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#247294 - 08/29/08 05:15 PM What right does he have to hurt me like this?
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Hi All,
I realize this topic may upset some people but I feel I have to at least speak it or I am going to totally explode within myself, destroying what last bit of love I have for the man in my life. Or should I say boy as that is what is seems like he is.

Why is it that pretty much anyone who has had CSA, physical abuse and/or drug abuse issues etc etc feels that it's ok to treat people they supposedly love and care about any old way they wish? Deliberately saying things that can hurt worse than a fist in the mouth? Can a person not make a choice of what they say? Of what action they are going to take?

I make a wonderful home free of conflict for my man but nothing I do is good enough. I know it never will be. So why am I hanging on? He doesn't abuse other people like this. So what right does he have to hurt me like this?


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#247295 - 08/29/08 05:28 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: ChristineTrying]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Crystine Trying (or is it Crying)

I'm not absolutely sure what you are talking about,but here's an answere to my best guess.

When a guy "remembers" his CAS (childhood sexual abuse), his whole concept of who he is changes drastically and irreversibly. Also his concept of who everybody else is changes.

It is not evil. He can't do anything about it except to grow out of it. This takes work and counseling. Yes he may hurt somebody in the process. He needs understanding and forgiveness. He probably has anger issues and more.

Some women are totally unable to have the patience to work with a guy undergoing this. There are a few who succeed.

Allen

Puffer


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#247324 - 08/29/08 08:24 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: pufferfish]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
Quote:


When a guy "remembers" his CAS (childhood sexual abuse), his whole concept of who he is changes drastically and irreversibly. Also his concept of who everybody else is changes.

It is not evil. He can't do anything about it except to grow out of it. This takes work and counseling. Yes he may hurt somebody in the process. He needs understanding and forgiveness. He probably has anger issues and more.


I am in total agreement with the helpful things puffer says here. I've also got to affirm the "righteousness" of Christine's question- No one has the right to be abusive of another even emotionally/verbally- it may be where he's caught right now and his transition to wholenss"", but she is not less loving for not finding it acceptable- abuse , verbal , emotional, whatever, is never justifiable. I always liked the way Mike Lew talked about partners choices- that the healthiest choice FOR BOTH PARTIES is for the partner to Take care of themselves , to set an example of self-care and self- love. There is no shame nor its it "lesser" to leave the relationship when it is not a fulfilling fair relationship- the men were children and weren't empowered to say no to maltreatment. As partners we're adults who can lovingly say no to accepting maltreatment-

I guess my desire here is to say that NEITHER party is evil or lesser- the survivor is just going through what he has to and the partner needs to do what he/she has to for their own wellness. I don't think the survivor wants to be destructive to his partner during his healing process either and a partner's setting limits and leaving if he can't abide by fair limits of behavior, isn't being a less loving or less caring/understanding. I don't think partners should become emotional martyrs, its hard enough to deal with the emotional voids but to then be attacked on top of it.... well it certainly takes it to the painand frustration level Christine is so justified in feeling and in saying, this isn't right! It's just not. The survivor has everyright to be angry, but it's misdirected and thus, very unfair to her.

Sometimes separation is the fairest way to go and that's difficult for partners as well, but not something to feel guilty about if necessary. Love to all!


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#247330 - 08/29/08 08:40 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: ChristineTrying]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ChristineTrying

Why is it that pretty much anyone who has had CSA, physical abuse and/or drug abuse issues etc etc feels that it's ok to treat people they supposedly love and care about any old way they wish?


I don't. It is likely he is still carrying emotional issues from his CSA, but that doesn't give him an excuse. Like in any relationship where CSA is not involved, if you need to bail, then bail. It is not up to you to put up with these things. If you think he can progress and you want to stick around, then see if he is willing to work it out, but you have to put the question to him, perhaps a marriage counsellor would be a good idea. This wouldn't just be about him working thing out in therapy but him working things out with you. Don't let him make excuses, let him know that you understand some of the issues that he has, but that it is not acceptable that he is letting them control him in this way and it is not acceptable for him to treat you in this way. There are never any excuses just understanding, but understanding can only go so far.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish

grow out of it


not the best choice of words, or maybe you think so, but your point is valid in that it is something to work on, just mentioning this christine because if you tell him to grow out of it you will probably get a very bad reaction, it is not something i would like to be told

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#247336 - 08/29/08 08:57 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: An]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Yes, An,

But it's like this. I have seen documentaries on TV a bunch of times about how a guy comes back from war and his leg has been blown off.

Now he is going to have to undergo a time of convalescence and pain. He is going to require some help from others to make him a new artificial limb, and to teach him how to walk on it.

He is not able to fight the "war" at that point. He needs kindness and understanding. If he is angry because of those _ _ _ _ _ who blew his leg off, then we can't throw it back in his face and tell him to "get over it". We have to bear with him and encourage him until he gets back on his feet.

The same is true of a survivor of CSA. He is a needy guy. He needs the kindness and understanding. He needs to be encouraged. He needs counseling and training to help him learn to walk on that new artificial limb.

We don't shoot our survivors in war. Why should we shoot our survivors of CSA?

Allen

Puffer


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#247337 - 08/29/08 09:03 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: An]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Thank you, An.

I agree that CSA is different for males than females to a certain extent and that it can affect each differently. There's no doubt.

I myself was abused my whole childhood and while it wasn't sexual it was extreme emotional and physical at times. This totally left me with no self esteem, no self value, nothing. Well, as I grew up I did not allow those hurtful events from my childhood affect me negatively in my adulthood.

It isn't just the abuse from him being a CSA, other people I've known who were abusers of any sort (drug, alcohol, food, etc), had the same kind of attitude towards others: I'm here only for myself and I don't care who I'm going to step on along the way.

And just because someone suffered abuse at any time in their lives, that doesn't mean they have an automatic excuse to be horrible to others and when they are expect that a 'i'm sorry' will make it all better with the person they hurt.

I appreciate the responses so far and am encouraged in many ways as well as discouraged in many ways.


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#247338 - 08/29/08 09:06 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: king tut]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: king tut
Originally Posted By: pufferfish

grow out of it

not the best choice of words, . . . get a very bad reaction, it is not something i would like to be told


Hey Lewis, I have the highest respect for you and don't wish to start an argument. Thank you for helping me see how my words might be misunderstood.

No, I would never tell a guy to grow out of it. I would never tell you to grow out of it. I agree with you.

What I mean is that they guy cannot unlearn or to back to where he was before. The CSA he experienced cannot be exponged from reality. He can try to forget it but it will bounce back and bite him. He must become a bigger person (hence grow) to accomodate the pain and suffering he has experienced.

Yes, and of course he should try very hard not to hurt anybody else, especially the significant other.

Allen
Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (08/29/08 10:14 PM)

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#247340 - 08/29/08 09:12 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: pufferfish]
ChristineTrying Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 36
Pufferfish,

I agree he needs caring and kindness. Well, so do the other people involved in his life. It just seems to me that sometimes...and I understand this is going to get a LOT OF FLACK from people.... because someone suffers something, even like you said, losing a leg or arm or whatever in war, or being abused or any kind of challenge to their life, those of us around that person are expected to accept ANY type of behavior directed at us. We're expected to just 'be patient and understanding' and just 'let it go'.

I can't have a normal discussion with my man about anything but what he blows up at me. Maybe he is resenting me now because I had a relatively normal childhood (even with the physical and emotional abuse I suffered) and I seem to have no issues whatsoever. Maybe to him I'm perfect and something that he'll never achieve no matter what he does and because of that, he has to make me feel lower than dirt.

I don't know. I loved him. I feel sorry for him for his pain. I can't take it away from him. I can't make it better. I've stood by him during one of the roughest times in his life. And I can't even get a smile out of him. Only hurtful mean words and snotty attitude.

I'm not shooting him or disrespecting him or anything like that. When does one know whether to stay or whether to go? (No I'm not going to post the Clash here right now)


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#247343 - 08/29/08 10:03 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: ChristineTrying]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
What I have to remember is that I am solely responsible for my actions towards my wife and children. When I respond out of my brokenness towards them, it behooves me to own my stuff and begin the process of making it right. There is no amount of abuse from my past that makes treating the love of my life and children like crap. Even though I have had those moments in my life, unfortunately.

I take responsibility for getting professional help, including inpatient rehab for addiction and ongoing counseling (ten years worth). My wife has been through hell and back with me and has been inordinately patient with me and this process. She also owns "her stuff".. I will leave for her to define and support her as she continues to work through. She has told me that the only reason she has stayed is because I have worked so hard and have not given up. I don't believe this gig is for every spouse.

_________________________
GD

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#247344 - 08/29/08 10:09 PM Re: What right does he have to hurt me like this? [Re: pufferfish]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Oh no i didn't mean to offend or ridicule your choice of words (really i didn't mean it like that, but it definitely looks like i did, you probably wont believe me because it really does look like i was attacking you), but actually i do see that i shouldn't have quoted you in that way now sorry, i shouldn't have done that but i didn't intend it to look so bad i will think before i act in the future. I know how you meant it and you have clarified it even better, it was just a reaction i had to reading those words that struck me, i guess it is my own personal problem and that "why don't you just forget about it" thing that has been playing in my mind lately which it reminded me of and really nothing to do with your response, i just read it wrong. I pointed it out because i thought it needed mentioning at the time. It must have just been on my mind and the more i look at it the less i see it in your words- grrr i am angry at myself now- i can't even see it in your words now at all and i thought i was quite clear minded tonight but obviously not, damn, thanks for pointing that out it gives me quite a lot to think about actually. More and more i am realising how these things in my mind influence me even when i don't realise, the way i look at things, the way i read things, my confidence in doing things, but then that is an excuse and i don't mean to make excuses i should have been able to interpret it as you wrote it and i am sorry. God i wish i didn't keep realising these things, i will have to be more careful in future. Ok, enough of me hijacking this thread with this.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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