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#243234 - 08/08/08 02:39 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: NY Daisy]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Love you Daisy \:\) \:\)

Quote:
Lastly, I think that when someone says their partner deserves better than them, I don't think they love their partner more, it is a cop out, so they don't have to deal with their real feelings, whatever they may be.



I would give anything for a partner like you.

Absolutely it's a cop out Daisy, it's an attempt once again to not deal with "ANYTHING"

I never once inferred to you that you're love is conditional, I only tried to make the point that "maybe" just maybe, all love is conditional to you're H. It wasn't an attack or an observation of you're love. It was only to try and point out his warped thinking of what love is. I am completely aware of how fucked up our thinking is, but then, I DO keep on thinking it.

I wrote in the idea of how wrong you're H is, not in how pure you're love is.

My attempt at posting was for you to get an idea of you're H, in no way was it an attempt at questioning you.

Once again Daisy, I can only wish that I had a partner as loving and understanding as you.

Don't ever question what I've said Daisy, I know more than anyone what a gift you are to a survivor.

You are my hero and my dream

Loving you so much Daisy

Stay strong
Mike

ps: don't scare me away now daisy, I couldn't possibly handle hurting a partner in my attempt for you to understand us. Please don't ever personalize what I say.



Edited by mogigo (08/08/08 02:43 PM)
_________________________
Thriving

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#243235 - 08/08/08 02:48 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: mogigo]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I'm going to add to what Mike said. I don't think that statement is a cop-out. To the contrary, I think it's a statement from someone who doesn't understand what love is....from someone who has never been loved uncoditionally by the people important in his life, and now has no idea what it means when you tell him you love him unconditionally.

I've often said that the spouses of survivors oftentimes have just as difficult of a road to follow as the survivors themselves. I wholeheartedly believe that. But, I must also add that anyone who is "copping out" of dealing with his abuse is not a survivor.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#243247 - 08/08/08 03:30 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: BJK]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Mogigo,

It would take ALOT more than that to scare me away. I love listening to other people's opinions, hearing their side of things. That's how we all learn and grow. However, I also love to challenge someone, I like the banter back and forth, and all the new possibilities and views that come from that. I drive my H crazy with that, "your making me think to much." LOL It can be over anything, we've had serious dicussions on things like socks.

I wasn't sure what exactly you meant by that, so I just went with gut, and answered with that.

I think you are right about my H. Love to him always had strings attached. He always felt that to be loved you had to do something to earn it. So he was always the guy, helping out everyone, even when he didn't want to, and if he asked me to do something for him, and I got side tracked by one of the kids or something, he would be crushed, like I just told him his gold fish died.

I could never understand it until one night we were talking about love, and I told him, that I loved him unconditionally. He told me that was impossible. WHAT?????? He said no one can love anyone else unconditionally, period. I said I loved the kids that way, he said that was different. I thought he was so wrong. I love the kids and you, more than anything else. You all belong to me in my heart, someday the kids will go, but my love for them stays, some day you may go ,but the love stays. You have half, thay have the other have.

He was not getting it. He says to me, so If I don't feel like mowing the lawn or taking out the garbage you will still love me? I of course thought this was silly,but he was serious, so I said of course, why would I not. So if I just came home at night, and put my feet up, and watched T.V. you would still love me? YES,YES,YES, I love you because of how you make me feel, not for what you do, you put those demands on your self, not me.

I always thought he had a TYPE A personality, it turns out he felt he always needed to be on, so that people would like ,need, and love him.

He relaxes alot more now. So I do see your point.

Continue to challenge me, I love it, NYDAISY


P.S. he said he could not love me unconditionally at that point, but would work on trying to make it happen. I told him no worries, I know he cares about me, or the good times wouldn't work out as well as they do. Just my thought.LOL


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#243248 - 08/08/08 03:38 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: NY Daisy]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
BJK, I stand by my feeling it is a cop out. You men are very tricky, and when a subject comes up that you would not like to deal with, you throw in a decoy, to take the focus off the real issue at hand.

It is just a thought, (MOGIGO I WILL BE STEALING YOUR LINE NOW FOREVER, SO LOOK FOR IT IN A POST NEAR YOU,LOL) but isn't this a coping skill learned long,long, ago?

You are right though, it is said by someone who has no idea what love is. With help from a loving partner, it can be learned.

Warmly, NYDAISY


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#243249 - 08/08/08 03:39 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: NY Daisy]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
BJK, you were my 100th post. Thanks for that. NYDAISY


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#243253 - 08/08/08 03:59 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: NY Daisy]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Loving someone unconditionally and staying with someone without conditions are two very different things. I will love my b/f forever, but he will not remain my b/f if certain conditions aren't met. No cheating; no lying; no hitting - work with me every now and again; if you can't go to the party, don't give me grief because I want to and a multitude of other things. Every relationship has conditions attached to it.

Part of the problem in my own relationship is that while my b/f understands perfectly what my conditions are and why I have them, he doesn’t seem to have many at all. For instance, he’s told me that if I cheated on him, he’d understand and be OK with it. In his mind, he (1) deserves it and (2) he doesn’t expect me not to. Quite honestly, that infuriates me! I believe that everyone can and should have expectations of the one they are married to/involved with. If we didn’t then just any old someone would do. It’s the ones we believe will meet our needs and expectations that we choose.

Daisy, I understand what your saying here:

Quote:
Lastly, I think that when someone says their partner deserves better than them, I don't think they love their partner more, it is a cop out, so they don't have to deal with their real feelings, whatever they may be.


I don’t see it as a cop out only because “cop out” to me denotes a conscious decision. The shutting down of feelings was a necessary survival tool at the time which has sadly morphed into a learned instinct over which there is little to no control. With therapy and time, that learned behavior can be undone. I believe that with all my heart. Sadly though it has become almost as instinctual as breathing so changing it is an arduous task.


ROCK ON.........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#243259 - 08/08/08 04:43 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: Trish4850]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Sigh Trish, just sigh, there should be millions of you

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#243282 - 08/08/08 07:27 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: mogigo]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Exactly, well said Trish, well said


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#243283 - 08/08/08 07:33 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: NY Daisy]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
If a survivor doesn't really know what love is, how is that so many survivors seem to have found great partners? We aren't stupid people nor are we desperate. We are with our survivors because AT SOME POINT, they did understand what love was and in fact, returned it. Why has that changed?

So I agree that it is a cop-out. No disrespect meant, I just don't believe it. I think it is too easy to say, "You deserve someone better" so that it doesn't hurt as much when the person actually acts on it.

Just my two cents.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#243293 - 08/08/08 08:30 PM Re: He thinks love is a feeling [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
June,

I can only speak from my personal experience, so take it for what it's worth. When I met my b/f he was not looking for a long term relationship, just a few dates and some company with the opposite sex. Quite honestly that's all I was looking for as well. Everything was supposed to stay loose and easy. Within 2 months though, I threw that out the window. This wonderful man opened doors for me, always walked me to my door, brought me flowers, called every day, he was my date for a co-worker's wedding, he met my family, he met my daughter, which was huge. In every way I could imagine, he was my gallant knight on a white horse! I fell hard which if you knew me would blow your mind - I don't do that. Responsible, practical and self sufficient is who I am. I didn't NEED a man nor was I looking for one to take up residence in my heart, but that's what happened.

Fast forward 4 years and the lid blows off my perfect little world. The man I knew was Dr. Jekyl but Mr. Hyde came out whenever I wasn't around. We - I went through hell. Why on earth would he lead me to believe he loved me and then be able to do what he did? How is it that Ms. Practical didn't see? I've come to learn that he, and probably many survivors, are perfect mimics. In my b/f's case, he knew, from observation, the right things to say and do in any given situation. He molded the perfect man for the outside world to see. I was just another one who got the gold treatment; he saved the dirt for the others, where he believed he should really live. The real problem came when I left the outside and got close. Then I became not only dangerous to him and everything he thought he knew about people, but he saw me as being in danger from him. He believed himself to be a terrible, depraved person who had no right to pollute my perfect world. He was right in many respects - he had no right at all to do what he did and to rock my world so horribly. He's sorry for that. Sorrier that any human being I've ever seen. After a tortuous few weeks, we got back together but it was so hard. He couldn't believe I would accept him back, I was having a hard time believing it myself. But you know what? I just could not wrap my head around the fact that the "bad" J was the true one. Everything I knew of him told me otherwise. Yes, this dark side existed and I hated it but I learned why.

He's in therapy to excise the demons. He trusts me more than anyone in his life; he's told me that and so has his T but in spite of that, in spite of it now being 7 years together (this month actually) he still can't understand why I'm with him because he believes I could and should have so much better. He believes this to his core. I tell him I do deserve better, not a better man, I've got the best one in the world as far as I'm concerned, but I do deserve a happier, more at peace man and since he's working so hard on doing that for himself, I'll stick around and wait for him.

I got to writing and couldn't stop so I don't even know if I answered your question but it might be in there some place. Sorry.

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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