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#256242 - 10/19/08 06:12 AM Too many to number
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
.


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#256278 - 10/19/08 11:20 AM Re: Too many to number [Re: MarkK]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Side door, eh? Another geographical cure? They usually work for a short time, might even make it a few months before you are right back in a worse spot then before. Where are you going but further and further away from the normal development of your peers? What you are denying yourself is a chance and maybe your best remaining chance to abandon your isolation, join the rest of us, and enjoy a more-normal life.

If I was you I would drive down by the seashore somewhere and watch the waves come in while the seabirds squauk and do some serious soul-searching. Figure-out what you want and what chances you are going to have to take to get there, and make a move in that direction. Look, it is only Sunday morning. You could be back there just after lunchtime and I'm sure that everyone there would welcome you back.

Is it now or never, Mark? Why don't you join Andy, Alan, and I in Denver sometime for crab legs and prime rib up in Blackhawk or the coin show in two weeks. As they say, no man is an island. It is a lot harder to get there by yourself. And, while you still have the chance for some benefit there, turn that thing around and head back to Kirkridge. You have a lot to lose if you give up, and a lot to gain if you take that chance.

Someday, you will be glad that you did.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#256339 - 10/19/08 05:04 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: Trucker51]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
hey Trucker. thanx for the response. actually - i ended up not leaving the retreat - just Saturday evening's workshop on shame busting. and i actually hung around for pictures today when it was all over. made a couple of contacts - added some support lines.

right now i just want to come home and get to my T asap. i don't know if i've ever felt this drained, empty, and full of dispair.

so i didn't "drop out of the course" - i just skipped one of the most important lessons - the one i needed to be involved in the most. but what else is new? self-sabotage is one of my specialties.

today was very dramatic and full of emotion. but i hung it out - and, like i said, have made some contacts that can help.

... i guess that makes me only half a drop out ....

M

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#256357 - 10/19/08 06:29 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: MarkK]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
Mark,

I'm proud of you~!
You made it to the finish!
I am glad you have some contacts for support as you "wind down" from a very emotional weekend.
Looking forward to seeing you at group.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#256364 - 10/19/08 06:46 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: KENKEN]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

You aren't a drop-out at all, not in any way. In the WoR it's always made clear that if a guy can't do something that's okay - and it is! It's perfectly understandable if you felt the shame-busting workshop was too much for you. It's okay if you can't do everything at once.

The important thing is that you stayed the course and got through it. You should be very proud of yourself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#256366 - 10/19/08 06:51 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: MarkK]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
You're not alone! I went to Sequoia last Spring... thought I could do it all. Started the shame busting... had to walk out.

Remember rule #1? it's about your safety, you need to feel safe, and it's ok to say no. That was an area where you didn't feel safe. The most important lesson was obviously NOT shame busting for you... it certainly was not for me. You are the only one that can determine what the most important lesson was for you. But I'm certain that as you look back at the weekend you will find it. The fact that you are walking away and feeling these feelings (the same feelings I felt the day I left) suggests to me that some form of healing took place.

I don't know... I feel compelled to share this with you. it might be nothing of use. But when I went to the WoR last Spring, it had to be one of the most difficult things I have ever experienced in my life. Since I was taught in my youth that showing emotion was wrong, and since I learned that emotion meant pain I have worked very hard to keep from showing any form of emotion. Then here I go to the WoR, and you are pushed into an environment that is shoving you face first into the most emotional pit you could ever experience. Every memory and emotion comes flooding back. I worked very hard to keep these emotions back, I refused to allow anyone see me express any form of emotion. There were many times, I guarantee you, that had I had a vehicle of my own I would have left, and the night of shame busting I just couldn't handle it any more, I walked out and was determined to walk out of the camp.

That sounds all dramatic, but the WoR are full of loving and caring people. The experience truly is about your healing. One of the facilitators recognized that I needed someone to talk to, and he kindly re-directed my walking path back to the central cabin.

The next morning, before we finalized things, I found a place to hide behind the water where I sat alone and cried in the cold for about an hour. It was all I could do to get myself back to the cabin, I was afraid someone would see that I had been crying, and I was so full of despair that I was afraid they'd do something that would make me start crying again..

Any way... I may be rambling, but I want you to know your experience is not uncommon. The WoR is one of the most difficult things I have ever done. But I will also tell you it's one of the most beautiful things I have ever done, and I have never regretted it.

Go to your T... and open your heart. He/she can help you make sense of all this.

Roofus


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#256380 - 10/19/08 08:22 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: Roofus]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Roofus, thanx. That's where i'm at. tears. so many many tears. closing was difficult. tonight is impossible. i don't fly home until tomorrow morning. won't see my T until Tuesday at the soonest, IF he has an opening.

Well, at least I have the full night - and my bear.

I dunno if I can handle this.


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#256444 - 10/20/08 04:59 AM Re: Too many to number [Re: MarkK]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Is your cup half full or half empty? My guess is that it is at least half full and there is a lot more in your cup than there was before you went there. Glad to hear that you made it though without quitting. Quit beating yourself up too, would be my advice. When you are ready, you can go for the mountaintop. I would try to get as close as possible before going there.

See you sometime back in Denver,

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#257028 - 10/22/08 06:32 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: Trucker51]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i have no glass
but if i did - you can bet it would be far more than just half empty

quit beating myself up - i honestly don't know how to do that. that's what i learned, it's what i do - it's what i know.

i have run out of ideas, am too tired to think - and i'm told i am being cruel to friends. i don't know. i only know i hurt.

facilitator at group last night said i looked like i had been hit by a Mack truck. in all seriousness - i think that would hurt less. this isn't physical aches or mental pains. this is .... soul. i don't know what to do. hang on until Friday when I see my T. not that it will help- but it's at least someone face to face, you know?


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#257218 - 10/23/08 03:16 PM Re: Too many to number [Re: MarkK]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
Great poem, Mark!

I write a whole lot of poetry, but I'm always envious of other poems and the people who write them. This particular poem says it all! Way to go!

Rich

_________________________
"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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