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#255011 - 10/13/08 10:09 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: ChristineTrying]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Many times we have been taken by the hand and lead to the place where the abuse would happen. It could be bringing back deep memorys.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#255020 - 10/13/08 10:58 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: Muldoon]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Dear Brokenhearted,

I haven't much to add to the previous posts except to observe that hand holding can be a very intimate act. And it generally has more meaning than simple casual, affectionate contact for CSA survivors.

C.

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C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

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#255038 - 10/14/08 12:32 AM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: cstjude]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Wow, you all are really helping me on this. I never knew it could be such a big, and common, issue. It's the same here = no talking or saying "I love you" during intimacy (that I can remember-it's been a while now). He hated talking and did not want to say my name or say "I love you" back to me.

I love him but wonder how much more I can stand too. I wish I didn't need anything, like touch or reciprocity or conversation, or eye contact or snuggling or companionship. I have none of these things and so we'll see. I don't know what he feels when I try to hold his hand, but I feel emotional pain constantly due to this terrible lack of closeness.

Thank you for helping me to understand. I would go crazy without you all.

I'm ready for some changes, either w/ him or not. I just don't want to live the rest of my life alone in a marriage. It hurts too much. He's given no sign still of seeking help or just wanting to understand what's going on. I think 2009 may see us separate at least.

I hope he'll decide to seek answers some day. I can't imagine not being able to do ordinary normal things and not even want to find out what's wrong! I want so much for us to make it through but after so long it's looking pretty bad.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#255057 - 10/14/08 03:18 AM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: Brokenhearted]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Dear Brokenhearted,

You are being realistic about what you need. That is important. Your needs and his are mis-aligned right now. One of the best things I did to help me understand my loved one was to seek my own therapy sessions with someone I felt comfortable with. It was tremendously empowering. I always felt helpless when it came to his emotional damage. Seeking support for myself helped me to lay claim to my view that my needs were not "selfish" or "unreasonable" but healthy common. I no longer felt helpless and powerless - I had power over my own reactions and choices!

None of this means you will love him less. It does mean you will be able to establish healthy boundaries between you and his abuse history. It also means you will be able to maintain perspective as you make these major life choices that are before you.

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

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#255229 - 10/14/08 08:56 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: cstjude]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Chiming in.

Holding hand's or kissing is waaaaaay more intimate to me than having sex

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#255268 - 10/14/08 10:24 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: mogigo]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
cstjude,

I think you are right about maintaining perspective. We are separate individuals and I've been orbiting him for too long, trying to be a part of his life. It's finally time to live my life too, whatever that means. I am glad that therapy was empowering for you. I myself am enjoying learning through therapy why I am the way I am.... it is not as painful as I thought it would be, and it sure clears up things. It gives me answers I've wondered about for so long. My new therapist is especially helpful.

and Mike, wow, your comment really stunned me - I never thought holding hands could ever be an intimate thing. I guess when sex is threatening, holding hands is nicer, definitely, and better. I understand now that maybe that is why it's a big deal right now. Like in "Pretty Woman" where she won't kiss because it's too intimate, but she'll have sex w/ you for money. It makes sense. But to us un-sexually abused people, it seems so crazy.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#255274 - 10/14/08 10:39 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: Brokenhearted]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
wink
Quote:
Like in "Pretty Woman" where she won't kiss because it's too intimate, but she'll have sex w/ you for money. It makes sense. But to us un-sexually abused people, it seems so crazy.


Holding hands and kissing means "I want more" sex means "it's just an act"

It means I will give my soul to you.

Isn't that the problem with us survivor's, giving our soul?. That means my soulmate know's everything.

That's the whole problem SO's, how can you love us when you know EVERYTHING!!!

BUT.......it also speaks to how much it's not you.

How close did we get to telling you everything, pretty damn close if you're here, my Friends and family.

Patience


Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#255413 - 10/15/08 02:14 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: mogigo]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
How can we love you when we know everything? We already know everything whether you know it or not. Most of us are still there with our man and although I won't be there soon, it doesn't mean that I never loved him or that I'm leaving because I do 'know everything'.

Just like his life is his life, my life is mine. Why should I have to suffer the rest of mine just to give him someone to have around yet not totally be with.

And yeah, right now, sex sounds pretty good...even if it's just an act.

I don't mean to pick on you mogigo, or any other man or woman but doggone it, I'm just lost and I was never lost until recently.


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#255466 - 10/15/08 06:04 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: ChristineTrying]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
I have to agree with Mogigo on the hand holding and the kissing. I think kissing,hugging,hand holding is far more intimate, and do not think that the act of sex alone is intimate. My H disagrees with me. To me to be intimate sexually,it is not about the act. It is about the emotions, the level of connectedness, the physical affection, like kissing involved. I must have deep feelings for the person I am with. It brings to me the "act" to a whole new level. This is one area, that my H does not have to many problems with, he is affectionate, and does hold my hand. He was however for many years, completely SILENT.

also Mogigo, you ask how can we love you if we know everything. I think that because I look at sex as something not necessarily intimate, that I do not view what happened as "making love" that I clearly just view it as a physical assualt on my H's young body, and not anything more. If I choose to leave someday, it is not because of the crimes done to his body, it is because he was unwilling to see the pain that HIS words and actions have done to me and my self esteem.

Lastly, now that you all have brought up the kissing and handholding, it has freaked me out a bit. Since I view it as a very intimate act, I think I would literally be sick to find out that my H was subjected to that by his perp brother, this is something I never want to know.

NYDAISY



Edited by NY Daisy (10/15/08 06:06 PM)

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#255483 - 10/15/08 07:30 PM Re: Survivors: Inability even to just hold hands? [Re: NY Daisy]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
The most emotionally charged thing a lover ever did in bed was reach out and clutch my hand.

We communicate so much with our hands. So do abusers. There's a reason why "manipulate" means to guide with one's hands (latin manipulus).

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

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