and letting her latch-key son hang out with the hardly-known adult male down the street, the mother that lets a cousin sleep over in the same room with her son and fails to notice that he was sodomized the night before while eating breakfast the next day, the single-mom that kicks her preteen son out the house during the day because she doesn't want him around or be part of his life, and on and ON and ON it goes. The list of examples of ignorance and neglect on the part of parents to keep children safe are legion, and the way I see it, passing laws like preventing offenders from access to affordable housing does NOT exonerate them (the parents) from their previous abdication of that responsibility.

I guess that what I'm getting at is that I sense that much of the public sympathy for such laws is that the parents and friends of the victims feel so guilty for having allowed their children to become victims, than any kind of law that can ostracize them will somehow vindicate them for allowing such an EASILY PREVENTED crime from happening in the first place. I say thee, nay, it does not.

*Are we allowed to mention the mods by name here or am I going to be put on a list?


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#264973 - 12/02/08 11:51 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Hauser]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1241
Loc: NY
I did not read the above posts. But, I would fully support your stance on the matter. I naturally take the side of the 'underdog,' and especially take that side when ever there is a lynching OR witchunt or general consensus to terminate! From what you know, it was the Law that Labeled him that, and I wonder how many people at that meeting were 'one of them,' or had 'fantasies like them,'.....!!!!!! "them" that they so highly Ignore and want to Hush up and put behind them. The real problem is they are not "Ted Bundy's"...... That is why it is so common, they fit in like me and you and people know that and want to hid it. I Know People That have traced there family tree/history and discovered that and uncle or grand father, had done 'funny things' with their family. No body wants to face that, just to stand together and hate it, and yes it is a terrible thing but to keep it forever secretive, to keep it hidden for ever, means that 'it' is never dealt with, and therefore never prevented!!!!!!!

I am proud of the stance that you took, Rich

It takes a Man, to take a stand that few like or support but is often the most important view.

You have hared what I have to say.

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#264974 - 12/03/08 12:09 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Look guys, I don't have all the answers and I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is either. I have some ideas but I'm not a professional and I don't consider myself someone who can sway the entire community into the direction I'm looking from anyway. Some would say, "When you catch one of these guys (and girls) just put them on one big island with lions, and tigers, and bears oh my!, and let them fend for themselves." Maybe that's a good idea, but I highly doubt it.

I think a more progressive and contructive plan would be to find out what makes these guys tick. What allows them to cross over from the fantasy of sexualizing a child to actually committing the crime, but I guess we first have to discover what makes someone attracted to children. Not all abusers were abused themselves, so you cannot use that theory for every candidate abuser.

I didn't do what I did because I'm apologetic to the offender, and I certainly didn't do it because I'm "one of them." I did it because I went with my gut and I believe the law worked when it punished the perpetrator, it worked when it released him to a program for sex offenders, and it should work when the man has paid for his crime. Like you, I believe he should suffer more, but that's just the angry side of me wanting revenge. I would actually settle for, "I'm sorry. I will never do it again." That would mean something to me, if it truly meant something to him.

I have high hopes for the next generations, that they will figure out what the problem is and work toward a direction of solving that problem. I hope that instead of waiting for the abuse to occur before they take action, they decide to practice prevention. Maybe then we can prevent the need for sites like this one and that one, and professionals with expertise in this field. Wouldn't that be great?

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#264981 - 12/03/08 12:45 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
I have high hopes for the next generations, that they will figure out what the problem is and work toward a direction of solving that problem. I hope that instead of waiting for the abuse to occur before they take action, they decide to practice prevention. Maybe then we can prevent the need for sites like this one and that one, and professionals with expertise in this field. Wouldn't that be great?


Well said.

Currently there are no sure shot answers. A lot of people have theories. Some have experience working with offenders. A few have both. Some ideas work better than others. Perhaps, just as we've beaten other major problems, we'll someday beat this one.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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