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#255808 - 10/17/08 02:10 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
0.001% wow -- and only 0.0003% against kids. Wow, that surprises even me.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#255810 - 10/17/08 02:17 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: AndyJB2005]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
HERE GOES ANGER!

First off, I never said I was neutral, I said that everything before hasn't been out of anger. I don't speak of them like they are human. They are less than whatever I am and I don't know that I am human, THAT IS FACT. I know the difference between individuals that have only had innapropriate thoughts and true pedophiles.

Two, DON'T EVER SAY THAT I HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH A PERP OR ASSUME THAT ANY ONE OF US DOES!

Now trying to be a little more civil...

Three, They have access to therapy like everyone else where they can explore themselves and recieve help, the code of ethics is that they will have problems if they are a danger to themselves or others just like everybody else. So if they come out with they have, are, or will be "hurting" a child they can expect somekind of action to be taken. Otherwise they are protected by confidentiality. No harm, no foul.

The "at risk" probably are better able to hold jobs, look normal, and carry on with other parts of their lives better than a lot of "us". Not even including the resources that are out there, especially for those who have not offended. Don't tell me that they have no where to go!!! Their fears of getting caught, spilling out that THEY HAVE victimized already, or innability to seek help is solely their responsibility... they have their reasons for hiding it!!!
They are selfish, of course they want to redeem themselves and go on with their lives.

Fourthly, You say their hurting a kid is "acting out" their feelings from not having support, etc. Way to belittle the victims, I'm not a product of someone "acting out". It takes planning, focus, desire, and evil to do what they do. Well they deserve a better life than "us" and it don't matter because "we" are just the mistakes they made in life, no biggie. Bullshit

Five, Okay, let 50yo Johnny be a teacher at your schools. There's an age when they grow out of hurting kids? At least a couple of mine were over 50.

six.
Originally Posted By: AndyJB2005
USMC,
why would young Johnny seek pre-offense help and support if he is deathly afraid of societal wrath and violence? If he watches TV and sees the worst-case scenarios on the news and the people getting more and more angry? If people think he is a lost cause and doomed from the start, it does not provide a lot of motivation to take the steps to NOT offend, does it?


So it's society's fault that we are too hard on them for what "they" have done to kids"? It's society's fault that we tell them IF they do this stuff they will get in trouble? So we are blamed for their cowardice? I need to be someone who is suppose to encourage them?

Lastly, You trust the folks you work with and you expect us to also. You do not know without faultless certainty that they are not "active". You don't see everything that they do and think but you honor their word and check lists or other things you require so that they can make you feel better about them. If they pass your tests then they're good. Everybody accept them, they have credentials that say they won't hurt another child. You say pretty much all of them go on to not hurt anybody else but you don't really know because you are not one of them.

Maybe the gene that causes them is next to the one that "makes" folks gay because we all know we can "fix" that right? (No offense just making a point, you gents don't need to be "fixed") Why can't you accept that they just are?

Back to anger, thought I was done

ADULT PEDOPHILES ARE ALL THE SAME!!! THEY ALL HAVE HURT KIDS!!! It is realistic to keep them from kids indefinately, just something you don't believe. It's somekind of punishment to keep them from kids? Yes! Taking away "toys" they don't know how to treat properly!

Holloween is coming up, do you have a statistic on how many perps go out desquised? Include both the ones registered and the ones who failed to register, the one's that haven't been caught in order to have a criminal record are extra credit.



_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#255826 - 10/17/08 03:56 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: usmc97]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: usmc97
DON'T EVER SAY THAT I HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH A PERP OR ASSUME THAT ANY ONE OF US DOES!


I suggest you use this indignation to try to understand how another survivor might feel at the implication of being a perp sympathizer. There is a big difference between supporting rehabilitation and being a perp sympathizer. You may not see it, but I do.


_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#255837 - 10/17/08 05:10 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: blueshift]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Okay, we're going to have to agree to disagree, I guess. Which is too bad because I enjoy learning from other people, but I need a two way street, as well.

I'm very sorry that we see things so differently and that it seems my points are lost on you. I see your point of view very clearly, and I can relate very much to what you say and feel, but I just do not agree with some major aspects. If that makes me an evil person, I'm sorry. If helping children this way makes me a perp sympathizer, I guess I'll have to take that lump.

I don't think I can change your view of me or the world anyway, so I won't bother anymore.

I hope sometime the bigger picture will be revealed and the pinhole expanded.

Something that someone said really sticks with me from this thread, and if this is all I take from this exchange I will still be happy. smile

Quote:
There was a man in a chinese prison for being a buddist monk. Being interviewed after his release he was asked if he was scared. He said that he was one time during one of his many beatings, he almost lost his compassion for his captors. [...] Pete


This is how I feel about my dad/abuser and the ones I've worked with. I'm sorry if that makes me evil to you, but I feel it doesn't.

I don't have to love what any person, perp or not, has done to love them as a whole person.


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#255856 - 10/17/08 07:30 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: AndyJB2005]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I never said that you were evil.

I never said that you were a "sympathizer".

I am not close minded, I am strict with the issue of "them" because it is not like any other issue.

I honestly don't understand at all how much faith you have in them.

I am at odds with you in how you have tried to turn things around with me at each instant. Because you may have somekind of official "clinical" training you feel it's right to treat me like I'm an idiot and don't know anything with all I've gone through, my experience, and my education. It would not matter to me if you were some world renowned doctor spitting out statistics. I have not fit what those people seem to know so much about, this stuff is the only proof I exist SO I SPEAK. Your experience is different than mine and you seem oblivious to what is outside the confines of the walls you work in just like a lot of "professionals". Your trust in them I can not comprehend. You would only be satisfied with me if I became tolerant and that is not something I can do because as long as they have opportunities to be a danger they will stay a danger. I said nothing but to take that opportunity away. You never answered why they need to have the ability to be around kids in order for them to have a life anyway. I answered everything directed at me.

You explain things like "they" were only involved in car accidents of varying degrees where they can be repaired at our expense while some of us are totaled. They can go out with the possibility of totaling more children, something you and your colleagues can't guarantee.

In order to understand "them" you would have to understand someone like me because I seem to be the polar opposite. You could be treating one of my perps and never know it because you believe they can come to a point where they can be reformed and deserve another chance with no mention of their responsibilities to their victims. All of the individuals that hurt me can't all be in the minority you say I talk about.

It's not like I get support on here through pm's or anything rooting me on. I say things because they need to be said and if I'm the only one I never really fit here anyway. There's a reason everybody is not a monk. I sure never want to be one.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#255879 - 10/17/08 09:12 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: usmc97]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
For anyone interested in more on offender treatment and over coming abusing behaviors, I suggest the book "Not Monsters: Analyzing the Stories of Child Molesters."

The author, Pamela D. Schultz, is a victim of CSA abuse herself, and in search of insights, her book documents the stories of nine convicted child molesters through one-on-one interviews, listening to what offenders have to say about their crimes and exploring the roots of these behaviors from a social constructionist perspective. Their words paint a compelling and frightening portrait of how sexual abuse works in Western culture to perpetuate a political and social system of dominance and control.

In "Not Monsters" she writes,

Quote:
"Spending time with these men has taught me a lot, not only about them, but about The Man who Molested Me. Oddly enough, the more I've come to understand his weakness, lack of character, and warped value system that gave him permission to molest me, the easier it's been to forgive him. I know now that he was trapped in his own web of deceit and inner angst, woven from a pattern that was probably passed down from generation to generation. There's no excuse for what he did to me, but there were reasons for it. Understanding the reasons has given me a measure of peace.

[...]

Hold these men in contempt for their willingness to give into their darkest impulses. Condemn them for being weak, violent, impulsive, or cruel. But remember the children that they once were and the lessons they learned that shaped their adulthood. Try to imagine what can be done to keep other children from growing up to become just like them."


I couldn't agree more with her. I recommend this read for anyone interested in CSA and/or offender recovery.


_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#255883 - 10/17/08 09:22 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: AndyJB2005]
lungfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: nowhere special nj
Thanks Andy for the quote. That is something I knew but it was easier to read than think about, if that makes sense. Although my anger sometimes gets the best of me, I am endlessly thankful that there are people like you and others that are doing the work that could save kids from what we went through. peace pete

_________________________
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson

Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like to be taught. -Sir Winston Churchill

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#255896 - 10/17/08 10:55 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: AndyJB2005]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
I remember a time early in my recovery when my mother told me via IM that the number one perp had died (she had no idea that I had ever been abused at that time). I was home alone and pumped my fist in the air yelling "Yes, Yes, YES!!!" I was jubilant.

Now, five years later, I can truly identify with the thought:

Quote:
Hold these men in contempt for their willingness to give into their darkest impulses. Condemn them for being weak, violent, impulsive, or cruel. But remember the children that they once were and the lessons they learned that shaped their adulthood. Try to imagine what can be done to keep other children from growing up to become just like them."

The point is that yes, all of us are not likely to see this issue in the same exact light or from the same point of view. Part of that is the dynamic that Michael mentioned in his well thought out post. Another part is that we're not all at the same place in our recovery as others are. It may be quite possible that all of us are not even headed to the same recovery destination. We're all survivors, and none of us are "Less" than the rest of us because of where we are on the journey. It is what it is after all, and above all we're brothers.

Thank-you to each of you for sharing yourselves in this thread. Your passion on this issue is understandable and I've learned much. No one says we have to agree as long as we continue to love.

Thanks for allowing me to share just a little of myself as well.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#256086 - 10/18/08 01:53 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: WalkingSouth]
sunwolf Offline


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
I was the 1st one who posted this question...after reading all the posts here ..I have a better picture of the problem...I will do more research about this in other web sites and books...I been considering in going back to college to do a Master or PhD in counsellig or psychology...I am interetsted in trying to deal and heal both sides..peprs and victims..am not sure if I can..but I think is worth trying to prevent further abuse..there is a website called "generation five" they trying to stop child abuse with prevention...thank you for all the posts..


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#256121 - 10/18/08 03:17 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: sunwolf]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Thanks for posing this question sunwolf!

This has been an incredibly powerful thread. I'm proud that we were able to have this conversation. It shows that survivors can be passionate about our positions, but in the end, know we are brothers in recovery and can look towards the future together and continue our recovery.

Peace and love to you all...

Michael


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