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#2501 - 07/31/06 02:02 PM I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I really do...


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#2502 - 07/31/06 02:30 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Want to elaborate on that a bit? This sounds like something you need to talk about.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a "bad day". We all have times when there just isn't a wretched thing to say except "Fuck it all".

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#2503 - 07/31/06 02:50 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
It's just another day of hating my father and missing Kenny and feeling guilty about both Larry.

Jay


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#2504 - 07/31/06 03:06 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Okay. I can understand why you feel so strongly about your father, and we have talked about why a survivor may sometimes miss the abuser. You aren't alone.

And there's no reason to feel guilty because you have these feelings. It's not like you chose them, and it's not like you have the option of turning them on and off as you please. These high-powered emotions so often aren't good or bad, they're just "there".

You don't have to judge yourself because you have these feelings. You haven't done anything wrong. Gradually you will sort all this out; it just takes time.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2505 - 07/31/06 03:24 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Gimmie a break Larry, let me feel guilty for no real valid reasons for a while will you? lol


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#2506 - 07/31/06 03:37 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Okay, done! You have exactly half an hour for wallowing in undeserved guilt; refills and extensions granted on merit basis only ;\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2507 - 07/31/06 03:40 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Great, thanks I appreciate that!
How do I earn the merits?


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#2508 - 07/31/06 03:44 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Haven't decided yet, but get back to wallowing bro. The guilt-meter is running and you're wasting your half hour! \:\)

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2509 - 07/31/06 04:16 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Okay, okay...

It was all my fault it was all my fault it was all my fault I feel guilty it was all my fault it was all my fault it was all my fault it was all my fault I feel guilty it was all my fault it was all my fault it was all my fault it was all my fault I feel guilty it was all my fault it was all my fault....

How am I doing on time?


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#2510 - 07/31/06 06:26 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Time's up. In order to get an extension you have to name me a really STUPID reason for thinking it was all your fault. Reasons that are simply WRONG don't count. Go for it dude...

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2511 - 07/31/06 06:35 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Fair enough...
Stupid reason # 1 - I asked for it. I don't mean that I did anything wrong, I mean I verbally asked for it.

Does that count?


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#2512 - 08/01/06 01:01 AM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
GONG! :p Not a stupid reason at all. Lots of abused kids do things simply because they are so wrecked and devastated by abuse they just don't care anymore. The man who abused me was able to get me to call him "Daddy" and ask him to do things using swear words I didn't even know yet. That's how worthless I felt.

But it doesn't need to come to that. Any boy needs and wants to feel special, important and loveable. If he is growing up in a dysfunctional household where he doesn't get that, he will feel emotionally starved and will be an easy target for a predator. The predator will befriend him, listen to him, and try to make him feel special. As the boy trusts the predator more and more, he doesn't notice that the friendship is getting into some very personal sexual territory. The boy thinks its okay because he trusts this friend who makes him feel special; he WANTS so badly for it all to be okay.

What the boy doesn't see is that the predator is grooming and manipulating him every step of the way. He KNOWS when he has enough power over the boy that if he asks the boy, "Do you want this?", and "Are you sure?", the boy will say yes. But what the boy is really doing is admitting that he wants so badly to feel special and loved, and he fears that if he says no, he isn't sure he wants what the predator has in mind, then the result will be rejection and loss of that love and special attention. That price is just too high for a neglected kid to pay.

So sorry bro, not a stupid reason at all. What happened to you shows how innocent and defenseless kids are, and how cruel abusers can be.

Try again??? ;\)

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2513 - 08/01/06 01:19 AM Re: I give up
melliferal Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Asked for it? That's it? I asked for it, too. Hell, I don't feel guilty about saying it: to speak the plain truth, there was a day or two in there when I seriously couldn't wait to get home from school, so I could do it. It doesn't matter. Adults are supposed to make the moral decisions, not kids. Although to be fair, despite knowing this I admit it still made me feel guilty for a while.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#2514 - 08/01/06 02:01 AM Re: I give up
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
I remember building a fort with neighbor kid who was 6+ years older than me. I must have been about 8 at the time. I couldn't wait to get the fort finished so we could go in there and "have some fun". Yup. Been there. It was still devastating to me, but I had no way of knowing, and perhaps, neither did he. I felt guilt over that one for a while when I first started recovery not to mention every time he and I finished our "play" back when I was a kid.

I don't and won't go there any more. Waste of time because I'm not guilty. I had no way of knowing. This whole sex thing was way out of my league as a kid. How the hell was I supposed to know? Mom tried to tell me not to be "nasty", but she also abused me when she would catch me at it. WTF? What kind of a way to teach a kid is that?

Anyhow I've rambled here, but I think you get the point. I wasn't guilty.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#2515 - 08/01/06 12:55 PM Re: I give up
caointeoir Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 37
larry and jay, your conversation in this thread made me smile. you're both very clever.

jaysen, i don't exactly know what happened that made you feel like this. however, i have faith you will keep on going. there is more stuff i want to hear from you. it must be 'the season', i've felt rotten for a while myself. i'm confident it will pass. i'm confident you'll go on, continue to move forward. things will get better.

if you want to talk, i would feel good about listening any time.

and in the meantime - tool are embarking on a US arena tour in a few days, maybe they stop somewhere near your place and you can go there to give yourself a treat? http://www.toolband.com/tour/index.html


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#2516 - 08/01/06 01:50 PM Re: I give up
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
i have tool tickets
septembr 29th. tweeter center.

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#2517 - 08/01/06 11:30 PM Re: I give up
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jay
another 'GONG' I'm afraid!

Quote:
Fair enough...
Stupid reason # 1 - I asked for it. I don't mean that I did anything wrong, I mean I verbally asked for it.

Does that count?
No, that don't count.

But I also thought it did.

You're 20 years younger than me so your memory shouldn't be as wrecked as mine is :rolleyes:
Think back to the grooming or other tactics your abuser(s) used, think hard about it however painful it is. Concentrate on the WORDS and PHRASES THEY USED.

My bet is that they used leading questions, verbal tricks and conditioning to lead you into giving the 'right' answer.
My main abusers were other pupils at the boarding school I went to, they were about 2 years older than me but even at 13yo they had a certain skill at manipulation that was extremely effective.
After the very first 'contact' with the ringleader I backed off, like any 11yo should do. So they used force, it's a long story.

After the rape / show of force I was in a position where refusal was pointless, so it would be easy to think that for them to continue the abuse all they had to do was issue threats. But it's far easier, and quite possibly more erotic, for them to have a victim that's complient.
Also, and this is possibly a greater influence amongst abusers, they relieve themselves of RESPONSIBILITY if they groom us into a situation where we ask them for sex, it eases their conscience.

I spent years asking my abusers for sex, I suggested different sex acts and positions, even asked for group sex.
All they had to do was ask me something something ( seemingly ) innocent such as "what are doing after class today ?" and even though I might have wanted to go and play rugby or something I 'knew' that the answer was "Nothing much, fancy a fuck?"

All the blame on me, none on them. The earlier grooming and rape didn't count for them, they'd got over that - if they had any guilt at all, which I doubt. The important thing for them was having me, and others, complient to their wishes.
I asked for sex, all they did in their own twisted reality was "do me a favour"

So, sorry Jay, that's not a good enough reason to go to the pity party!

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#2518 - 08/02/06 01:05 AM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Just to quote something Dave points out:

Quote:
My bet is that they used leading questions, verbal tricks and conditioning to lead you into giving the 'right' answer.
By the time the abused boy gets asked the kind of questions you refer to, the abuser has made DAMN sure that he will get the answers he wants. The boy doesn't even see it coming, and that's what makes this kind of betrayal so cruel. The boy genuinely DOES think he is agreeing to the abuse and even asking for it. He doesn't see he is being tricked and manipulated every step of the way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2519 - 08/02/06 01:35 AM Re: I give up
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Indeed; never underestimate the power of grooming. It's formidable, and NO child is capable of standing against it when the perp is determined.

To get us to do what they wanted to do, my perps didn't need to use force at all. First of all, they were adults - my friends' parents - and I'd been taught by my own parents to always listen to other adults. Secondly, they were real subtle about what they did. I heard someone say once that if you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will jump out right away; however, put the frog in a pot of cold water and SLOWLY turn up the heat, the frog will stay until it's dead. The theory is that it keeps adjusting itself, and getting "used to" the added heat, so that it never realizes when it's too hot. I don't know how true that is in the literal sense - but figuratively, it applies to my abuse. It happened in little steps, each one just a little more "perverted" than the one before, so there was never a sudden "WTF" moment. When you're already used to ("being allowed to") walk around in only SOME clothes, it's not a big change walking around in barely any. When you're already having to change clothes in the same room together, it's not a terribly outrageous leap to having to take showers together, and so on.

To get me to keep quiet, my perps didn't have to resort to force, either. When we were finally led into doing what they wanted us to do, the context in which the matter was discussed assigned all the guilt to me. Sure, they talked a lot about how "normal" it was, and how "lots of people do it but just don't talk about it"; but they never let me forget that I was the one with something to lose. "Don't worry", they'd say, "we won't tell. We like you and don't want you to get in trouble." And I actually thanked them for that.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#2520 - 08/02/06 10:07 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
It isn't the first time this has been mentioned on the board, but something Melliferal says in his last post really needs to be stressed:

Quote:
"Don't worry", they'd say, "we won't tell. We like you and don't want you to get in trouble." And I actually thanked them for that.
This is so classic isn't it? The abusers turn the whole process on its head and make the boy think that from the very start it was all HIS idea and now they are protecting him!

Here's an example from the crap I was told. The abuser didn't say: "You must never tell anyone. If you do, your Dad will be furious and throw you out of the house." What he did was phrase it in a way to make me feel as guilty as possible: "Don't worry, you can trust me. I would never tell anyone. I know your Dad would be furious and throw you out of the house if he knew."

No wonder an abused boy gets so confused. No wonder we have so many feelings that need to be rejected or reconsidered as we recover.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#2521 - 08/09/06 08:26 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Sorry to bring this up again but I just got back and read through all the replies here...

Yeah, I agree with everything you're all saying... I know what they say and how they trick you into asking for it, feeling like it's your fault, thanking them... all that.

Maybe I'm being stubborn about it here... I just feel that I had a choice to make and I made the wrong one. I mean it's not like he groomed me first and then tried something sexual, it all happened the very first time.

Yes, ok, his timing was perfect, I had just got a beating from my father and was alone, scared, feeling bad... that's when he came in to "comfort" me. Did a little more than comfort me. But somewhere in there he asked me if I wanted him to do this... even said he'd stop if I didn't want him to.

I said... "Yes"
The rest is history

Jay


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#2522 - 08/09/06 08:48 PM Re: I give up
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jay,

beating yourself up is no answer is it!
Think of the timing of the perp who did it.
They sought kids like us, who were down and
feeling bad.

I had one perp follow me for years, and wish I had the strength to think the cops would act on what a little kid told them, but I didnt, and thought his word would go against mine.

Even though I tracked him down to two addresses, one with boys visiting frequently, and the perps 'friends' coming and going.

The neighbours never shopped him, even though it stuck out like a sore thumb.
That was the 70s though, when you just got told off for abusing boys.

If an adult does things like that to a kid, its the adults responsibility for assaulting you.
It does not matter one tiny bit if you liked it, it was the adult who initiated it, and the body and mind can get used to a trait.

It is no more than luring you into a trap, and one that is going to upset your whole child and adult life.

Everybody in here has some form of guilt complex from abuse, but believe me, none of it was YOUR Fault,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#2523 - 08/09/06 08:55 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Ste...
Thanks, and no, beating myself up is no answer to this... I'd much rather have someone else do it for me \:\) <-- Just kidding about that.

Funny thing though, so he lured me into a trap and trapped me there for years. I finally get out and get lured into another trap a year and a half later... you'd think I would have learned the first time! But I suppose the first time I was just young and didn't know any better, the second time I was too wasted to care.

And I don't blame you for not telling the cops, I have my own problems with the cops.

Jay


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#2524 - 08/09/06 09:39 PM Re: I give up
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jay,

the perp 'conditioned you' into thinking it was some sort of 'love'.
It is a trap, because you are only an animal, and animals can be conditioned.

When I say animal, I dont mean it in the sense of the word, but rather to say that you reacted to stimulation which he provided be co-ercing you into it.

Example; If I was a 'rent boy' looking for paid sex with men, then who would be at fault?
It would not be me, even though I touted for sex.
It would be the the man who paid me to do it.

The man who sought sex with a child would be seen as responsible for the cycle of abuse in society.
Nobody would make movies if there was no market, and the music industry would not survive without the money they get to produce it.

The example paragraph says it all. I am now at say 11yo into the cycle of abuse because somebody took me against my will, and I was acting out sexually without going through puberty.

My mind is stuck into a mode were I expect men to do these things, and not only the dodgy old man, but all men.

I could have been a minesweeper for any perp in any neighbourhood, because acting out is subconscious and it is a trait.

You will get through,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#2525 - 08/10/06 02:28 AM Re: I give up
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
jay do you really think it would have made him stop if you had said no? lots of kids who said no ended up begging for it just to stop the beatings that can be the result of saying no. i said no i got the shit kicked out of me and still got molested anyway ,would have been safer to just go along . bottom line is the age difference is so big that a kid dont stand a chance against an adult he made you think you had a choice but you really didnt ,thats part of their game making it look like you had a way out but none of us really did. shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#2526 - 08/10/06 01:46 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Shadow, good question.
I don't really know if it would have made him stop if I said "no". My head tells me that yes he probably would have only because he was good at playing that game.. he would have continued to pursue it I'm sure. My gut tells me that he would have just talked me into it, coerced me or continued to condition me like Ste said.

It's confusing to me because I keep getting stuck somewhere in-between the abuse from my uncle which as it turns out was planned/manipulative/calculated, etc... and the assault four years ago which was just flat out violent. That assault, right I said no and got the fuck beat out of me for it, got raped anyway. But my uncle... I just don't know.

The 21 year old me is rational and knows he just played with my mind and brainwashed me, etc. The kid me... I guess he's still convinced that the guy actually cared about me.


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#2527 - 08/10/06 01:57 PM Re: I give up
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
well maybe in his twisted mind he did ,but not as a person just as an object to be used for his own pleasure.well you were not just some toy for him to play with you were a person ,just a kid with all kinds of questions and he provided answers ,but not to help you only to lure you in . one thing those bastards do is make the kids care about them ,but not cause he wants you for a friend ,its way harder for a kid to tell on someone he knows and likes.they make kids love them ,they become your best friend just a way to be sure you keep quiet,shit how could a kid tell on his only friend? they also try to keep you isolated so that they are the only friend you have if he was nice to you its only to keep you quiet but how can a kid ever be expected to see the true motive behind what they do.none of it was your fault dude ,none of it .is it wrong for a kid to like somebody ,hell no thats all your guilty of ,having a good heart that was breaking ,thats what he saw ,just a target ,dude he so took advantage of you shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#2528 - 08/10/06 02:06 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Thanks for saying that to me Shadow.

Truth fucking hurts... but thanks, I needed to read it. I know he took advantage of me and I know he lied to me for his own selfish reasons. Not only did he hurt me then but he ultimately set me up for years of hurt after he was done with me.

Damn I miss him sometimes... how freaking crazy is that?!?!


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#2529 - 08/10/06 03:08 PM Re: I give up
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
hi Jaysen

I've been out of touch - but I am seeing your post

and wanted to just say Hi.

I hope the winds of hope and a nice moment

a twinkle of something happy - or pretty

or just a good thing

came by to distract -

and keep you knowing

good times - good moments happen

\:\)

you deserve better -

and look at you!!!

coming here to heal!!!

you're making that good stuff you deserve
on the track to coming true!

day by day!

way to go bud!!!

(((jaysen)))


!!!
pax - mark

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#2530 - 08/10/06 03:10 PM Re: I give up
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
accidental double entry - *

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#2531 - 08/10/06 03:44 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Hey Mark... Mr. Accidental Double Entry guy...
Thanks! That was a nice distraction indeed! Now I feel all warm and fuzzy \:D


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#2532 - 08/10/06 03:57 PM Re: I give up
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
fuzzy wuzzy wuz a bear

fuzzy wuzzy had no hair

fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy

wuz he?

\:\)

(((jaysen)))
!

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#2533 - 08/10/06 04:04 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Somebody shaved him, the poor bastard is probably freezing his ass off! \:\)


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#2534 - 08/10/06 04:10 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow and Jaysen,

When you talk about missing the abuser or being tempted to believe that at some level he cared about you, that reminds me so much of how I felt when I was 14 and the man who was abusing me got chased off. At first I didn't understand that it really was over, and when I figured that out I felt even worse than I had when I was being abused. I thought I had been abandoned and rejected, and I kept wondering "What's wrong with me?" and "Why has he turned his back on me?" And I felt this way even though, when I WAS being abused, I felt absolutely terrified and ashamed.

I think all this just shows how devastated a boy is by the abuse he is enduring. After all, as a child he needs and cherishes attention, and considering how messed up he is, he just doesn't understand anymore that THIS is not the kind of attention he needs. In my case I think I felt so worthless that it finally made the abuse somehow seem "acceptable"; I just didn't think I was worth any better treatment than that.

I don't know if this rings true with you two, but the point is that you should not think you are screwed up because you have thoughts like this. It really IS very common among young survivors. And like other feelings, it's important to talk about it and get it out into the light of day instead of hiding it and blaming yourself for it. By talking about these things we come to understand them, and as we understand them better their ability to hurt us is weakened.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#2535 - 08/10/06 04:11 PM Re: I give up
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
no no -

he is fine.

he is still warm and his name is fuzzy.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#2536 - 08/10/06 04:28 PM Re: I give up
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Okay Mark, if you say so then I believe you!

Larry - I hear what you're saying.

I never got mad at him or blamed him after he left, I blamed my folks for making him leave. I felt like they took him away from me, then all I had left was the old man and I simply could not deal with him by myself. So of course I went right out looking for other guys like Kenny and unfortunately I found them. Like you said, the abuse seemed acceptable and it seemed normal too.


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#2537 - 08/10/06 09:03 PM Re: I give up
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Relating to how you missed someone who abused you, is not uncommon given the circumstances.
You, were a kid, and maybe he made you laugh and bought you stuff.

He took it one step further, by relating your mind and body, and it is nothing shorter than emotional blackmail.

Confused Who wouldnt be.
It confused the hell out of me, and it came at a time when you were growing up in the World, so he took away your own exploration of natural sexual relationships.

At 14yo, I was totally confused about whether I was gay, or hetero, but I loved women, and would love men if they never hurt.

A normal 14yo, would be much more well equipped to deal with these feelings, and I know I am not putting my point across with how I think.

The reason is, that I am only speaking from experiencing what others have said in the past, on the 'consensual' side. Oh yes, it might feel good, and you go back for more, but that is not your fault, it is those who lead you astray.

Perps have many quests, and when they get enough of one, they move on to new pastures and abuse more kids, who would not tell because they thought they would be seen as complicit.

If you re-enter the child adult thing, then you would never have reported this to the cops.
You would have thought! Oh, I will be seen as a boy whore!

That is the child mindset on this matter, and the other thing to think about is the embarrassment that follows disclosure.

Confused
Not when you dig deep enough into the silence,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#2538 - 08/13/06 12:55 PM Re: I give up
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Jaysen & Adam,

None of us choose to be abused. When it happened though we were faced with some choices. I could have told my molester "NO" and he might have stopped or I could be dead. At that point I made the best choice a little nine or ten year old could make.

In hindsight, I could have made better choices than the ones I did, like going to his apartment because he bought me ice cream and gave me money. It's easy to see it now as an adult, from the knowledge I've gained through the years.
But even now as an adult, I have to make the best decisions I can based on what I know.

My little kid made the best choices he could. He made his best decision at a time when he was scared, confused and alone with this sicko.

I can say this with my head but my heart has got to forgive this kid for his innocent errors and release him from the blame and shame he doesn't deserve.

Sunny


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#2539 - 08/13/06 01:59 PM Re: I give up
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
***** possible triggers *****

Sunny,

I want to emphasize something you say in your last post here:

Quote:
In hindsight, I could have made better choices than the ones I did, like going to his apartment because he bought me ice cream and gave me money. It's easy to see it now as an adult, from the knowledge I've gained through the years.
The things we see so clearly now, as adults, were not in our view as boys, and indeed could not have been in our view. An innocence, naive defenseless boy simply does not have the resources to make the kind of decisions or discover the alternatives that seem so obvious to us now.

I can illustrate with my own case. The first time I was abused I was sent upstairs to bring something from my friend's room, not knowing that his father was only sending me up there with the idea of following me. When I turned around, there he was in his underwear telling me to take down my trousers. As an adult I can see that I could have told him no, or I could have run past him. But that's me thinking at age 57. As an 11-year-old boy I just froze. I was afraid and I didn't understand why I was supposed to do this. But he was an adult, a friend of my family, a church elder, and a leader in my Scout troop. So I cried and trembled and already felt ashamed, but I did as I was told.

I think the basic point is this. If a boy doesn't know he has a choice then in fact that choice doesn't exist for him. And even if he does see possibilities to escape or end things, these alternatives (such as telling safe adults) often involve such trauma that he cannot possibly opt for them. It's not a child's fault if he cannot think of or do what is necessary to defeat a predator.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#2540 - 08/14/06 11:26 AM Re: I give up
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Thanks Larry,

Getting rid of the "I should have"'s in my head and my heart is something I am working on.

Sunny


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