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#246262 - 08/23/08 02:12 PM Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for death
Barkabus Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
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This story just turns my stomach! The death penalty is too good for this monster! How did this predator pedophile slip through the cracks?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26352177/

Jury: Confessed killer eligible for death
Jurors must now decide whether 45-year-old should be executed
The Associated Press
updated 2:37 p.m. PT, Fri., Aug. 22, 2008
BOISE, Idaho - A federal jury on Friday deemed Joseph Edward Duncan III eligible for the death penalty for the 2005 kidnapping, torture and murder of a 9-year-old Idaho boy.

The jury deliberated for two hours before issuing its unanimous ruling. When the hearing resumes next week, jurors must decide whether Duncan should be put to death.

Duncan didn't react to the verdict and opted not to have each juror individually polled to double-check their decision. The slain boy's father, Steven Groene, and other family supporters embraced after the verdict but seemed to keep their emotions in check.

Duncan, who acted as his own attorney, will have the chance next week to convince jurors to give him life in prison without the possibility of parole instead of a death sentence.

The jury's sentencing recommendation is binding on U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge.

Duncan, 45, kidnapped Dylan Groene and his then-8-year-old sister, Shasta, in May 2005 after murdering their older brother, their mother and her fiance in the Coeur d'Alene area. The two young children were taken deep into the Lolo National Forest, where they endured weeks of horrendous abuse at Duncan's hands.

Duncan ultimately shot the boy point-blank in the head while his sister watched. He was arrested after returning to Coeur d'Alene, where a waitress recognized Shasta as the two ate at a Denny's restaurant.

Depth of his 'heinousness'
Friday's verdict was not surprising after Duncan's closing arguments, in which he told the jurors they didn't yet "have a clue" about the depth of his "heinousness."

Duncan also told the panel that government lawyers helped him victimize the jurors by making them watch and listen to the grotesque evidence that was presented during the two-week hearing.

"I should actually thank the government for helping me get my eye for an eye by showing you the evidence that you've seen, the videos," Duncan said during his closing argument Friday.

Prosecutors showed jurors videos Duncan made in which he molested, tortured and hanged Dylan Groene until the boy was unconscious and nearly dead.

Duncan told jurors that by presenting the evidence, the government was "helping me to take away your heart and your innocence," Duncan said. "That's what they have done, and I should thank them but I won't."

Duncan said he wasn't in court because he was caught, but because Shasta Groene — the sole survivor of the kidnapping and attack — didn't judge him for his actions, prompting him to take her home.

Planned attacks
The rampage was the culmination of years of planning, he said, and he originally intended to rape and kill until he was killed.

Duncan, a convicted pedophile originally from Tacoma, Wash., has pleaded guilty to federal and state counts including murder. The federal jury is considering the death penalty on charges related to the kidnappings and Dylan's murder, but he also could face execution on state counts for the killing of the children's three family members.

In December, Duncan pleaded guilty to 10 federal counts in connection with the crimes against Dylan and Shasta. Three of those counts qualified him for the death penalty, the jury found — kidnapping resulting in the death of a child, sexual exploitation of a child resulting in death and using a firearm during the commission of a crime of violence resulting in death.

Duncan has a long string of arrests and convictions for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle in 1996 and is charged with killing a young boy in Riverside County, Calif., in 1997.

A witness testified for the prosecution on Thursday that Duncan had raped him at gunpoint in 1980, when the man was just 14 years old.

The Associated Press' policy generally does not identify victims of sexual assault. In Shasta and Dylan Groene's cases, however, the search for the children was so heavily publicized that their names are widely known.





Edited by ModTeam (08/23/08 02:58 PM)
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#246265 - 08/23/08 02:51 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for death [Re: Barkabus]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
I've been following this closely since the crime occurred. This is one instance where I am not torn. The death penalty is appropriate. There is no help for this man and at this point, I don't believe he is entitled to it. He stole 4 lives in totality; he wrecked the life of a little girl and he sentenced her family and countless other human collateral damage to a nightmare for life.

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#246303 - 08/23/08 07:08 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for death [Re: Trish4850]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
We were visiting with relatives just out of Coeur D'Alene the weekend the original murders were discovered, and the young brother and sister were found to be missing. The relatives we were visiting with were less than a mile from the house where it occurred. It was a difficult weekend as all comings and goings in the relatively secluded area were considered worth investigating by the state police.

So yeah, I've been following this story also. It seems that there are some crimes for which no mercy is necessary. I have a hard time believing in the sanctity of life in cases like this, but am so glad I'm not the one on the jury who has to make the decision. I think it would destroy me.

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#246310 - 08/23/08 08:07 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for death [Re: WalkingSouth]
LN3(SS) Offline
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Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
My only problem here is that most jurisdictions in the US have moved to lethal injection as the mode of execution. For someone like this, such mercy is totally inappropriate. Maybe death by hanging or firing squad, both without the option of the black hood. Definitely not painless, swift, merciful execution.

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#246385 - 08/24/08 01:01 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for deat [Re: WalkingSouth]
Barkabus Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Oh John,

I am terribly sorry that you have a direct connection to the family of this horribly, senseless tragedy. This has got to be an example of what an absolute worst case scenario looks like and I'm sorry that you are connect to it. I felt genuine rage when I read this. Is that my anger phase finally settling in? I don't know.

My deepest sympathies to you and to the family.

Mike

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#246402 - 08/24/08 03:39 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for deat [Re: Barkabus]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Mike,

Just to clarify, I'm not in any way related to the individuals in this story. We just had the misfortune to be visiting some relatives who lived close to the scene of the original crime when it was discovered. It made our visit with family a bit stressful and difficult due to the heavy police presence in the area, not to mention shocking to me.

I was in the early stages of recovery at the time and to have this story break and see it on the news knowing what I was seeing on the tube was taking place quite close to my physical location was quite stressful.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#246405 - 08/24/08 04:01 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for deat [Re: WalkingSouth]
Barkabus Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Thanks for the clarification John. When you said "relatives" in your first post I assumed relatives of the victims. I agree with you though, I'm sure it was tremendously shocking for you.

Mike

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#246458 - 08/25/08 07:04 AM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for deat [Re: Barkabus]
William K Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 5
Loc: FL
This sicko really should have died a long time ago. They should study his past and find out what makes him tick if it could help others in the future it would be worth it. I cant even think that there are more people like that walking around it will make me insane with anxiety, that could happen to my family? I would kill that thing myself no hesitations.

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#246898 - 08/27/08 10:34 PM Re: Jury: Confessed Idaho killer eligible for deat [Re: William K]
Stretch73 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 336
Loc: Sea Isle City, NJ
I don't believe in the death penalty for two reasons.

(1)The justice system has been known to make "fatal" errors in the past, sentencing innocent people to die. It could kill 100 people, but if just one is innocent and put to death, that is unjust.

(2)Most people who are guilty, or whom admit guilt of something so barbaric as what this asshole did, don't deserve the luxury of death, in my humbled opinion. They deserve to live, but to suffer a similar fate as his victim.

I remember when those children were abducted. I had been working for the department at the time, and we had MCP's (Missing Children Photos) faxed to us. When it was discovered what happened, and this sick bastard was arrested and later admitted, and even explained in detail what he did, it was nothing short of sickening to me.

Let me tell you guys something... These people don't "slip through the cracks." We know who they are. We know their names and their numbers are in the thousands. The problem is that the law states that after a guilty person is punished, he is "Set free." It's just the way the law goes. For guys like me, who are or were in law enforcement, it's difficult to arrest these assholes one day, just to watch them walk a couple days later. Pychiatrists, and prison therpist, and defense attorneys are predominately screwing up the system. These people aren't slipping through the cracks at all, it's the "experts" and attorneys finding a bullshit way to squeeze those guilty through the cracks.

If his sentence were up to me, I'd put him in General Pop. in a state prison, and every year I'd send him to different prisons around the country to do time. Then just before he dies of old age, if he makes it that far, I'd send him to Leavenworth.

Sick son of bitch! And as a society, we're allowing it to happen. We are just as guilty as anyone. We no longer stand vigilent and protective of our children, because we assume if they are not using the internet then they are safe, but no worries about the neighbors you barely know who live across the street or next door.

If we want this shit to end, we need to get a message out there to the perpetrators that this is unacceptable behavior, and as a society, we're not going to stand for offensive behavior against our innocent children, and the only way I see fit to do this is by electing politicians who truly care and have a history of protecting our children. We can no longer standby, idle, and hope that someone else does something to prevent future crimes like this.


"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict; the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine

Is the conflict of protecting our children, our next generation of leaders, and doctors, and policemen, and mothers, and teachers... to difficult to believe that we could be triumphant in the end? Or is it just easier to let someone else deal with it, because you're not a parent, or nobody was there to protect you as a child? Think about it!

Shake and stir this.

Rich

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"I was so poor growing up, that if I wasn't born a boy, I wouldn't have had anything to play with." Rodney Dangerfield

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#246947 - 08/28/08 02:34 AM News Update ****Triggers in this post**** [Re: Stretch73]
William K Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 5
Loc: FL
Thank you for your input.

BOISE, Idaho - A longtime sex offender was sentenced to death Wednesday for the 2005 kidnapping, torture and murder of a 9-year-old northern Idaho boy after federal jurors who watched video of some of the brutality deliberated just three hours.

ADVERTISEMENT

The jurors' recommendation was binding on U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, who thanked them, dismissed them and then sentenced Joseph Edward Duncan III.

Relatives of the victim, Dylan Groene, remained somber as the jury's decision was announced. Duncan murdered Dylan's mother, older brother and his mother's fiance to kidnap him and his younger sister, who was sexually abused along with her brother but survived.

"We're happy with the verdict, but it's a shame — this should have been limited to one death," said Steven Groene, the father of the children. "He should have had the courage and the guts to kill himself before killing anyone else."

Duncan showed no reaction other than smiling as the verdict was passed to the judge.

He took Dylan and the boy's then-8-year-old sister, Shasta, to a remote western Montana campsite where he raped, tortured and threatened them before shooting Dylan in the head and burning his body. Jurors viewed horrifying video Duncan made of him sexually abusing, torturing and hanging Dylan until the boy lost consciousness.

"This defendant is dangerous. He is a predator who takes pride in his work," prosecutor Traci Whelan said. "He earned this day. His actions ... call out for the death penalty."

Duncan acted as his own attorney but had offered no response to prosecutors' closing argument.

"I have no argument," he told the court.

With an eye toward kidnapping the two children, Duncan stalked their family. In 2005 he entered their Coeur d'Alene-area home and used a hammer to fatally bludgeon their 13-year-old brother, Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie.

Duncan was arrested and Shasta rescued weeks after the kidnappings when a waitress at a Denny's in Coeur d'Alene called police after recognizing the two as they ate.

Duncan pleaded guilty in December to 10 federal charges involving the kidnappings and the murder of Dylan. He pleaded guilty to the other three murders in state court, where he also could be sentenced to death.

After the verdict, the jurors were whisked away from the federal courthouse in two white vans so they could avoid the phalanx of media covering the hearing.

"The jury speaks the mind of the community," U.S. Attorney Tom Moss said. "By the verdict today, they have given voice to the victims."

In closing arguments, Whelan reminded the jury of Duncan's lifelong "pattern of violence," including a conviction for raping a boy at gunpoint in 1980. Duncan has told investigators he killed two half-sisters from Seattle in 1996, and he is charged with killing a young boy in Riverside County, Calif., in 1997.

Duncan may now be brought to Riverside County to stand trial in the death of Anthony Martinez.

Darlene Torres, Brenda Groene's mother, said she is glad the federal case is over.

"Justice has been served," Torres said. "It's been very painful."

She said that when she saw Duncan in court, "I seen nothing but an evil, empty, coldhearted shell."

It's hard to tell if the end of the federal case will offer any comfort to Shasta, her father said.

"I can't speak for Shasta, I can't get inside her head," Groene said. "Possibly now we'll have to be dragged through a court proceeding in California. If they go ahead with the prosecution, it would be such as waste of taxpayer money because he'll never spend a day in a California prison."

The heinousness of the evidence in Dylan's murder made it particularly difficult for the jurors to remain impartial as they deliberate, said Art Patterson, a jury consultant and senior vice president of the trial consulting firm DecisionQuest.

"Generally, for human beings, it's pretty hard to maintain impartiality when confronted with such horror," Patterson said.

"How could any juror not want to see this person removed from our list of living human beings? How could you live with yourself as a juror if there's any chance this human being could escape from jail and do something like this again?" Patterson said.

edited to add trigger warning



Edited by walkingsouth (08/29/08 01:17 AM)
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