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#242808 - 08/06/08 06:03 PM Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce?
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Hey survivors, please help me -

My H has started talking all over again about divorcing. He says he does not know why he is miserable, only he keeps telling me, "You deserve better...." Well, why he thinks I deserve something so wonderful as starting over as a single mom, I don't know.

Question: Can a person's own guilt cause him to be cruel to the one he wronged? I have forgive him totally long ago, but he still avoids me and can't seem to get past his own guilt.

Have you ever heard of a man being unfaithful and then divorcing his wife only because merely being near her 'reminded' him of his wrong against her? Must guilt be so destructive to both spouses?

I feel he is punishing me along with himself. He is hurtful, cold, avoidant, etc. He probably doesn't realize how much he hurts me at times.

I don't know what to do. Once again I am desperately trying to save my family.

Please help me understand this - I welcome any and all suggestions/insight/experiences, whatever.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#242813 - 08/06/08 06:35 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
"He is hurtful, cold, avoidant, etc. He probably doesn't realize how much he hurts me at times."

I can't help you Brokenhearted. I am going through the same thing but don't have any answers. My husband is exactly what you describe above. His rationale though isn't that I deserve better, but rather than he doesn't love me. We've only been married a really short time so I don't know how it changed so quickly.

All I can say is that you probably won't get him to see how much he is hurting you. You have to find a way to either deal with it or to move on. It is possible that he is just thinking out loud but not really prepared to take action. Sometimes people say things that put themselves down because they want someone to build them back up again. I don't know.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#242814 - 08/06/08 06:47 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Junefriday]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
It may be more shame and it's effect on self-esteem than guilt. There is a good book called SELF-ESTEEM, that I recommended the other day, by Matthew McKay, PH.D. and Patrick Fanning, that I have found helpful. A man's self-esteem is so important to his success in relationships and in employment.

Have hope,

Mark



_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#242817 - 08/06/08 06:58 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Trucker51]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I can only say from my experience that I was tired of HURTING other people, family/friends/relationships. I felt and still do that the pain I cause myself, I can live with. But I just felt so bad/sad that because of the way I feel and because of my CSA, that others too had to suffer.

I so understand you want to save your family and that you probably still love your H. I don't know if you are seeking professional help, but I would strongly recommend it. As much as I did love my GF who did live with me until April, I am so much happier and content now that we both have "moved On". Now the only person I can hurt is myself.

It certainly does not help you with your question, it is just my thoughts on your subject.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#242835 - 08/06/08 08:34 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: KENKEN]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Sometimes though, if survivors would show that they know how much they are hurting us, it could make us feel better. Then again, it would likely give us false hope. And being the way we are, we'd want to stick it out and "help them get better". Truth is, only the survivor can control that.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#242859 - 08/06/08 09:47 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Junefriday]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
BH,

Guilt is horribly destructive when misplaced. His guilt over what he did to you is not. Does that mean he can't work through it? No, it doesn't. I guess the problem arises because he isn't working through it. He's allowing it to confirm his already rotten feelings about himself which is blanketing you and not allowing your ability to forgive him to get through so he can forgive himself. I don't have the answers for you friend, but I feel your pain so clearly. Unfortunately you can't be the only one working to save your family, you can only save yourself and your daughter to create a different family if he won't help himself and work to keep it together.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#242871 - 08/06/08 10:36 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Thanks everyone for your words. Such a tough thing we're all going through.

I had written an email to my H just saying how I was feeling really bad and lonely and how it hurts that he tells our daughter 'I love you' and 'I miss you' and says nothing to me. It is so obvious and hurtful.

He wrote back:
"I'm sorry you feel this way. You how much I care for you. I realize that caring is different from loving someone. I just feel so detached from what we used to have. I do not know what to tell you - the only thing I really know today is that god gave us (our daughter's name) as our special gift. We both love her very much, I wish I could give you what you want, I'm sorry."

This is so hard for me b/c, then I start wondering, Is it the CSA? Is it the PTSD? Is it his guilt? OR DOES HE JUST NOT LOVE ME ANYMORE? I don't think he knows what love is - he told me that once. Why does he say caring and love are so different? Maybe he can't recognize love for what it is? I'm so sad and upset about this.

I'm fighting with him so hard to try to make this work. It seems to have started getting strange around the time we lost our first baby. Before then, for 9 years things were great according to us both. He can't even say why he feels the way he does. He keeps saying, "it's not you, it's me..." and "you deserve way better, that's all..." Argh, it makes me crazy!

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#242874 - 08/06/08 10:38 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Ken,

Did you and your GF have any problems you could pinpoint? Because with us, it's like, there are no problems, but he just feels detached, he keeps saying he "can't get close to" me, even though he says he tries very hard.

I was just wondering if y'all had a perfectly good relationship otherwise.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#242880 - 08/06/08 11:17 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: Brokenhearted
Question: Can a person's own guilt cause him to be cruel to the one he wronged? I have forgive him totally long ago, but he still avoids me and can't seem to get past his own guilt.

Absolutely it can. It can sometimes play a huge part in the way a person acts in my opinion. I wish it were different, but it's not.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#242932 - 08/07/08 10:07 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: WalkingSouth]
Abigale Offline


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Northern NJ
Gosh Broken
I didn't read your post I read your private message first. Just hang in there. We need to pull the strengh from deep within and get through this. I really don't think they know how much it hurts us. I read somewhere that if everyone they trusted hurt them, then they look at us that we are going to hurt them and leave them, so why not be the one in charge and hurt us and leave us. Its kind of like a mind game, they are not the ones being hurt they are the hurters.
I don't know if this makes any sence to you.
You are in my prayers.


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#242944 - 08/07/08 12:08 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Abigale]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Last night he said he doesn't love me anymore. I told him love is a decision, not a feeling (or rather, in his case, lack of feeling). He thinks that's a bunch of bull.

His reason is that I deserve better. I told him it doesn't matter what he's done in the past, he belongs with me. He said I deserve so much better.

Looks like the end is near - it is his decision, not mine, but I cannot fight him forever on this. It is exhausting and hurtful. He repeated over again that it's not me, it's him... That his 'not loving' me has nothing to do with me! I got angry and told him I hope that one day he loves someone as much as I have loved him, and that the person does to him what he's doing to me, takes away his family life and future and says they don't love him anymore.

I have to get a job and pay off some of my own credit cards. Then I guess it's separate ways.

He still says, "Let's just take it one day at a time." And I thought I heart him mumble "....don't know what the hell I want," and, "I just need time and space....."

If only I could get him to go talk to someone first.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#242950 - 08/07/08 12:30 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Brokenhearted
Last night he said he doesn't love me anymore. I told him love is a decision, not a feeling (or rather, in his case, lack of feeling). He thinks that's a bunch of bull.
He repeated over again that it's not me, it's him... That his 'not loving' me has nothing to do with me! I got angry and told him I hope that one day he loves someone as much as I have loved him,
I heart him mumble "....don't know what the hell I want," and, "I just need time and space....."

If only I could get him to go talk to someone first.

Dear Brokenhearted,

This sounds so much like something my wife and I went through about 10 years ago. His words to you sound a lot like things that I said to her and now wish that I could have changec.

A man who is unwinding the effects of CSA in his life feels so full of the emotion of the abuse that he feels unable to love anybody. The flashbacks are quite compelling and difficult to deal with. But that will pass if the guy is able to unpack the emotions and feelings of the CSA.

Does he have a professional counselor or therapist? I have told my T that my wife needed someone who can explain to her what I was going through. I was not able to communicate this to her at the time. It seems that even the T was unable to deal with what you and I are discussing.

Then what happened is that my wife and I were separated for about a year. I took care of my sick mother in a distant state. This allowed both my wife and I to get our emotions together. I continued in counseling during that time and then when we got back together we were able to start rebuilding our relationship from that point. It worked.

If you can, avoid anger. Even get your own counselor to help you grow so that you aren't reacting to him. Remember that when a guy is unpacking his CSA he often feels like a little boy. He is not able to love, just as a little kid is not able to give unselfish love.

Guilt is part of the package of CSA that needs to be unpacked. I hope he has some help outside of yourself to help him with this.

Puffer


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#242958 - 08/07/08 12:40 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: pufferfish]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Gee, Puffer, your own situation almost gives me hope. Maybe we just need a long separation. I've been trying to get him to talk to someone by himself. I can't push him, you know.

I don't think he makes the connection of any of what he's going through, to his abuse. He links it to his real guilt about cheating on me. He's yet to make the intellectual connection to his abuse. I read that guilt can paralyze a person from feeling emotions, especially positive ones. Also PTSD can prevent a person from feeling loving toward loved ones. Many things he's said before do indicate he has some PTSD: "I don't feel anything...I don't trust anyone...etc."

I will hope for a separation first before the big D. I will esp. hope he will get himself a T. I have had one and they are a great help. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#242963 - 08/07/08 12:54 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Does he know WHY he cheated on you?

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#242983 - 08/07/08 01:54 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
mike5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted By: Brokenhearted
It seems to have started getting strange around the time we lost our first baby.


That sounds like a key point there - My wife and I lost three babies and it had a devastating effect on me and our relationship. To over simplify, I felt that I'd failed as a father and I tied the physical pain that my wife experienced to the deep spiritual/sexual connections of conceiving. Even though that doesn't make any rational sense, that is something I still struggle with letting go of. Even though I say it wasn't anyone's fault, I don't believe that. Inside I "know" it was my fault and that it was related to how "bad" I was/am for being abused as a boy. I wonder if your husband is having a hard time letting go of similar incorrect (but powerful!) thoughts?

Mike


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#243023 - 08/07/08 05:15 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: mike5]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Hmmm. June Friday, no, he does not know 'why' he cheated. When I'd ask he'd just say, "I don't know, maybe I couldn't get close to you so I cheated," " or, I don't know ,maybe I was looking for something I felt was missing..." Just vague answers. Incidentally he did not cheat just once, it seemed to start up a trend for him and he's done it many times since. He said he can control it, but he also says he'll probably go 2-3 more years and then end up cheating again, that he can't promise me he won't.

mike5, I'm so sorry for all the losses you and your wife have had. One is bad enough. I am sure it affected him because it is traumatic and he cried while it was going on. Maybe he had the fling to distance himself from me or something. But what matters is I think that really was about the starting point of all of this craziness. Thank you for your own views and I may try to ask him if he's had similar thoughts/feelings about our loss.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#243036 - 08/07/08 06:02 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Brokenhearted
He said I deserve so much better.

Looks like the end is near - it is his decision, not mine, but I cannot fight him forever on this. It is exhausting and hurtful. He repeated over again that it's not me, it's him...

I have to get a job and pay off some of my own credit cards. Then I guess it's separate ways.

He still says, "Let's just take it one day at a time." And I thought I heart him mumble "....don't know what the hell I want," and, "I just need time and space....."

If only I could get him to go talk to someone first.




Brokenhearted - I have written those exact words on this site. I read your story and it was like I was reading my story. The only difference is my husband didn't cheat (that I know of), though his overwhelming guilt is just because he "is a bad person".

I am finally moving out this weekend. I have been fighting this for 2 months now. I pray pray pray that all he needs is space. He has even been helping me move into my new place (so surreal, my friends think we are insane). He makes comments on how this is for the best, he'll still see me, its good that we each have "our own space". He says - "we don't know how this will turn out", but he is sure he wants a divorce. We may be together, but the "pressure" of marriage is too much.

I have no advice for you. I'm just winging this myself. This situation isn't of my making as yours is not of yours.

My husband won't talk to anyone either.

I just wanted you to know that I hear you and I 100% understand. I'm so sorry for your situation. It sounds like maybe you guys went through this before? How did it happen that he changed his mind that time? My husband did this before once also - though it was before we were married. I moved out for a while, and that seemed to help him settle down. Thats why I am praying it will work again. This time though - he really needs to seek help.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#243043 - 08/07/08 06:28 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Abigale]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Brokenhearted, stop fighting him to make to make it work. Take the responsibility of it off you. focus on your needs, let him focus on his. Support him as much as he will let you, but don't let it consume you.

My H breaks down every couple of years, and I've found sometimes it is better to stay off the ride. Wait till it comes to a stop, then see if he still feels the same. Sometimes when the ride isover they start to see things differently, and you haven't pressured him into anything.

Warmly, NYDAISY


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#243160 - 08/08/08 10:48 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: NY Daisy]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Brokenhearted, NYDaisy is absolutely right - you need to stop fighting it. That does not mean that you agree, nor does it mean that you give up. It simply means that you are hearing him and know that you cannot fix it. Tell him that you love him, tell him why you think he is so wonderful and tell him that you want to continue to have him in your life. But, that you won't tolerate certain behaviour. Reassure him that you think that he can fight his demons and that you will support that endeavour. But, you cannot hold the sword for him nor will you allow yourself to be his target.

Codependency happens when one person takes a backseat thinking that they are helping. We all fall into that trap because we want to do whatever we can to help those we love. Your husband is definitely in that little boy stage but he needs to remember that despite how he feels, he is an adult now and he needs to take ownership of this as an adult would. You need to remind him of that. Running away is not going to make it better for you or for him.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#243163 - 08/08/08 11:11 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Abigale]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
.



Edited by JustScott (08/08/08 03:58 PM)

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#243165 - 08/08/08 11:21 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: JustScott]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
.



Edited by JustScott (08/08/08 03:58 PM)

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#243194 - 08/08/08 01:01 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: JustScott]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
JustScott, maybe your wife does deserve better than you, but I bet she doesn't think so, otherwise she would be married to him right now. She picked and chose to love you. She knows the type of person you are. When we marry our vows include for better OR worse, I think it should say for better AND worse. We all bring things to the table it is how we deal with them that pushes us foward.

You chose your partner for a reason also. Try to sit down alone and think about all the reasons you chose her to share your life with. If you can look past all the problems on the table now, and remember all the love that brought you together, you can work it out. She will be much more supportive of you and your issues, if she feels that they are working toward the common goal of getting you two emeshed again, this time at a deeper level,you both will be much happier.

To do this you must push past your comfort zone, show your vulnerability to her, let her help you, and trust it will all work.

Warmly, NYDAISY


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#243197 - 08/08/08 01:03 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Junefriday]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Excellent Advice JuneFriday.


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#243245 - 08/08/08 03:15 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: NY Daisy]
TerryMalloy Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 6
Hi Brokenhearted,

I'm sorry for the sadness you feel right now -- and probably constantly. I applaud your efforts for fighting to save the marriage, and I hope for all of you it has a happy ending. I was on the other end of your situation about a year ago -- there were no infidelities, but it was a bad time. One year forward, and I am sadly divorced but lucky enough to have two children I love deeply and who bring me more happiness than I ever expected to get in this world. To my surprise, life does go on -- even if that feels like the downside sometimes -- but you can find some measure of happiness and contentment no matter what happens.

I don't know you or your husband, but I can tell you that sexual abuse really crushes a man's self-esteem, leaving him with a pervasive sense of guilt/shame and the constant feeling that he doesn't deserve good things in his life. I think what scared my wife away more than any revelation about the past or problem in the present ever could was how positive I was that a future with me would inevitably lead to sadness and pain for her. I'm pretty sure I was wrong about my prediction of the future, and your husband may one day feel that way too, but when you're in the belly of the beast you can't see things clearly.

I have no idea if this helps, but there's a Randy Newman song called 'Let Me Go' that pretty nicely summed up my feelings at the time. Maybe my wife could have done some things differently -- she wasn't as determined as you are to try to hold on to the marriage - but maybe there's nothing that she could've done. The lyrics are below:

Maybe I'll write you a letter, maybe I'll give you a call
Maybe I'll drop you a line when I'm feeling better
Maybe I won't after all

Somewhere a river is flowing, rolling on into the sea
Somewhere a flower is growing, that don't mean anything to me

Let me go, let me go, let me go
Don't give me the answer, cause I don't want to know
Just let my heart go on beating a little bit longer
I'm so young, so young

Don't pick me up if you think you see me falling
I've been waiting so long to fall
Don't come to me if you think you hear me calling
It won't be me that called

Let me go, let me go, let me go
Don't give me the answer, cause I don't want to know
Just let my heart go on beating a little bit longer
I'm so young, so young
***

I realize I haven't really offered any advice here, and for this I apologize. I hope you, your husband and your children find comfort and happiness, and that everything works for the best.


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#243317 - 08/08/08 09:56 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: TerryMalloy]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Little Miss -- I appreciate your feeling bad along w/ me ;-0
Isn't this the worst. It's interesting how your H is 'sure' he wants a divorce yet still says he doesn't know how it will turn out. Do you think he will be the one to file? I am curious b/c as much as my H talks about going our own ways, it is hard to imagine it really going all the way to divorce.

NY Daisy and JuneFriday -- I feel if I stop fighting for our marriage it will just end due to his own pathetic, shortsighted view of this. I really don't think he realizes what divorce means. He thinks it means we'd still see each other as often as we want, that he'd still see our D all the time too. No, it means separate lives. It means dating or remarrying others, it means our D having another family to blend in to, even though she'll always be his D. I wish I could just step aside and let him go through whatever, but he's so darn irritable these days. He comes home and gripes about everything, and everything is MY fault. I HAVE to fight back on this and tell him that no, it is not ME causing him such misery. I KNOW I need to pay attention to myself - I am - I'm enrolled in school, have high aims, etc., friends, hobbies, everything, but at the same time it is very hard to live and function knowing he might end our marriage and change our lives forever at any moment. And why??

Terry -- I'm sorry your marriage ended. Do you think if your wife were more determine that it work, that it may have survived?

Thank you for reminding me of the hopeless place he's probably in. I also know that depression can color everything in one's life and lead one to think that everything is crappy, even if it is not at all.

I've encouraged him to get him to get help if only for his depression. Our T that we used to go to separately a year ago said she really believes he may be bipolar too, which makes one very moody, very high, then very down, and impulsive.

I really just believe if he would only talk to someone by himself to make sure this is what he wants, it would be more convincing to me. His wanting to end our marriage just seems so irrational otherwise.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#243329 - 08/08/08 11:16 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Brokenhearted,

don't get me wrong. I am not telling you to give up on your marriage, just stop fighting over it. You can point out to him till you are blue in the face your point of view, but he will not see it if all there is anger, on both parts. You are now feeding into his bad mood, and you are talking at each other, not with each other.

I used to to the same thing, till one day I realized it WAS NOT working. I was so set on that I was being hurt, I was not to blame for this, and why can't he just validate my feelings. Yes, I was hurt, could I move past it, I had to think about, yes I could. so I needed to let it go, that released my anger along with it. He blamed me for everything. In truth, I KNOW, and HE KNOWS this is just NOT true. He knows the pain he has caused, do I really have to keep reminding him. For me, NO. Last I wanted to be validated, but was I always validating him? Probably not. I was too angry for that.

I knew my behavior had to change also. I just don't let him get to me like that anymore. He tries, he really, really, tries sometimes, but I just do not feed into it. You can't argue with yourself. sometimes he will say something to pick an argument or something, and I will tell him "you know your right, I will try it that way next time." alot of times he will then say something like " you know, I guess it's ok, the way it is." ARE YOU SURE?

No argument. This is not to say that I don't get upset with him, he is just more open to talking to me now, because he doesn't feel he immediately has to be defensive, because I try to relate to his side no matter how hard it is sometimes to see. I always find some part of the dicussion that I can agree with,and then I validate it.

POSITIVE REINFORCEMENTS go along way for everyone, and since my attitude changed, so has his, for the better.

This has worked for me, you could try it. It certainly won't make matters worse, you are at the end of your rope, and want it to work out, at this point I would try anything.

Keep me posted, WARMLY,NYDAISY


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#243332 - 08/08/08 11:49 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: NY Daisy]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
NY DAISY, you have some great points. My H is just so negative that if I were to agree with him would be so dumb. But I hear what you're saying, validating each other.... I will give that more of a try.

Or I could play Devil's Advocate and say things like, "You're right, we have absolutely nothing to be thankful for," or "You're right, our marriage is hell." But I know in my heart none of that is even true. But sometimes I just want to scream because his view of things is so negative.

I have always been a more positive person, always saw the silver lining. If there's a tablecloth on the table at a restaurant, it makes my day. I appreciate the little things. Someone said, "Don't forget to count the mint on your pillow." That's the way I've always been. Maybe he's just unable to appreciate all the little things.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#243336 - 08/09/08 12:29 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
some of the stuff that my h would say did not make much sense at all. I would be like "HUH????" I could not believe he was a grown man.

The thing is I would sometimes agree with some of these idiotic statements. It gets his attention. He takes on the weight of the world sometimes. If I calmly point out by agreeing with it, he usually start laughing,and call me an ass.( which we call each other, when we are being silly)

Don't lose sight of your positive attitude. It will help you through all this. Your H is going through a bad time right now, and he needs to figure it out, let him without losing you in the process.

I try to do small loving things for my spouse, especially when I am really mad. I'll leave him a note on the counter, before he leaves for work, I'll cut out an article he might like, leave him chocolates, whatever just something to promote a good feeling,when the bad ones seem to be taking over. He always calls me to thank me, or sometimes he will then return the favor by bringing me home something. It is small but it helps to keep a connection, when the connection seems all but impossible.

It is not easy, and it takes a conscience effort on my part, but the results have been so worth it, NYDAISY


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#243405 - 08/09/08 09:52 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Brokenhearted]
TerryMalloy Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 6
Brokenhearted,
We might have saved our marriage if both of us had responded differently -- looking at it through the rear view mirror, I think a big problem was that I couldn't see anything good in myself. I felt to my core that I was a bad person. I guess I needed a lot of things, but most of all to hear from her that I was a good person -- that she saw goodness in me that I couldn't feel. But because she had been hurt by me -- I had been withdrawn for a few years, was dishonest with her about money, cold, depressed, etc. -- she wasn't really in a place to pick me up.

For you, and for other spouses in this situation, it must be very difficult. It requires a delicate balance: he needs to feel loved and validated that he is a good person, but he may also need a certain amount of space, time and distance. I don't know if anybody ever 'recovers,' but with therapy, love, time people can start putting pieces back together. What makes it hard sometimes is when the revelations come out right in the middle of an already difficult situation -- like troubles in a marriage. Things probably look bleak to him now, but maybe some time apart would help.

Thanks for the kind words, Brokenhearted. I wish it hadn't ended, but I think in a small way we have found some measure of peace. I hope you and your husband can save your marriage, and find some peace and contentment as well.


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#243450 - 08/09/08 12:47 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: TerryMalloy]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
TerryMalloy, I am sorry that your marriage didn't last. I hope you took it as a learning experience,and that you will be better able to handle your feelings in your next relationship.

good luck to you on your journey through recovery, NYDAISY



Edited by NY Daisy (08/09/08 12:48 PM)

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#243725 - 08/10/08 11:23 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: NY Daisy]
TerryMalloy Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 6
Hi NY Daisy,
Thanks for the kind words, and I admire you and all the spouses on this board who fight so hard to preserve their marriages. It's a great thing, and worth fighting for.

It's not so easy to think about the next relationship. I met my wife when we were 16 (twenty years ago), and she remains everything to me. I wish I didn't have to have this learning experience with her. On her.


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#243911 - 08/11/08 01:11 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: TerryMalloy]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
TerryMallory,

Here's some insight on what kind of a hopeless romantic I am....can you go get her back??? \:\) Does she know how much she means to you still today? Does she know how sorry you are? Maybe it's not a possiblity but sometimes it's only hopeless because we don't think of it as an option in the first place.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#243922 - 08/11/08 02:28 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: dangal]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
TerryMalloy, Further to what dangal has said, as partners, we are desperately searching for explanations for the behaviour that we are seeing, hoping to hear reasons to justify why the person we love treats us poorly at times, and longing to hear that we actually mean something to them. I know it is hard to tell her, but please find a way. Once you start talking, you'll likely be surprised at how relieved she will be and how happy she will be to finally understand WHY.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#244020 - 08/12/08 01:43 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Abigale]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
I'm not sure that this belongs on this page or not. But I need some understanding. It isn't about divorce, it's probably about killing my wife's love for me, and just why she has put up with my crap over these 35 years. First it was my alcohol abuse (trying to run away from my self) from the CSA, I tried to drown that BOY inside. Now for the last month I've been a terrible, irritable SOB, she has some serious medical problems of her own, and now I'm consumed with those terrible memories of CSA that were buried in the deepest part of my mind and soul. I had my first face to face encounter with my therapist last Friday, and during our session he asked me about my feelings toward my wife, so I told him that I cannot get these words out of my heart, I cannot and don't call her dear, nor honey. I cannot give her a hug and kiss and tell her that I love her. But I do everytime that I see our son (35) that I love him and give him a hug and a kiss. I also tell my (our) grandkids everytime that I love them and also give them hugs and kisses. I cannot hold hands with her when walking, I show no affection to her in public, but I do at times get choked up when I do see others giving each others kisses in public. So I can only imagine what must be going on in her mind right now, with my roller coaster mood swings, as I just can't distract my self from those CSA memories, it's too late, I can't run away from my self anymore. I know that she is hurting inside and she knows that there must be something wrong with me in the last few weeks. But she doesn't know about my CSA and never will. I was sexually abused by my mother and males. I was always a loner, nobody got too close, I was quick tempered and still are. But in my own way I do love her and she gave me a son. She is now 71 and has to deal with this BOY inside of a amn.
Pete

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#244021 - 08/12/08 01:56 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: petercorbett]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
You have not told your wife is that correct? I know it's hard, but it may help her to know the truth. My marriage got much better when I understood, I was able to give him the support he needed and be his foundation while he's going through all of these emotions. He's been able to let me in more now. I'm very sorry you have had to deal with all of this. I wish you all the luck.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#244022 - 08/12/08 02:25 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: dangal]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Hi dangal.
Well i've seen my wife's reaction to seeing my niece for the first time in 30+ years. She is suffering with CSA too. From her mother, brother & mothers boyfriends. Now my niece has been married twice, had a child from each, divorced twice, and during her recovery she had come to the realisation that she is a lesbian, and that she could no longer do what society thought was right and was expected. She wanted to be with someone who would not abuse her, beat the crap out of her, nor treat her kids wrong. I have always understood her, I have always loved her, for what she is. Now my wife's reaction to seeing her, well you could see that she didn't approve of either her looks (male) short haircut, she is very small and fragile looking, and having to listen to my wifes snide and cruel remarks. Oh yea my niece came with her 14 year old son, who just happens to LOVE the hell of his mother. So my wife will NEVER UNDERSTAND, and NEVER WILL be told my SECRET, not even on my last breath.

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#244051 - 08/12/08 09:44 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: petercorbett]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I'm sorry if this is diverting from the intent of this thread...written mostly in response to Petercorbett's post above.

We fear what others think or will think of us post-disclosure. We seek out signs that will help us predict the response if we do disclose. Here are some tid-bits that were etched into my mind from various sources through the years:

- He/She is better off dead than surviving that molestation.
- It turns them all gay ya know.
- Hey...some kids like it. They even say so.
- They are bound to molest others
- Keep him away from your son! (speaking of a CSAed boy I know)
- He's got a screw-loose
- Well...if they go back for more, then it sure as hell ain't molestation!!!
- He waited HOW long before he told???

So we are swimming in a pool filled with their perceptions. Why in God' name would we want to disclose? OR...Why would we even stay in the pool?

I stand by my belief (described in another post), Disclosure is a Mistake.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#244168 - 08/12/08 10:24 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Still]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I'm sorry....

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#244214 - 08/13/08 03:21 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: Still]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Hi Robbie, well after mulling over your words, and you have nailed the very good reasons why not to. I liked (sometimes), I even instigated more of it (sometimes), and just why did this take so long to deal with? I thank you for your insight. Wish you well in your recovery.
Pete

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#244358 - 08/13/08 08:25 PM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: petercorbett]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I'm sorry that you do not have a safe place to fall Pete. It's not fair. Everyone should have support in the ones they love.

I wish you luck, again....always....

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#244922 - 08/16/08 07:55 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: dangal]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, dangal, Robbie, well I am again in a turmoil (whats new)? I have been on this emotional roller coaster for the last month and a half. I try and deal with these emotions on these malesurvivor pages, and in the dark where nobody can see my pain and boy crying inside. I try and not to show it to my wife, but she knows me pretty well. Any way she has a birthday (71) on Tuesday, (coincedently) with my second therapy session. I asked her what she wanted for her birthday and she said ME. So now again comes the question, (yep I'm the one that said) not on my last breath. Well I hope that I'm not having my last breath. I told her that I'd give her my answer no later than Sunday PM. I know there are grave risks (not really understanding), but like some of the other helpful answers that I've seen when we got married we became "one". But it's more like she got only half. he is pretty sick in her own right and she keeps telling me that I make her sicker by not telling her what is truly wrong with me. Well time is running out for me to give her an answer. I hope that this boy inside will come clean. (sorry for rambling on) I'm a mess. Wishing you all well in your recovery.
Pete

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#245143 - 08/17/08 02:50 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: petercorbett]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I hope you find a way to do what YOU feel is right. I wish this were easy. My heart hurts for you. Even if you can't tell her what's wrong, you CAN tell her that you DO love her (I've read on another thread that you said you did) and that what is going on with you has NOTHING to do with her. You can tell her that you had been hurt in your childhood, or keep it simple as I said, and just make sure she understands that she has not done anything to cause your pain.

In my thoughts. Keep us posted.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#245349 - 08/18/08 09:16 AM Re: Can his guilt cause him to want a divorce? [Re: dangal]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Well guilt towards the way that I have treated my wife (emotionaly) for 35 years hasen't dissappeared. She wanted ME for her birthday so I let out a bit of my secret to her, hmmm no respones, ok I'll give her time to sleep on it maybe in the morning I'll get some kind of response. Nope. Well at lunch today she aske me why I didn't tell her when we got married, well because these CSA thngs were buried deep in my brain and soul, and have in the last few months have resurfaced and especialy in the last 2weeks. So I said ok You wanted ME for your birthday, so I get my printed copy of My Secret My Story, (posted on another page) and went down the list of A BOY, explaining in detail on just what they all did to me, and things that I did to them, well no response, I didn't get any signal that she really understood on just who and what I am because of the CSA, emotionaly to her, but I sure did and still do show more emotions to my son (35) Grandkids (boys) 7&8. So I'll give her some time to let it soak in, but maybe it's PAYBACK time from her to me. Oh yep she's watching a "love" story soap opera on TV. Heal well my friends, maybe we'l get the serenity and peace that we all so richly deserve.
Pete

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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