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#247582 - 08/31/08 02:49 PM Guilt
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I really think I'm not quite sure whether my greatest arch enemy is my survivor issues or guilt. I'm not a bad person. I don't feel guilt anymore about my CSA or other abuse issues, but if someone puts a guilt trip on me I'm a huge sucker for it and even if I know it's not a fair guilt trip, I still can't convince some part of myself that it isn't all true and that I'm a horrible person.

I don't know how much of this has to do with survivor issues, probably some because it ties back to that ingrained shame and any disapproval from anyone appears to that shamed part of me that it is confirmation of my awfulness.

What's ominous about it is that a lot of the time it doesn't even form into words that I can give some manageable attribute to like the itty bitty shitty committe in my head criticizing me, it just sits there silent..this feeling that I'm shitty person and don't deserve to live.(not a suicide threat)

I'm sure if I listed the things here that I'm guilt tripping like this about it would seem absurd for me to feel this way and it is absurd. I know it it's absurd, but can't feel like I know it..if you know what I mean. \:\(



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#247584 - 08/31/08 03:31 PM Re: Guilt [Re: blueshift]
kutcher Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 99
Loc: Delaware
Doug,

I know what you mean, a friend once told me I should just announce to the world that "I am sorry for everything that has ever gone wrong and will go wrong because I feel guilty about it"

It is hard to know if it is a result of the abuse, my parents, my inner make up or what.

Any way I don't have a solution for you just understanding and empathy.

Also I have to say I love your avatar and I am jealous yours is so cool and mine is just a stock one.

Your guilty friend:)

Dave


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#247594 - 08/31/08 03:59 PM Re: Guilt [Re: blueshift]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6845
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: blueshift
I'm not quite sure whether my greatest arch enemy is my survivor issues or guilt.
. . .but if someone puts a guilt trip on me I'm a huge sucker for it
. . .can't convince some part of myself that it isn't all true and . . . a horrible person.


This seems standard fare for us as survivors of abuse. That terrible paradox that the perp seems to walk away with no shame or guilt while the boy/survivor walks away in humiliation, feeling alienated from himself and the world. The false guilt because it was really the perp that is guilty.

Originally Posted By: blueshift

. . .that ingrained shame and any disapproval . . . appears to that shamed part of me that it is confirmation of my awfulness.

You are definitely not aweful. It is the abuse that told you that you are aweful. You were lied to. Do not continue to believe that lie that you are aweful. You have not done anything to be ashamed of.
Originally Posted By: blueshift

. . . it doesn't even form into words . . .it just sits there silent..this feeling that I'm shitty person and don't deserve . . .

Yes, that's exactly how it works. It is a feeling below the level of verbalization (sits there silent) that tells you you are a shitty person. You are not a shitty person. You have been hurt by someone else, leaving you to feel wretched.
Originally Posted By: blueshift

I'm sure if I listed the things here that I'm guilt tripping like this about it would seem absurd for me to feel this way

Yes, why don't you make a list of these things (guilt tripping things) but for yourself unless you choose to post it. But then read it and tell yourself (honestly) how absurd it is. Do it!

Allen

Puffer




Edited by pufferfish (08/31/08 03:59 PM)

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#247623 - 08/31/08 10:29 PM Re: Guilt [Re: pufferfish]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Doug,

I think the key for you is when you said, "but [I] can't feel like I know it."

This is a step we all have to face throughout our recovery on many different topics. We understand that the guilt and shame should belong to the perpetrator and not us long before we truly believe that the guilt and shame should belong to the perpetrator long before we can truly stop feeling the guilt and shame. And it is pervasive throughout all the aspects of our life.

A therapist at one of the Weekends of Recovery referred to this as "bumping into the sharp edges." She speaks of navigating through life continually bumping into the sharp edges and moving on. Internalizing the messages so you being to FEEL what you have learned (and unfeel what the perp taught you) takes time and work. Find ways like making the list to keep telling yourself that it is absurd, that you know better and you deserve to feel better.

You can make up a list as you mentioned (and Allen and I agree would help). In addition to the list, make up a motto, sign, find a photo or a comic, something - anything - that will continuously remind you of this sharp edge and then hang it everywhere: refrigerator, bathroom mirror, computer monitors at home and at work, put a copy in your wallet, the dashboard of our car, make it the wallpaper on your cellphone, and even put it on the ceiling above your bed. Make it big, make it small but know that only you know what it means. These continual reminders may help you recover from the feelings faster and over time diminish the intensity and frequency of these absurd guilty feelings.

I hope this helps. I find that this strategy helps me.

Michael


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#247652 - 09/01/08 12:44 AM Re: Guilt [Re: M3]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Thanx all. It's kind of confusing. There are some things really feel I SHOULD feel a LITTLE bit guilty about, but I'm not capable of feeling only a little bit guilty. And even if I don't feel bad about something initially I start to feel bad about not feeling bad as though feeling bad about not feeling bad is as good as feeling bad.


I seem to find it therapeutic though a lot of the time to just say to my self "F it!" or "F everything!" I titled a song that recently. I like the f word. It's my friend. \:\)






Edited by blueshift (09/01/08 12:48 AM)
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#247654 - 09/01/08 01:01 AM Re: Guilt [Re: kutcher]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Originally Posted By: kutcher


Also I have to say I love your avatar and I am jealous yours is so cool and mine is just a stock one.

Your guilty friend:)

Dave


(sob)I'm sorry.. I feel so guilty! lol..i'm so horrible! I should burn in hell.

Seriously though,..if ya want somethin cool just let me know what u got in mind and I can cook somethin up fer ya in no time! \:\) If I can find a picture of it on the internet, I can probably make some cool animation out of it pretty quick.


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#247659 - 09/01/08 01:45 AM Re: Guilt [Re: blueshift]
G5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 203
Loc: New Jersey
Guilt.....it fills my life.....feel guilty about buying something for myself, about asking a favor or for some help, guilty for feeling like a failure, guilt about not saying 'NO!', guilt about having my perp then go after my younger brother and not being able to protect him. Guilt.....It just seems part of the territory.

Chris

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#247662 - 09/01/08 02:07 AM Re: Guilt [Re: G5]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2433
Loc: TEXAS
Hi My friends in recovery.
I can understand where we all are coming from. I have felt and to some extent still guilty. I have had only 3 therapy sessions so far, so I'm no expert on just how we really get this out of our heads. I just told my wife of 35 years my secret, It has come back to me within the last two months, and in the last 30 days with vengance. So like everybody tries to tell you be damn careful who you tell and how much you tell. Would anybody understand? Would anybody comprehend? So after telling my wife she asks me just why I kept going back for more? When total strangers got to me why didn't I holler, why didn't I just run away? I most likely knew what those strange men wanted. I definately knew what my primary abuser wanted, and I instigated more, and I liked it. So now she has made me feel more guilty. I don't feel shame now, but I sure do feel guilty. Heal well my friend.
Pete

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#247678 - 09/01/08 08:26 AM Re: Guilt [Re: kutcher]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: kutcher
It is hard to know if it is a result of the abuse, my parents, my inner make up or what


definitely, all of the above.

some of it has nothing to do with csa per se, but when coupled with the complexities of the issues that further divided us within, it creates a huge stumbling block of unusual proportions.

it is a lifetime's journey to peel away the layers of the onion of self. no one escapes that challenge.

the topic itself reminds me of the old joke:

q: what is the difference between being jewish and being catholic?
a: the jewish are born with guilt, and catholics go to school to learn it.

i hope that joke does not offend anyone, but if it does, let me know and i'll remove it.

your brother in recovery,

ron

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