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#252207 - 09/30/08 09:39 PM Is recovery taboo here?
Tinman Offline


Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 359
Loc: Lake Forest, CA
You know, I am still working through my recovery, but I have made progress. I am not the same man I was four years ago.

But what I find here, repeatedly, is what I interperet as a sense of resentment and/or hopelessness.

What I try to share here is my experience, strength and hope. And also the frailties I still face.

Encouragement is fine and necessary. But why is achievement or progress making others feel even worse when what I am trying to do is encourage?

Because I WAS THAT HOPELESS MAN when this started and for many months afterward. But it was men and women who had made progress that encouraged me to keep fighting.

I want others to find what I have and what I will find as I continue my journey.

Many here have supported my stance that recovery is possible and not some pipe dream. But it frustrates me that I somehow seem to make others feel even more hopeless when I am trying to give hope.

Thank you for letting me vent about this.

Paul

_________________________
Tinman
"I finally have my heart!"

To the perps: Don't worry about me coming after you. But you damn well better watch out for God! "Vengeance is mine", saith the Lord

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#252221 - 09/30/08 10:19 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Tinman]
John Oarc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
I'm not sure what has taken place to make you feel your post are hurting others but for me I am happy for you and love stories about success.

It does prove there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Keep on keeping on,

Maybe we should open a new forum for success stories so people don't have to feel as if they are bragging or going to make others feel bad.

What do you think?

Your brother in recovery,

John O

_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#252224 - 09/30/08 10:45 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: John Oarc]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Paul,

You are a source of inspiration. Never give that up!

Quote:
Encouragement is fine and necessary. But why is achievement or progress making others feel even worse when what I am trying to do is encourage?

I know what you mean Paul, but I think your answer was in your post.
Quote:
Because I WAS THAT HOPELESS MAN when this started and for many months afterward.

During that time, did you read books about recovery and believe that it wouldn't work for you? During that time, did you hear encouraging things, positive things about yourself that you just didn't believe or even felt patronized by the person giving you the compliment? Didn't it take lots of encouragement, determination, and courage that built up over a long period of time for you to take that first step and really be ready to do the work in the correct frame of mind so you can make real progress on recovery?

Remember, some members are still in this stage and they need lots and lots of encouragement to proceed with their recovery. There are lots of individuals on this site that may not have access to a therapist, or have a therapist that isn't really qualified to be treating them. They could be discouraged by the lack of progress or just their current situation with job, housing, relationships, etc.

Don't take it personally! Just keep reaching out and they will grab hold when they are ready and able.

John's got a good idea. We have a Survivor Stories forum, maybe we should have a Success Stories forum where we can post the who we are now story. Survivors and Thrivers!! I think even survivors need to hear from the thrivers to keep us motivated to reach for greater levels of recovery.

Peace and love Paul. And as John said, "Keep on keeping on."

Michael


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#252259 - 10/01/08 12:48 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Tinman]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Originally Posted By: Tinman
Many here have supported my stance that recovery is possible and not some pipe dream. But it frustrates me that I somehow seem to make others feel even more hopeless when I am trying to give hope.

Paul,

I understand your question and the reason's you ask it. On the whole I've considered your postings to be well thought out and quite supportive. I wonder if you or those who read your posts have thought about the fact that in the end everyone is responsible for their own feelings. You can only have an impact on others feelings if they allow you that hold on said feelings.

For instance, if you came in here trashing someone all that says is that you are not doing well, and no one should have to own those feelings you are expressing. Don't get me wrong, a person has an obligation as a member of this community to act with consideration of others, but if you act badly toward someone that says nothing about anyone but you.

On the other hand, if you're being supportive of someone in a post and they take it badly does that say anything about you, or is it more of an indication where they are in their recovery and their ability to "hear" what you're saying?

What I'm trying to say (and doing it badly) is that part of recovery is getting to the place where one is secure in who he is so that things said or done by others cannot shake a person. And sure, we should always take on board what we see and hear, examine it to see if it's applicable, keep what is, and disregard what isn't. That's part of being a good citizen. Likewise it is our responsibility to do the same when we're about to speak out on a given issue.

I think Eleanor Roosevelt said it best: “Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.”

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#252299 - 10/01/08 07:47 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: WalkingSouth]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
yea paul, take what you need and leave the rest.

and john, your quote reminds me of another one: 'you can only be a doormat if you lie down'. what does that have to do with anything. who knows? it's up for personal interpretation, and isn't that what is at the heart of the matter here?

when i type stuff into these forums, i am trying to give my best service to a fellow victim/survivor, but at the same time i'm doing it for my own benefit as much anyone else's i guess, if i'm honest that is.

if someone gets something out of i share then that's great, if not, that's ok too.

i hope everyone finds a way to smooth out a wrinkle today,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#252301 - 10/01/08 08:08 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Sans Logos]
Ken Followell Offline
President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 987
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Paul,

Recovery is very possible. I am at the stage in my recovery were I know that I am well and there are still things that occur that remind me that I am always someone who had been abused. That does not mean that I am not happy and healthy, it is just that I react to situations as someone with a history of abuse.

Good news is that those reactions no longer define who I am nor limit my life. Bad news is that recovery is a work in progress. I now love the work required because I see the strength I have that has been developed by all that I have been through.

I just went to the Alta Weekend of Recovery, which was my 9th weekend. Not becuase I was fragile and needed to get stable, I went becuase I am looking for ways to have even more joy in my life. I can truly say my life is good and I want more of the good stuff.

Keep moving ahead with your recovery and sharing your progress. Just know that for some it is hard to imagine ever getting there. But a full, happy and joyous life really is possible for all of us. If I can do it so can anyone else.

I am so glad to have all my brothers here on the journey with me. You continue to inspire and encourage not to settle for Ok when exceptional is possible.

_________________________
Ken Followell

Everything works out right in the end. If things are not working right, it isn't the end yet. Don't let it bother you, relax and keep on goin
- Michael C. Muhammad

"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."
� Rabbi Hillel

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#252315 - 10/01/08 09:19 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Ken Followell]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I like the idea of a forum for Success Stories. As I am writing this though I am thinking why not just include them in the Survivor Stories forum? It is all part of our stories. They would not have to be just big successes either. What about all the little successes we have had along the way? Just some random thoughts this morning.

Dale


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#252336 - 10/01/08 11:25 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Elad 12]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
That thought crossed my mind too Dale. It really is part of our stories, that's why I continued mine into the aftermath because even once the abuser stops, the abuse doesn't really end because we continue it. But recovery is the next part of the story. Makes sense.

The only draw back I could find is if someone came here and was unable to deal with reading other's childhood stories, would we be good about indicating in the subject line which is which so they wouldn't accidentally read something they were trying to avoid. I know I would probably direct people to those stories frequently, but wouldn't want to traumatize someone more by having them read something they weren't ready for yet.

Which ever way it gets implemented, I really think we should start a movement of people posting their success stories. That really was a brilliant idea John!

Peace and love everyone...

Michael


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#252339 - 10/01/08 11:33 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: M3]
sunwolf Offline


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
Every one's story is different...but there is help for all abused people...sometimes it might be harder, others not so hard...it depends on the type of abuse and the perps...as well as the victim...I am struggling to get better and healed..its a long journey...but I am not ready to give up!!!


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#252369 - 10/01/08 01:19 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Tinman]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Paul,

Recovery is possible! I started over ten years ago around my 50th birthday. I'm so much healthier mentally than I was then (physically, that's another situation!). I'm sure that some don't want to see how far others have progressed because they might think that it's just another failure on their part. I rejoice in the success of my fellow survivors here on MS, they lift me up when I'm down and help me realize how far I've come when I read of their struggles. I just hope to inform them on how I dealt with my struggles so that they too will have hope and progress through it. I hope that relating how someone has dealt with problems in the past is not seen as boasting but as encouraging; instilling in them the knowledge and confidence that it can be overcome.

Take good care of yourself,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#252412 - 10/01/08 04:55 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Stephen_5]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
There is hope in recovery, but please don't expect an overwhelming support here.
Why?
Because, recovery can fall on stumbling blocks, like a child riding a bike, then falling off so many times, things can still come back and hurt you.

Others might think, yeah, I felt that in the past, and then things
just change for the worse.
You still need to look at what you have achieved, but don't expect a big response to where you are today.

Today, I just blame myself for everything, which is why I was born to do, and that is why I don't post so much.
Maybe right or wrong, but I never know.

Just go forward,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#252414 - 10/01/08 04:57 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: reality2k4]
sunwolf Offline


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
we al lblame ourselves at some point...its a sindrome...i been in that...i blame myslef..then I don't..then again..where will it end?


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#252426 - 10/01/08 06:10 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: sunwolf]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I blamed myself also, I don't anymore. 25 years in recovery is a long time. Yes I recently got out of therapy after 3 years and I am recovered for the most part. Sometimes things come back and I have learned how to face them and deal with it. I have my setbacks and my bad days. They are much different now than they were 3 years ago when I entered therapy. I still come here and share when I need to or maybe give someone else hope. Sometimes just to say hi. We all have our own experiences and we all deal with them in different ways. We can only share what we know and each one of has something to give and something to learn. Trauma is a real challenge to work through. I think that is something we can all agree on. As was said before take what you can leave the rest. It worked for me.
Ricky

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#252431 - 10/01/08 06:40 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Tinman]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
I've said this a few a times already and I'll repeat it here. I have been at this recovry/reconstruction process thingy for twenty + years. I am not, nor do I even consider that I might be an expert at it. That being said, I too have my success stories to tell, many things that I have tried only to discover that they have merit and do work. And yes, Paul, I do wish that I could share these things for the benefit of others - but I don't!

We are all of us at very different and often times difficult places on the way to personal recovery and I feel that it is important to be mindfull of that. For instince: I DO know that forgiveness is one of the major keys that unlocks the door to the freedom from the past that we all seek. To me that is indisputable.

However, for the guy who is still using his anger as a shield with which to protect himself from what he perceives as potential pain, the very suggestion of forgiveness can be what sets him back a pace or two - simply because in his right now, he's just not able to go there.

Am I helping him or hindering him by suggesting that if he truly wants to be well he needs to forgive JUST BECAUSE FORGIVENESS WORKED FOR ME?

I think a Forum for success stories is a grand idea. Each person is free to go there or not. For the rest of us, we could at least humbly express our gratitude for how far we have come all while stating how far we still have to go.

Do we take a poll?

Your fellow journeyman,
Joel

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#252447 - 10/01/08 07:06 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: joelRT]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Guys,

I don't want to make any promises here but the topic of a "Success Stories" forum is being raised in the mod forum for some discussion. Stay tuned. In the meantime please continue this really great discussion.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#252448 - 10/01/08 07:07 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: joelRT]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Joel,

I think I like what you said. By having a separate forum for success stories, that gives each of us the choice of whether we want to click into that forum at all or as you put it, the freedom to go there.
Thanks,
Dale


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#252529 - 10/02/08 04:12 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Elad 12]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
I think a Success Forum is a great idea!

"Recovery Is Possible!" Wow! What a concept!! \:\)

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#252549 - 10/02/08 08:53 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Stephen_5]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Paul,

If a guy is having a lot of trouble even getting started with his recovery it's sometimes very difficult for him to read or hear about others who are doing well. When he sees that he wonders why he too isn't making such progress.

That said, I hope you will continue talking about your progress. You achieved it, after all. Against the odds. And in what may well be the most difficult task a guy can confront in all his life. You did the hard work, bro. CLAIM your victory and success!

Others may feel awkward when they hear about your progress, but at the same time it may inspire them too. The first steps are the toughest, or at least that was my experience. By talking about your own triumph you may show others that at the end of the day they can do this too.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#252558 - 10/02/08 09:39 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: roadrunner]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Here's the bug of it for me. If not here, then where can I express and to whom can I express my successes where I will be heard and understood. I have friends who graciously listen to me when I need that. They listen, they don't hear.

I fully take your point, Larry, and I made much the same comment earlier which brings me back to the suggestion someone made that we have a seperate Forum for Success Stories. There is so much I have to share but don't for fear of destabilizing a fellow journeyman. But ya know, sometimes you just need to shout from the rooftops: "Holy Fuck man, I actually pulled such and such off, I never thought that I could succeed and just look at me now." to guys who get it!!!

Your fellow journeyman,
Joel

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#252565 - 10/02/08 10:41 AM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: joelRT]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
I know somewhere here Andrei had a thread going called something like "Here's the Good Stuff". Why don't the Mods raise it to the front of the Survivors forum and put a sticky on it so everyone has a place to post their good stuff? Get Nathan to do his techno-majik somehow to keep it ready accessible. At least until y'all finish debating the Success Stories Forum in voodoo land. LOL

Paul, to get to the heart of your question, you know that recovery is like rock climbimg. Climb up a little, slip and fall back, skin knees and elbows. But you are farther along than some. But that's why posts that may not make sense now do later and we can reply to them and bring them back to the front for discussion. So you do contribute. And recovery isn't taboo, just slow.

Brian

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#252631 - 10/02/08 06:11 PM Re: Is recovery taboo here? [Re: Stephen_5]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
It's not impossible.
Brian always says so, but it is your life and yours alone.
I have had many setbacks because of setbacks in health
care etc.

Nothing is impossible, and we all told ourselves that, but
you need to keep going forward, and always remember "It's OK
to stumble along the way" , Mikeys quote,

I guess he was right.

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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