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#26319 - 12/10/02 03:05 AM Re: do I forgive ?
Mark S Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 130
Loc: England
Roy.

In answer to your question. Yes I forgive myself for believing it was my fault. Whilst I always knew I wasn't to blame, (I couldn't have been I was paralysed from the neck down and in hospital when my rapist, a male nurse decided I was fair game). however I always thought in someway I had made him rape/abuse me or that I had someway asked for it. I was VERY naive and didn't realise there were so many nasty people in the world, (The first time he raped me I was 17, and he continued to rape/abuse me during my stay). It happened again two years later when I was re-admitted to the same hospital, by the same nurse.

I now realise I was in NO way at fault and forgive myself for ever feeling I was.

Hope that clarifies my situation.

Mark S


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#26320 - 12/10/02 07:41 AM Re: do I forgive ?
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Roy,

Another answer to your question
Quote:
But since I now realize I did nothing wrong, there is nothing to forgive. When you say you forgive yourself do you mean forgiving yourself for thinking it was your fault?
Yes!
For thinking and unwittingly buying into all the $**t my perp(s) put on me:
- the shame
- thinking it was my fault; after all, didn't I enjoy the sex?
--- for feeling like I was a dirty little faggot because I did like the good feelings from the sex
- for thinking I could have stopped it at any point but didn't
- for keeping the secret!
--- for knowing the abuse was a bad thing all along

I gotta stop. Too many feelings coming up for me now about this. I can consciencely decide to not go diving into my pit of $**t and wallow.

So many good posts on the topic of forgiveness!!! Points of view I've never considered or thought of; lots I agree with, lots I don't.

I'm just beginning to get to my anger. I'm finding my inner teenager(s) who are enraged about lots. I gotta a ways to go to connect the feelings with the events (abuse). I'm doing EMDR with my T, it's helping with all this.

I can't bypass the feelings, skip past jail, and go directly to forgiveness.

My thanks to all who have posted on this topic and all the other topics in this forum and the others!!! Posting for myself is still hard for me.

Peace my brothers (and sisters),
- jer


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#26321 - 12/21/02 03:19 PM Re: do I forgive ?
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi Dave

"My abusers, and there were many of them, I feel ever so slightly less hatred for. But it's no longer a consuming hatred, and it certainly doesn't stretch to forgiveness. Again, why should I ? I haven't yet figured out any gain from forgiving them, maybe someday I will.

I have no reason to forgive these bastards, how can I after over 30 years of hell ?"

I fully agree as i have been thinking just recently about the act of forgiveness....My hate keeps me going without it I'm dead as i feel nothing at all then.

Interesting to read you come from Shropshire!
Me too I'm up at Radbrook Green

Kindest regards at this time of year.

Kirk

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)


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#26322 - 12/21/02 03:20 PM Re: do I forgive ?
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi Dave

"My abusers, and there were many of them, I feel ever so slightly less hatred for. But it's no longer a consuming hatred, and it certainly doesn't stretch to forgiveness. Again, why should I ? I haven't yet figured out any gain from forgiving them, maybe someday I will.

I have no reason to forgive these bastards, how can I after over 30 years of hell ?"

I fully agree as i have been thinking just recently about the act of forgiveness....My hate keeps me going without it I'm dead as i feel nothing at all then.

Interesting to read you come from Shropshire!
Me too I'm up at Radbrook Green

Kindest regards at this time of year.

Kirk

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)


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#26323 - 12/21/02 11:45 PM Re: do I forgive ?
seaotter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 16
Loc: Netherlands, EU
Oh, Boy. The forgiving part.

Somehow it always seem to come back and haunt me.
Sure, I know that as a good Christian, I am required to forgive all those who trespass against me. But I cannot. And, by God, I have tried and prayed. How can I forgive such animals?
Do they deserve such kindness, and am I indeed worse off, if I do not grant them forgiveness?

I do not believe my life will become any easier or the nightmares will come no more. I wake up, on average twice every night, soaking wet and terrified. Then I see the scars every morning in the bathroom mirror. Cigaretteburns, cutmarks, Ever-lasting "souvenirs" from my earlier days. I remember the pain and have to make my way around with excuses, every time somebody notices these physical markings. How many times have I tried to explain but couldn't get the words out?

I have come to believe that some things, do not need to be forgiven. I'll let God be their judge, and I am rather sure He'll cut me some slack.
I do however still ask Him, from time to time, why He didn't help me back then. But then again, I guess even God can not bear to see some sights. And there are so many of those.

All the best,

seaotter.


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#26324 - 12/22/02 10:24 AM Re: do I forgive ?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Seaotter:

Welcome to MS. I'm not glad for why you're here, but I'm glad you're here.

Some other very recent threads on this topic include: "Forgive & You Will Be Forgiven," "Forgive", & "The Process of Forgiveness," all started December 8; and "How Do You Forgive Someone Who Has Ruined Your Life?," started December 4. Perhaps something in there, along with what's in this good thread, will help in some way.

Take care of you

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#26325 - 12/31/02 11:55 AM Re: do I forgive ?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
I think the above are some beautiful insights and basic truths on forgiveness.

Alice Miller said ď...your body will present its billĒ

Iíve carried my rage for many years, and if you asked me where in my body I carried
this rage I would say, ďin my back.Ē If I carried it in front of me Iím afraid I would hurt
someone,and so to the back it went. Iíve always been afraid of the destructive
potential of my rage.

It even leaked out as my irritability and ambivalence during preparations for the merry
ďFduckingĒ Christmas festivities. I even apologized for this unacknowledged ďtraditionĒ
while saying grace Christmas Eve. My daughter tried unsuccessfully to restrain her
laughter when this apology caught her offguard. I know it wasnít fun experiencing my
foulness when it occured.

Iíve held on to this rage partially because I donít know what life would look like without
it. As archnut says,Ē Iím dead without it..Ē It has been a concious part of my recovery to
find a respectful place for anger and not have it be a focal point of my life. My anger
kept me shut down emotionally (understandably) and numbness substituted for my
emotional life. Donít hurt, donít be angry mentras by nature also shut out feelings of
joy, grief, nurturing, and being nurtured, and more. I guess I could say that beside my
anger, I also stored my pain in my back.

I also thought If I did recovery work and healed emotionally, I could minimize delayed
physical consequences of my childhood trauma. Well I didnít duck the ďbill.Ē I have
degenerative bone disease in my back. When I first heard the diagnosis It sounded to
me like I have only a couple of weeks left to live. Not so. Itís a form of arthritis that is in
my back. It is not unusual to find this in an aging population, but I was only 35 yrs. old.

It is now 20 years later and it is eating up discs, depositing calcium wherever it wants
to, and just wreaking havoc. There is a song ny back now sings called ď Iíve got spurs
that jingle jangle jingle.Ē The calcium deposits are causing a narrowing of the hole
in the vertibrae that allows the spinal column to pass, thus pinching it. Not a good
thing. I feel like I get around like I would expect a ninety year old to, with all due
respect and best wishes to healthy 90 yr. olds

I guess itís just the way it is with rage and my back.

I guess I have to forgive myself for "letting" this physical manifestation to develope.
I don't know what I could have done different. I guess this is another "betrayal" by
my body.


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#26326 - 12/31/02 02:15 PM Re: do I forgive ?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Will i ever be capable of forgiving myself?????

will that ever be possible????????

michael


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#26327 - 01/06/03 05:24 AM Re: do I forgive ?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
It felt good to vent about The District TV show on Sat.


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#26328 - 01/06/03 08:11 AM Re: do I forgive ?
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
RJD
Cool rant, well done. I wish I could do that.

http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/spiritualhealing.asp

This link offers a "deeper" religious view on forgivness. Read down near the bottom, following the quote in the link is a whole section listing alternatives to the bible thumping idiots*:
Quote:
Fighting Fire with Fire

The institutional abuse experienced by CSA survivors reflects what I call "DIM thinking" (Denial, Ignorance, and Minimization). It must be combated with deeper spiritual truths. Sadly, the distortions coming from "spiritual" leaders are often filled with abusive theology. As a result, a potential source of comfort for Christian survivors may be turned into a weapon.
This is where I found the above, credit and my thanks to Orodo for posting a classified about this web site:
Quote:
orodo
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/Default.asp
I found this tonite...hope it is helpful...
-jer

* sorry if this inflammatory label offends anyone


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