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#256747 - 10/21/08 07:14 PM reinstatement
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Guys,

Early this past summer I was talking to a user named Chris who had been posting under the handle "rehpotsirhcs". When the moment seemed right I told him that I was concerned about his use of the site. I was convinced that he was 19, not 16 as he had told everyone, and I felt that many of the details he had told us about himself were false. I advised him that it was time for the truth and I asked for his response to my concerns.

Chris immediately admitted that I was right and that many of the things he had been saying about himself were not true, or were true in a sense other than what he had indicated to us. I told him that he was suspended effective immediately and that his return to the site would depend on a review of his case by the ModTeam and discussions with his therapist. We also needed for him to demonstrate that he could conduct himself in a safe and responsible manner on the site before any return could be contemplated.

In the months since then I have worked intensively with Chris on these questions and have also had detailed consultations with his therapist, who has confirmed to us the details you will see in Chris' post below. He has dealt with a host of very difficult abuse issues and has done so with courage and integrity. After discussions with his therapist the ModTeam has decided he is ready to rejoin the MaleSurvivor community. We will be working with him in a step-by-step process in which we expect him to follow through on the undertakings he has made to us.

We all know that recovery from CSA is a rough and challenging process in which many of us have made mistakes - big ones - that we later regret. Chris has made his share of such mistakes on this site and elsewhere and has shown poor judgment. But he has faced these mistakes and taken responsibility for them, and now he is prepared to do better. This is what recovery is about: facing old broken ways, asking how they have hurt us and others, taking responsibility for them, and then letting go of them and moving on to become the men we were always meant to be.

I told Chris from the beginning that taking responsibility would include hearing how his actions have hurt others. His post below is his comment on his return and you are welcome to comment if you wish. Whatever you need to say he needs to hear.

All the usual rules of our community apply, of course. This is not a roast, but a growth opportunity for Chris. Please comment in that spirit and bear in mind that this is not about other parties, whose cases are separate private matters and should not be raised in this context.

Thanks in advance for your consideration of these remarks. This is the first time we adopt this approach and perhaps we all have something to learn here about recovery, redemption and forgiveness.

Larry, aka roadrunner
ModTeam Coordinator

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#256748 - 10/21/08 07:14 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: roadrunner]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
Dear users of MaleSurvivor,

I have made a grave mistake. Last year I created the screen name, "rehpotsirhcs" (christopher spelled backwards). Under this screen name, I falsely assumed the identity of a 16-year-old in an active abuse situation. And, for several months I came to this site to chat and post in the forums under this identity. The longer I continued under this character, the more the lies escalated (as lies often do). But while I was active on this site, I received support and generosity from almost everyone I talked with. For this, I am deeply sorry for betraying your trust and I feel I owe you the truth of what happened.

My name really is Chris. I'm a 19-year-old college student and I am an abuse survivor. I was abused at the age of six by two men in the neighborhood. I originally came to the site as "puzzlepieces" a couple years ago. I was 17 years old at the time and just beginning to deal with my abuse issues. My therapist suggested doing some background research on sexual abuse, so I googled around and found this website. I made a few posts here but I did not become active on the site. And, for one reason or another, I left the site completely.

I was living with my step-dad. My mother was not in the picture, because she had abandoned us a few years before. Dad had been diagnosed with prostate cancer about a decade before I met him when I was six. The doctors did not successfully remove all of the cancer when they took out his prostate, and so the cancer spread. Yet, he lived almost completely symptom free for years.

Around October of last year, Dad's health declined rapidly. The cancer had spread to his neck and the lower part of his spine. He was slowly becoming paralyzed and he was in constant pain. We had no support from friends or family members, so I was trying to take care of Dad by myself.

I came back to MaleSurvivor around this time. I wanted people to support me while I was dealing with taking care of my dying father, but I did not feel that people would support the real me. I felt worthless and bad for lots of reasons. So, I made up a false identity. I just did not want to be me anymore. I wanted to be someone whose Dad wasnít dying. Through this identity, I gained lots of support and I was known through this community. It became a safe haven from all that I had been dealing in my real life.

I feel horrible about all the support I got for an identity that didnít exist. I want to say that in many ways I was using it to talk about things that really were bothering me, but I donít say that as an excuse. I lied to you. Thatís the important thing and I take responsibility for that.

The ModTeam became aware of my situation and Larry (roadrunner) confronted me about the two identities. I was relieved to be honest with Larry. I had wanted to tell the truth for a while, but hadn't been able to get it out.

My therapist has confirmed my true identity and we have worked (and we still are) on why I created the false identity. We have also talked about other things that happened, and Larry has spoken to my therapist about everything.

I want to be clear that I'm not offering anything I have said as an excuse for my behavior. I betrayed your trust by creating a false identity and I accept full responsibility for this. You deserved to know the truth of what happened.

The ModTeam is allowing me to come back in steps and I have to prove myself at every step. They have asked me to make an entirely new start and open a different account, and for this one I decided on the name Loberhead. I donít know what it means, but my Dad used to call me that and it made me feel good about being me when he did that. I know thatís one of the many things I have to work on.

I want to do this and I know I can be responsible and honest in the future. I have learned a hard lesson. I feel like there are many guys who will be angry, and I don't blame anyone who is. I just hope that, in time, you can forgive me and accept me as I really am, but I understand if you find that difficult. I know I have to earn your trust back.


-Chris


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#256770 - 10/21/08 07:57 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Dont know what to say. I hope you find what you need in life without using anymore people for your own goals. Good luck.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#256772 - 10/21/08 07:59 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Quťbec, Canada
Loberhead,

I was not around MS at the time you talk about, however, it takes a big man to publicly apoplogize and take responsability for his actions.

Larry is right in saying that the road to recovery is fraught with mistakes and poor judgement and we each of us walks his own individual path. I feel that you got here in the only way that you could. For me that's good enough. You're here, that's what counts.

You have all of my admiration and you are proof that for as much as sucks at times, therapy works!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#256775 - 10/21/08 08:01 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
.



Edited by Barkabus (10/27/08 12:32 AM)

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#256781 - 10/21/08 08:13 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Christopher spelled backwards:

Given your age, the level of stress that you were under, and the fact that many younger survivors create and live falsehoods in order to survive, I for one am not willing to hold what you did against you. Certainly it is better for all of us to know the truth and for you to dispense with your false character in the manner that you have. I hope that we can all move forward together in a positive manner knowing that you have progressed enough to move towards resolution, responsibility, truthfulness, and trust.

Welcome back, Chris,

Mark



Edited by Trucker51 (10/21/08 08:17 PM)
Edit Reason: One missing word
_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#256784 - 10/21/08 08:29 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Well. I am some lost of what to say. And I sense what I feel most to say would result in being ban from here. Let me see how good I can speak it.

I do think it take much courage to be honest now. I think it would taken more courage to been honest from beginning, which is what most persons here succeed to do. Although I did not have much contact with your other account here, and it should thus, not affect me so much that there is been this deception, it does. Because it affect the integrity of the entire site, and the level of trust and faith. And yes, if I allow it to affect me as that, it is my own issue, and that is fine. I admit it. And I will also admit that I generally do not believe most the teens who show up here now, after time and time and time again of lies and frauds presenting themselves as children. For those here who are genuine, my apologies. But it is just, I reached my limit on it. I am glad that there is persons here not so cynical in that respect, that those who arrive here needing help have someone that believe in them and will help them. It just can not be me.

And now, for the part I am reluctant to say.

Since I have been a member here, this site has always had the concept of what is good for the majority of the site over what is good for only one individual. Perhaps this 'experiment' and change would be helpful for this individual. But how does it impact the rest of this on this site? It seems it sets precedent, of 'oh look, you can flagrently break the rules here, cause bad emotions and fraud people, but if you are appearing sincere enough in your regret, we will allow you back, the hell with what other people think'. That is how it look to me. As I say, I have been a member here long time, and this is the first that such a decision is been made. What I would have wished is that members of this site had had a 'say' in it, and a more active role in this decision to change the long standing standards. I think that if the situation had been presented to the community, and it was said to us 'hey guys, we are considering letting this person come back, under strict rules, what do you all think?', I believe the majority would have chosen to allow Chris back, and we could have felt better about this decision, rather then it being put to us as a 'done deal, like it or not'. Especially when it seems other members remain banned for less offenses.

There. That is my thoughts of it, for what little they are worth here.

Andrei


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#256786 - 10/21/08 08:35 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Apology accepted Chris. I am here if you need input/support.

Whatever became of your Dad?


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#256790 - 10/21/08 08:48 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Hauser]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: Hauser
Whatever became of your Dad?


Alan,

My Dad died in March.


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#256802 - 10/21/08 09:07 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Im with AK. I guess rules and punishment are for nought now if youre "sorry." Sorry to sound mean but some of my good friends were booted and not given even an option to return, but this is special? How?

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#256811 - 10/21/08 09:33 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
Dear Chris & other members of MS,

Although I have been a member of MS for a while, I was not a direct participant of any of the incidences that occurred as a result of Chris's actions.

This thread should and must be approached very cautiously. I would like to encourage each of you that have strong emotions regarding this issue to choose your words wisely before you hit that send button. While your message should be heard, it should also be a message that you are truly prepared to deliver. In my profession, I always encourage people to let an email sit for 24 hours before they hit send if it is in regards to something so emotional. I would encourage the same of you.

On a different note, and on the other side of the coin. As members of MS, we all have something in common. I don't need to say it, you know what it is. We have all learned to cope with this in different ways. Some through anger, some through hiding, and some through saying yes when we mean to say no. We're not always the most functional group of guys.

Many of you that have been directly hurt by Chris may be inclined to soften your hearts and let bygones be bygones, simply stating that you forgive him. Yes... forgive him... please forgive him. However, I also feel that Chris needs to know how many people he has directly hurt. You may be kind in your response to Chris, but if he has hurt you I think he needs to hear from you "YOU HURT ME."

You might even just place in the header, but he needs to hear and see how many people he has hurt.

I think back on the persons that hurt me. I am not out for vengeance, and I consider myself a forgiving person. However if I were to face them today, the one thing I would say to each of them is YOU HURT ME.

I'm not saying Chris is the equivalent to a perp. Don't get me wrong. But what I am saying is that he needs to be a part of the healing process, your healing process. And to do that, he really does need to know who he has hurt. Please don't sugarcoat your responses to him. If he hurt you... let him know. nicely .

Remember... forgiveness does not mean... forgetting. While I believe that Chris should be welcomed back, I believe that he should also participate in the healing process of those he has wounded.

For those of you he has wounded... for gods sake... let him heal that wound.

Sincerely ... me... the quiet guy in the corner.


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#256822 - 10/21/08 09:51 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Welcome back Chris!

It really takes a lot to come back and admit this to everyone and take responsibility for your actions. I know lots of people are worried about trust issues and about exceptions to the rule, so i know how much it must take to step up to the mark. I wasn't blown away by the news when i heard, i understand your position and how hard this is for you, but that is not to minimise other peoples hurt.

I can understand the position you were in and why you decided to take on the age of a 16 year old instead of the 19 year old that you are, in an effort to gain the support that you so desperately needed. People are now understandably hurt by your betrayal, and the help they gave to your false identity. But like you said you were talking about things that really were bothering you, so although the identity of rehpotsirhcs was false, this is not comparable to a case of somebody who comes here and pretends to be a survivor who is not, this is a completely different kind of situation, so i don't think that the idea of this reinstatement being an exception to the rule is true.

I hope that this works out, and that you can make some of the old friends that you had here, you know i'm still your friend always, and i'm glad to have you back here. Using your real identity you can now make real progress, and over time as other people accept you as who you really are you can see that you never needed to pretend to be somebody else, because you are great just as you. People make mistakes, and i understand that.

your friend,
Lewis

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#256829 - 10/21/08 09:55 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: king tut]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
As I said in my previous post, you hurt someone else here DEEPLY & I still feel his loss
I will be maintaining my respectful distance albeit more consciously

C

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#256832 - 10/21/08 09:57 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
xopher,

for reasons locked inside you, you chose to act as you did. you realize how foolish and unnecessary that tactic was. you have come clean. you have asked for forgiveness and another chance.

70 x 7

it's yours.

may you be freed from the chains that bound you to lie and deceive. you deserve much more than that. i pray that freedom swiftly finds you.

have a life, good brother; one you were made for and richly deserve,

be well and go with god

---------------
(((((((( xopher )))))))))

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#256838 - 10/21/08 10:03 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: king tut]
arronb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
Chris

I hope this is a return to normalcy here at MS ... and all people caught up in this mess are given the same opportunities as you are now being given.

I believe that everyone deserves a second chance, we all make mistakes and have things in our past that we wish we never did...

... some of my friends here have been hurt by this incident, lots of people suffered & are still suffering, directly and indirectly...

I hope no one suffers now because of the emotions your return evokes.

_________________________
Keep Smilin'
arronb

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#256842 - 10/21/08 10:09 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Chris/Loberhead-
Well.
I certainly am not feeling particularly good right now, since i was one of the people who spent a fair amount of time chatting with, and worrying about, you. I just went back and reviewed some PMs i had sent mods concerning you... even while i was very worried about the situation you presented yourself to be in, my "spider-sense" was tingling a bit, too. I'm saddened and disappointed by what you did, and the worst part of it is thinking that i'm going to have a much harder time trusting that any younger poster/chatter asking for help, or a sympathetic ear, is who they say they are.
The last thing i'll say about your previous persona is this, a quote from a PM i'd sent regarding you:

...if chris isn't real? Hey, at least we all showed how much we care for others that are real.

And today? Sadly, i can't honestly say that i can trust you. I'd like to, and sincerely hope you're being honest now, but for right now, all i can think is, "What if he's just lying again?" Sorry you felt the need to do what you did, but i'm not sorry at all for trying to help the person you pretended to be. I'm glad you came forward, admitted what you did, and apologized- i forgive you for lying to me, but do not expect me to be able to trust you; i hope you make real use of MS this time, i wouldn't ever say you don't belong here- but please don't PM me, and know that if i see you in chat, i will immediately go to another room. Sorry it had to end up this way, but i need to do what i need to to feel safe here. Good luck, i hope you learned something about yourself that helps.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#256852 - 10/21/08 10:33 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: dgoods]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
I think it is worth remembering that rehpotsirhcs wasn't some completely fake character, this was really Chris looking for help, but probably feeling that as himself (with all the feelings as a survivor he may have had about himself) that he would not be able to get the help that he was looking for (i'm sure lots of people can relate to the idea of not feeling like you deserve help- or afraid that if you ask for help you will not get it- i think "rehpotsirhcs" in that way was a safety blanket for Chris, unfortunately at the detriment of others- that's how i see it anyway).

Also with the situation that he was in, looking after his father on his own, MS was his lifeline in a very real way, and for the same reasons that we come here, to look for help. Lying about his identity, of course that is a really bad thing to do, especially here where trust and betrayal are HUGE things, but i think Chris deserves a chance. Didn't you ever make any big mistakes when you were young? for all of the older people out there you have a lifetime worth of experiences to draw upon to help you with your decisions, so when your young and desperately in need of help, it is easy to make mistakes. That being said, of course everybody has the right to their own feelings on the matter.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#256858 - 10/21/08 11:09 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: king tut]
Niels Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 196
No way.

_________________________
I live in my own little world - but that is OK! - They know me here.

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#256865 - 10/21/08 11:35 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: king tut]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Originally Posted By: king tut
I think it is worth remembering that rehpotsirhcs wasn't some completely fake character, this was really Chris looking for help, but probably feeling that as himself (with all the feelings as a survivor he may have had about himself) that he would not be able to get the help that he was looking for (i'm sure lots of people can relate to the idea of not feeling like you deserve help- or afraid that if you ask for help you will not get it- i think "rehpotsirhcs" in that way was a safety blanket for Chris, unfortunately at the detriment of others- that's how i see it anyway).


I am sure all of the other frauds we have had here. presenting themselves as younger, could make the same argument for themselves.

95% of us are here because of fucked up childhood. And about the same percent manage to come here presenting ourself honestly. If someone really was abused and living in difficult circumstances, that excuses the rules they break to get help? Chris himself said it wasn't an excuse for his behavior. I suggest we be careful when making excuses for him, since he himself has shown that is not what he wants.

And yes, we all do have the right to our opinions and decisions on how we will respond to this 'reinstatement'.

Andrei


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#256868 - 10/21/08 11:52 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ak
Originally Posted By: king tut
I think it is worth remembering that rehpotsirhcs wasn't some completely fake character, this was really Chris looking for help, but probably feeling that as himself (with all the feelings as a survivor he may have had about himself) that he would not be able to get the help that he was looking for (i'm sure lots of people can relate to the idea of not feeling like you deserve help- or afraid that if you ask for help you will not get it- i think "rehpotsirhcs" in that way was a safety blanket for Chris, unfortunately at the detriment of others- that's how i see it anyway).


I am sure all of the other frauds we have had here. presenting themselves as younger, could make the same argument for themselves.

95% of us are here because of fucked up childhood. And about the same percent manage to come here presenting ourself honestly. If someone really was abused and living in difficult circumstances, that excuses the rules they break to get help? Chris himself said it wasn't an excuse for his behavior. I suggest we be careful when making excuses for him, since he himself has shown that is not what he wants.

And yes, we all do have the right to our opinions and decisions on how we will respond to this 'reinstatement'.

Andrei


No i wasnt saying it is an excuse, and like you said chris doesnt say it is an excuse either, i was just saying that this is, in part, how i personally see it, so no i'm not going to be "careful" about making excuses, because that's not what i'm doing, and like we seem to agree, we all have the right to our own feelings on this

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#256870 - 10/21/08 11:55 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I must have made 100 wrong turns on the way here and slapped many people's faces more than twice. It took me lots of lost chances to find my way here. And it took the forgiveness and the caring support of lots of people to get where I'm at. So I am one of these people to overlook and forgive minor transgressions.

You guys know something? If this situation works out for the best it might make a better case for other's redemption. There isn't any way that Chris has a chance if we can't give him another chance. So what will it be: Kill Chris's chance and most likely everyone else's chance in hurt and anger, or do we try to work beyond our feelings in the hope that others may yet live?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Though I am not a big believer in this author's work it is a good point in this case. So do we give him another chance or not?

I say that we turn the other cheek,

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#256875 - 10/22/08 12:25 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Trucker51]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Chris,

I am in favor of totally forgiving and reinstating you. We have all made mistakes. I have at times misrepresented myself. It's something built into our nature. When we hurt within and shrink with shame, we all have found cause to play hide and seek occasionaly.


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#256881 - 10/22/08 12:50 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Trucker51]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Read this earlier and it made me ill but now had to come back to say my piece. I guess I'm too much of HardAss on people....

This kind of stuff hurts because it's things like this that make it even harder for someone like me who really need some support for the things they are going through now. I don't understand how anybody could think that a story of what you're saying now wouldn't gain support on it's own without the lies.

I generally don't mesh with too many guys around my age and younger, so I'm kind of glad I kept my distance. You making up stuff makes the things I've tried to say about me sound false. I know it's hard enough for anyone to get what I say about my abuse then and now, this makes it that much harder on me. I'm already stuck feeling so misunderstood all the time and now here's the birth to even more second guessing on if I'm making crap up because of what you and others have done.

There's no such thing as online DID, I can't take away how premeditated this all was and then for you to come forward AFTER being caught... don't mean anything good to me. The term "mistake" is more and more becoming a meaningless word to me. I don't see where guys see courage in this, so far this has me in a world of extra hurt.

There's nothing I can applaud about your actions, we all have a lot to go through.... honesty should be enough here. This is coming from someone who's had his therapist and friends contacted at one point by moderator/board members on the site for legitimate reasons. I just feel used by you... and I didn't even have that much direct contact with you.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#256882 - 10/22/08 12:58 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: pufferfish]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
I wasn't going to respond... but I will...

Chris,

Even after the whole "situation" went down, I chatted with you. Knowing full well what the situation was, but I didn't hold anything against you. I did what I could even during that time to support you because I knew of others that were already angry and were writing you off.....

I came to MS, and quickly became trusting and opened myself and poured myself into recovery. The fallout of that "situation"? It completely derailed any/all progress for months and destroyed my ability to even trust those that I had felt were close friends here. People I had felt closer to than anyone else in my life.

Just last weekend I attended a Weekend of Recovery. I walked away from that with so much more than I could have possibly imagined!! I feel fantastic and confident and safe for the first time in my entire life.... then I come here tonight.....

You know what? Here's what I have written on a piece of yellow construction paper, courtesy of Howard: "I will hold on to connectedness and refuse to let anyone take my valid feelings away." I decided that no one is going to take away what I've gained. No one is going to push me back to that place that I was in. I connected to people this past weekend in ways that I never imagined possible. I felt safe and cared for and loved in a room filled with 27 other men and 7 facilitators. I tear up just thinking about it! It was a wonderful experience.

Yes Chris, your actions hurt me very deeply, but not just your actions, but the actions of the other as well. I was violated by someone I had chatted with and supported, and violated by someone I had trusted. I forgave the other, so would it be right or fair for me to refuse that to you? Not at all.

So please believe me when I say that I truly hope that you can find safety and support here. I hope that you can find the wonderful and fantastic things that I received last weekend.

I will not push you away, I will not ignore you, I will not hold anything against you. I forgive you, and I'll be doing some journaling tonight in order to sort out all the feelings I'm having right now and so that I can process and deal with the feelings that are trying to pull me back into old habits of isolation.

Heal the best you can my young friend.


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#256884 - 10/22/08 01:13 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: roadrunner]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
x, i just want to add, that i hope that when you enter chat and the forums, you do so with head held high, not downcast.none of us are perfect, and each one of us deserves at least one 'get out of jail free' card.

what a wonderful life you have ahead of you my young friend!!! staying honest will ensure it!

your brother in recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#256890 - 10/22/08 01:35 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Sans Logos]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Hey Chris I want you to know that I understand the reasons why you did what you did. I am glad to see you back, I believe you are now trying to be honest. I don't think poorly of you for what you did.

I think its important for us to remember the reasons we are here at MS. I came here to work on my recovery. This is the internet and we need to realize that there is a certain amount of risk when using a site like this. However I feel like the benefits of this site are worth the risk of coming across some one who is not honest with us.

Chris I wish you luck on your return to Male Survivor. If you would like to talk feel free to message me.

,Chris


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#256900 - 10/22/08 02:33 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: theatrekid]
frost Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
Re-pot,

I need to say some words to how this has affected me. I didn't really ever speak directly with you much. I have been deeply affected by this somewhat indirectly.

I can't help but think your lies, deceit and actions resulted in my losing one of my closest MS friends. However, I'm smart enough to know that I lost that close friend because of the actions of my close friend.

I always said that you were both 100% to blame, but my friend was responsible. Now I see that you were both 100% to blame, and both 100% responsible.

This disclosure is just vomit icing on the shit-cake that was baked in May and June. It always was a horrendous scenario no matter how you cut it.

Ugly.
~Brian

_________________________
Boom!

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#256912 - 10/22/08 06:56 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: frost]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
Hey Chris, it's good to see you back. I'm sorry that you felt you had to lie about your age.

I guess I don't really know what to say. Welcome back, but please, no more lies.


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#256915 - 10/22/08 07:30 AM . [Re: Nyjah]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
.


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#256918 - 10/22/08 07:40 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Paul1959]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I lost one of my best friends on here because of your lie and one of the few I trust. So forgive me if I am angry. [sarcasm] But Im sure glad YOU feel better and more relieved. [/sarcasm] I thought all "kids" were verified pre-post?

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#256933 - 10/22/08 09:03 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Chris,

One of my guiding principles in recovery has been "honor". I think it is important to be honorable to both yourself AND others. Lying was not accomplishing this. I can't comprehend how you felt that misrepresenting yourself in a place where trust is a difficult thing would further your recovery and that of everyone you in/directly interacted with. At 19 years old, I was responsible for over $3 billion dollars worth of equipment and indirectly responsible for 135 lives. To hide behind the excuse "I couldn't take it" is the abandonment of who you really are and the minimization of my experiences at that age.

This "misepresentation" deal has been an issue that I have been involved in once before. Everytime a teenager, or potential teenageer, is caught in a lie; that lie diminishes the larger community's ability and efforts to help the youngest among us. Your actions reflect not only on yourself, but that small community.

I see people I deeply respect on both sides of whether to forgive you or not. As for me, the jury's still out. Your future conduct will determine whether the ModTeam has acted with wisdom or whether they were deceived once again. Hopefully the ModTeam will review other cases in this new light of "forgiveness" and realize that, quite possibly, errors were made.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#256942 - 10/22/08 09:34 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
The whole issue of someone on MS pretending to be someone they are not is deeply disturbing to me. It is not the issue of saying you are 16 when you are in fact 19 that is of great concern, but the other things that happened that affected many of the our fellow members. If this were just a casual chat room where people came for entertainment purposes, I could be more understanding and sympathetic to your situation. However, many people in spite of the fact that this is the internet, consider this a sacred space and one that we can TRUST. When that trust is violated, the integrity of the site is damaged.

I know the issue of members misrepresenting themselves has deeply affected many members and has made them feel unsafe to the point where they were set back in their recovery and even considered or left the site. This obviously is very troublesome and defeats the purpose of the MS site.

In my opinion, while I realize that we all have faults and none of us are perfect, this behavior really can't be tolerated. It reminds of the time when my brother completed rehab and was living in a halfway house and his actions/behavior were not supportive of the other residents recovery. Even though he was a nice guy and was sorry and acknowledged his mistakes, he was asked to leave. It was for the good of the other residents who were deep into their recovery. They needed a safe and supportive environment in order to move forward in their lives. I think the same holds true here.



Edited by DanM (10/22/08 09:38 AM)

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#256944 - 10/22/08 09:54 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: pufferfish]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
[edited by ModTeam to remove issue with another user that is not the focus of this thread.]

I see so many who have been hurt by this fake and how we are just supposed to open up our hearts and forgive Chris.

[edited by ModTeam to remove discussion of moderator and administrative actions, which is against the Discussion Board Guidelines.]
Tom



Edited by ModTeam (10/22/08 07:34 PM)
_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#256946 - 10/22/08 10:10 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Muldoon]
conflicted Offline


Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 45
Loc: Greenville, SC
Wow... this is so close to home. I was banned from MS as well, and my reinstatement was like climbing the Empire State Building with my hands tied and my eyes blindfolded. But, mercy was meted out to me, and so I believe should be to Chris as well.

[edited by ModTeam to remove discussion of moderator and administrative actions, which is against the Discussion Board Guidelines.]






Edited by ModTeam (10/22/08 07:35 PM)
_________________________
Masquerades are a lot of fun, until you see it is really your life.


my story...finally out *triggers*

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#256948 - 10/22/08 10:27 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: conflicted]
JBells Offline


Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Juneau
This is all so serious. Maybe I shouldn't say anything about it because Im new and I wasn't here and it doesn't really effect me but personally I don't judge anyone based on anyones actions, I've screwed up and been forgiven hundreds of times thankgod. But then again, if I had the balls to to make up an identity other than me you could bet your you know what it would not be an abused teenager. Been there done that. It would be more like a 20 something year old rock star with millions in the bank, nice cars, a big happy following, a big happy family and not a trouble in the world. I can understand wanting attention but maybe not in this way. But I'm not in your shoes so maybe you can't help it. Either way, glad you are getting help. The whole thing about trust is if you don't trust anyone to begin with then it just doesn't matter and if you never learned how to trust in the first place than how do you know how to earn trust from anyone?


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#256950 - 10/22/08 10:39 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: JBells]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
I don't have much to say right now. I guess this makes me better understand how I made people who care about me feel when I lied to them. I guess this is one thread I will read completely. Then I may be able to talk more about it.

Keith aka Richard (ok then. I guess I have two also wtf)


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#256961 - 10/22/08 11:59 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: KeithR]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah

"We attach our feelings to the moment when we were hurt, endowing it with immortality. And we let it assault us every time it comes to mind. It travels with us, sleeps with us, hovers over us while we make love, and broods over us while we die. Our hate does not even have the decency to die when those we hate die--for it is a parasite sucking OUR blood, not theirs. There is only one remedy for it. [forgiveness]






Edited by Roofus (10/23/08 11:19 AM)

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#256978 - 10/22/08 01:03 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Roofus]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
I am so pissed about how this has effected others


Tom



Edited by Muldoon (10/22/08 01:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Speaking from anger
_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#256979 - 10/22/08 01:07 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Roofus]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.


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#256987 - 10/22/08 01:46 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Muldoon]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
tom, i am very sorry that you are upset. it hurts to see you this way. you are such an inspiration to each of us here. i hope this mellows out for you sooner rather than later.

your brother in recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#257019 - 10/22/08 05:13 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Sans Logos]
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Christopher,

I "talked" with you a few times in the chatroom. I trusted you to be telling me the truth. I have been duped before, and I must say I am tired of being made to feel guilty if I don't follow along and forgive and forget. Perhaps I could forgive more easily if I wasn't aware of all the frauds that have broken down my trust. When are the other guys involved in this episode going to be allowed back in? What is fair for you is fair for them, too.

This is for the Mods. How many times am I expected to come to MS, trust the people here, have that trust broken, and then forgive and trust again? For me, and most of the guys here, trust is a major issue we deal with due to our sexual abuse. I for one have no intention of trusting another soul here. I am stupid, it takes me a few times being burned before I learn my lesson, but I eventually do learn.

Go ahead, remove the suspense....when do So_Cal_Marc and Shadowkid get reinstated?

I will continue to come to MS, but I will strictly be staying on the member side, not as if it is any more safe there, but at least I do know most of the guys I talk to.

Back to you, Chris. I am sorry you felt that you needed to lie, for whatever reason. I wish you well on your recovery.


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#257100 - 10/22/08 11:40 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: FLRich]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
Do you remember me Chris?


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#257109 - 10/23/08 12:15 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: KeithR]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: KeithR
Do you remember me Chris?


Yes, of course! We talked quite a bit.


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#257119 - 10/23/08 02:38 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I've reread the original "reinstatement" & your post several times Chris.
I feel nothing.
What puzzles me is whether it is coming from me or your post?

From shock to anger to numb.
hmmm

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#257121 - 10/23/08 03:20 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: ineffable]
feelingafraid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 76
Loc: 5,471 FT above sea level




Edited by feelingafraid (11/24/08 06:58 PM)
_________________________
Hes a little boy let him be a little boy for the boy we never got to be.
Timmy

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#257135 - 10/23/08 07:06 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: feelingafraid]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
Here is a note I sent to a Mod on November 3, 2007

" I have been talking with rhepotsirhcs today. I am very concerned. I feel like it's one of two things:
1) He's being groomed right now by his counselor. We were in PM for a while, and I would be almost certain of it.
2) He's a fake. I had a wierd suspicion that he could even be Stephan, based on the way and speed at which he responds. I am probably just being paranoid. but the fact that this story is unfolding before us seems to be a common theme in some of the recent fakes. I will try to help him, as he is completely on the up and up, until I know different."

I was suscpicious of you at the beginning Chris, but in my next and last note to the mod, I was less suspicious. As time went on, I quickly began to trust what you were telling me, and while I don't remember all the details cuz I'm old, I know we told each other a lot. I suppose this scenario can remind many survivors of there childhoods. How can people not be hurt by what you did ? How can they forgive you so quickly?

I guess a thing I could have done is confront you myself immediately. Maybe you would have owned up then, or just left. What do you think you would have done?

You know what? My mother died when I was 19 from cancer and I had to help take care of her. I wish you could have shared that with me when it was happening instead of lies. Maybe it would have helped us both more than you could know.

I feel like you've hurt the younger members the most here, and most have stepped up to forgive you. The resilience of youth is amazing. Not all young members have forgiven you though and one I've know the longest and trust the most hasn't. I really want to understand his side of the story, and I think I will have a chance to hear it soon.

Now, the positive thing this has done is to cause me to be more honest with myself. What I realize is more how my actions hurt others. When I think about all the survivors I talk to I realize many of us are not honest in ways we need to be. We lie to those closest to us and hurt them. We lie about being straight when we are gay. We lie about being gay when we are straight. We lie to what happened to us as children. We lie about how it makes us feel as adults. We tell lies to ourselves and others when we don't even know we're telling them. When we finally reach this place we want that to be over. Of course when I came here, it wasn't completely over. The first thing I did was make up a name. I was a bad name too, one I used for acting out. Why would I hang on to that ??? I know it's still not over, because almost no one in my life knows I come here. Do I not want to burden them, or am I ashamed of what I've done as an adult? Am I afraid they won't associate with me if they know the real me ? YES. I have finally come to a point where I feel that way about the general 'normal' population, but not about other survivors. So when one of them hurts me, it hurts more.

I understand reactions from both sides.

I have to decide for myself. So I've decided I will forgive you. I don't know how I will react to you in the future. I guess that will depend on what I hear from other MS members, how I process this, and how you react.

Richard





Edited by KeithR (10/23/08 07:10 AM)

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#257169 - 10/23/08 12:26 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: KeithR]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
.



Edited by Barkabus (10/27/08 12:31 AM)

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#257170 - 10/23/08 12:52 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.


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#257184 - 10/23/08 01:35 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Forgivness doesnt (or shouldnt) mean no consequences. I made mistakes too in life and I took responsibility for those actions how the hurt person felt best, its called owning up. Sometimes I didnt like the terms, but I lost my say when I made the mistake and hurt them. So sure I forgive but own up like a grown up. Youre no longer 16. Just letting him back is grown up how? So sorry if you are uncomfy around me Bark because i have strong feelings, but his game caused me to lose a best friend.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#257186 - 10/23/08 01:44 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
What a crock of shit! Liars? Cons? Go $#%@ yourself!

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#257205 - 10/23/08 02:31 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
Loberhead, Chris, whoever you are.... why do you believe you need/deserve to be here after all of this at the expense of all those you have hurt????

Can you explain without calling what you did a mistake? bad choice? excape? or other excuse? What you have written so far does not really lay claim to your responsibility, although well thought out, it does not really speak to your intensions without a selfish overtone. Forgiveness is neither a requirement or a reaction, it is a gift that not everyone receives or gives.

The "We lie....", to quote from Keith up above, does not speak for all of us because I do not lie. I have a hard time saying what I need to say on this site but I rather tell the truth or keep my mouth shut than give someone reason not to believe me.

You can't tell me you wouldn't have got attention from what your story is now. Nineteen to me is no child, but hey I was in the military and had responsibilities beyond myself.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#257207 - 10/23/08 02:35 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
CHRIS, as long as You are willing to admit what was done was a mistake. And learned that it was the erong thing to to . I am willing to put this behind us both. I hope that you realize that being honest it is the best thing to do

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#257214 - 10/23/08 02:46 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3362
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Quote:
All this talk of forgiveness and how we all make mistakes has brought three things to mind for me.

1. I do need to forgive, for me. It is something I need to do. I don't know about others - I do know about me.

2. A person does not need to ask for forgiveness to receive it from me. I had a guy once say I couldn't forgive him because he never asked for it - I just don't think it works that way. Forgiveness is an internal thing (at least for me)

3. Forgiveness does not mean trust. I will forgive quickly, but it may take me a LONG time to trust again, depending on how deep the wound.

"Loberhead" - I do forgive you. But I cannot trust you completely. Not yet. That takes time, if it happens at all. I do hope you find healing for the wounds of your past. No one deserves to suffer those.


Mark - you said it exactly as I've been struggling with finding the words to... - thank you for that...

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#257216 - 10/23/08 03:09 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: TJ jeff]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
"In hatred as in love, we grow like the thing we brood upon. What we loathe, we graft into our very soul."

Mary Renault


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#257217 - 10/23/08 03:09 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: TJ jeff]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I'm so sick of this bullshit that "we need to forgive." Why? Why do people who hurt us, and worse, physically and sexually abuse a child, deserve forgiveness? Don't give me that bullshit that you need to forgive for your own benefit, because that is a crock of shit!

I'm not saying we should sit around a room all day and all night for years, dwelling on our hate for these people and even plotting revenge, but come on? Give me a goddamn fucking break! I think we have every right to be pissed off and not forgive, and I find it impossible to believe I'm the only one who feels this way, or at least my feelings are part of the "minority." I don't believe that.

What bothers me most about this whole situation, even though I don't believe I have ever corresponded with Cris, is that he pretended to still be in the situation of abuse. He led people to believe someone was still out there hurting him. Now if I had been corresponding with a young person, and I felt as if I was beginning to trust this person and care about this person, I'd be like..."Dude! Give me your address or give me the address of whomever is abusing you!" That would drive me to no end until I got a firm hold of the "phantom" abuser.

Isn't there another site for attention-getters? AGA? (Attention Getters Anonymous) Buy a puppy! They love attention and give plenty of it, especially at 3 in the morning when they need to go outside.

The post of this situation is exactly why, I personally, negate in sharing some of the more intimate and personal details of my sexual abuse as a child. This only serves to enrage me ever more so that some people out there think what I'm going through is some kind of a fucking game, and I'm your little puppet. Looking for attention is basically using myself and other members here to get what you want at the cost of our character and emotions. Well, read closely, "F#ck you!"

I know realize what an asshole I was when I first came around here and started with intimidation, hostility, and strong-arming. I get it now... people here don't like to be fucked with, as I feel that I may have been fucked with.

By the way, don't come knocking at this door looking for trust. We're all out, and there's no lay-away plan available!

Sorry for being harsh, but I'm telling it like it is.

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#257237 - 10/23/08 04:46 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.


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#257252 - 10/23/08 06:01 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Chris,

Welcome back,

It takes balls to stand up and take responsibility when you really screw up. And who hasn't?

Rich remember;

"He who is without sin among you,let him throw a stone at her first" John 8:7

Are you sinless?.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#257306 - 10/23/08 10:00 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I didn't single out you or anyone else, Mark. I was talking about myself. Guilty conscience?

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#257315 - 10/23/08 10:43 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
Hrm. Interesting. Thank you for proving that my instinct to disbelieve everyone and everything at this site except what and who I know to be warrented, and not just paraoid. Do not expect any response from me, and do not be surprised to find yourself on 'ignore' in chat. There is no one here sinless. But what you did was despicable, most specially in this setting. And what other things that is not even being presented here 'in the light of day', do you accept your responsibility for those actions also? Don't think it is secret, if even I know of it.

Reinstated. Whatever.

VN


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#257319 - 10/23/08 10:52 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.


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#257324 - 10/23/08 11:04 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Oh for God's sake! Another statement taken out of context. I know... I shouldn't be surprised!

So let me rephrase:

Don't give me that bullshit that "I" need to forgive for "MY" own benefit, because that is a crock of shit!

Happy?

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#257330 - 10/23/08 11:13 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: king tut]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Loberhead, u hurt my bros here. I hope u have learned.
I think u deserve a chance 2 change and u have it so be careful with it. Trust here is not a matter taken lightly.
Welcome back.



_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#257331 - 10/23/08 11:15 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.



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#257342 - 10/24/08 12:00 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Chris,

Do you see, now, the effects of what breaking trust does to people? These guys all used to be on the same page. Now we are all bickering and having to deal with feelings that none of us should have to deal with at a site like this.

I have to agree with Stretch...do not make me feel guilty or bad because I am not willing or capable of forgiving and trusting again. My perps did that to me for years. I will not take on your guilt. I will not be belittled for my incapacity to trust you or any other fraud that is allowed to come back to MS.

I hope you see the price of lying at a site like this. I very much hope that you utilize this place to deal with your issues honestly, because you have been given this chance at a great cost.


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#257344 - 10/24/08 12:16 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
Originally Posted By: Stretch73
Oh for God's sake! Another statement taken out of context. I know... I shouldn't be surprised!

So let me rephrase:

Don't give me that bullshit that "I" need to forgive for "MY" own benefit, because that is a crock of shit!

Happy?


I don't think it was taken out of context. I read it that way as well and I'm sure many others did too. Mark at least had courage to say what he thought. I read it and figured I'd just ignore it. If you don't feel you need to forgive, fine, that's good for you. I think Mark did a good job of making the case that what is good for one isn't always good for another. We're all in different places and dealing with different things and as such what one finds beneficial for them certain isn't going to feel beneficial to another.


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#257356 - 10/24/08 03:39 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: JustScott]
feelingafraid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 76
Loc: 5,471 FT above sea level




Edited by feelingafraid (11/24/08 06:59 PM)
_________________________
Hes a little boy let him be a little boy for the boy we never got to be.
Timmy

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#257379 - 10/24/08 10:05 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: feelingafraid]
Marcus Mystery Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 195
Hi Chris Ė

I absolutely believe your being honest now.. and I believe you didnt mean to hurt anyone by pretending to be someone else. Itís so easy to change your own reality over the internet.. and .. why would anyone want to be theirselves.. when it sucks so bad? .. right? .. I believe you made a mistake and are now trying to be honest .. Im glad your back and Im glad the other teens support you like I do.

-Marc


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#257411 - 10/24/08 11:24 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Marcus Mystery]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Since Tom (Muldoon) doesn't want to read what I wrote, I thought that everyone might enjoy it, and it might foster a more-productive discussion in this case:

Hey Tom:

I had a helpful relationship with Jarrad when I first started here and I don't support a permanent ban for anyone for a first offense. What happened to Jason Smalls? He finally took a chance on coming back here and Rich told him rather bluntly to grow up. Have you seen him since? Jason was 18 and was a bit insecure. I don't know enough about this particular case, but where do we draw the line on adults talking down to insecure and/or immature kids often early in their own recovery? Should the chatroom be a safe place for everybody or should we divide the chatroom into specific groups with specific needs and sensitivities? Maybe there should be some exclusionary qualifying admission policy into the GLBTG support group, not just to protect their needs or rights too. And I have already suggested that the site do just a cursory background check on everyone coming in here. It might present a barrier to posting admission of $10, but I think that it would be worth it, and would catch problems like this at the front door. And our staff could possibly waive it in hardship cases too.

In my 2nd post on this topic yesterday (two days ago) I tried to calm everyone down. It lasted for a couple of hours. I suggested that our support for Chris might make a better case for the redemption of others affected (in either of these or other cases). Ron is right in that we don't know all of what goes on behind the scenes. Without our at least conditional support Chris has little chance for recovery. At my age lying about my age by 3 years would affect no one except a few hotels where I have been given my AARP discount. So this is sort of an age-specific transgression rather than one that all of us would face the same wrath over.

Yeah, the kid made a mistake. Creating a false persona is a fairly common coping behavior within that age group though, and fairly common behavior among young people in general. I wonder how many of us tried to buy alcohol or get into a nightclub using fake ID at this kid's age? We don't all mature at the same rate either. What he did was wrong in that it affected other members on this site, some seriously. Do you believe what was said would have been appropriate to an insecure 19 year old but not to a similar 16 year old? When I was 16 it wouldn't have bothered me, as I was a tough kid who would have been too stoned to care. But it obviously bothered Chris, whatever his age. Was what was said appropriate in Chris' case even at age 19?

I would think that the best course of action might have been instead to not tell everyone and force the kid to take another username. Or perhaps to rehabilitate everyone involved in the case, with any adults suspended for their part in the affair leading the crusade for the young man's reinstatement and reacceptance by the group. But the staff chose to try a different strategy. Do we try to help this kid return or do we run him off in anger and fear for a first-time violation specific to his age group? I'm voting for us to help him and through our (at first) conditional acceptance it might make possible the eventual return of others affected in both of these cases. I don't see much good to be accomplished by banning anyone involved permanently. If they continue to violate the rules after a suspension it would make a much better case for a ban in my mind.

I don't support banning a young first-time offender who has tried really hard to apologize.

Just think about it, my man.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

That is just the way that I see it. Yes, some people were hurt. But that is what being a young person is all about. At that age we make mistakes and learn from them, and in just about every case that I know of, the offending young person is reaccepted once they have admitted and taken responsibility for their mistake. That is part of life as it has existed for most of us. If mistakes continue strictures must be increased in severity. Imagine life in prison for getting caught trying to use fake ID? That is what some of us are advocating here. And both I and many others think that such a penalty in Chris' case would be much too harsh.

As young Marcus said, "Im glad your back and Im glad the other teens support you like I do". And I hope that someday preferably sooner rather than later all of us can say the same thing, and together we can resume trying to find our way towards our common goals without fear or anger.

Thanks guys,

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#257419 - 10/24/08 11:36 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Trucker51]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Quťbec, Canada
Mark,

All I can add to what you've posted is : Amen, brother!!!

You've summed up the mature and responsible approach succinctly. Thank-You!!!

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#257440 - 10/24/08 12:32 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: joelRT]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
I don't like that you're getting let back. It's tough enough for us younger guys and this has just made it harder.


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#257626 - 10/25/08 12:01 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Nyjah]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
It was not a "mistake" it was intensionally taking advantage of the guys here by carrying on a false identity. He's 19 and not just some kid who don't know better, it's fraud. He created a character and at no time did he come forward. He did not claim responsibility, he was caught doing wrong!!!

Take him out for the first offense of this nature? YES!!! This site is sure not built on deception especially in how much a good lot of us struggle with trust. I'm not even saying what I really think but this should be enough. He could go to another site and start off new, we don't know him anyway by his choices so why is it so hard? Why us? I don't like being anybody's guinea pig.

Just hurts

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#257696 - 10/25/08 02:11 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: usmc97]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I bet some folks here recall people in their childhood that were allowed to stay in their lives because Mom and others would refuse to see the truth sitting before them.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#257704 - 10/25/08 05:55 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Still]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
It was not a mistake. It was done wilfully. And the more I think on it, the more I think the decision to allow him to return is bullshit.

Andrei


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#257717 - 10/25/08 07:16 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
Marcus Mystery Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 195
I dont think letting him return is bullshit, everyone wants to be forgiven for their mistakes and I believe Chris is really making an effort to set things right.

I just wanna point out that this is after all.. the internet.. thats right, where you are free to be whatever you want, even on a place like this some people may feel the need to not be themselves. No matter what community you visit online there's always a risk you will come across someone that isnt who they say they are.

When I was in Kindergarden and I remeber this pretty well, me and my mum lived with my grandmother for a while. I told all the kids in my section that my grandmother was half unicorn, and that she had a lump on her forehead where her horn was about to come out. I told them I also had a horn coming because she was my grandmother after all, I let all the kids try feel the horn on my forehead and lot of them swore they could feel it too, I also told them that lot of other kids become unicorns too so I offered to feel for a horn for them (sinse I knew all about this of course) I randomly picked kids out saying they also had a horn coming. Man... everyone was so excited. The instructor came along and heard my tall tale about half unicorns and scolded me for telling lies to the other kids, and informed the other kids too that I was not being honest. She made me apologize to the other kids, I did and one of the boys said "Man... that would have been soo cool" .. the next hour we were all playing on the monkey bars together. smile hehe ..

Anyway I just think we should give him a chance and see how it goes, well atleast that is what I'm going to do.

-Marc


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#257718 - 10/25/08 07:22 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
conflicted Offline


Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 45
Loc: Greenville, SC
Originally Posted By: ak
It was not a mistake. It was done wilfully.


I hesitate to jump in here and give my 2 cents, but after reading the entire post, i believe that it is needed.

Trust is not something that is deserved... you earn it. When you violate someone's trust you equally violate that person. The two are inseparable, in my opinion.

As to the second chance given... why is it right to extend this? What I am about to say, may not sit well with some, but this is who I am.

I believe in a God of second chances, who has extended His grace and mercy to me over and over again. I can extend a second chance to Chris, because I have also received such, i.e., second chance opportunities.

Chris your bank account named trust, is totally void of funds. When the balance reaches zero, you cannot draw out anything more... you have to start making deposits if you expect to be able to draw on this account. Admitting your intentional wrong doing, which is so vastly different from making a mistake, is the mandatory, first deposit that you can make into this account, that deposit brings you to zero.
Keep making deposits, and eventually you will regain some of the trust back from the MS family. But remember, it is a whole lot harder to regain this once lost. Hope this makes some sense to you and the others who have logged in on this topic.

_________________________
Masquerades are a lot of fun, until you see it is really your life.


my story...finally out *triggers*

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#257719 - 10/25/08 08:07 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: conflicted]
beakin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Texas
Pretty new here, but felt the need to share.

I'm working with a woman who's son was abused at four. She told me he's been in trouble at school lately. She told me she told him he's lost her trust. He's just lied too much.

My response was that this is what hurt people do - they lie. I'm about to turn 56 and I've lied my way through life until very recently. I started lying to myself in childhood. I rewrote my entire life to try to be okay because, of course, I knew I wasn't. My abuse was my fault and I couldn't let others see that. The lies continued as I got older and tried to pretend that my life wasn't ruled by what happened to me in childhood.

This guy came back and told the truth. He didn't have to do that. I don't know about anyone else, but I remember me at 19 and I can assure you I was anything but an adult. Emotionally, I was still 12 - hell, probably 5. Thank God the people in my life have forgiven me for mistakes I made. Sorry, but most of the lies I told other people weren't deliberate in a conscious way. They were my defense mechanism. I needed people to protect me (I thought) and how was that going to happen if I told them the truth about me.

Again, 56. I'm finally learning how to admit I need help. More importantly, I'm asking for help. It hurts like hell and I'm scared. I don't want to feel all these feelings again, but I know I have to remember what happened before I can let them go. How I wish I could have admitted all this at 19.

I just shared with a friend who emailed me this morning. He referred to me as a "dear friend". Anyone else out there understand why that scares me? I know that I trust no one fully - particularly men. But, that says a lot about me. There are men in my life who have given me no reason not to trust them and yet I still have problems believing they can be trusted. That's for me to work on. I know the only way I'll ever get better is to find a way to stop giving into the idea that "if they knew the real me, they'd walk away." Frankly, that's never happened to me in my entire life. And yet I still hold on to the idea. Have people walked away? Sure. But not a single person who actually cares about me has done so.

So, I say I can't give you a break unless I'm willing to give myself a break. I say welcome to someone who's willing to admit a wrong and try to make it right. That's what recovery's about, isn't it?


ben

_________________________
Only you can do it, but you cannot do it alone.

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#257721 - 10/25/08 08:28 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: beakin]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I wish he would respond in this thread...I'd feel like we were actually being heard and acknowledged then.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#257723 - 10/25/08 08:41 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 1298
???????

Iím sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now

Iíve had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope

Iím sick to death of seeing things
From tight-lipped, condescending, mamaís little chauvinists
All I want is the truth now
Just gimmie some truth now

All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now

Ash - Give Me Some Truth (B-side 1995)


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#257726 - 10/25/08 09:04 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 1298
So here we are back at this point again.

Someone comes here and lies about their age and what is happening to them, and engagies in cyber sex and not for the first time, he tried it on with several here, several times in chat.

And what the fuck is the smiley face for....taunting maybe..

But the powers that be let him back and open their arms to him. and here is the kicker, others who have said one thing the powers that be dont like are banned, and are still banned, so one rule for one and another for the rest of us.

Today two long term members have been banned. so yet another rule for some and not others.

So is it say what we want and you will be allowed to stay, been told that so many times so long ago.

Could say a lot more but what would be the point.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=qeTmnHquqqo


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#257778 - 10/25/08 01:06 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
behindthewall Offline


Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 126
Loc: US
I have contemplated posting on this thread for days. I have only been here since July and had no contact with Christopher so therefore I do not know the complete story. I suppose its not my place but here I am anyway.

I will start off by saying that I have never misrepresented myself on this board. On here I am anonymous anyway. Still though, even with that, when I post something I very rarely go back to read replies because I am scared to see what people have said in response. I force myself to go into chat, trying to get more comfortable around men. I don't talk a lot, and when I do I try to keep it very generic. When things start getting personal I tend to run.

I have misrepresented myself my whole life. I was taught to lie. My family made sure I lied and lied well. I was shown what would happen to my brothers or sister if I didn't. Every time a teacher would ask me about a bruise, burn or cut, I would lie. I developed a reputation as a fighter to help my lies have credibility. I took up the sport of hockey to further help. When my friends asked me how much candy I got or what I dressed up as for Halloween, I lied. I didn't tell them I spent the evening involved in occult rituals. Every Sunday when we sat in church (yes, church provided a good cover for my family activities) it was a lie. Every time I go into a store and buy beer or go to the pool hall and show my fake id (I'm 19), I lie. A few weeks back I had an assignment for my eng lit class to write about how I have carried on my family traditions and what they mean to me. My family traditions could not be shared. I lied.

Yes, trust is important to me and no I don't like being lied to. I can't really say it hurts me because I have no expectations of anyone. It does make it harder though, I get that. I am learning and growing. I hope one day I will be strong enough to let go of some of these lies that I still feel I need.

I realize this will probably make some of you stear clear of me now. Chris, you have some guys here that are willing to give you a second chance. I wish you luck and I hope you can move on from this.

Jesse



Edited by behindthewall (10/26/08 11:51 AM)
Edit Reason: cuz I couldn't seem to spell right the first time around

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#257784 - 10/25/08 01:48 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Marcus Mystery]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Originally Posted By: Marcus Mystery
When I was in Kindergarden and I remeber this pretty well, me and my mum lived with my grandmother for a while. I told all the kids in my section that my grandmother was half unicorn, and that she had a lump on her forehead where her horn was about to come out. I told them I also had a horn coming because she was my grandmother after all, I let all the kids try feel the horn on my forehead and lot of them swore they could feel it too, I also told them that lot of other kids become unicorns too so I offered to feel for a horn for them (sinse I knew all about this of course) I randomly picked kids out saying they also had a horn coming. Man... everyone was so excited. The instructor came along and heard my tall tale about half unicorns and scolded me for telling lies to the other kids, and informed the other kids too that I was not being honest. She made me apologize to the other kids, I did and one of the boys said "Man... that would have been soo cool" .. the next hour we were all playing on the monkey bars together. smile hehe ..


What a great way of putting it Marc. I'm sure some will say, "But you were in kindergarten, Chris is 19, the two scenarios are entirely different." The point remains the same. We all deserve a second chance. We've all NEEDED a second chance.

Thanks for sharing this Marc.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#257809 - 10/25/08 03:01 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Barkabus
We all deserve a second chance. We've all NEEDED a second chance.


So do our perps deserve a second chance? Or is that an exception? I hear otherwise from a lot of folks here. Not trying to argue just looking at the logic.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#257815 - 10/25/08 03:12 PM . [Re: king tut]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
.


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 06:38 PM)

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#257817 - 10/25/08 03:29 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Andy,

I think we need to keep this reinstatement in prospective.

If you are willing to give Chris a second chance then you can interact with him.

If you are not just ignore him and interact with those you usually do.

In no way do I condone his past behavior or what he did.

If he is not truely repented it will not take long for us to see it.
But I feel he at least deserves a chance.

MIKE

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#257818 - 10/25/08 03:29 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
Andy, do you really think we're comparing apples to apples here? Our perps committed a felony. I'm having a hard time equating what Chris did to what our perps did. I suppose the forgiveness part is going to have to be a unique choice based on every individual.

I guess the way I'm seeing it currently is that the more we let this issue affect us, the more we let it control us. It no longer becomes Chris' actions that control us, but our own emotions, we become prisoners in a jail that we build ourselves.

So Chris comes back, we all know his name in here. It's our choice to socialize with him or not. From what it seems, the decision has been made to reinstate him and no matter what we all say and/or do that decision's not going to change.

I do want to add, however, that I agree with a comment you made earlier. Where has Chris been through this entire conversation? There have been a lot of people in here putting there necks out for him and taking a lot of direct shit from others because of it (myself included!). Not to mention all of people saying that he's hurt them really bad. Chris, if you're reading this... you might want to acknowledge some of this.

Andy, I'm not trying to argue with you either... just my thoughts. I hope this is the last time I feel any desire to post in this thread.
Allen


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#257825 - 10/25/08 04:12 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Roofus]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I just think a lie is a lie...there's no better or worse lies, in my opinion. My perp lied to me, as everyone's did here I'm sure.

My perp's lies have cost me best friends, as have Chris'...or whatever his name is. Just my feelings, though.

So sorry if I'm not all-forgiving like apparently I should be...

This place confuses me. We're mad when we should be forgiving and we're forgiving when we should be mad...

It's selfish of people to guilt us into forgiving. If I make a mistake, I should only expect them to forgive me if and when they feel right about it. Not before.

I lost my say and rights by messing up.



_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#257829 - 10/25/08 04:31 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005

This place confuses me. We're mad when we should be forgiving and we're forgiving when we should be mad...


QUOTE OF THE WEEK!

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#257830 - 10/25/08 04:32 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: bardo213]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Gotta say I'm not feeling 2 comfortable here any more. You guys wanna do background checks? Is that just 2 check 4 sex offenders, or do u want to throw everyone out who as any kind of criminal history?

If recovery has 2 be the exclusive privilege of those who have never been in trouble or done something stupid, then I guess it's happy trails 2 u all.

Wanna know MY dirt? I robbed a pharmacy 8 years ago. I had made 2 many unsuccessful suicide attempts and I knew that the only way I had a chance of succeeding was with powerful pre>
_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#257831 - 10/25/08 04:41 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Andy,

Noboby is telling you or anybody else to forgive Chris.
Nor is anybody telling you that you have to interact with him.
What he did was totatly wrong.
And whether or not you choice to forgive him is entirely up to you.
But he has apologized and admitted to his dishonest behavior on this site for all to see.
So I feel he should be given a second chance.
As I said in my previous post it won't take long to find out if he is sincere or not.
It takes alot of courage to face the wreckage of your past and become willing to change.
And I am willing to help him change.

MIKE

PS; do you remember what it's like to be the outcast. I SURE DO




Edited by michael banks (10/25/08 04:49 PM)
_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#257837 - 10/25/08 05:25 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: michael banks


As I said in my previous post it won't take long to find out if he is sincere or not.


Not long at all! And if he's still playing games he can fade away into the land of ignore where u talk and nobody hears.. a fitting hell for a liar, no? We have power here in cyberspace where we didn't have power in 3d reality. We don't have 2 be victims here.



_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#257871 - 10/25/08 06:50 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: blueshift]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Blueshift,

I fully see your side, but I have seen and been victim of some pretty fkt-up frauds here.

I think lies to fellow survivors are just too direct a blow to our already-fragile trust.

There WAS a guy here who claimed to be 22-yo and was actually 52. He was the pet-prince of the site for a very long time. He got caught and exposed. The damage he did was extensive to say the least. People were SO shaken by the breach of trust that some left and others still will not trust enough to allow anyone to get close to them again here.

NOW...even in civil and criminal law, there are exceptions to laws (rules) granted via the judiciary (Mods). Here at MS the Mods play the absolute judicial role. We don't always know the details and background that they know. I'm willing to trust the judge's ruling.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#257887 - 10/25/08 07:44 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: behindthewall]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: behindthewall
I have contemplated posting on this thread for days. I have only been here since July and had no contact with Christopher so therefore I do not know the complete story. I suppose its not my place but here I am anyway.

I will start off by saying that I have never misrepresented on this board. On here I am anonymous anyway. Still though, even with that, when I post something I very rarely go back to read replies because I am scared to see what people have said in response. I force myself to go into chat, trying to get more comfortable around men. I don't talk a lot, and when I do I try to keep it very generic. When things start getting personal I tend to run.

I have misrepresented myself my whole life. I was taught to lie. My family made sure I lied and lied well. I was showed what would happen to my brothers or sister if I didn't. Every time a teacher would ask my about a bruise, burn or cut, I would lie. I developed a reputation as a fighter to help my lies have credibility. I took up the sport of hockey to further help. When my friends asked me how much candy I got or what I dressed up as for Halloween, I lied. I didn't tell them I spent the evening involved in occult rituals. Every Sunday when we sat in church (yes, church provided a good cover for my family activities) it was a lie. Every time I go into a store and buy beer or go to the pool hall and show my fake id (I'm 19), I lie. A few weeks back I had an assignment for my eng lit class to write about how my I have carried on my family traditions and what they mean to me. My family traditions could not be shared. I lied.

Yes, trust is important to me and no I don't like being lied to. I can't really say it hurts me because I have no expectations from anyone. It does make it harder though, I get that. I am learning and growing. I hope one day I will be strong enough to let go of some of these lies that I still feel I need.

I realize this will probably make some of you stear clear of me now. Chris, you have some guys here that are willing to give you a second chance. I wish you luck and I hope you can move on from this.

Jesse


Right on Jesse! Spoken from the heart and well said.


_________________________
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My Art

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#257890 - 10/25/08 07:56 PM **T** [Re: Still]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
Blueshift,



I think lies to fellow survivors are just too direct a blow to our already-fragile trust.



I hear that Robbie. **T** Speaking as 1 who once went with an older kid thinking he was going 2 b my buddy and teach me how to shoot baskets better and ended up getting gang raped I know how it feels to have trust betrayed.

I also know how it feels to have a big judging door slammed in my face denying me opportunity to ever feel worthy or even fully human. I know which pain is worse.



_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#257891 - 10/25/08 08:07 PM Re: **T** [Re: blueshift]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I'm sorry...I lost a best friend...forever...over some F-Kd up game....so yeah I'm mad...I apologize for that. Maybe I am judging...and I'm sorry...but I'm really emotional about this.

I'll just shut up on this topic.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#257897 - 10/25/08 08:35 PM Re: **T** [Re: AndyJB2005]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Robbie,

I take some issue with your statement.

Even with a judge's ruling, the written opinion provides some reasoning as to why the decision was made. Here, there was no such statement made. That just blows trust over the Mods decision out of the water. So now we have trust being blown from below and above. Lovely, huh?

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#257912 - 10/25/08 08:57 PM Re: **T** [Re: LN3(SS)]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Jesse,

Thanks for sharing this one paragraph. I could use it to describe my own upbringing and experience from grade school through the age of 21, and wouldn't have to add more than a few sentences:

----------------------------------------------------------------

"I have misrepresented myself my whole life. I was taught to lie. My family made sure I lied and lied well. I was showed what would happen to my brothers or sister if I didn't. Every time a teacher would ask my about a bruise, burn or cut, I would lie. I developed a reputation as a fighter to help my lies have credibility. I took up the sport of hockey to further help. When my friends asked me how much candy I got or what I dressed up as for Halloween, I lied. I didn't tell them I spent the evening involved in occult rituals. Every Sunday when we sat in church (yes, church provided a good cover for my family activities) it was a lie. Every time I go into a store and buy beer or go to the pool hall and show my fake id (I'm 19), I lie. A few weeks back I had an assignment for my eng lit class to write about how my I have carried on my family traditions and what they mean to me. My family traditions could not be shared. I lied".

----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks again for sharing this and no matter what others think, I'll be around if you need to talk.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#257921 - 10/25/08 09:18 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: behindthewall]
Davesc Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 67
Loc: NJ
I too feel second chances are a gift and should be given and when received , treasured. I have also lied my whole life. That is how I have coped with what my life turned into. That is how I hid form myself. My wife has given me a second chance for much more than anything Chris has done. On another thread, I read how the brain doesn't develop the ability to make choices with rational long term thinking, Like,What will happen, If I do this, Young people make stupid decisions and so do old farts like me 57. Everyone deserves a second chance. Even those who have been banned from this site. We Need Each Other! Dave

_________________________
Davesc
_______________________________________
Thankful Wor Kirkridge Alumni Oct 2008

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#257922 - 10/25/08 09:19 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Davesc]
Davesc Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 67
Loc: NJ
This went to the wrong thread sorry guys.

_________________________
Davesc
_______________________________________
Thankful Wor Kirkridge Alumni Oct 2008

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#257923 - 10/25/08 09:20 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: behindthewall]
Davesc Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 67
Loc: NJ
I too feel second chances are a gift and should be given and when received , treasured. I have also lied my whole life. That is how I have coped with what my life turned into. That is how I hid form myself. My wife has given me a second chance for much more than anything Chris has done. On another thread, I read how the brain doesn't develop the ability to make choices with rational long term thinking, Like,What will happen, If I do this, Young people make stupid decisions and so do old farts like me 57. Everyone deserves a second chance. Even those who have been banned from this site. We Need Each Other! Dave

_________________________
Davesc
_______________________________________
Thankful Wor Kirkridge Alumni Oct 2008

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#257931 - 10/25/08 09:57 PM Re: **T** [Re: AndyJB2005]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
I'm sorry...I lost a best friend...forever...over some F-Kd up game....so yeah I'm mad...I apologize for that. Maybe I am judging...and I'm sorry...but I'm really emotional about this.

I'll just shut up on this topic.


I understand your feelings. You have a lot 2 be angry about. I'm hardly inclined to b overly trusting or even necessarily forgiving of Christopher. I was not involved at all with him and "rehpotsirhcs" is just a familiar screenname 2 me, but I would like 2 c what he apparently went to some lengths 2 come back 4.

If he managed 2 convince Larry that this is true and that he's being honest now I'm willing 2 hear what he's got 2 say and judge 4 myself. We have a huge advantage now: we're on 2 him. He has 2 either b himself or b a ghost..cuz I'll put him on ignore the minute I get the feeling he's full of it and I'm sure everyone else will 2.


_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#257932 - 10/25/08 09:59 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Davesc]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
I keep re-reading this thread in an effort to sort out my feelings. At this point, I am very conflicted.

I want to forgive Chris for his actions and I do. We have all made mistakes and I am sure we have all lied about our lives(I know I have). Everyone should be entitled to a second chance in life...in fact, I think everyone on this site has been given a second chance at life.

However, what makes it so difficult for me is the number of people who have been hurt by Chris's actions and the loss of trust that has developed in the MS site.

I feel like a child who lives in dysfunctional family, and as a result, I am being asked to choose sides.

I guess, I just need to have faith that the Mods made the right decision and are protecting all our interests.


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#257935 - 10/25/08 10:10 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Davesc]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: Davesc


this is from one of my favorite groups [sanctus real] and this song from their latest album seems appropriate:

I think I caught a glimpse of
Life without friends
Bitter, empty, hollow, dark and lonely
We never meant to hurt each other
So Canít we trust again
And take it as a chance
To keep on growing

I donít know why it doesnít come easy
But I know that we could be happy
If weíd only learn to love

Oh oh we need each other
So whatís the fighting for
Oh oh we need each other
Please donít close the door
Oh oh we need each other
Through all the highs and lows
Oh oh we need each other
Cuz no oneís meant to live alone

Life revolves around the need
Of having someone
Causing every complicated feeling
Oh and I donít want to loose you
And there is nothing wrong with
Telling me what you need
To keep our love strong

Itís just a part of being a family
Taking the good with the bad and the ugly
If we could only learn to love

Oh oh we need each other
So whatís the fighting for
Oh oh we need each other
Please donít close the door
Oh oh we need each other
Through all the highs and lows
Oh oh we need each other
Cuz I donít want to be alone

Oh Oh we need each other
Fathers and Mothers
Oh oh we need each other
All your sisters and brothers
Oh oh we need each other
We need friends and lovers
Oh Oh we need each other

Well I need you
You need me
Cuz thatís the way
Itís meant to be
I need you
We need each other
(I donít want to be alone)

.......something to mull over a bit more perhaps,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#257937 - 10/25/08 10:17 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Sans Logos]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
I have been reading the all replies to this post. Iím glad so many have responded, regardless of what your opinion is. I saw a couple guys wanting to know if Iím hearing them. Yes, I am. But, I want to organize my thoughts and respond tomorrow.

Thanks again for your comments,
Chris



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#257939 - 10/25/08 10:21 PM Re: **T** [Re: blueshift]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: blueshift
I understand your feelings. You have a lot 2 be angry about. I'm hardly inclined to b overly trusting or even necessarily forgiving of Christopher. I was not involved at all with him and "rehpotsirhcs" is just a familiar screenname 2 me, but I would like 2 c what he apparently went to some lengths 2 come back 4.

If he managed 2 convince Larry that this is true and that he's being honest now I'm willing 2 hear what he's got 2 say and judge 4 myself. We have a huge advantage now: we're on 2 him. He has 2 either b himself or b a ghost..cuz I'll put him on ignore the minute I get the feeling he's full of it and I'm sure everyone else will 2.


Well he better be grateful...and thankful. Because other people don't get the benefits he does for some reason.

[...]

I hope Chris appreciates MS and the support he gets....my friend sure did, but now he has nothing.



Edited by AndyJB2005 (10/25/08 10:57 PM)
Edit Reason: Because saying how I feel gets me no where usually...
_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#258097 - 10/26/08 03:56 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
The main purpose of this thread is for me to take responsibility for what I did when I came to MaleSurvivor in a false identity and hear how it affects guys on the site. I was expecting to hear a lot of anger and hurt from the guys on this site, because Larry told me that is what would happen. What surprised me was that so many of you have forgiven me and are willing to give me a chance. This is more than I could have hoped for or asked for. I want to respond to both sides.

To the Teens:

Several of you guys have supported my return to the site and stood up for me. Iím honored that you would still consider me worthy to defend, especially now that some adults may doubt teens more. I now realize how selfish and immature I was and what a big step it is for you to support me in spite of that.

Nyjah, I am very sorry I hurt you all over again. I will do my best to show you who I can be as the real Chris and I hope one day we can be friends. But if thatís not possible I understand and accept your decision.

To the people who support my return:

Thank you for giving me a second chance. I was fully expecting guys to be very angry and upset at what I had done, but Iím truly amazed at how many guys have forgiven me. I am hearing the message that I have to prove myself and I will do my best to do that.

To the people who are still angry and hurt:

I have read your replies to my post and I accept how you feel. I know I deserve your reaction, not the reaction of those who are forgiving me. If you feel youíd rather keep your distance from me I will accept that too.

When I posted about what happened it was not my intention to minimize or explain away what I did. It was wrong for me to lie. I cannot undo it, but I am trying to learn from it and move forward towards living a healthy adult life. This includes taking responsibility for my actions, which is why it was important for me to inform the members on this site of the truth behind the false identity. There are no excuses for what I did, and Iím not trying to give excuses.

The ModTeam has given me a chance to come back to the site in stages. Iím not fully reinstated on the site. For example, I cannot enter the chat room yet. They have told me I have to prove myself. Itís like the saying, ďactions speak louder than words.Ē

One thing I decided to do was to give my attention to this thread, and not post anything at first. You are saying things I need to hear. When I start posting on the site, at first I will be posting only in reply to other posts. The ModTeam hasnít told me to do this. Iím doing this because I feel I need to show myself as a responsible and safe member of the community before I start asking for things for myself again.

Thanks for your comments and thoughts,
Chris





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#258102 - 10/26/08 04:34 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I think any response I make after this is lost, beating a dead horse and all, but I wanted to say you better appreciate this...it cost a lot.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#258111 - 10/26/08 05:03 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Cost too much.


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#258139 - 10/26/08 06:21 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
Just stay away from me.


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#258140 - 10/26/08 06:21 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: ak]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
Chris, I'm sorry about your stepfather.


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#258146 - 10/26/08 06:39 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
.



Edited by Barkabus (10/27/08 12:32 AM)

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#258162 - 10/26/08 08:07 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: loberhead


Thank you for giving me a second chance. I was fully expecting guys to be very angry and upset at what I had done, but Iím truly amazed at how many guys have forgiven me.


Don't assume that all who have chosen 2 give u another chance have necessarily 4given u or that they are not still angry and upset. I never saw any of the posts where u lied about being in a situation of active abuse, but I know that if I had I would have been emotionally abused by u like others were and I don't take kindly 2 that kind of thing.



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My Art

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#258227 - 10/27/08 02:37 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: AndyJB2005]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Andy,

Maybe the reinstatement of Chris, if successful will allow others who have been banned to also be reinstated in the future.
So maybe this could work out to the benefit of all.

MIKE

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#258239 - 10/27/08 06:38 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Quote:
Please comment in that spirit and bear in mind that this is not about other parties, whose cases are separate private matters and should not be raised in this context.

Michael, I think this quote from Larry says it all. It seems that this exception is a one time only deal, to be given because he was a teenager? Feel free to roast me if I'm wrong?

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#258402 - 10/27/08 08:21 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Originally Posted By: loberhead
The main purpose of this thread is for me to take responsibility for what I did when I came to MaleSurvivor in a false identity and hear how it affects guys on the site.


I see. But taking responsibility for what OTHER things you done here, that is not requirement it seems? The entire issue of this reinstatement is ludicrous, because the information is so filtered that it's about see-through. I don't mind the occasional tickle of someone blowing smoke up my ass, but to be mistaken for a moron, to be dictated to about what WILL be done here, with seemingly no consideration of the aftermath, is just pure bullshit.

I have been a member here for over 5 years. No more.

Oh, and I have been pushed to the edge of sanity and suicide by a fraud here in the past, so no, no forgiveness from me. Not that it fucking matters.

Ciao, adios, da svidanya, etc.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#258403 - 10/27/08 08:45 PM . [Re: Leosha]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
.


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#258409 - 10/27/08 09:03 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Paul1959]
Thomas J Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 83
Loc: Oklahoma
i wasnt gonna say nothin cuz i dont wanna make nobody mad but i think u was wrong chris cuz u hurt a lot of real kids here n lot of other ppl here 2 but if the mods wanna let u bk they kno more then i do about u but u sure owe a lotta ppl here alot of srys n alotta ppl aint gonna take it. u shld really b 4 real when u come or even more ppl r gonna get hurt.


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#258452 - 10/28/08 02:37 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
.



Edited by Barkabus (10/30/08 06:17 PM)

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#258468 - 10/28/08 08:10 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
piperlime Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Metro NY
If there is more to this than false identity, we need to know. Asking us to trust without full disclosure continues the cycle of dishonesty.

A full confession is needed.


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#258524 - 10/28/08 12:16 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: piperlime]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I disagree somewhat. I donít think we need to know everything that transpired, and frankly, Iíll wager that we donít want to know. It will probably make us even more angry.

The boy did something dishonest and wrong. Very true! He was caught. Had he come forward and admitted wrong-doing prior to being caught remains to be seen. Eventually, whether it was coerced or demanded that he apologize, he did. The boy couldíve easily said, ďFuck this,Ē and stepped away from the site, never to return.

I think most people here have been very harsh in this thread, including myself. Itís not fun to be duped ďagainĒ and again, especially by the people with whom you should feel the closest attachment, because they too have experience similar circumstances as you or I.

The kid is 19 years-old. He doesnít know shit about shit! He doesnít know his ass from a hole in the ground. I think youíd be hard-pressed to find any 19 year-old who didnít make a mistake. I think it would be even more difficult for you to find the perfection in your own teenage years.

Havenít any of you ever done anything that was wrong? We all have. Weíve all made poor decisions in the past. Many of us were forgiven and moved on to learn from those we may have wronged and hurt in the process. I think everyone has been given a second chance at something at some point in their lives.

I am upset as well with this entire situation. It will be very difficult for this kid to earn my trust and respect from here. In fact, it would be reasonable to admit that he may never realize that I may never trust him or return the favor of trust. Thatís just the way it goes, and Iím sure many of you feel the same way. Trust isnít granted. Itís not a gift, or a friendly gesture. Trust is earned and should be regarded as important from one to another forever. I fire employees I donít trust. I refuse to deal with customers who I donít trust. I will never order supplies from an unworthy and distrusting company. I believe this is why my business, and my professional reputation is top-notch. You WILL NOT be very successful in anything you do if people donít trust you!

ďCoachĒ (You know who he is if youíve read my past posts.) always told me,
ďThereís three very important aspects of you life that you need to live up to;

1)Your word.
2)Your credit.
3)Your reputation.

And all three work hand-in-hand, because if you donít pay off your credit, you break your word because you swore you would, and that will ruin your reputation.


I donít know what to think here. I do think everyoneís opinion is valid and their brutal honesty warranted by someone who created a dishonest faÁade. Iím more interested to know ďwhy?Ē Some of us use certain mechanisms to cope with the tragedies of life and to help ourselves further move beyond the horrible experiences of yesterday. Maybe we lie and break hearts to get there. Maybe we struggle with pushing people down so we can get ahead. Maybe we pretend to something weíre not simply because we donít like who we really are. I think the list can go on and on as to why we choose to do certain things to cope. I have spent a good deal of time stepping on people who were in my way. Iíve always had the mindset that Iím willing to do what the other guy wonít in order to further my cause, or my own personal success. Iíve been accused as an overachiever, simply because I care not of other people but my own abilities to get ahead, and the lack of compassion for those I push aside or leave behind. I was never handed a manual, detailing how I should do things, and how I could achieve my personal success. I did it the only way I knew how. Maybe Chris can relate.

Since Iíve been a member of this site, my lack of compassion and emotion for other members has come under fire on more occasions than one. I have been referred to as judgmental, ignorant, hostile, intimidating, and hypocritical. Iíll accept all of those as part of my characteristics, separated from the parts of my persona which are warm, caring, loving, honest, and heartfelt. I have understood in the recent past, and I understand now that certain character traits I bear are not welcome and even offensive on this particular site. I am trying to change that and genuinely help. Maybe Chris should have the same second chance.

Finally, I think the kid should be given a second chance. He did something that was inappropriate and wrong, we all know that. Whether it was demanded he apologize or not, doesnít matter. He still apologized. Is he still not our brother in recovery? Is he less worthy of our understanding and compassion? Instead of looking at the 19 year-old, divert your attention to the 6 year-old, or the 8 year-old, who didnít have anyone and was beaten and tortured and sexually brutalized. Now I ask you this; ďHow could he trust enough to be himself?Ē

I thank God for second chances. I also thank my friends for second, third, forth, and infinity chances.


Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#258995 - 10/30/08 11:55 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
.



Edited by Barkabus (10/30/08 06:17 PM)

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#259002 - 10/30/08 12:31 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Barkabus]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
Might I suggest giving up?

I am obviously not going to get what I need to hear. I needed to hear honesty. Unfortunately, in this situation, it's like my revictimization by the Navy. I am to pretend nothing happened and accept the word of my senior officers.

"God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can,
and the WISDOM to know the difference."

::salutes, says "aye, aye sir", about faces, and leaves this thread::

Much hurting,
Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#259028 - 10/30/08 01:42 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: LN3(SS)]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
deleted.



Edited by Nyjah (10/30/08 04:28 PM)

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#259040 - 10/30/08 02:16 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Nyjah]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Hey,

Just wondering, is the horse dead yet?

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#259058 - 10/30/08 03:44 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Hey,

Just wondering, is the horse dead yet?

Mike


Probly, but let em beat it anyway..they've had 2 deal with a lot of horseshit.

I'm 4 giving him another chance, but if he's not willing 2 deal with a lot of people being angry about what he did, then I'd question whether he deserves it.

One thing though..(and this isn't in reply to you Micheal,) I don't really like the insinuations made about something far more heinous that hasn't been confessed and can't be talked about. I mean, if someone has some reason 2 believe something more sinister happened than what has been brought to light, but is prevented from discussing it here bcuz of confidentiality issues, then bring that up with Larry, but this talking about what can't be talked about stuff just gives me a headache.

I don't like my being made 2 feel like I should disagree with Larry's decision based on something I can know nothing about.

It's kinda like saying "Don't vote for Obama! I can't tell you why, but, boy if you only knew!" crazy




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My Art

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#259070 - 10/30/08 04:53 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: MarkK]
feelingafraid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 76
Loc: 5,471 FT above sea level
SORRY I OPENED MY MOUTH ABOUT IT

tobybreal



Edited by feelingafraid (10/30/08 04:59 PM)
Edit Reason: FEAR
_________________________
Hes a little boy let him be a little boy for the boy we never got to be.
Timmy

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#259076 - 10/30/08 05:26 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: feelingafraid]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
In light of some unfounded statements made on this thread we would like everyone to know that Chris has framed his statement to our community according to the guidelines the ModTeam as a whole has given him and in accordance with the very strict conditions governing his return. Further matters cannot and will not be discussed because they relate to the cases of other users and raise important issues of confidentiality. This is a well-known principle on this site and will not be compromised. Calls for Chris to divulge details on other matters are therefore inappropriate.

Chris has struggled through some very difficult and soul-searching work in order to gain his return, and we are working with others in the same way we have worked with him. Rumors and suggestions along any other lines are unfounded.

Please bear in mind that while this thread has been opened for Chris to hear your comments, this site is about healing and recovery. Guys returning to the site after having acted out with their broken boundaries are already feeling bad enough about themselves. This site is about healing and recovery; it is not about further destruction of guys - and this includes all of us - who come here in need of understanding and support. We all came here broken in one form or another, with the hope of regaining some wholeness.

Eddie, aka EGL
For the ModTeam

_________________________
Eddie

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#259147 - 10/31/08 01:26 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: blueshift]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Originally Posted By: blueshift
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Hey,

Just wondering, is the horse dead yet?

Mike


Probly, but let em beat it anyway..they've had 2 deal with a lot of horseshit.

I'm 4 giving him another chance, but if he's not willing 2 deal with a lot of people being angry about what he did, then I'd question whether he deserves it.

One thing though..(and this isn't in reply to you Micheal,) I don't really like the insinuations made about something far more heinous that hasn't been confessed and can't be talked about. I mean, if someone has some reason 2 believe something more sinister happened than what has been brought to light, but is prevented from discussing it here bcuz of confidentiality issues, then bring that up with Larry, but this talking about what can't be talked about stuff just gives me a headache.

I don't like my being made 2 feel like I should disagree with Larry's decision based on something I can know nothing about.

It's kinda like saying "Don't vote for Obama! I can't tell you why, but, boy if you only knew!" crazy





So true, but it's also like telling someone there's a fire, but not telling them "where!"

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#259199 - 10/31/08 01:15 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Stretch73]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Rich,

If your close to a fire you usually see and smell the smoke.
And unless you are with the fire department it's exact location is not important.
looky Lou's tend to get in the way.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#259207 - 10/31/08 02:07 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: michael banks
If your close to a fire you usually see and smell the smoke.
And unless you are with the fire department it's exact location is not important.
looky Lou's tend to get in the way.

I don't think I could have said it better.
Thanx, Mike.

My 2 cents:
** The 'powers-that-be' have decided to reinstate Chris. I learned trust their judgement in the past - they haven't changed - I trust them now.
** Whether or not I forgive, or speak to, Chris will remain between him and I.

Thanx again, Mike - for saying what I couldn't figure out how to say.

M


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#259296 - 10/31/08 09:28 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Rich,

If your close to a fire you usually see and smell the smoke.
And unless you are with the fire department it's exact location is not important.
looky Lou's tend to get in the way.

Mike


laugh ...nice! That was totally slick! cool smile


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My Story
My Art

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#259329 - 10/31/08 10:32 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: blueshift]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Oh well. I don't care anymore...whether the mods are all-knowing or not, whether they're right or not...I've lost what little trust I had here, regardless, so it doesn't matter...do whatever...and have fun....

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#259415 - 11/01/08 02:38 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Firstly, I'm wonder about what you said Chris:

Quote:
I feel horrible about all the support I got for an identity that didnít exist. I want to say that in many ways I was using it to talk about things that really were bothering me,...


So... what was real, what was sorta real, just some of the facts missing, and what was completely false??? I'd like to know what was going on for you with some of my interactions with you. We chatted about sexual preference stuff, your sort-of girlfriend, and just stuff like music you like, being sick at home, etc... Issues with older men, which I think must be real even if the details aren't...

As a fellow survivor, I can only wish you well. And I can understand how you did this. However, I'm feeling really sad about how I'm viewing the site now. And how badly was I deceived? And do I want to be here anymore if everything is suspect, and I fear being played with?

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir díun mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis nť pour te connaÓtre, Pour te nommer
Libertť

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#259744 - 11/02/08 06:06 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: LandOfShadow]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
One of the most important things I learned from Larry and my T while I was off the site was how tangled up the real Chris was in the figure of rehpotsirhcs. At first I was ashamed and confused and not really able to talk, but they helped me to say what I felt and talk about things that worry me.

The main thing was my Dad was dying. I couldn't stop that and I felt helpless and scared, mainly because none of my relatives came to help. I was alone. My natural father had abandoned us years before that and when I was 14 my Mom left too. When I say "Dad" I mean my step-dad. His name really was Clark and he really was a cool Dad. But I was losing him and when I was rehpotsirhcs it wasn't like that. He had a healthy step-dad and his Mom was still around, even if he didn't like her much. My room became a kind of refuge from the rest of the world. Everything I said about Dad is true. I miss him a lot.

I guess my sexual preference is straight. Sometimes Iím still confused about it, though. I feel like I don't have anything normal to refer to, so a lot of times I don't know what to think.

When we were talking I was sick at home with pneumonia and then when my Dad died I skipped more classes. I do have issues with older men, because my abusers were men. I also have issues with women, especially if they are in a position of power over me. I guess it reminds me of my mother. She doesn't love me and I don't love her. She lives 1000 miles away and we hardly ever speak. The things I said about her are true too.

And, what music do I like? I donít think I lied about that. I like most kinds of music (except for rap and country!). What I listen to in music depends on my mood at the timeÖ.

I had a girlfriend when I was 14 but that was a disaster. It was all about sex and it really made me feel bad. When I was talking about my girlfriend on the site, that's a real girl and I kind of like her.

I wasn't in an active abuse situation. One of my abusers when I was 6 was a man named Sam, so that's where it came from. Larry and my T helped me see that I wanted to be assured that if anything happened to me in school I could ask for help and get it. I still feel like everyone will figure me out and just do whatever they want, but that's also something I learned when I was little.

In chat I talked a lot about little things and with that I was being honest.

I only say these things to answer Allen's question, not to make excuses. I know what I did was wrong.

-Chris


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#259802 - 11/02/08 10:39 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Chris,

What the hell is a loberhead?

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#259807 - 11/02/08 11:20 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
Thomas J Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 83
Loc: Oklahoma
LOL i kinda was wonderin what that was 2. tj


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#259814 - 11/02/08 11:46 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: Thomas J]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1960
From the second post on this thread:

"The ModTeam is allowing me to come back in steps and I have to prove myself at every step. They have asked me to make an entirely new start and open a different account, and for this one I decided on the name Loberhead. I donít know what it means, but my Dad used to call me that and it made me feel good about being me when he did that. I know thatís one of the many things I have to work on."


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#259860 - 11/03/08 09:01 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: ericc]
loberhead Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 172
Yeah, it's something my Dad used to call me. Not in a mean way, he was always joking around when he said it. I can't find any references to it, so I think he just made it up. It's like a playful nick name.

I would come home from school and he would say, "Hey, Lobes!" This always put a smile on my face.


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#259869 - 11/03/08 10:36 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
.



Edited by ttoon (11/16/08 10:22 AM)
_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#259927 - 11/03/08 05:55 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: ttoon]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Chris,

I understand, I have such terms of endearment for my younger children too.
THanks for sharing that info.
Sorry for saying hell, hope you didn't take offense.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#260054 - 11/04/08 01:33 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: michael banks]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I'm dun beating u up now lober. Unless, of course u give me something new to beat u up 4, but I don't have the feeling u will.
Your being back means u are serious about working on yourself.

It's sad that you couldn't b yourself during that rough time with your father passing away. I think may b the way you hurt yourself by that has got buried in how you hurt others, but It's something 2 look at.

Though I look at each situation uniquely my policy about lying is generally this: I only lie to someone I know is completely nuts. If someone is too irrational to understand or be trusted with the truth, then tell them whatever produces a positive or at least less negative result. But unless I have good reason 2 believe otherwise I trust people 2 b rational and tell them the truth.

Not doing so defeats the purpose of communication as I'm sure you now know all 2 well.



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My Story
My Art

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#260176 - 11/05/08 01:37 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: blueshift]
Aidanchase Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 83
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Hello everyone

Lately a lot of blame has been tossed around and its because of heated emotions. This is an absolutely normal response to the feeling of being betrayed as some of you were. However this is also a great learning moment and a time to practice how to deal with our feelings.

I'll explain in a story.... because I like stories smile A child goes to a doctors office to get his regular vaccinations. When the doctor pokes him with the needle it hurts. Does the child blame the company or "group" associated with making the needle or does he get upset with the person who poked him with it? The answer is simple he gets upset with the doctor.

A recent event caused a lot of members to lose trust in a member and because of that a lot of talk has come up around not trusting the group that member is associated with I am of course talking about the younger survivors on the site. Just like in the story the young survivors did not poke anyone with the needle that member did.

I close with saying we have an excellent MOD team some with many years experience in this field and who practice Psychology as a profession. They have never lead this site in a direction that is not healthy for its population. This was a thought out decision and it gives everyone a chance to re build a relationship that I bet can be even stronger then it was before with this member. We all are here to change, some of us make bad choices, how can we turn this bad choice into a change for the better?

PS: glad your back and can continue to move forward on your journey chris



Edited by Aidanchase (11/05/08 01:43 PM)

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#260402 - 11/07/08 09:20 AM Re: reinstatement [Re: loberhead]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
OK. So, actually, I feel there was quite a bit of truth to you here before, just kind of displaced
in time. As for what we talked about. So, that's not so bad. I though so. Anyway, sounds like you're here to make your life better, so fine. Good luck to you.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir díun mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis nť pour te connaÓtre, Pour te nommer
Libertť

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#453777 - 11/15/13 12:41 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: roadrunner]
jas4159 Offline


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 278
ongradulations chris. you came clean and that is a credit to you. from my point of view i give you a lot of latitude becuase of your age and the loss of your dad.

i hope you have found what you are looking for.

rich

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com
_________________________
Thanks

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com

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#453798 - 11/15/13 02:47 PM Re: reinstatement [Re: roadrunner]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: NJ
Taking my toys, and heading home.


Edited by Castle (12/18/13 07:35 PM)
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My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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