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#246043 - 08/21/08 04:14 PM Why can't I just be Homo ?
Joel Rosset Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Is it absolutly necessary to be Gay. I mean come on, not all of us are.Other than the habitual sexual practices, I have absolutly nothing in common with Gay men. My identity is not defined by who I am sexually. Please don't misunderstand me, Gay is just fine if that is how you identify. But what about us other guys, comforatble in being guys into guys, but who cringe at being thought of as being part and parcel with the Gay culture. Is there no place where I fit ? Sometimes I feel as rhough I've been set adrift on an ice flow, doomed to never connect with anyone who speaks the same language as me. I'm Homo. I like being Homo and I don't want to be anything else. Why is it that my culture insist that I be Gay for that?

Sweet Boy



Edited by Joel Rosset (08/21/08 04:16 PM)
_________________________
Wise souls are deeply scarred

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#246049 - 08/21/08 04:38 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Joel Rosset]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Because our culture is thoroughly riddled and contaminated by sexism and patriarchy and can only conceive of sexuality in binary terms: male or female, gay or straight.

The truth of the matter is that everyone falls on a continuum and very few people are 0's on the Kinsey scale (absolutely heterosexual) or 6's (absolutely homosexual).

You mention "gay culture": no such thing exists. There is only a "gay community" because people with same-sex orientation are discriminated against and oppressed and therefore need to band together in solidarity.

I make distinction between "homosexual" and "gay." They are not, to me, synonymous. A person is homosexual if his primary sexual attraction is toward other men. A person is "gay," IMO, if in defiance of the heterosexist patriarchy he acknowledges his homosexual orientation and integrates it into an organic and inseparable part of his identity. There are many homosexuals who are not "gay" -- generally they are severely in denial, or trapped in the closet. They can be pastors of evangelical megachurches with a taste for hustlers or conservative Senators who lurk in public restrooms. They are not "gay" because they deny and hide their orientation and refuse to acknowledge it. A person "comes out" and becomes "gay" when he has the courage to acknowledge his orientation and integrate it into his life -- not a secret he has to hide.

There is no such thing as "gay culture" because there are gay men of every conceivable class, creed, and culture. The only things we all have in common is our non-straight sexuality and our common experience of repression and persecution and our common resistance against repression and persecution. In a perfect world where there was no heterosexist patriarchy, there would be no "gays" or "straights" -- just human beings.

We're not there yet.

Since there is an infinite variety of gay men, there are guaranteed to be men like you who feel as you do. You just have to look for them. The internet is powerful tool of social connection that previous generations did not have. Use it!

Dan

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#246052 - 08/21/08 05:05 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: VLinvictus]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
...........................Dan

.............................for

...................President!


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#246057 - 08/21/08 06:06 PM Re: Why can't I NOT 'just be Homo' ? [Re: Joel Rosset]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
read what drs. toby johnson and
robert minor

have to say about the subject. yes they are two of my personal heroes.

toby's book "gay spirituality" is a great book for anyone looking for an alternative perspective to the religious right's contrived notions regarding what>
_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#246069 - 08/21/08 07:29 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Joel Rosset]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Joel,

You can be anything that you want; you can call yourself anything that you want. They are just words. I really agree with Dan about the 'culture' thing. We're all unique individuals, we're all different in our own ways, and some of us are just regular ordinary looking guys who happen to love other regular ordinary looking guys.

Myself, I'm just a regular guy. I denied my sexuality for a few decades and I'm out now. I have a spouse who is a wonderful guy; we've been together for over four years and recently got married. I identify with more inclusive groups because I'm too old to put up with the BS of some group or another trying to tell me why I'm not up to their standards. Nobody is perfect but there are an awful lot of hypocrites out there who say one thing and do something entirely different.


Just be true to yourself. Take good care of yourself,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#246070 - 08/21/08 07:33 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: VLinvictus]
Joel Rosset Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Thanks Dan, but in all my thirty + years of sexual activity I have never allowed anyone to repress me for my sexual orientation. And that's precisly my point. I do what I want, in spite of who may think what. I just don't let other's opinions shspe my life and because I don't hide who I am, I get labelled Gay. I'm just an adult male with a personal sex life, like everyone else, right ? So why the labels ?

And I'm sorry, but Oh yes my freind there is a 'Gay Culture'. I've been araound since the days when guys like me could be and often were arrested for being homo and I've never fit in with that culture of Gay mentality of us versus them and I'm so proud that I'm a ****sucker.No one has been allowed to deprive me of my rights as a citizen because I just don't stand for it and I've never felt that I had to defend that. It's amazing what people will allow you to do when you simply assume the right.

_________________________
Wise souls are deeply scarred

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#246171 - 08/22/08 12:01 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Joel Rosset]
ineffable Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Welcome to the site.

The greeting that I have heard others use that seems to fit is:
"Glad you found us, but sorry that you needed to."

I recently read "Androphilia" by this author .
You might find it interesting.

_________________________
:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::


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#246190 - 08/22/08 06:47 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: ineffable]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
i don't fit with gay or straight people

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#246192 - 08/22/08 06:54 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Nate]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
none of us do really nate; we just want to believe so desperately that we do. at some point life catches up and you realize it never really mattered after all.

your brother in recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#246580 - 08/26/08 05:13 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Sans Logos]
peacefulhealing Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 9
What makes us survivors? Is it not on the same lines as what makes "gays" gay? I'm gay, and I'm a survivor of sexual child abuse. I'm an American, too. Sometimes it helps to say that I am these things, becuase it has been challenging, or it is challenging at times to be these things.

I've had a lot of anger towards the gay community, have had anger against Americans (even though I am one) and have had anger for survivors of abuse (I have always considered myself a pro-survivor). All of this being said, anger has played a large role in my recovery, whether I do recover, or don't recover.

Anger has been linked, not just to my frustration, but to my sadness, to my regrets...I think, "Why do I have to say I'm gay? Why do I have to say I was abused by my stepfather? Why do I have to committ to the nation of my birth?" I don't always agree with the community at large, even though I am part of that community. I have chosen that road, and I have also been presented with that choice through my circumstances.

It's hard to admit, first, the truth of what I am in this body, in this life. The truth of what happened to me as child. And the truth how I've conducted my life post. I have had hatered in my heart for parts of myself, and when I see others that portray certain characteristics about myself (I'm very femme) I become hateful of them too. This hate, this anger eats away at my heart. I resist these titles, and in doing so, I feel there is a part of myself that I resist. To truly accept myself, without being caught in myself, or my idea of self (because I'm Buddhist and don't agree with a separate self) that is my personal challenge, that is my Karma if you will. That is my journey of recovery, recovering the beauty of my heart: Love, preciousness, freedom and responsibility.

I have a responsibility to my country, and to the people I accept as lovers. I have responsibility to other survivors, because I have survived. This journey as a surivor is one that I can share with others, and when I share my experiences, my triumphs, and my challenges, I feel nourished, and I believe I nourish other survivors and friends of survivors too.

The heart can grow cold. When the heart grows cold with anger, hatered, violence, the habit and the energy of abuse continues in oneself, and in society. Love, Truth and Beauty is the reality of an open heart, an open mind, and a body that breathes life and recovery, for the benefit of all.

For me, it's more than just agree or disagree it is about what creates more or less suffering. It is inevitable, there will be some pains in life, some hurts, some separation, something that may cause illbeing. Anger doesn't help anyone. Fear, prejudice, doesn't help anything. But love, love heals all wounds. When there is love, there is deep listening, there is openness, honesty, and vulnerability. Being able to show our strengths and our weakness, that is being human.

Thank you to everyone for listening, and for sharing your heartfelt sentiments. Keep Thriving!


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#248301 - 09/05/08 06:17 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: peacefulhealing]
Alun Offline


Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 6
Loc: UK
i ma just about coming to terms with my sexual identity...the politics will no doubt come later


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#248355 - 09/06/08 12:00 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: peacefulhealing]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Joel does bring up an interesting point in his original post though. "Gay culture" is that commercial, packaged deal that drives gay media, gay merchandising, and many gay clubs and bars. It is the most visible part of the gay community that has come to dominate and define us because it is the part of the gay community that the straight community holds up to represent us all. Because our culture doesn't allow us to grown naturally into our identities from childhood, we learn about these identities in these prepackaged categories. If we don't how to connect to the community on a personal level, we enter into through this commercial, media driven lens that distorts, stereotypes and create caricatures of homosexual men.

I know what you mean Joel that you don't feel like you fit in with the gay community. But what I've really come to find is that there are a lot of guys that are just like you. They consider themselves really normal, average guys that are like any straight guy, but they are homosexual. The biggest problem is, how do you find each other.

Michael


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#248429 - 09/07/08 01:46 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: M3]
Joel Rosset Offline


Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Thank You Micheal! You got me.I'm just a guy who is queer, what's the big deal ? Why oh why does it have to be an issue for everyone else ? I just get so tired of the standard question - Are you Gay Joel ? I always answer, no I'm not. I like who I am and I'm not in anyway ashamed of my sexuality, but Gay Pride ? I'm sorry fellas but that I don't get. Never have I allowed anyone or anything to stop me from what I want simply because I'm into guys. I've never had to fight for my rights because I simply don't allow anyone to trounce them.Besides the person that I may be having sex with, just the hell whose business is it ? Ya Know ? Yeah, Micheal, you do know ! Thanks man !

_________________________
Wise souls are deeply scarred

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#251604 - 09/28/08 11:14 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: peacefulhealing]
Fissy Tsickens Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia
No "gays" or "straights" - just human beings. Thanks, Dan. From your mouth to God's ears.

_________________________
Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

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#251615 - 09/28/08 12:16 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
Liri Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor
New Here

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Seattle, WA
My difficulty is that I more easily identify (and fall in love with) dead gay writers instead of living homosexual men. I've never had a dead gay writer try to take advantage of me (well, maybe Capote). I've tried to overcome this by joining a gay community organization, and to my surprise, I've found living men to be as varied and complex as their predecessors-- if I give them a chance. Now I have GAY friends that, although they watch Project Runway and Top Model, have more than two dimensions. It seems I've been objectifying gay men into a stereotype, diminishing them so as not to feel threatened by them. I'm pretty sure I'm a bisexual man, but I very well may be GAY. At least, my inner boy likes playing dress-up and prancing around!

_________________________
As a small child, I felt in my heart two contradictory feelings, the horror of life and the ecstasy of life. --Charles Baudelaire

My Story

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#251722 - 09/28/08 11:40 PM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: Liri]
Joren Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 51
Loc: US
Michael (M3) has a point in that "gay culture" is what is held up to revile us with. Many take pride in flaunting this perception, which does nothing but reinforce it in the minds of others.

I do think, however, that many small towns have such small communities that the media is the only place they have had to "learn" how to be gay. I find it sad that they think they had to learn how when all they need to do is be themselves, but there it is.

I could wish for the money to pack up and move elsewhere, but for many trapped in small towns by the economy there just isn't a choice.


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#253522 - 10/08/08 01:58 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: peacefulhealing]
dusty42 Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kentucky
Dusty42 has deleted this message. I no longer feel safe here.



Edited by dusty42 (03/18/09 03:41 PM)
Edit Reason: I no longer feel safe here
_________________________
Pinky: "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."

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#253526 - 10/08/08 02:53 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: dusty42]
joelRT Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
Marry me!!! OK, I'm teasing. But thank you for getting it. It seems that everytime I express that I'm just queer and not Gay, some fag gets up in my face about how I just don't accept myself, about how hard they have had to fight for their rights etc.

These little P***ks don't realize that I'm of the generation when I guy like me could legally be arrested for being a C***sucker, ya know?

But because I'm a guy whose into men I'm supposed to have a rainbow enbroirdred to my pack back? I don't think so.

I think Gay is a perfectly fine thing to be, if that's what a guy is. It's just that most homosexual men do not define themselves as Gay, in spite of what the militants want society to believe. Oh geez, I'm doing it again - ranting. I'll shut up now...

_________________________
My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

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#253808 - 10/09/08 02:01 AM Re: Why can't I just be Homo ? [Re: joelRT]
dusty42 Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kentucky
Dusty42 has deleted this message. I no longer feel safe here.



Edited by dusty42 (03/18/09 03:40 PM)
Edit Reason: I no longer feel safe here
_________________________
Pinky: "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."

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