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#273033 - 01/28/09 08:29 PM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as chi [Re: joelRT]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6866
Loc: USA
He's going to be on TV tonight. ABC's Nightline. In my region it comes on at 11:30 pm. I'm already getting tired of hearing about it though.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#273072 - 01/29/09 01:50 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as chi [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6866
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
He's going to be on TV tonight. ABC's Nightline.


I'm very unexcited about his so-called repentance. Yes, he has the right words and the right composure. But that's just it. He should be wallowing in tears of repentance if it were genuine.

I am tired of giving attention to this bad guy. I'm going to say no more about it.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#273086 - 01/29/09 07:36 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as child" [Re: Blurry]
mapleleafsn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Eastern Canada
Yesterday My wife and I watched Ted tell his story, along with his wife and children in the audience of, yes Oprah. I found him to be quite open and willing to be accountable for his acting out behaviours. He has accepted his infidelity to his wife and taken his lumps from the rest of the congregation. Isn't it a shame how our society wishes to place some on pedastels and expect perfection? When will we realize that people who hold leadership positions in our communities are as much human as we are. Why is it that when a neighbour falls into a pit we will gladly extend a helping hand, but if a leader falls in to the very same pit he will be met with a crowd of angry people wishing to throw stones down and beat him senselessly?

He mentioned that he did not think of the sexual experience with an adult at age 7 as abuse because it did not involve violence. This I found to be very familiar. I too did not believe the relationship I had with my uncle while I was 6yrs old to be abusive because there was no violence. In fact my uncle made me feel that I was special, wanted and apprieciated. It was not even brought in to the picture until his T was digging in his brain why he was still wetting the bed in grade 6. Most of my denial of the abuse was for the exact reason. If it had of involved pain or discomfort perhaps both he(Ted) and I would have found treatment and counseling much sooner.

In my opinion I found that he has a very, very supportive wife and children. As we all know too well, it is the ones that are closest to us that get hit the hardest with our actions. The congregation unfairly treated his wife and children with the same contempt that they had for him. These were innocent by-standers. They too were totally unaware of his "double life" until the story broke and he had to confess to the accusations. Not only did they have to deal with the pain of there father's lies and denials, they had the whole community slamming them and treating them unjustly.

It opened up more topics for my wife and I to discuss as I too try to rebuild the relationship that I have cause so much trouble in. I do realize that we are still fighting many battles to get the general public aware that male's are survivors of sexual abuse too. Many will use his case as Grandstanding or whatever. To me I feel that it was another opportunity to get some recognition to the situations that we face on a daily basis.

Just my thoughts

Steve

One man's thoughts

_________________________
When the pain of remaining the same finally outweighs the pain of change---things will begin.... life is meant to be enjoyed not endured.

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#273131 - 01/29/09 12:44 PM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as child" [Re: mapleleafsn]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: mapleleafsn
Isn't it a shame how our society wishes to place some on pedastels and expect perfection? When will we realize that people who hold leadership positions in our communities are as much human as we are. Why is it that when a neighbour falls into a pit we will gladly extend a helping hand, but if a leader falls in to the very same pit he will be met with a crowd of angry people wishing to throw stones down and beat him senselessly?


I find this situation usually occurs most often when the leaders involved have placed themselves on that pedestal, or have actively encouraged others to place them there. And it's not so much a matter of falling into the same pit as the "common man"; often the leader has created the pit. Or noticed, announced, and expounded the existence of the pit, declaring that "all who fall into this pit are somehow bad". A politician who passes anti-prostitution legislation and is later caught in a hooker sting will draw righteous indignation from the people. As will a member of the clergy who tells you that homosexual activity is a sin against God, while engaging in the same activity himself. Such a clergyman chose his position; he chooses which sermons he gives and he writes them himself. He chooses to present himself as a role model, the way people are supposed to act. Of course people are going to be upset when he fails to meet the same standards he insists others place on themselves. And in this particular case, after his disgrace, just when everyone starts to no longer care, he actively draws the spotlight back to himself again and again.

But this is neither here nor there; either way, the more I read, the more difficult it is for me to think of Haggard as a fellow with an odd compulsion who is merely the victim of circumstance. I've just read a CNN article about an interview with another "temporary associate" (using the word "victim" might be considered loaded by some) of Haggards - an individual who, it should be noted, would not be saying anything at all if Haggard were not doing his aforementioned spotlight-grabbing - who described his encounter with Haggard.

Quote:
Haas said he met Haggard in 2005 at New Life Church. He was 22 years old, far from home and struggling with his sexuality.

Haas said he was "kicked out" of a conservative Christian college and moved to Colorado Springs to attend a Colorado University branch. While there, he began attending Haggard's church, eventually becoming a volunteer in the pastor's office.

Shortly after he disclosed his struggle with his sexual identity, Haggard "lit up," Haas said. He said he expected Haggard to be "a friend who I could talk to about it." But he said Haggard -- whom he said was usually easygoing and joking, even about sex -- soon began asking him questions about sex and drugs.

"He could be the nice 50-year-old pastor who's godly, and the next minute he's this horny 16-year-old boy," he said. "I never knew what I was going to get, and part of me hoped the 16-year-old horny boy would go away and the Ted Haggard I knew -- that I started my relationship off with -- would come back."

Their alleged hotel-room encounter occurred in July 2006, in the mountain town of Cripple Creek, Colorado, during a church trip Haas said started off "comfortable at first." They went to a show, then went back to the room Haggard had rented with a single bed, Haas said.

Haas said Haggard wanted to play "truth or dare," and the game "just got weirder and weirder." By the end of the night, he said, the pastor had masturbated next to him in the bed and then expressed remorse for his actions.

"He just started weeping in bed and told me the Holy Spirit was really angry at him, that he shouldn't be doing this with me -- that I was supposed to be a pastor, and he wants to make that happen still."

When Haas awoke the next morning, he said Haggard was praying, speaking in tongues and asking him to pray with him. Haas said he did not report Haggard's conduct until after the pastor was gone, because many parishioners and church leaders "believed Ted was the right hand of God."


When I was younger, I learned a joke that I always thought was a little funny. It goes, "When I was 9 years old, I prayed every night for God to give me a new bicycle. Eventually I found out that God doesn't work that way...so, I just stole a bicycle and prayed for forgiveness." Of course, the joke somewhat misrepresents the Christian doctrine of grace. Most Christians really don't believe they can sin all they want so long as they repent at some point; you're really supposed to try not to sin at all. But according to this newest claimant, Haggard actually really WAS the "steal a bike and then pray for forgiveness" type.

Haggard's most recent statement, which seems to confirm the new claimant's story, seems to cast a little light on his attitude:

Quote:
"Prior to that time, I discussed it with my wife, my therapist and our children," Haggard said. "Although there was no physical contact, I have regretted my irresponsible behavior. Once again, I ask Grant for his forgiveness as well as the people of the church."


What's written between the lines? Well, anybody can put anything they want there, really. But if I were to be open about what I think, then based on what's happened so far I don't see an apology in there. Apparently what happened is OK with Haggard's wife and kids, and that's all that matters - now Haggard owes this Grant fellow nothing, and Grant owes Haggard forgiveness. After all, isn't that the correct, proper, Christian thing to do - forgive when it is asked? Isn't that would Jesus would do?

I don't think Haggard is a swindler or charlatan; I think he really is Christian, and really believes everything he says as a pastor. But I think that he's "gaming the system", as it were.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#273204 - 01/29/09 09:59 PM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as child" [Re: melliferal]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: melliferal
I don't think Haggard is a swindler or charlatan; I think he really is Christian, and really believes everything he says as a pastor. But I think that he's "gaming the system", as it were.


I can agree with that.

I also think every one of us has a tendency to "game", especially when we're new to recovery. I know I spent some time "gaming my T" till it suddenly dawned on me he knew I was and that I wasn't doing myself any good by it and was wasting both of our time. It's very difficult to understand, let alone admit that not only were we abused but in all likelihood we've spent the last umpteen years doing things that betrayed our family and ourselves in some way, that maybe we've even acted in ways that could cost us our family, career, or our freedom.

"Gaming the system"? Yup. We spin it, we minimize, we try to salvage some vestige of "the face we give the world", at least for a while, but I think most of us, especially the guys here, realize the futility and take the steps necessary to our recovery.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#273240 - 01/30/09 10:13 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as chi [Re: pufferfish]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
He should be wallowing in tears of repentance if it were genuine.
being a person who seldom (if ever) cries in remorse over myself - i find this statement almost triggering. i may weep over someone else - but not myself. self-image and all that... i also have a hard time with the notion that any of us, myself foremost, have the right to decide how someone else should display their grief.

now, "gaming" - yeah, i can buy that. The number of years i was at a conservative church, convinced i was bound to hell for my feelings. "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he." i didn't even have to be "partaking" - i just had to be thinking it. i can only imagine the agony Ted has suffered.

Originally Posted By: melliferal
After all, isn't that the correct, proper, Christian thing to do - forgive when it is asked? Isn't that would Jesus would do?
The way i read the Bible, we are to forgive whether or not the other person asks for it. Christ forgave the woman caught in adultery - but nowhere do we read that she repented of her actions or was even sorry she got caught. ... but then, i'm assuming this was a serious question and not something less ...




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#273797 - 02/03/09 09:49 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: forgiven [Re: Blurry]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i had been wanting to share an update on my thoughts and feelings around this subject in light of the recent media appearances regarding ted's evolving saga.

i watched him on abc, on oprah, and on larry king live.

i want to say how i am grateful to have had the opportunity to witness this man's true conversion, from right wing religious conservative to a 3 diminsional human being.

and not that i needed verification from him, but watching him rise on the wings of his faith, was seen as evidence that the power which saved him from his own self-deceit is the same power that had been available to him all along. he was talking a lot about salvation, distorting the true message of unconditional love, because he had not yet met 'the savior'.

but now it is glorious to see a fallen human being in a supreme 'aha!' moment, as he comes to realize that the love of the creator is not contingent upon following the set of rules. that love is unconditional.

i am gratified that he apologized to the gay community, but i still think he has a of long way to go in his acceptance of the diversity of human sexual relationship [which imho is a personal and social justice issue], as he has stated that he believes heterosexuality to be god's plan for creation. well yes it is, but not to the exclusion of other modes of sexual expression.

gayle haggard is the new eve figure for christian women today. her behavior in forgiving and accepting the flaws of her husband has shown all of us the wonderful healing power of redemption.

ted was a victim of so many things, like the rest of of. but as he confirmed for us as we watched with bated breath the drama unfold: suppressing core emotions, eliminating the possibility of their resolution in love and light leads to personal distortion, compulsion and loss of perspective.

i wish you well ted and family. may you be fully restored to be the awesome creature god intended when he first got the idea to make you in the first place.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#332973 - 06/05/10 07:28 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as child" [Re: Blurry]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
the recent news

joy behar is pretty relentless in her grilling of ted. she did a great job of prodding him to explain where he stands on issues of homosexuality. i am disappointed though that she left off the end of this interview clip where he stated that his homosexual behavior was a result of acting out from sexual abuse.

i applaud him for reaching that realization, and i believe him. but i also believe that his choice to become religious in the first place was acting out as well; an attempt to mask his sexual abuse experience and its effects. he harbored guilt and shame, and his secret subliminally directed his life trajectory. fear and lack of resources for reconciling his dichotomy led him to a conflicted state and caused him to seek rectification by imposing moral strictures upon himself that he believed would save him from his struggle : they didn't. he built his entire life on this secret, and it all came crashing down on his head, and that of those he loves and who love him. ah, the legacy of abuse.......

happily, clinical scientific process had done a lot of work in the field of sexuality over the years, and it was his capitalizing on that work that brought him the closure he needed after so many years, not some outdated belief in a set of "do's and don't's" that held out false hope for 'salvation'. it's good to see ted rising again, and to see that psychology, not religion, was the primary reconciling and restorative factor. it was religion that made his life an unbearable hell. but now he seems to have found his heaven thru therapeutic process.

i'm glad he came to realize and has found peace with his 'truth', and i'm glad he is no longer pushing the message that homosexuals are evil. thumbs up and down for both joy and ted, but two thumbs up for gayle for her commitment to stick thru it with ted.

warm regards,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#332979 - 06/05/10 10:03 AM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as child" [Re: Blurry]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I think he's Gay or Bisexual and is still suffereing from cognitive dissonance, maybe a little less now since he got caught but he's still sidestepping the issue of what his "sins" were.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#352200 - 01/28/11 01:12 PM Re: Disgraced pastor Haggard: "I was abused as chi [Re: pluckmemory]
Hailzes Offline


Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 25
Loc: 161
Is freaked.
What do you mean "got caught"?
Hope I'm misunderstanding this comment.


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