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#258873 - 10/29/08 05:05 PM Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
I don't think it's any secret, I live in Utah and was raised by an extremely conservative, almost fundamentalist Mormon family. Since coming out (as a gay man) to my family, friends, and pretty much whoever about 8/9 years ago I have experienced the segregation and discrimination that "Zion" expresses not only toward gay men & women, but many other minorities as well. They do this in the name of "God." But thats a discussion all in and of itself.

Last night I was listening to NPR, and one of our local NPR programs "Radio West" was having a discussion regarding the Mormon involvement with California's Proposition 8. The Mormon church has contributed more than any other institution in America to fighting gay marriage in California (If I remember correctly over $8million). A while back they asked their membership to directly contribute as much money as each household could afford to independently contribute to the cause as well. I know this not only from the NPR program last night, but also from my own lovely family.

There were a couple of things that really troubled me last night in listening to this program, apart from the whole Prop 8 issue period. And I'd like to get input from others.

1-I am ashamed of the Mormon church for stepping into to political issue issue and contributing to it at this magnitude. The Mormon church as I see it (and I know it very well) is nothing more than a pyramid scheme that exploits it's membership. Now they are trying to control elements of government, not to mention destroy equal rights.

2-In the NPR discussion last night, the gentleman that was speaking said he'd have no problem with "gay" marriage if it was "innate." He went on to say that most gay men turned gay as a result of a homosexual experience as a child. I've been seeing more and more information that strongly suggests that homosexuality IS innate. Not to mention, I don't know a single gay man that woke up one morning and said.. "hmm, I think I'm going to start having sex with men so I can experience all the discrimination that goes along with it."

and 3 - So a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to my parents and asked them... "did you voluntarily and independently donate money to fight against gay marriage in California." They said "yes, as did two of your sisters and your brother." I don't know why, I was expecting that answer, but I felt betrayed. I guess I'm just wondering why it is that our country says "All men are created equal," when over and over again we prove that we are not. I most certainly do NOT want to marry at the moment, but I'd still like the right to, and the rights that go along with it.

Anyway, sorry to make this long. It's just some things that have been bugging me for some time. It'd be nice to hear what other people gay, bit, straight, and otherwise have to say about these issues.

Allen


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#258878 - 10/29/08 05:35 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: Roofus]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I'm guessing that my mother and any remaining members of her fundamentalist cult are also opposing Prop. 8 too. There just seems to be this wild fear by the fundamentalist crowd of the inclusion of everyone in the sanctity of the institution of marriage. Even my wife, who was raised Catholic but who isn't active in her faith, opposes gay marriage but does not oppose gay civil unions and the rights that would go along with such a legal standpoint. I have always tried to stick-up for the rights of everyone regardless of....and have always tried to act without prejudice in my thought.

I am not familiar with the specific language of CA Prop. 8, and would be one of the first to stand-up for anyone's rights as an American. How about trying for a law legalizing civil unions and protecting gay property, inheritance, and familial rights as a first step toward eventual normalacy. I realize that being denied the right to a marriage ceremony is discriminatory and hurtful. Unfortunately, we live in a democracy, and I'm guessing that the votes do not exist in many to most places to enact equal rights on this issue, despite Constitutional guarantees of equal protection under the law.

It isn't right, but this is just my take.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#258879 - 10/29/08 05:44 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: Roofus]
Niels Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 196
Gays can marry in California now? GEEZZZ haven't these people suffered enough????

_________________________
I live in my own little world - but that is OK! - They know me here.

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#258886 - 10/29/08 07:26 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: Niels]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
I'm not sure if its the same in the Mormon faith but the Catholic Church doesn't recognize marriages that are performed outside of the church (city hall, etc). So if this is true of the Mormon faith, then what do they care if gays are allowed to marry in California. They don't recognize the marriage anyway.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#259012 - 10/30/08 01:06 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: onlyakid]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Roofus,

I am a straight christian american man and i vote no on prop 8.
As Americans we are ALL guarantee certain rights under the constitution.
According to Webster's dictonary ALL- means "EVERYONE".
So if you are a American citizen what right does anyone have in trying to deny you what is yours by birth or choice.

I had to do some soul searching on this one but in the end I had to do what I felt was right.
Which is to stand up for the rights of ALL.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#259018 - 10/30/08 01:15 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: michael banks]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
Thanks for the input so far! I'm glad to see/hear your thoughts on this matter, as well as your support. I guess for me it's a touchy issue. Although I don't live in California, this issue has become very personal to me because I live in the heart of "Zion," I see and know how they work, and find it repulsive that they feel that they need to interfere in this manner.

It just makes me sick !


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#259073 - 10/30/08 05:04 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: Roofus]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I heartily agree with every thing said. I was raised as a Lutheran and do continue to profess my Faith and attend church on a regular basis. I consider myself a Christian and believe that God made all people and loves all people, including gays. I am who I am and I can't change that. (my family thinks differently) I have heard thru. the grapevine that most of my family think I'm going to Hell!

I am not familiar with CA Prop.8, but I would be the first one to vote NO.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#259177 - 10/31/08 11:30 AM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: KENKEN]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Marriage is a religious institution. If a church wants to marry a gay couple, and the state refuses to allow them to do so, that is a violation of the First Amendment, plain and simple.

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Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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#259564 - 11/01/08 08:16 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: melliferal]
Niels Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 196
Great-great-great grandson of Brigham Young - former 49er football player with jersey number 8 and his family is actively against prop. 8.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32216

Prop. 8 and the First Presidencys anti-gay political involvement have caused a lot of divisions among Latter Day Saints. Thank God many are standing up against them and the blood they have on their GARMENTS from spreading their disgusting anti-gay propaganda. President Monson of the Mormon Inc. is leading the church astray. A true sign of a false prophet.

_________________________
I live in my own little world - but that is OK! - They know me here.

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#259700 - 11/02/08 02:35 PM Re: Utah, Mormons, & Prop 8 [Re: Niels]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
This angst over gay marriage mystifies me.

Companionship is a innate human need.
Society is a costruct of innnate human need.
Humans exhibit a wide variety of sexual orientations.
Society exists to accommodate the needs of us all.

Marriage is not a religious institution. Religion is not the final arbiter of human need. Marriage is a human institution. One human being committing their life to another with the full support of us all. We are monkeys taking a mate and expecting the clan to respect the choice.

Religious hocus pocus need not complicate the fulfillment of that primal human need. If you are a religious person, than fine. Worship whatever or whomever you like in the privacy of your heart. But keep it out of our schools, keep it out of our legislatures, keep it out of our public policy. It's your decision to stop thinking in the name of religion; to abrogate your responsibility to use your rational mind. Don't impose it on those of us who choose to question, to insist on actions that support human fulfillment rather than contribute to human suffering and division.

C.

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C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

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