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#251503 - 09/27/08 05:34 PM I need it to stop.
TNT8lost Offline


Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 18
Loc: OK, USA
I have been with women and men. neither can get me off. i get so frustrated at myself and the person i'm with. i can go hours and nothing will happen. I have to be a voyeur of porn to satisfy myself and with that it takes 5 mins or less. i think it is sick and repulsive that i have to do this. I have strong gay tendencies and i don't want them. I don't want to be gay or Bi. I told my councilor this and they couldn't understand why i didn't want to be. If that is what i seemed to be attracted to then why the desire to make it go away. I can't say that looking at a man and admiring the aesthetics isn't something that i like to do, but i consider it more of a admiration, on my part, of what i don't have.
does anyone see my way? I wasn't born gay. i learned nothing else growing up but men.

_________________________
Thomas T.

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#251508 - 09/27/08 05:52 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: TNT8lost]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
TNT, I agree with you. I do not believe anyone is "born gay". It is a complex issue that defies simple definitions. I know I hold the minority position on this, at least among those who voice their opinion here.

Follow your heart. Don't let what others think you should be rule you.

Be good to yourself and be well.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#251530 - 09/27/08 07:19 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Barkabus]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
how could i be so blind and self-deluded. here i was walking around confused about my sexual orientation and didn't even know it.

boy am i glad someone finally set me straight.

i feel as if a weight has been lifted off of me.

hallelujah blah blah blah

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#251581 - 09/28/08 08:18 AM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Sans Logos]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
This has always been, and will probably always be, a confusing topic for me. As a young boy, I remember crushes on girls and women. Just before what I remember to be the first abuse (age 11) I had a crush on my (male) fifth grade teacher. I have felt attracted to people of both genders ever since. So, was I molested before 11 and don't remember, or were my childhood attractions to females early nn me just trying to fit into the social norm? I just don't know. Perhaps it's possible that some of us are born straight and some are born gay, and that others evolve. I don't believe anyone has the answer to this one, and if they think they do, I say to them, Show me the scientific evidence (yes, I know scientists have found the gene marker, whatever...how large a population was used in the study, and how many humans are there on Earth? How were participants selected? Were there biases in the selection process? Etc.). And really, in the grand scheme of things, does it matter all that much? I am what I am. And for me, that's confused as all get-out! I don't see how being stubborn on this topic benefits any of us, either.

Just my two cents worth...

Peace,

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

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#251583 - 09/28/08 08:20 AM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
...and one more thing, Thomas. You say you can't get off with a guy or a girl. Have you considered the possibility that you are neither gay nor straight, but asexual? Just a thought...

Peace,

John

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

Top
#251608 - 09/28/08 11:23 AM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Sexual identity confusion is a real common complication from sexual abuse. Here are two pieces from my book (hopefully coming out soon) that may help give you a better perspective.
Ken

Am I Gay If I Think about Penises a Lot?

Not necessarily. The man described above associated sexual pleasure with his mother’s (and later his partners’) legs, shoes and feet. Similarly, if a boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while stimulating his abuser’s penis, or from having his own penis stimulated, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. Our penis can make us feel good, give us a sense of power, and can alleviate boredom.

But when the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing and even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. Some men hate their penis because it “betrayed” them by becoming erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, involves his penis in the acts, some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, pain, humiliation, shame and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion you might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and at the same time trying to feel good about your sexuality, and about a part of your body that is so central to your sexuality as your penis.

Many survivors report a desire or temptation to look at the groins of other men, or at their exposed penises in situations like a changing room in school, gym, or at a swimming pool. It is natural for boys and men to be curious about the penises of other guys, and no amount of reassurance that size doesn’t matter seems to lessen this curiosity.

For survivors, however, the penis is also a symbol of the harm they have suffered. You may think, for example, that your penis is what “attracted” the abuser; this is often why survivors, both teens and adults, report feelings of wishing they were not boys, or of wishing they didn’t have a penis. Although this is not very common, some survivors are so conflicted about having a penis that they sometimes seriously think about cutting theirs off.

The sexual parts of other males can also arouse feelings of discomfort and peril in you: that is, you are looking at other men not because you desire them, but because you are on alert for signs of possible arousal, which for you would be a danger signal. But notice once again how, when you experience these feelings, you are in fact also re-experiencing the control that the abuser had over you. The abuser’s penis was the source and symbol of so much of what was happening to you as a boy. Now, even though the abuse has ended and you no longer need fear harm from the abuser, these old defense mechanisms are still active. What the abuser did years ago still has the power to influence how you think and behave.

One important consideration for those who are sexual with other men is to look at why you desire to act sexually with them. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping – on an unconscious level – that this time you will not be the helpless victim.

One example of this is familiar with those who know or work with abused women. How many women in abusive relationships end their relationship, but then return to the abusing partner or wind up with another man who turns out to be abusive as well? On some unconscious level these women may be hoping that “this time it will be different”. This way of thinking leaves them in a situation where they find themselves in a repeating cycle of bad or abusive relationships.

It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that behaving in this way will bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have in your life at the moment. Or you may have learned that by giving in, you will not be beaten or hurt more.

Again, look at all these situations and you can see the continuing control of the abuser. The bad times are gone, and perhaps the abuser too, but the emotional responses you learned as an abused boy may still be with you.

Why Can’t I Become Intimate or Sexual with Another Person?

First, recognize that intimacy does not necessarily mean being just sexual with another person. Intimacy is not another word for sex. It also includes things like being open, honest, sharing and caring with another person, and you can have intimacy, defined in this way, with a friend, parent, therapist or relative. And on the other hand, you can have casual sex with anyone and not be intimate in terms of your openness or sharing. However, the best kind of sexual relationship, most people believe, is one where you also have the emotional intimacy along with the sex.

If someone who may have been close to you, such as a relative, has sexually abused you, your feelings about trust have probably been damaged. This can be exacerbated when you tell or try to tell a parent about the abuse and you are not believed, or are blamed, or somehow you can’t express it in a way the parent can understand and perhaps take protective action. Trust is a vital component of intimacy. If you can’t trust, it is difficult to become intimate with another person.

The sexual experience itself may prevent you from feeling safe enough with the other person to perform adequately. Some survivors find that they have to fake interest or orgasms in sexual situations. Many men have a deep gnawing fear that keeps them on guard; sex becomes an effort rather than a pleasure or means of becoming closer with one’s partner. To fully experience good sex, one must be able to relax and allow the sexual response to build and let go to orgasm. Fighting to make it happen or struggling against intrusive thoughts and images does not make for good sex.

Being intimate with another person can be difficult and scary. Survivors often drive their partners crazy with conflicting moods and confusing behaviors. Chapter xxxx on “Family and Friends” will go into more detail in this area.

Intimacy also implies a degree of vulnerability. Many survivors don’t trust others, and when they are in a relationship the defenses are up to prevent being hurt again. Being vulnerable with a partner can be a risky step for the survivor who has experienced betrayal. For those who were abused and betrayed from an early age, being vulnerable later on may be something too risky to accept in a relationship. For many men, feeling vulnerable is a sign of weakness and is unacceptable to their self-definition of what it means to be a man.

For some survivors intimacy is something that may have existed at one time, or it may never have been experienced. In some ways, it is like the difference between “habilitation” and “rehabilitation”. Though “rehabilitation”, the return to a former state of being or functioning, is a more familiar term, “habilitation” may be less understood. If a person were severely injured in a car accident, he might be sent to a “rehabilitation program” where he could relearn to use the injured limb. Muscles would have to be retrained to old movements or new ones might be brought into play to replace what cannot be used. Rehabilitation is the effort to bring back what has been lost.

With someone who has never learned to use the muscles, say a toddler who hasn’t mastered walking or running, the experiences and therapy will be teaching for the first time how to use the muscles. This is the process of habilitation, learning how to do something for the first time, as opposed to rehabilitation where it is about re-learning something that was lost or damaged.

In the case of a person who had experienced trust and intimacy with others, the loss of trust through betrayal may be requiring therapy to “rehabilitate” the lost trust and intimacy. However, for the person who has never experienced it, the job of “habilitation” is much more difficult to enable him to trust and feel intimacy for the first time. So the survivor who never experienced intimacy with a parent will have to learn about it (habilitation). The survivor who lost trust and pulled back from intimacy will have to relearn how to trust again. This makes it very difficult for partners to deal with someone who is emotionally closed and guarded.


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#251620 - 09/28/08 12:47 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
TNT8lost Offline


Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 18
Loc: OK, USA
Ken,
I'm not sure what to say, but thank you. I'm very analytical and am always self examining myself to try and figure things out. The piece from your, soon to be, book was very inspiring and has actually enlightened me to many new perspectives that i will consider over what i have currently learned. I will defiantly be buying your book. Again thank you.

_________________________
Thomas T.

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#251633 - 09/28/08 01:45 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: TNT8lost]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
ken, the price of admission to this website was already returned full measure pressed down shaken together running over, and now you put a cherry on top. thanks so much for your loving guidance, and for the spirit that lives inside your head and heart bearing such a compassionate truth.

you da' man!

yes, if i can't have you on my shelf, i'll settle for the book.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#251667 - 09/28/08 07:31 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: Sans Logos]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Thomas,

This debate over whether a gay guy is "born gay" or whether homosexuality is learned behavior is important to some, but I wonder if it really has to be so. My thought is that if a guy is gay and is content with this identity, then the point is that this really is him. It's a part of who he is as a person. He doesn't owe anyone explanations or justifications.

In your case, however, the issue doesn't seem to be gay v. straight, but rather an inability to find contentment or fulfillment either way. Yet porn works for you. To me that suggests that your problem is an abuse issue. Porn gets results because you are in control of that: you decide what, when, where, how long, and so on, and there is no real immediate person who can harm you or place your feelings at risk. It's a way to reach sexual arousal without the associations that seem so risky and dangerous because they recall what happened to you when you were abused.

The problem is that a gay man can be unhappy with his gay identity, just as a straight man can feel unhappy with that identity. It's a difficult issue in any case, and for survivors I think it becomes especially complicated.

I would say that the way forward for you is to raise this issue with a trained therapist with experience with such issues. But be sure you are working with someone who isn't going to try to direct you one way or the other according to his or her own agenda. The goal should be to be Thomas, wherever that sexual identity happens to lie.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#251676 - 09/28/08 07:57 PM Re: I need it to stop. [Re: roadrunner]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
I agree with Larry, Thomas. It sounds like more of a sexual dysfunction. Control issues, performance anxiety, etc. can all be issues for abuse victims.

I have the same problem myself and for me, if my partner decides it is "my turn" I just go numb - I can't feel anything down there. I'm certain that it is all in my head. There are sex therapists that deal with this type of stuff, you can find one online. I think when I'm certain I'm going to be with someone long term I'm going to work on it as a couple... until then, I just work around it and not worry about it no matter how frustrating it could be.

Hang in there!

Michael


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