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#257278 - 10/23/08 08:19 PM Voting
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Hey Guys,

Sent in my abenstee ballot today.
I am a lifelong die-hard democrat and a 20 year teamster.
So you know who I vote for-- Obama of course.
I don't know about you but I am not better then I was 8 years ago.
At my work they are laiding-off people every month.
Good paying jobs are few and far between.
There are empty houses all over the place.
The republicans claim to believe in small government and conservative financial policy.
So why is it everytime they get into office that both grow larger.
Also the rich get richer and the rest of us get f--ked when they are in office.
5 years ago my company own everything out right (tractors-trailers)and now we are 1.5 billion in debt. In the last 5 years the CEO made over 45 million dollars.
This must be republican math when the boss drives the company into the ground but still gets rich.
Something is fundamentally wrong with the way the government has allowed Corp America to rob the country of jobs and money.

Are you voting,who,and why?
Just wondering if you care to share.

MIKE



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#257281 - 10/23/08 08:26 PM Re: Voting [Re: michael banks]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I wrote in Ron Paul for president, and voted Libertarian in all other offices, and voted no on every single ballot that involved more taxes.

Yeah, I wasted my vote for President, but I can't vote for a Fascist or a Socialist and still be able to look at myself in the mirror and not constantly feel like I need to take a shower.


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#257313 - 10/23/08 10:34 PM Re: Voting [Re: Hauser]
lungfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: nowhere special nj
Right on Hauser, I vote the same way. Ron Paul was the only guy talking any sense or had any feasible plan and basically the other republican candidates laughed at him. I can't vote for the lesser of two evils either.

_________________________
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson

Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like to be taught. -Sir Winston Churchill

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#257317 - 10/23/08 10:49 PM Re: Voting [Re: michael banks]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
mike, from hereon referred to as 'joe the truck driver', you are one brave soul bringing this up! heheheee

i decided in the primary's that i wanted barack to be our next leader.

since he became the democratic candidate, i have not wavered one iota in my desire. this man has aplomb, intelligence, acumen, and most of all heart.

i see no verity whatsoever in the republican candidate's vp choice, 'a sharp nail' [my anagram for sarah palin], nor in how the focus of how the mccain campaign changes on a dime in counterpoint to whatever it feels it can do to kick out the legs from under the democratic platform. all they seem to do is turn obama's comments into fodder for their next campaign ploy. mccain has no plan that i can see.

on the first wives: michele is poised and elegant; cindy is an overly made up barbie doll type [no disrespect intended] and definitely pales in comparison to the substance of former first lady contenders. i really hope they don't let her speak about the subject.

let's face it; a president does not run the country on his own; he does so with a panel of advisers; by the same token you do not marry a person, you marry their entire family.

sarah palin: don't get me started; she continually misses the point, speaks in run on sentences [just look at the tran>
_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#257355 - 10/24/08 03:08 AM Re: Voting [Re: Sans Logos]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Mark the truck driver is also an old-school Democrat from the old neighborhood. Reagan, Bush Sr, or Bush Jr, the Republicans have never seemed to care much while the little guy takes a tumble. It is all about getting rich while everyone else feeds off of their crumbs. Maybe it is time for a little trickle-up economics? Even though I'm a homeowner in a nice neighborhood I make way less than $250K so I'm playing for the Democrat's.

Go Barack!!!

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#257387 - 10/24/08 10:44 AM Re: Voting [Re: Trucker51]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Hahahaha Mark! You just voted for a Senator that voted for the Bailout? Is that right? hahahah I just want to hear you admit that you're for bailouts, lol.

On the subject of Democrats, I thought I might expound on that, with what I would consider the ideal Democrat, (I know your eyes are glazing over already but stay focused here with me!!!)

I thought I might give you a good example of a true Democrat that actually cared about the people of America. His name was Grover Cleveland. (March 18, 1837 – June 24, 1908 was both the twenty-second and twenty-fourth President of the United States. Cleveland is the only President to serve two non-consecutive terms (1885–1889 and 1893–1897) and thus is the only individual to be counted twice in the numbering of the presidents. He was the winner of the popular vote for President three times—in 1884, 1888, and 1892—and was the only Democrat elected to the Presidency in the era of Republican political domination that lasted from 1860 to 1912.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Cleveland

And now to the example of why I considered him such a fine statesman:

During one of his terms, the State of Texas had a terrible drought that had literally shattered the lives every farmer in that state. They were, in the period of one growing season, rendered destitute. There was an outcry from the people of that state for help, and their Representatives appealed to the Federal Government for help. They passed what was called the Texas Seed Bill, it was a mere $10,000 relief package to help the farmers that were in trouble, this was a paltry sum, even in those days when the dollar actually bought something. Anyway, President Cleveland VETOED this bill, STRICTLY ON CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE ALONE. He claimed (rightly) that there was NO Constitutional Authority granted for the Federal Government to be a welfare entity. Please read this excerpt of what he said in reference to his veto to this bill:

"I can find no warrant for such an appropriation [federal aid to drought-stricken Texas farmers] in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit...The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune...Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthen the bond of a common brotherhood." More here: http://mises.org/story/1129

Now, THIS is what I call true leadership. THIS is what I call respect for the Constitution. The slow but steady drift away from these guiding principles has given us what we have today, (corporatism, nanny-statism, government welfare, military-industrial welfare, farm subsidies, redistributionism, endless regulation, etc, etc, etc.)

Just thought I would throw this out there to give you I'm-voting-for-the-lesser-of-two-evils voters something to think about while you support this two-party dictatorship that we now have (and you're helping them).


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#257424 - 10/24/08 11:52 AM Re: Voting [Re: Hauser]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Perhaps that is why the Republicans always win in Texas, just as the total collapse since the late 1970s of the Great Lakes area manufacturing economy is a rallying cry for Democrats. And as some didn't know either, regions dependant on the fortunes of our defense industries took just a bit of a hit under Bill Clinton too.

And yes, I do favor a bailout for us little guys too. How about 10% of the average home value on a regional basis to every homeowner and 20% of the average yearly rent on a regional basis to every adult renter? The average home price here in the Denver area is $250K so I would receive $25K, and the average monthly rent here is almost $900/month, so you would receive over $2000. This would bailout many homeowners who have been the victims of the failures of our system of regulation and finance, and help stabilize home prices. And in your case it would at the very least help our economy, and if higher-risk funding stabilized also, it would help major purchasers of both cars and homes, helping both of those industries too. In the case of a renting couple, $4000 would be a 5% down-payment on a $200K house, for instance.

So yes, I am a Democrat who favors the rehabilitation of our industrial base, and the income security of our middle class and working people. And a bailout like I suggested would have done even more for us than $1.2 Trllion to bailout rich people who made many of the mistakes in the first place.

That said, how about lunch or dinner?

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#257434 - 10/24/08 12:18 PM Re: Voting [Re: Trucker51]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: Trucker51
That said, how about lunch or dinner?


only if you buy, it's not in the budget these daze

shocked

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#257435 - 10/24/08 12:18 PM Re: Voting [Re: Trucker51]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Lol..............you're an immovable object I see. lol

Mark? I would just ask you to see a seemingly unobserved factor in your thinking. They're NOT interested in helping YOU, or ME, they're interested in helping those with the most political influence, such as (surprise!!!) big business, big campaign donors, special interests, etc., are you in one of these groups by chance? Ahhhh well, I tried, lol. I GIVE UP. I tried to help you, lol.

Wait! One last try!

What about the IMMORALITY of taking money from the innocent to help those that made poor choices? What about the fact that we don't HAVE any money to bailout WITH? In order to bailout anyone, you need SAVINGS, of which we have NONE. All we can do is borrow more money from the Chines, Japs, and Arabs, or PRINT more money, thereby devaluing the currency even more? What about asking the poor to bail out the rich? I don't follow your thinking........? You so lost me dude! lol

About dinner...........http://www.texasdebrazil.com/ ? I'm gonna bring a dead grasshopper and put it in my salad, show the waiter, and tell him that I'm not paying for ANYTHING! lol



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#257437 - 10/24/08 12:23 PM Re: Voting [Re: Trucker51]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
I'm sorry guys... I had posted my comments earlier and suddenly felt very vulnerable. I had to change my post to feel more safe.

I went to the voting booth early... I voted today for Obama.



Edited by Roofus (10/24/08 08:21 PM)

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#257751 - 10/25/08 11:04 AM Re: Voting [Re: Roofus]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Hi Roofus. I want you to know that I found absolutely nothing wrong or invalid with that post you deleted. Just wanted to tell you that.


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#257767 - 10/25/08 12:16 PM Re: Voting [Re: Hauser]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
Thanks, appreciate that. I guess I just didn't want to experience backlash from persons with extremely differing viewpoints. I don't do well with criticism. wink


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#257794 - 10/25/08 02:23 PM Re: Voting [Re: Roofus]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Respectful disagreement is part of the human condition. We all come from different backgrounds, experiences, and situations, hence, none of us are impartial to what we want from our elected officials. However, I'm happy to say that you will notice that even though Trucker51 and I disagree on where to cast our votes, he and I are still friends, hell, we just went out for dinner last night, but this is in no way divisive in our friendship.

A thing to keep in mind when we get all defensive and jumpy when discussing politics; Government is force, it is the threat or use of force to impose one group's will, upon another group. And that this is done because it seemingly can't be done through cooperation, persuasion, or other peaceful means. So............
in other words, if our difference of opinion was merely that you preferred red-colored cars as opposed to my preference of blue-colored cars, why would I get upset about it? But when we have a difference of opinion about how I should live my life, spend my money, who I can hire, who I can fire, who I can marry, what I can buy, what I can put in my body, etc, etc, etc, THEN the opinions start to actually have a direct effect on the other's life, AND THAT is why politics can be a touchy/sensitive subject. Just thought I would try to put this in perspective....


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#257811 - 10/25/08 03:09 PM Re: Voting [Re: Roofus]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Hauser,

Facist or socialist.
I was talking about the U.S. elections.

That's alot of the problems with our political sitations these days is that we would rather call each other names and try to pigeon hole the other. Rather then look for solutions to our common problems.Until we try to find some common ground to work from we will never address what is really important.

NO vote is ever wasted if it is casted.

MIKE

Ps- I thought that Denver was in the U.S. not the Soviet Union?
The US has not used force against it's own citizens since it invade and conqueored the south in the Civil War.

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#257821 - 10/25/08 03:48 PM Re: Voting [Re: Hauser]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
Thanks Hauser,

I appreciate your words, and am very proud of my vote. I suppose I've just been feeling rather vulnerable recently because of some things that have happened. I've purposefully stayed very quiet in here since becoming a member... since I started coming period. Sometimes I feel like its just best to keep my mouth shut so that I don't end up exposing myself and getting hurt. It's been eggshells around here lately ya' know.

Anyway... thanks so much, I completely agree with you. Will try to let my voice be heard a little more loudly.


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