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#261382 - 11/12/08 09:00 PM 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse??
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
There is a possibility that this kid has been pyschially or sexually abused. I know a fellow survivor with pyschal / sexual abuse history who has contacted the boys attorney to be a witness in the case if necessary. Right now we may have to wait but I wanted to pass along this note from my friend (non-ms member) so that you will be aware and in the future maybe you can help to keep this boy alive. They have charged him as an adult and he could possibly face the death penalty

" I have been in touch with the Atty defending the 8yo boy in AZ whom reportedly murdered his father and his father's friend. He is under a gag-order but he could listen to what I and WE can possibly offer.

Here's a chance for us to reach out to an 8 yo boy and pull him from a possible death sentence and a life of hell. He clearly (IMO) was defending himself from some sort of abuse. I have offered support in the following way:

1) Parallel-situation witness
2) Funding
3) My network (you guys and or professionals)
4) Whatever else we can think of.

So here it is guys. Are we willing to step up? I dont mean to put anyone on the spot. I just want to open a form where we can discuss ideas of support. I think we have a lot to offer....even if its just money, even if its just our stories or testimonies."

8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father Police Investigating Possible Abuse As Motive

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#261389 - 11/12/08 09:31 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: onlyakid]
pluckmemory Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 562
There's not a chance in hell an 8-year-old gets a death sentence. If he was abused, then I feel terrible for him. However, that's no excuse to murder one's parents. The Menendez brothers tried that tack to and it didn't work.


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#261396 - 11/12/08 10:03 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: pluckmemory]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Jason,

I agree with pluckmemory, there's no way this boy faces the death penalty. I first read the story this afternoon but at that time, they hadn't said anything about abuse; they didn't have to for my mind to go there. No way this child took a shot gun to two adult men without fearing for his life. Reading the article, it's apparent that all involved are following procedures but they're fully aware that all was not well in that home.

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#261403 - 11/12/08 10:24 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: pluckmemory]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
The boy will not get the death penalty, there is no chance of that at all, and nobody suggests it.

The father had full custody of the boy. The fathers work friend was renting a room. The boy had a spotless school record, never been in trouble, no child protection services ever involved, but police have responded to calls of domestic violence before. The fact that child protection services have never been involved means nothing. This is a situation where abuse is a real possibility. Maybe the boy was being abused, maybe the boy was upset about something. Abuse is probable in my opinion.

The fact is the boy had access to a .22-caliber rifle. I know in America you are big on the right to arms, but the fact is if i had access to a rifle when i was a kid there were times when i would have used it too. Kids think one step at a time, don't understand the consequences. When kids have access to guns, people die. It takes effort with any other weapon, with a gun all you have to do is pull the trigger, no battle, just victory, too dangerous.

I am not taking all the blame away from him, he is a murderer and he is clearly troubled and he will need constant psychological treatment and observation now, his life wont be the same. I know the saying "guns don't kill people, people do" and so i wont argue that, but the fact that he had access to the gun is a matter of accountability also, premeditation is important, although maybe not so important in a pro-longed environment of abuse since it creates a dynamic, but access to a gun readily extinguishes (to an extent) aspects of premiditation (at least with a young child) eliminating the factors attached to this term that imply accountability and blame.

Suffice to say, a lot of work needs to be done with this child, and i believe that the necessary systems that are already in place will deal with this adequately enough without any real need for intervention, we are in a time of knowledge and i doubt very much that there will be an excess of poor judgement in this case.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#261411 - 11/12/08 10:41 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: king tut]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Quote:
The fact is the boy had access to a .22-caliber rifle. I know in America you are big on the right to arms, but the fact is if i had access to a rifle when i was a kid there were times when i would have used it too. Kids think one step at a time, don't understand the consequences. When kids have access to guns, people die. It takes effort with any other weapon, with a gun all you have to do is pull the trigger, no battle, just victory, too dangerous.


Let's please not hijack this thread and turn it into a gun rights argument.

_________________________
My Story

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#261417 - 11/12/08 11:16 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: Barkabus]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
trust me, Mike, that wasn't my intention, it's part of the arguement of why and what now

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#261418 - 11/12/08 11:37 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: king tut]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
This is Arizona, where he might get life in prison if convicted as an adult, even though he is 8 years old. There are a number of States where this would not be the case but generally the American south is the worst place for a kid to try this kind of thing. They just don't seem to care what the reason was. About the only issue is whether the kid should have known that what he was doing was wrong or not. That kid in Florida that was convicted as an adult at the age of 12 is back in the joint for violating his parole. So this kind of outcome isn't that far-fetched given some history in Arizona and the deep South.

There was a case in Wyoming a few years back where some high-school age kid blew his abusive father away with a shotgun and got a more-lenient sentence but he still ended-up serving 8 years I believe. They made the case into a made-for-TV movie. I think that the kid's name was Richard Jahnke but I am not sure.

What can we do to help?

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#261423 - 11/13/08 12:09 AM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: king tut]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Not to make any real point but as a matter of pondering lets cross out some things that don't apply to me and observe the outcome:

Originally Posted By: king tut

The father had full custody of the boy. The fathers work friend was renting a room. The boy had a spotless school record, never been in trouble, no child protection services ever involved, but police have responded to calls of domestic violence before. The fact that child protection services have never been involved means nothing. This is a situation where abuse is a real possibility. Maybe the boy was being abused, maybe the boy was upset about something. Abuse is probable in my opinion.

The fact is the boy had access to a .22-caliber rifle. I know in America you are big on the right to arms, but the fact is if i had access to a rifle when i was a kid there were times when i would have used it too. Kids think one step at a time, don't understand the consequences. When kids have access to guns, people die. It takes effort with any other weapon, with a gun all you have to do is pull the trigger, no battle, just victory, too dangerous.

I am not taking all the blame away from him, he is a murderer and he is clearly troubled (?) and he will need constant psychological treatment and observation now, his life wont be the same. I know the saying "guns don't kill people, people do" and so i wont argue that, but the fact that he had access to the gun is a matter of accountability also, premeditation is important, although maybe not so important in a pro-longed environment of abuse since it creates a dynamic, but access to a gun readily extinguishes (to an extent) aspects of premiditation (at least with a young child) eliminating the factors attached to this term that imply accountability and blame.




Now lets (try to) clarify why my arguement isn't one of the right to arms but is in fact fundamentlly relevant:

Take two people both with the desire to protect themselves by eliminating the enemy. One person has the means to eliminate the enemy easily so he does. The other person doesn't have the means to eliminate the enemy easily so he doesn't.

You may argue that anybody who really wants to kill somebody will find a way, but that's not true, the extent and means that somebody will take has a proportionality and psychology attached to it which has implications when analysing intent and reason and evaluating punishments and accountability. Availability and ease are therefore some factors in method and are therefore important according to this arguement. The mechanism is therefore important and says a lot about the case and it would be a neglect if this is not considered in the trial. As i outlined earlier, this is the thin line between two identical scenarios that predicts the fundamental outcome and is therefore key when analysing by contrast.

So the big difference here is one of them is now a murderer and the other isn't even though they are in the exact same position. IT IS A MATTER OF LOSING INFORMATION BY IGNORING THE MECHANISM, not making an arguement about an american law that i have never given much thought to in any case. If the boy had used an axe it would be a different analysis. A child with a gun has an analysis of its own, which can be expanded into all areas of the case when evaluating the mentality, nature and intention involved in this case and therfore goes a long way to developing an adequate reaction.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#261439 - 11/13/08 08:52 AM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: Trucker51]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
>What can we do to help?

Right now, nothing but I will keep you informed of anything that develops.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#262893 - 11/20/08 02:27 PM Re: 8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father: Abuse?? [Re: onlyakid]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
It's worth remembering that ten years ago two 7 and 8-year-old boys were accused of raping and murdering an 11-year-old girl. They confessed under the same circumstances as this boy did. The police claimed they had evidence proving the boys committed the crime. It turned out, however, that they were completely innocent. That might not be the case here, but cases like this do tend to end with the police having coerced a false confession. I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to plant evidence.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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