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#264507 - 11/30/08 04:33 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
It's a hard pill to swallow, especially us victims, that we need to treat these people this way -- but it's a reality we must face if we really do strive for no more victims.

Society has a thin and very poorly understood line on which to walk when it comes to all this. There's no problem in being proactive to protect children but on the other hand as Andy points out, when we marginalize offenders to the point where there is little or no place for them to live, work, etc., their stress level increases to the point where acting out in ways that endanger children is much more likely.

What's bothersome is the knee-jerk reaction we're currently seeing in our society. Wouldn't it be better for our communities to come together, educate themselves on this issue and work together proactively not only to protect the children as a first priority, but also to take substantive steps that would also enable the convicted offender to more easily move toward not reoffending.

I remember Ken Singer one time posting the statistics regarding recidivism (reoffending after being convicted and serving time). I don't recall that number but do remember it being shockingly low. The conventional wisdom that if a convicted offender has done it once he'll be doing it the rest of his life is a fallacy. The facts simply don't back it up.

Let's not forget that by far the majority of cases of children being victimized (over 90% If I recall the figures correctly) happen within the home, the school, the church, the sports field, and it happens at the hands of someone in a position of authority over them or who are related to them by blood, and who has NEVER been convicted of a sex crime.

Society thinks it's done a good thing by relegating the offender to skid row because there's no place else he can legally live. We then walk off patting ourselves on the back, and all the while our children are being abused by those we know and trust right under our very nose. Too many times we choose symbolism over substantive solutions and the children pay the price.



_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#264513 - 11/30/08 05:31 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: WalkingSouth]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Mayor: "hey there, i want to open a house in which i can hold dangerous criminals and sex offenders unsupervised (to hold different criminals for temporary periods of times), you guys have any ideas where i should put them?"

Intelligence advisor: "oh yes i have a brilliant idea, we should put them in the house directly over-looking the primary school playground!"

Mayor: "ofcourse, why didn't i think of that, it will even give the sex-offenders something to look at during tea! then everybody is happy. I'm so glad i have your intelligence on my committee."

Intelligence advisor: "...but do you think it might be risky, holding all those dangerous criminals close to a school, do you think there is a chance that just one of them may flip out whilst waiting for conviction or other things? or maybe they will get pleasure from watching the children play? they do say that offenders always fantasize about doing something to a child before they actually do it"

Mayor: "nah i don't think so, we have to give these people the benefit of the doubt, and my kid doesn't go to that school anyway"

Intelligence advisor: "but i guess we could put them somewhere else, so that we are not puposefully giving dangerous criminals free access to vulnerable children"

Mayor: " no i liked your first idea best"





it's true there is a knee-jerk reaction in communities, but my example hardly qualifies as one of those so lets get some perspective for a minute and get real.

yeah its going to be hard for offenders to re-integrate, and if they find it hard there is a higher chance of re-offending

does that mean we should be complete morons? no, we shouldn't over-react, but then there is a balance between not over-reacting and being negligent and stupid.

and if the data says it's not more likely for sex offences to take place near schools, i wonder what the data will say once you move all the sex offenders near the schools like in my example, in the past people have had more sense than to purposefully place dangerous criminals around vulnerable people.

and Johns right anyway, most offenders are family members who havent committed an offence before, so giving ex-offenders chocolates and ribbons isn't exactly going to bring the numbers down.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#264516 - 11/30/08 05:51 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: king tut]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Lewis,

First please don't think my post was in response to yours. I would get a bit jumpy seeing a halfway house for convicted pedophiles sitting next door to my local elementary school also. On the other hand there is one less than half a mile from my home plus the community church over on the next block hosts, though does not run, a support group for convicted sex offenders each week.

We have regular neighborhood meetings in which those who operate these programs are available for questions and community is able to discuss these situations and others. We've had a few very lively discussions, but in practical fact the community is banding together to provide a much needed service while keeping a watchful eye on the situation. So far there have been no incidents either of abuse by one of the ex-cons or hate filled retaliation of some kind against them by anyone in the neighborhood. There are a couple of schools in the area but I think the law requires a buffer zone of several blocks around the schools.

It seems to be working quite well, at least in this situation, but probably wouldn't be if the community had not come together to work with all entities involved. I think what makes this work in our case is a very dedicated and effective public information officer from the local police department combining his talent with a couple of parole officers, a few dedicated citizen volunteers, and some counselors who know what their doing.

And no, you won't catch me attending one of the offender support meetings out of curiosity. Just ain't gonna happen.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#264517 - 11/30/08 05:55 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: king tut]
steveb121 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Swindon, UK
.


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#264520 - 11/30/08 06:15 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: steveb121]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: steveb121
I still hold my views, as both a survivor and worker in the field, that pedosceles need to be kept away from children, no excuses, and that apologists for them should stop doing so, because they will never stop harming a child


I knew it would come to this....you can't think logically or think about ALL sides of the issue without being labeled a f*cking "apologist."

You think just because I don't think like you I'm less of a survivor?

Why do I f*cking bother in this topic? It's like talking to a brick wall every time.


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#264538 - 11/30/08 09:00 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Andy, I don't think your statements are falling on deaf ears in any way, and I've heard some very-well-reasoned statements from others on this thread *(walkingsouth and you in particular)

Some of us had true monsters for parents.........in this case, my examples don't apply, obviously, but, don't you guys think that ALL of us tend to have biased and partial opinions about offenders and what can be most effective and humane in keeping them from re-offending? I know you're reading my reply here in baited breath, so let me grace you all with my opinions.

SOME of us have been outright attacked (an extremely small minority here) but MOST of us were victimized because we had PARENTS that FAILED (though neglect or outright abuse) by ALLOWING their children to become victims. The good parent allowed the evil step-father to abuse by ignoring the signs, both parents allowed the abuse by failing to discuss proper boundaries, the single parent that's working 2 jobs and letting her latch-key son hang out with the hardly-known adult male down the street, the mother that lets a cousin sleep over in the same room with her son and fails to notice that he was sodomized the night before while eating breakfast the next day, the single-mom that kicks her preteen son out the house during the day because she doesn't want him around or be part of his life, and on and ON and ON it goes. The list of examples of ignorance and neglect on the part of parents to keep children safe are legion, and the way I see it, passing laws like preventing offenders from access to affordable housing does NOT exonerate them (the parents) from their previous abdication of that responsibility.

I guess that what I'm getting at is that I sense that much of the public sympathy for such laws is that the parents and friends of the victims feel so guilty for having allowed their children to become victims, than any kind of law that can ostracize them will somehow vindicate them for allowing such an EASILY PREVENTED crime from happening in the first place. I say thee, nay, it does not.

*Are we allowed to mention the mods by name here or am I going to be put on a list?


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#264973 - 12/02/08 11:51 PM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Hauser]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
I did not read the above posts. But, I would fully support your stance on the matter. I naturally take the side of the 'underdog,' and especially take that side when ever there is a lynching OR witchunt or general consensus to terminate! From what you know, it was the Law that Labeled him that, and I wonder how many people at that meeting were 'one of them,' or had 'fantasies like them,'.....!!!!!! "them" that they so highly Ignore and want to Hush up and put behind them. The real problem is they are not "Ted Bundy's"...... That is why it is so common, they fit in like me and you and people know that and want to hid it. I Know People That have traced there family tree/history and discovered that and uncle or grand father, had done 'funny things' with their family. No body wants to face that, just to stand together and hate it, and yes it is a terrible thing but to keep it forever secretive, to keep it hidden for ever, means that 'it' is never dealt with, and therefore never prevented!!!!!!!

I am proud of the stance that you took, Rich

It takes a Man, to take a stand that few like or support but is often the most important view.

You have hared what I have to say.

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#264974 - 12/03/08 12:09 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: AndyJB2005]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Look guys, I don't have all the answers and I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is either. I have some ideas but I'm not a professional and I don't consider myself someone who can sway the entire community into the direction I'm looking from anyway. Some would say, "When you catch one of these guys (and girls) just put them on one big island with lions, and tigers, and bears oh my!, and let them fend for themselves." Maybe that's a good idea, but I highly doubt it.

I think a more progressive and contructive plan would be to find out what makes these guys tick. What allows them to cross over from the fantasy of sexualizing a child to actually committing the crime, but I guess we first have to discover what makes someone attracted to children. Not all abusers were abused themselves, so you cannot use that theory for every candidate abuser.

I didn't do what I did because I'm apologetic to the offender, and I certainly didn't do it because I'm "one of them." I did it because I went with my gut and I believe the law worked when it punished the perpetrator, it worked when it released him to a program for sex offenders, and it should work when the man has paid for his crime. Like you, I believe he should suffer more, but that's just the angry side of me wanting revenge. I would actually settle for, "I'm sorry. I will never do it again." That would mean something to me, if it truly meant something to him.

I have high hopes for the next generations, that they will figure out what the problem is and work toward a direction of solving that problem. I hope that instead of waiting for the abuse to occur before they take action, they decide to practice prevention. Maybe then we can prevent the need for sites like this one and that one, and professionals with expertise in this field. Wouldn't that be great?

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#264981 - 12/03/08 12:45 AM Re: Sex Offender - Did I Support Him or The Law? [Re: Stretch73]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
I have high hopes for the next generations, that they will figure out what the problem is and work toward a direction of solving that problem. I hope that instead of waiting for the abuse to occur before they take action, they decide to practice prevention. Maybe then we can prevent the need for sites like this one and that one, and professionals with expertise in this field. Wouldn't that be great?


Well said.

Currently there are no sure shot answers. A lot of people have theories. Some have experience working with offenders. A few have both. Some ideas work better than others. Perhaps, just as we've beaten other major problems, we'll someday beat this one.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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