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#255390 - 10/15/08 11:27 AM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: roadrunner]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
From someone who has purposely stayed out of this debate - POINT WELL MADE, Larry

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My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#255394 - 10/15/08 11:43 AM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: roadrunner]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
But let's focus on the dialogue aspect of the discussion


Can we expand on this a bit?

For the purpose of dialogue, when someone (other than a Mod) makes statements speaking for other people here (including quotes)
& groups of people (look at the original thread title) we shouldn't take it personally.

How else should we take it?

There's a great picture of cauliflower sheep in the "Don't play with your food" thread on the member's side.

"baaaaaa"

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:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#255404 - 10/15/08 12:53 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: ineffable]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
My whole thing is the assumption that predators are in the same catagory as "us". That the ones who were abuse as kids are some kind of hybrid of "us" and "them" and the theories that give excuse or leiniency to their behaviors.

How does a victim of any crime take to being looked at as comparible to the offending party? Professionals that work with both predators and their victims can get jaded to what they do just because of them wanting to help everybody.

There is no connection in that the abuser was abused and the assumption that they are still one of "us", "they" can't be both, "they" are not our peers. A HUGE SO WHAT to what was done to them and a HELLO to what they have done!!!! They hurt a kid and that changes everything. There are plenty of people in the world who have innapropriate thinking but the majority of those people seek ways to control themselves so that they are not a danger.

I don't see it as an opinion because I am not a predator and I am not closely related to being a one in ANY way, should I accept being told that I'm one missing link away just because some see hope in "fixing" a predator? At what point in their "recovery" is it safe for them to be with children? If someone is willing to put kids in danger to try to find that out they have whole other set of ethical issues. That is why it is impossible to say that a perp can be reformed. They can only be controlled, trained, and supervised.


_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#255405 - 10/15/08 01:05 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: usmc97]
sunwolf Offline


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
usmc97...i can agree with you in many parts of your post , but what I am concerned is how can we prevent it form hapening? controlled etc is after the fact...we need prevention as much as we can...



Edited by sunwolf (10/15/08 01:08 PM)

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#255433 - 10/15/08 03:20 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: sunwolf]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
With kids who show signs of developing into predators it should be addressed in there therapy sessions by their respective professionals. They should know where to find the resources they need but in the end, sad to say, you can only deter them from going the wrong route in life. I'd say they'd need constant supervision, education, and accountability.

On the adult aspect.... "At risk" individuals need to come forward prior to offending. I don't say that they intend to think the way that they do, they just do. There is a minority of them who do make every effort to not offend which the things I've stated would help in supporting them in that aspect.

There are resources for those who have innapropriate thoughts and feelings toward kids. It's a responsibility on their part to seek help not for "us" to hold there hand and be accepting of their "faults". It's a big lie that they don't have anywhere to go.

There are resources where they are educated to every aspect of what they are capable of inflicting on another person and prevention but that all lies on there responsibility. I can't trust a person like that to take care of themself so I call for enforcement of those prevention techniques. What's wrong with that?. "It encringes on their human rights and privacy".... there's a bigger priority for the safety of the masses of children out there.

If someone on the outside wants to be proactive you really do have to treat a lot of them like predatory animals though, by setting traps to catch them like they've done with sting operations that have taken place state to state. Those ones that get caught are always going to say it was their first time. They have a predatory instinct to seek and get what they want. If you sat in on an offender class you can tell how many are really there because they are battling it versus those who don't give a @%$@!

Prevention is translating to control here and that is just not realistic or my plans would be utilized. You can't force them to come forward prior to, it's voluntary by them. To the brave few that do to seek help, I'd congradulate and give support... from a distance being me but I don't have anything against them until they disregard their responsibility or offend including those that were hurt as kids themselves. Once they do onto others they are no longer a "survivor" or a victim. THEY have chosen THEIR identity, it's not that we have labled them.


_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#255450 - 10/15/08 04:56 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: usmc97]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Excellent!

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#255452 - 10/15/08 05:07 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: reality2k4]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I've known several who've taken responsibility for themselves and what they did, but what I say is being ignored by most here so forget it....hear what you all wanna hear and enjoy ....

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Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#255465 - 10/15/08 05:58 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: sunwolf]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
...and your suggestions are :

1)..........
2)..........
3).........., etc.

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#255480 - 10/15/08 07:25 PM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: usmc97]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I posted here and then decided I was tired of the debate so please disregard.







Edited by blueshift (10/16/08 01:23 AM)
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#255547 - 10/16/08 01:37 AM Re: survivors and sex offenders... [Re: blueshift]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
My take on accountability is a strict conformity to discipline. I was trying to use the term for lack of a better word. The purpose is the continual attatchment of burden to be held upon the individual by utilizing strict enforcement.

In this case it is set to a specific kind of people who need constant oversight with no room for leiniancy. Any of them who believe they can handle it on their own are probably among the most dangerous. For offenders this would have already been proven true.

The parameters are set and there would be zero tolarance for not living up to the requirements set before them. Pass or fail on each aspect to where every failure to comply results in a corresponding punishment and constriction to their daily living.

For someone who DOES have a lot of self control and humility it would barely phase their daily living because they would already be living up to that standard. The requirements are attainable and structured to the betterment of the individual and safety of the public.

It's very doable, different than a military life but kind of built around the same ideals where there is a clear standard of conformity.

The burden should not be on "us" the victimized. This is prevention.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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