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#239816 - 07/23/08 05:24 PM Not Belonging
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
No matter where I go or what I do .
I always end up feeling like I don't belong.
Don't know why.
Do you feel this way too?
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#239821 - 07/23/08 05:41 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
always
with me it's like i don't even deserve to belong

probably another reason i cut friends off and chase people away - feeling like i don't belong anyway so might as well just end it.

(the relationship)


m


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#239824 - 07/23/08 05:58 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: MarkK]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
I'm with you there Mike. I always feel like I some how slipped by the standard safeguards whenever I find myself a part of something. Or I feel like the standards were lowered, that's how I got included. I also sometimes feel like I don't belong here. My experience wasn't really abuse, I'm just a whiner. A wimp. A wus.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#239825 - 07/23/08 05:58 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i do mike often feel that way in situations where i do not have control.

at one point, i do believe that my experiences of having been abused [sexually, emotionally, physically and psychologically] contributed to the fact that my life passage 'chakra' was never given the opportunity to blossom and is evidenced by the fact that, due to the trauma of abuse, i avoided situations where that flowering process could be initiated, nurtured and permitted to grow.

in my life's work, my 'job' is often to lead others. i find it very challenging to be in the role of follower. i started to work on this several years ago, and made some progress as i elected to become involved in opportunities where i put myself in the passenger seat so that i could come to know what it is like to be one of many.

volunteering is one way to do it. joining a committee at church or in the community are some of the ways you can act 'as if', until experience guilds the lily for courage to happen.

my basic personality type is extroverted so the test tells me, but i know i much prefer seclusion. i get my energy from being away from people. there is nothing wrong with that. [i used to harangue myself for not seeming like a typical type 'a' personality, because the culture places laurels on the noggin of those whose wheels are squeakiest].

after my experience in the trappist monastery [they are a contemplative and cloistered order] i decided that it was ok to be a quiet [?] guy who had no interest in being central in a social setting, and stopped seeing the need for seclusion as being a character flaw, and more of a persoanlity attribute.

my enneagram type is a 5. a cartoon in one of the books i have on the subject has each of the nine types all sitting around a big table and each one has their own thought bubble attached to them, with an summary encapsulization of their own particular brand of self-talk.

my type's thought bubble says: 'it's a talkative group, boy that gets me off the hook.' my writing styles and speaking styles are very different, but i am articulate in the area that i am most knowledgeable.

so after i went thru all the drama of trying to make myself out to be more comfortable in social situations, i still feel like i'd rather be a wallflower, but in the process i ended up meeting more people and making new friends and acquaintances while challenging myself to stretch the boundaries of my own social comfort zone.

i still prefer my room. and when i am in chat, i create one called the cave, cause that's where i prefer to hang out.

your brother in recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#239837 - 07/23/08 06:54 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: Sans Logos]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Most of the time I feel that way. In fact, all the time I feel that way. Even here in MS Land. There isn't a day that goes by that I tell myself I will never come back to MS Land again because of something or other. This is what our abuse has done to us. It's messed up our rational way of thinking so we look through distorted eyes that color everything lonely or odd.

Fight it. Don't let it bring you down. We all have voices inside that tell us stuff. Don't listen to that one, okay? We're with you, man!

Lance


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#239983 - 07/24/08 12:43 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LW1527]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Thanks Guys,
I had been struggling with that feel of being terminaly unqiue--not apart of--lonely the last week or so.
Just wanted to put it out there because I like to keep it locked inside.
Thanks for the hand up!
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#239988 - 07/24/08 02:06 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
hi again mike, i think we have been conditioned to see quietude as a negative personality characteristic.

and i also think there is a not so subtle distinction between feeling 'lonely' and the sense of solitude.

it is a basic human tendency in our quest to self-actualize, to focus on the separations that divide us rather than on our commonalities which unite us. i think we lose the balance between those two when we begin to feel cut off from ourselves and others. the divisions that exist are of our own making. once we are able to see there are no walls where they used to be then there is more a tendency to feel aligned with the bigger picture and feel less disenfranchised.

before, i used to be different, but now i'm the same......hehehe

just a thought, maybe not well stated, but there it is....

anyway, back to seclusion.........

your brother in recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#239989 - 07/24/08 02:16 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
LN3(SS) Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 486
Loc: MD
That is not a unique feeling at all...rather average in fact.

I haven't belonged to something larger than myself since right after I was hurt. Having that feeling of "belonging" visibly stripped from me was one of the more painful things that happened to me and, consequently, one with which I struggle every day.

This is one area that therapy really doesn't seem to help much in. For me, there was something special in knowing, deep in my bones, that I belonged to a unique and select fraternity of men and I had the outward symbols of my success to officially show this. Now, all I see is the broken and battered remnants of that man. The closest I feel to belonging is on here, and I question that a lot.

_________________________
"When we go into battle, I will be the first to set foot on the field, and I will be the last to step off, and I will leave no one behind. Dead, or alive, we will all come home together." LTG Hal Moore, Jr., USA (Ret.)

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#240094 - 07/24/08 11:55 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LN3(SS)]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
Ron, I identify with a lot of what your saying here. The odd thing for me is even before my abuse, I felt apart from others, ---- in fact I always have. the idea of myself as part of a group, --- feels incredibly wrong, even when my parents start talking about "the family" including me, I begin to feel uncomfortable.

In my good moments, this separation can be positive. yes, I'm different, yes I do and like and think my own things, but isn't that a good thing! that's one reason I really loved university, and also why I never got involved in things like inter colidge rivelry or team sports.

I'm naturally intraverted, and get a lot of energy from being alone, ---- in fact I rarely feel comfortable in groups, and much prefer associating with just one or two other people at a time, and even then, ---- not for long periods, ---- though strangely, I am also quite talkative, and people often tell me things.

That's the good side. On my bad days I feel absolutely alone, cut off, and contemptable. My celibrated individuality has turned into a contemptable strangeness, even walking down the street I imagine people thinking "who's that idiot" and all of the things I like, or think, or do, the things I've chosen seem pointless. At those times, I've been known to just curl up on my own for hours at a time, ----- especially now I have my own flat, I've been known to stay inside not seeing anyone for up to three days.

Even at home with my parents, one characteristic of my down periods is I go to my bedroom and stay there, and do not associate with people.

like a lot of things recovery wise, my disconnectedness seems to be a two edged sword depending upon how I'm feeling at the time.


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#240146 - 07/25/08 11:36 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: dark empathy]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Dark,
Disconnectedness-- that's it exactly!!
That's the feeling I struggle with all my life.
I have felt this feeling since before I can remember.
I hate this feeling it cuts me off from the rest of the world and I cann't seem to reconnect.
It is a coping behavior for me.
I use it to protect myself when things feel overwhelming and I don't know what to do.
I emotionally disconnect fron reality and retreat into myself and get lost.
Like you,I can stay there for days and usually not by choice. And I have a hard time coming out of it. It seems to have to wear off.
Thanks for the insight.
mike



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#240210 - 07/25/08 06:56 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Disociation was our friend while we grew up. Now we've grown up and disociation is not our friend any more. I struggle daily to keep my feet in the here and now. I can feel myself float away, but then I've learned to bring myself back most of the time.

I share your feelings here.

Lance


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#240275 - 07/26/08 03:19 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LW1527]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Not belonging is way something I identify with. In fact I don't even feel ready to talk about it much save to say that I'm part of the not belonging club...Hey! I guess that means I belong to a club! Oh ok. Never mind then. \:\)

_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#240446 - 07/26/08 07:33 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: blueshift]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
good one Blue shift, the not belonging club! sort of like solipsist's anonymous, lol!


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#240485 - 07/27/08 12:07 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LW1527]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Lance,
I am feeling overwhelmed. I feel f--ked.
I have been on the web reading stuff on the dissocation.
Man here we go again.
I realized tonight that I have been dissociating all my life.
I do it all the time and most of the time without realizing it.
What now?
where to I go from here?
This bites!
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#240503 - 07/27/08 07:58 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
I can relate Mike. I've had a history of being a little pendulum-like, in that most of the time i'm not 100% "there", and keep to myself; after a while, the need for human interaction asserts itself, in the form of "getting a little too excited" when someone that feels "safe" shows me some positive attention, and they usually (and understandably) back away nervously. This of course leads to further self-denigration and isolation, which only starts the cycle all over again...
Sometimes the only thing that helps is remembering that black-and-white thinking helps very little in a world made up of countless shades of gray, and while it's not the world's job to cater to my wishes, it's not my job to cater to anyone else's, either. Self-attention helps also, in the sense of paying close attention to those moments when i transition from being "there" to dissociating. It seems to be an unconscious form of self-protection, and being aware of what's setting the alarm system off at any given time helps.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#240504 - 07/27/08 08:54 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: dgoods]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Mike,

Everybody disassociates to one degree or another. Driving to work, the same ole route everyday, after the hundreth time you do not need to be as "present" to do it as you needed to be the first time.

Some of us are just better at it than others :-)

The thing is, I think, that...recovery seems to be about having choices available where choices may not have seemed available before. If I "space out" as a matter of habit when something comes up, yea, I am not as available as I might be otherwise. I "disconnect," I "check out," I "wander off." Personally, my favorite is, "I wander off."

Being "aware" of it now, I can work on trying to stay more present.

Understanding why it is there gives us an appreciation for how very creative we were...needed to be.

For me...there was some anxiety about thinking, "Well, now I am going to have to quit it...what am I going to do when something really sucks? Am I going to be completely defenseless?"

I was grateful when my therapist said, "No. You do not have to give it up. Just be aware of it. Let it be a choice you make rather than have it be something that automatically happens."


:-)


CD


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#240505 - 07/27/08 09:31 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: CDavid]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
I can easily relate to what everybody else is describing in this thread. Perhaps asking ourselves what do we belong to as opposed to what we don't is what is most challenging for some.
In the end we have to be honest with ourselves.

Maybe a new thread ( What Do You Belong To )

Silence is sometimes my best belonging.

_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#240564 - 07/27/08 04:09 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: jcf1957]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
jcf,
You have to find out who you are before you can find where you belong.
Everyday, I am realizing that I truely belong here.
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#240577 - 07/27/08 06:00 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
Cd, what you say makes so much sense. I remember once in A-level psychology we had a pain test, where you had to stick your hand in an ice bucket and the time you could manage it was measured. unknown to anyone, six months before that I'd been experiencing abuse, and my entire coping stratogy involved me being in one place, and my body in another, compared to that, ice was easy, and it actually took the teacher worrying and asking if I was okay before I took my hand out of the ice.

To be honest, i'm just coming up from a really down couple of days where i've been feeling incredibly cut off and alone, and despising myself for it.

It really does seem to me that the feeling of not belonging or disociation is one of these things which you can perceive as good or bad depending upon how your generally feeling.

a friend of mine once said "just because society perceives extraversion as the norm, doesn't make extraversion desirable" and she was from a family with six kids living in a small house together, ---- all (according to her), apparently very intraverted.

sorry about the continuing wrant.


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#240668 - 07/28/08 08:32 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: michael banks
No matter where I go or what I do .
I always end up feeling like I don't belong.
Don't know why.
Do you feel this way too?
mike


Mike,

My version of this was that, beginning at 8 yo, I honestly believed I was a space alien. I thought that I HAD to have been left here by the mother ship and that someday they will return for me. I was shocked to see a movie about this very thing released early this year.

Even in adulthood, I find myself slipping back into this belief that I "don't belong" to such a severe degree, that I MUST be a space alien.

Weird, I know. Just thought I'd share my experience.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#240696 - 07/28/08 11:31 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: Still]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
I feel like I am King of Disociation! I'm sure we all feel this way at times. Disociation can be very confusing and scarey, but we will not die from it. As you go through it, you will begin to feel when it starts. There are a lot of things to do when you start to float away. Your body will give you warnings that we need to be in tine with. Once we start to float, we can learn to get back, get grounded. Easier said than done. Like I go to my T and WHAM! I'm gone. But it is scarier than it reall is, I think. Find out what the triggers are that make us float away is vital. Ride with it. Disociation and triggering will actually teach us what is going on inside. Panic is not good at this point. Try to stay somewhat grounded and see if you can trace what was said or experienced just before hand. My thoughts are with you, Mike.

Lance


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#240702 - 07/28/08 11:47 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LW1527]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Lance,
Thanks for your words of encouragement.
I feel alot better today.
At least I understand what I am dealing with.
That gives me a starting point.

mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#240708 - 07/28/08 12:43 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
We're here for you, Mike. We're here for each other and I am here for you.

Lance


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#240901 - 07/29/08 03:22 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: LW1527]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
Wow robby, you describe what I have felt exactly, even in those terms. From the age of about 7 I've felt like that, even before my abuse started, and even now at my better moments I've wanted to find someone i can belong to and just run off somewhere with them, together, exploring, alone!

I stil find the being part of a group atitude, ---- much less being part of "society" actually repellent. I continue to see my parents and brother because I like them, but I really don't feel part of "A family" at all, and on the occasions things about "the family" have been said I feel very wrong.

Michael, I haven't really got any advice. As I said, to me this feeling is either good or bad at any point. When it's good it's good, but when it's bad it can be agony and I'm really sorry to here the position your in.

I can't offer any advice, but I hope things get better for you.


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#240979 - 07/29/08 12:29 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: dark empathy]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Dark,
I don't really need any advice.
I just need to express where I am at and what I am feeling.
To know that I am being hear.
That other people understand and not judge.
That I am not the only one to be where I am at right now.
That I am no longer alone.
mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#241454 - 07/30/08 10:41 PM Re: Not Belonging [Re: michael banks]
Cobain28 Offline


Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 15
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
I can completely relate to all of those posts above. Whenever I start to make friends with someone or a group I begin to feel they don't think I am worthy or I'm too cocky or "know it all" ish. It's happened in most every group I've tried to connect myself too. I enjoy being alone and it takes a toll on my relationships, especially my love. My personality bears a lot of significance on material wealth, which I know is not always good or progressive, but it leads me to beleive that I'll never be successful because the successful are always extroverted and unafraid to feel that uncomfortable feeling and make it theirs. All your posts have opened my eyes.

Matt

_________________________
"Society, your crazy breed, hope you're not angry if I disagree." -Eddie Vedder-

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#241494 - 07/31/08 05:48 AM Re: Not Belonging [Re: Cobain28]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Mat.

Probably because I've met a lot of academics, i've met quite a number of highly successful intraverts. A friend of mine actually believes there's a social bias and prejudice towards extraversion.

I totally understand your worry of feeling like a knowitall and worrying how others see you. I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone has good feelings about me at all, and in fact I'm really embarrassed and upset to reveal facts about myself that might make people think well of me. Yesterday for example I met someone, when she asked me what I was doing and I admitted I was doing a Phd her reaction was "wow!" and I felt really bothered by this.

one reason, ---- aside from the physical contact issues and everything else, why i've had a large number of female friends but never a Gf I think, is my total inability to even understand that anyone could be interested in getting close to me, and the fact that bloody stupid social convention means that that bloke has to make the first move, ---- this is one of the most unfair, unpleasant and hurtful genda prejudices I've ever come across, the problem is it's incredibly universal.


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