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#254304 - 10/10/08 11:11 PM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
thanks curtis that helps to create context for your original request. good luck with your initiative,

ron

_________________________
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  2. ReClaiming Now
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#254327 - 10/11/08 12:09 AM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
I am so shocked by the youtube vid that I can hardly breathe. Rehabilitate sex offenders??? Really? Isn't that an idea that has been tried before? And hasn't it been shown to be a startling failure? Has psychiatry not shown that sex offenders are incorrigable?

I've been at this recovery/reconstruction process for over twenty years now and I have compiled a mass of research studies from the most outlandish thearies to the very credible peer reviewed and accredited. One thing that is unanimous amongst these studies is that sex offenders of children are not capable of being rehabilitated!!! And, NO, there is no such thing here as a case by case basis. You take no chances!

I believe these men to be human beings on par with all of humanity and I know that what I'm about to say shocks many, but here goes - each sex offender, no matter how heinous his actions, is worthy of our compassion. No one just decides for the pure hell of it to become a monster. You are made, through life circumstances and your internalization of these, to turn out the way that you do.

Why was my seventeen year old rapist a homosexual paedophile? And why didn't I turn out just like him?

Yes these men are worthy of our compassion - but compassion is not an excuse for being a GD bleeding heart! Being a caring person does in no way make me a stupid person. Convicted sex offenders of children need to be incarcerated for perpetuity. That's how you make children safe from them - not by taking them off the streets for three hours on Halloween night! What about the other 364 nights in the year? Whose adressing that?

I' d better stop here before rant my way into a blackout




Edited by joelRT (10/11/08 06:37 AM)
_________________________
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My Story 2
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#254388 - 10/11/08 10:42 AM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: joelRT]
Curtis St. John Offline
Past President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 1796
Loc: Westchester, N.Y.
OK Joel, I hear you, and I used to think how they should all just be locked up. No state has the money or space to do that. That's not going to happen and most of them are going to be on the street whether we want them there or not. Running them out of town or harassing them doesn't work because they will just go somewhere where they can't get any help, they will go underground, and they will re-offend.

Remember, first and foremost I'm a survivor and there was a time when I thought all offenders should simply be incarcerated forever and they deserved no treatment. However I slowly began to understand that this is not the answer.

The bottom line is we don't want any more folks hurt, and if treating sex offenders keeps folks safe then it's worth it. It's not that I believe in treating them becuase I care about them, it's becuase I care about keeping people like my children safe.

At our last international conference one of the researchers described the need for offender treatment very well using polio as an example. He explained how doctors were not satisfied to treat victims of polio as they occurred, but that the research and treatment of the cause needed to be carried out in order to eliminate it completely at the source. If there is no research or work going into getting sex offenders not to offend then we will always be treating victims. Wouldn't it be better to treat offenders if it meant there were less victims?

Probation does not just send these guys home for the rest of the year, and for the 364 other days Probation is visiting their homes and they come in for small group.

I had the privilege of working with Dutchess County which received a grant from the Department of Justice in 2004 to study sex offender management from the top down, figure out the gaps, and close them. One of eleven counties in the nation to receive this grant, the Dutchess County Sex Offender Management Project involved over 200 people from every agency that had anything to do with sex offenders from beginning to end, from investigation, through incarceration and supervision upon release. All from a victim centered approach. I served on the Victim Advocate Consultant Committee and the Community Outreach Committee.

For the first time ever, departments all over the county started to collaborate on ways to improve sex offender management and soon judges were being trained, parole officers were speaking with probation officers, local community police departments too small to monitor offenders were getting the help they needed to keep track of offenders in their areas. Public defenders were working with prosecutors and victim service providers to find the best way to protect victims... Even sex offender treatment providers were involved to help everyone learn how they think.

And although my work was in Dutchess, I've learned enough about Westchester's work to know they too have their act together too.

In Dutchess there was an instance where one of the registered sex offenders was having urges but becuase he was comfortable working with his probation officer and becuase the officers on patrol were trained, he was comfortable enough to flag down a patrol car and explain he was a registered sex offender and he was having urges and needed help. The officer gave him a ride to the mental health unit where his therapist and probation officer were called in. No child was harmed. Should the officer have said, "sorry, can't help. You're on your own." and sent the guy away...

Part of our mission statement is about preventing and eliminating all forms of sexual abuse. That won't happen unless we work to stop sex offenders from offending. The offenders would love us if we got off their backs and stopped dogging them, then nobody would be watching and they can do what they want. I for one will not let that happen. I'm going to keep my kids as safe as I can.


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#254398 - 10/11/08 11:43 AM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Curtis,

First, thank you for taking on this daunting challenge. I know you will represent Male Survivor and all CSA victims with integrity and strength.

Second, thank you for posting this on the site. It seems that you've exposed one of the areas where I need much more work. After the thread here that had links to sites used by predators to communicate and share and your invitation for ideas on what to discuss with offenders, I've found myself a bit... speechless. (Okay guys, make all the jokes you want... LOL) Seriously. I can't imagine what I would say for fear of either boring them (I didn't give a damn about the child in the first place, why do you think I'd give a damn now...) or exciting them (yeah, I wanted the child to be compliant, silent and submissive, tell me more). I have no idea what you should say.

What ever you come up with, I think it would be interesting to the guys here to know. If you write a speech, PowerPoint, what ever, if it is something that someone other than yourself could read and understand, I think we might find it of interest here on the site.

Peace and love be with you Curtis, and thank you...

Michael


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#254400 - 10/11/08 11:56 AM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Utopia is alive and well and I couldn't be happier that your kids are going to be safe, Curtis, truly. However, ideas such as you propose won't make my kids any safer!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#254407 - 10/11/08 12:23 PM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
There is nothing in my vocabulary that could
change a perps behaviour, so I would keep my
mouth shut.

A leopard will never change it's spots!

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#254427 - 10/11/08 02:11 PM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: Curtis St. John]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
IF I EVER GET MY HANDS ON YOU, YOUR A DEAD MAN

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MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#254431 - 10/11/08 02:30 PM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: OKIE MIKE]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I'm with ron on this... I'd rather listen than speak
so I'd have questions rather than speeches or sermons

but I would definitely say "you are not a demon"
(contrary to some beliefs here)



_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#254438 - 10/11/08 02:55 PM . [Re: ineffable]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
.


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 06:28 PM)

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#254458 - 10/11/08 08:14 PM Re: What would you say to a sex offender? - trigge [Re: bardo213]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Tell them this. Tell them exactly what is inside the quotation marks so they can understand. I edited what I would tell mine for your audience's benefit.

"I was hurt as a 20 year old adult male. 8 years later, I still see his face, hear his taunts, feel his penetrations, et cetera.

He was not alone. You have convinced people that this problem really doesn't exist somehow. They tormented me too. Just because you were a professional or a upstanding member of the community, you used that to say that you couldn't possibly have done that. Then you got those people to defend you somehow through your lies.

If it was up to me, you would be swinging by the neck until you are dead. However, somewhere along the line you convinced people that you are worth a second chance. You need to make the most of the chance that you don't deserve in my eyes. I don't get that chance to relive my life. I am trapped in the torment that you created for me. I survive with tools that you know nothing about.

My goal in life is to take your power back. To deny you the freedom to control me anymore. You have done so for 8 years and I will get it back someday."

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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