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#251821 - 09/29/08 12:31 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: Marissa]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
You're right Brian, trickle down economic's downfall was when it became fashionable and economically prudent to buy and invest overseas (mainly because of US government tax breaks if you do so). So as we cut taxes for the rich giving them lots more spendable income, they took that income and began buying foreign products and investing in foreign countries to take advantage of these additional tax breaks. That made them more money, but the trickle down stopped.

Two other big concerns we aren't talking about:

1) the RNC wants our agriculture industry to be run like Europe does - Americans should OWN farms, not farm farms. Farming should be done by seasonal workers who don't qualify for minimum wages or unionization and should be brought into the country to plant and harvest and then sent home for the rest of the year. This will put a hell of a lot of Americans out of work.

2) the RNC, beginning with a 1984 document, continues to undermine public schools by discounting their progress and making them sound like they are failing worse than they are. The goal is to completely cut all federal funding for education by privatizing ALL school through the charter school movement. Not only forces the cost of education back onto the parents (to allow the markets to work but further stratifying education by class) but also breaks all teachers unions because most charter schools aren't unionized (I taught in one charter school teachers here make 80% of what public school teachers make, work longer days, don't get planning periods, and fewer benefits).

So much for having a better educated workforce. The problem is, most of our kids are over qualified for the jobs that are out there in the service industry as the corporate world guts middle management and then they get tax breaks and bail outs.

In my case, I have 20 years experience, I've won national awards in my industry, and after getting laid off from a company that made software for banks after business dropped from 9/11, I can't get work. I'm over experienced, under educated (two masters degrees), over educated, skills are getting rusty from too much management, not enough experience in this particular industry, etc. etc. etc. That's why I tried to switch to teaching - union job with pension, twenty-five year and retire at 66. However, in Ohio, they are laying off teachers with a masters and 10 years (the masters is required by law within the first 5) because no one can afford to pay anyone but first year teachers. The economy is bad and tax revenues that fund the schools is dropping and costs from No Child Left Behind are going up. So, hopefully becoming a therapist and owning my own business will be better.

Bush and the RNC want the US to be an Ownership country. But if everyone owns the businesses, who is going to work there?

Sorry, I'll shut up now.

<Stepping off the Soapbox>


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#251823 - 09/29/08 12:41 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: Marissa]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Well, let's see- i was recently informed that due to lack of work, i wouldn't be needed at the factory where i'd been working as a temp for two weeks, and there isn't anything immediately available. Looks like rice and beans again for a while, i just hope i can afford rent and car insurance this month...
Where's my freakin' "bailout"?
"Let them eat cake."

"Forget that yucky ol' 'economic meltdown' stuff, let's watch that Sarah Palin swimsuit clip again!"

Panem et circenses, indeed.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#251824 - 09/29/08 12:52 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: dgoods]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
As Deborah Pryce, my congress woman and leader in the congress Republicans put it best. "This is the most exciting time in my political career. It's not about Palin's experience or record, it's that she's a woman and we should vote for her." I about died, that was the last thing I ever expected to come out of her mouth...


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#251842 - 09/29/08 02:17 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: M3]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
DOWN IN DEFEAT!!! WALLSTREET SELLOFF!!!

Profiteers are waiting in the wings. Republicans fail to support the bailout and drive down Wall Street values. As soon as the recovery plan is put into place, buy fast because Wall Street will rebound and making A LOT of people A LOT OF MONEY!! This will be better than a tax cut if you're rich - all the money you make now is only taxed 15% because it is capital gains...


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#251845 - 09/29/08 02:24 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: M3]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
THREAD HIJACKED!!!!

Sorry guys, I'm ranting and raving today. Just gave in to apply to UPS to work part-time nights. They are a great employer here in town for college students paying $11.50-$12.50 an hour part-time, plus insurance and tuition reimbursement up to $3000 per year.

OH, my bad, they have dropped their insurance and the wages are now $8.50-$9.50 per hour.

Job postings for full-time web design/management positions here in Columbus are being posted for $21,800 as salaried positions expecting you to know graphic design, photography and programming and have 3-5 years experience. I used to make $125 an hour doing this.


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#251850 - 09/29/08 02:36 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: M3]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Last night on one of the business channels on DirectTV, it was suggested by some pro-Republican commentator that the most responsible thing that Sarah Palin could do, was withdraw her name from the Republican ticket, suggesting that she has become a gross liability to the Republican ticket. It is obvious that all kinds of questions and scandals are becoming a real problem for Mrs. Palin and her seccessionist husband.

Was I right on Wachovia? Would that make it 4 out of 4? And I watched an interesting discussion with the CEO of Ambac, another insurance company tied heavily into the mortgage crisis, that faces a possible credit rating downgrade today over its attempt to acquire some low-risk government bond capital in an effort to decrease their risk portfolio.

Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank said that they hoped to get the Senate to vote on the bailout by later in the week, and earlier last week, another analyst on Fox Business suggested that he would put in a buy order around Dow 9,900. Considering that figured for inflation, since the end of President Clinton's term, Dow should be at 18,000-20,000 just to keep pace, we are in a very serious recession if not a depression. There are a lot of parallels between the collapse of financial and other stock values now and various financial, railroad, and industrial stock values in 1929. Could we be heading for another Great Depression?

One thing is certain. The Chinese don't want to underwrite any more of our debt if we can't stay away from printing-up huge amounts of new non-backed currency to keep the good times rolling. Would you want to lend someone $100 then get paid back with interest with a currency that is worth substantially less than it was when you lent it out? This is essentially the problem that has caused this mess. Our national debt is over $10 trillion and Treasury has repeatedly printed-up huge amounts of new money to essentially "prime the pump" with the hopes that the ensuing growth would cover the shorter-term loss in value to our currency. It worked for Bill Clinton, but for G. W, the same basic strategy has backfired in a tremendous way.

What we going to do? The mother of all bailouts will devalue our currency even more and make it less likely that anyone will underwrite any more of our national debt. But the alternative will make it virtually impossible to sell houses, cars, and productive equipment except to cash buyers. It's not a huge problem immediately, but over time, a lot of cars and productive machinery and equipment will become obsolete or run-down, which will eventually cost productive capability and competitiveness. Imagine what virtually no-growth concurrent with a period of increasing obsolescence would do to our economy, along with an immediate loss of the ability to sell homes or any major consumer product or business equipment except for cash?

That is why the bailout is preferable to the alternative. How much in the way of readily-convertible assets does the average American have? Remember, you can't sell your house or your car except at a fire-sale price to a cash buyer. How about bank savings, stocks, or other financial instruments including retirement plans? I'm sure that our government will act to prevent any kind of run on the banks. Did you guys get to see any of the video footage of the long lines at several of the suspect financial institutions ATMs over the weekend? And now comes word of fuel shortages in the southeastern US. And if you missed it, a British commercial mortgage institution and a Dutch mortgage insurer went under over the weekend. Wachovia was 18.75 Friday morning and gone today.

Readily-convertible means precious commodities. This would include various shorter futures and precious metals. Without the bailout, in just 3 years, unemployment could be as high as 30% to 50%. (Unemployment is already 20% to 30% in large areas of Michigan and Ohio and a few other older major industrial cities). Do you have enough in the way of readily-convertible assets to last 5-10 years? If the answer is no, you had better vote for the bailout, or get ready to join the Army, or the Army of the unemployed. In essence this means get ready.

Maybe now (while you can still afford to do so) would be a good time to buy a wheelbarrow and a grain shovel, so that you can take enough money with you to the store to buy groceries. Maybe a couple of good gold pans or a sluice box too, along with a good tent, a couple of foam mattresses, a cookstove for wood, an axe and a pickaxe, certain vegetable or fruit seeds, a couple 24-packs of TP, enough canned goods to last at least one winter, some other survival stuff like a hand-crank radio and flashlight, even maybe a small generator too, Then get an ATV with a trailer to haul all of your worldly possessions as far off of the road as you can get, including a large tank for extra gas. And don't forget to buy several guns and plenty of bullets for when times get really rough.

Let the good times roll....

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#251880 - 09/29/08 04:31 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: Trucker51]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Almost 800 points!!! Just think: 13 more days like today and the DOW will be in negative territory. And it will be until at least next week before the Congress can pass another bailout bill. I'm going to revise my buy order to DOW 8,000 and wait and see!!! I'll be surprised if anyone votes for the Republicans come November. Maybe that is their strategy: No one will be able to afford to go to vote.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#251881 - 09/29/08 04:51 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: Trucker51]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
My losses, in exact terms = holy FKING FK!!!

Need to refill my Xanax wall-dispenser

Anyone wanna buy some apples?

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#251890 - 09/29/08 05:38 PM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: Still]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Oh mother of...

My portfolio lost 18% in the last two weeks.


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#252014 - 09/30/08 12:29 AM Re: About the Banking Crisis/Bailouts [Re: M3]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
National City and Sovereign were down by over 60% today and Key Bank was down almost 35%. Now we know why Key Bank was trying to sell CDs 9 days ago for almost 5%. Several banking entities in Australia were down heavily when their markets opened a few hours ago, including one big mortgage bank that is down well below $2 (Aus) per share. Congress reconvenes Thursday but any new bailout plan will have to please more lawmakers. To get the 40% of Democrats that voted against today's plan, some kind of mortgage relief for homeowners will have to be included, which will lose still more of the Republican vote. Then the Senate can't vote through normal procedures until several days later. Five European financial institutions went under over the weekend. Even that nutty Cramer looked really worried when he suggested the possibility of our suffering the Great Depression II tonight on his show.

If your portfolio is down 18% in two weeks, how much is it down since June, back when our beloved leaders were praising the strength of our economy? (Now we know for sure that what they did was an old Enron tactic designed to placate fear and keep as many people as possible in the markets). My one plan was down from its high last Fall by just over 20% when I pulled it to their Money Market back in June. The other plan has no really safe haven, but their bond fund has been down by over 10% since March. And now Morgan Stanley's Money Market may not be safe either. Gee, I wonder if Key Bank is still offering 5%? Maybe I could get an IRA there instead???

What happens if we can't get a bailout done until after the election or even until after the inauguration???

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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