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#239127 - 07/20/08 07:54 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Barkabus]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
I knowwwwww...

In my area any "water feature" is also included in the laws. We were not aware of the law, not ever having had a pool before. But the house we bought did. No one would insure it until we installed the fence. But, yea, I think here, Rob is absolutely right...if it is an above ground pool, just taking the ladder out works.


CD


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#239229 - 07/20/08 09:51 PM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Barkabus]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I can't imagine how anyone would spend the money to have a pool installed without building a fence around it if only to protect their investment.

For what it's worth, we also have a municiple law that states that any underground pool must be fenced in.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239259 - 07/21/08 01:35 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Barkabus]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: Barkabus
So shouldn't this law include every lake, pond and "water feature" that is more than 24" deep? Aren't they all just as dangerous whether man made or natural?

Ridiculous!


Be careful here! That's a really good idea! Think of the jobs that could be generated through installing the fences and then enforcing the requisite regulations generated by each state's "Natural Body of Water Safety Department."

Just think of it! No longer will children have unfettered access to ponds and lakes (over 24" in depth) with which to swim unsupervised by adults (certified in aquatic safety of course).

I feel a legislative draft coming on! Thanks for the idea!


Originally Posted By: BJK
I can't imagine how anyone would spend the money to have a pool installed without building a fence around it if only to protect their investment.


This thing cost me only $200 at WallyWorld. I cant believe they sold it to me without a permit though.

______________________________________________________________

The article cites 200 fatalities of children vs. pools per year in the USA...right? Then we REALLY ought to be concerned about THIS danger.

United States has a particular problem with pedestrian deaths and injuries. About 5,000 pedestrians are killed and another 64,000 are injured in motor vehicle accidents every year in this country.

Young children and the elderly are the most vulnerable for pedestrian accident related injuries. Based on population, children under the age of 16 years are most likely to be struck by motor vehicles.

- In 2003, nearly one-fifth of all traffic fatalities for victims under the age of 16 were pedestrians.
- In 2003, almost one-forth of all traffic fatalities for children between 5 and 9 years old were pedestrians.
- In 2002, 40 percent of all pedestrians under the age of 16 occurred between 5 pm and 9 pm.


Statistics provided by the United States according to the National Highway Traffic Association and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

So we had better build fences around a real danger first...or maybe just stop inviting intrusive, simple-minded nanny-state control-freaks and their warped realities into our lives?

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#239265 - 07/21/08 02:18 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Rob,

Don't get me started on the lax nature of traffic safety enforcement. Automobiles kill more people every year than handguns. Where is the outrage?

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239266 - 07/21/08 02:32 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: BJK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: BJK
Don't get me started on the lax nature of traffic safety enforcement. Automobiles kill more people every year than handguns. Where is the outrage?



The reality is: Until an issue has a well-funded lobby, it has no right to an outrage. Detroit car makers have a lobby. Pro-gun and anti-gun each have a lobby. Traffic victims have no lobby, no org, no anything. MADD is the only thing that brought any real change to drunk driving in the USA. They are a well-funded lobby group.

On the same note; This is why we wont see any real legislative change or effective CSA enforcement until we have a lobby group.

WE hold no consumer interest. We hold no commercial interest. We are not a large and powerful, land-owning church (and they have their own lobbyists BTW). Nope, WE are kind of like the kids who get mowed-down by the speeding car...fully unrepresented on our life-changing issue of a social wrong.

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#239381 - 07/21/08 04:54 PM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I've been thinking about your post, Rob, because you do have a point.

We do have lobbyists, but I'm afraid they aren't always on our side. The lobbyists we do have are hell bent on getting the perps while leaving the victims behind in the dust. That's kind of counter-productive, in my eyes.

I'm now speaking as someone whose insurance policy on the year has run out of funds, so I cannot afford to see my T until January at the soonest. Where's the love for those of us who have to fight the battle even after the perps are locked up?

The answer to this problem happens to lie in an area most people just don't want to talk about. We need to teach children about sex at a young age so that they are capable of discerning for themselves at a young age whether or not their boundaries are being violated. I'm talking pre-school to kindergarten kids. Age-appropriate cirriculum should be mandated in our school systems so that kids are able to disclose abuse if it happens as soon as possible. We need to get kids out of abusive situations and get them help. And we need to continue giving them help, no matter what the cost, until they have overcome the problems they face in their day-to-day life as a result of their abuse.

But why does this kind of action meet resistance?

The answer is quite simple. Parents get defensive. "There is no way in hell you're teaching MY kid about sex in kindergarten!" The problem is, many of these kids need to be protected against their parents! Many of them are learning about sex for the first time in fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, and by then it's probably too late.

Our society gets defensive when it comes to protecting children, but here we have a clear cut case of protection going too far. It's so much easier to just get our revenge and leave it at that. Lock 'em up. Throw away the key. Let's not do anything to help prevent CSA. Let's just be reactive and fight symptoms instead of the problem.

That's my two cents.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239428 - 07/21/08 07:53 PM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: BJK]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Bryan,

As a parent and a grandparent, and...having lived through the sex education debacle through the seventies, eighties and nineties in the school system...so many special interest groups have to be recognized and respected. To the point where, sex education becomes the teacher pointing to the, "Boys" and "Girls: signs over the restroom doors...then, moving on.


CD


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#240237 - 07/25/08 09:51 PM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: CDavid]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Guys:

Sometime back I remember a local news story in the Detroit-area about a toddler that had drowned in a 5-gallon plastic bucket. Seems that some painter had a few sitting around empty in his yard and one had filled a few inches deep with rainwater. The kid had wandered away when his mom was on the phone and two minutes later was face-down in the bucket. It seems that there were no laws broken, but there was a big lawsuit over it anyway. And afterwards a law was enacted about leaving buckets laying around.

Massena, NY is hardly a village. At one time it was a large enough city to have hosted a General Motors foundry as large as the Saginaw, MI GM foundry, which I believe is also closed now. In both cases, 3,000-5,000 good-paying jobs were lost times the spin-off effect at suppliers, trucklines, other related entities, and in the service industry. The spin-off is likely in the 3 to 3.5 times the original lost jobs rate. Add in the fact that people are slowing down, and driving less and vacationing less, especially at remote summer resort and boating destinations, because of the gas cost, and it looks like a huge revenue drop across the board at both the State and local level. Most likely Massena as a governmental entity is just a bit more than hard-up these days and is trying desperately to enhance revenue.

Massena is waterfront on the St. Lawrence River. Maybe the town should be forced to fence-off the river and install thousands of warning monitors too. Maybe even 24-hour video surveilance? I'll bet that wouldn't fly. And unfortunately, Massena isn't alone. All over the nation local governments are resorting to squeezing the locals in unheard of ways. Just recently heard of a case where several state highway patrolmen who had been recognized nationally for the number of drug seizures had finally been busted by the DEA for planting evidence in motorist's cars that they stopped. Now almost 300 convictions are in question. Gee, I wonder what the local benefit was just in the local attorney community? How many nights in local motels were paid for by those falsely charged or their relatives, or how many restaurant meals, etc, etc? The local spin-off benefit was rather substantial. Economically, the area was in the also-ran category. Wonder if that had anything to do with it?

As for the guy watching the pool from a lawn chair, I remember a pool party a while back, where I was in the pool and the one woman's kids were playing in the pool while she watched from a chaise lounge. The youngest child, then only four, was sitting on a good-sized inflatable raft, when one of the older kids came-up from under the raft and tipped the raft just enough for the little kid to slide off. I was maybe 15 feet away and it still took me 5 seconds to reach the scene, by which time the kid was on the bottom of the pool in 5 feet of water. I pulled her out real quickly, and even by then she needed to have mouth to mouth and also had to have a trip to the ER to have the ingested pool water pumped-out. And her mother never even made it to the water before I had the kid out of the pool.

Just so you know the basic impossibility of that lawn chair situation. Now five years later that kid is scared to death of going in the water. She is lucky to be alive. Just have to wonder how much longer it would have taken if I hadn't been there that close by?

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#240270 - 07/26/08 02:30 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Trucker51]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Someday MAYBE people will grow some brass ones and shove the code-inspector's little citation up his exhaust pipe.

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#240319 - 07/26/08 10:38 AM Re: Can you say NANNY-STATE? [Re: Trucker51]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Hmm....a four year old in a pool without a lifejacket...playing on an inflatable raft that was floating on five feet deep water, obviously too deep for the four year old to touch bottom (unless she was a mutant).

I see all kinds of negligence in this situation.

My four year old niece isn't allowed in two foot deep water without a life jacket, and she is in swimming lessons.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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