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#238948 - 07/19/08 12:53 PM Other People don't "GET IT"
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
As you know, my husband wants a divorce and we are currently in the process of separating. You guys have read how I feel in detail on my other posts. This is the worst thing ever.

Here is my current, HUGE, problem. OTHER PEOPLE!!!! EVERYONE has an OPINION when they hear you are getting a divorce. EVERYONE has or knows someone who went through this terrible ordeal, and now feel qualified to tell me EXACTLY what to DO, THINK, FEEL, ETC.

YES - I am DEVASTATED that my husband wants out. I can't breath if I think about it too much. But when others ask for details - 'why is this happening?' 'what did he say?' 'what has he done?' they think my answers are stupid, pathetic, illogical. I try to be as honest as I can be - but I can't tell them the whole truth. I can say he is depressed - they say he should get over it. I can say he had a bad childhood - they say 'who didn't?' I can say he needs space - they say he is being selfish. I can say that I want to wait him out and will take him back if he changes his mind - they say I'm being pathetic.

They say it is another woman (its not). They say I should be mad and stop taking up for him (I can't). I even confided in someone that I thought would understand about how my husband feels that he is doing 'what's best for me', that I stood a better chance out there with someone 'better', than to be with him and be his emotional punching bag, that he feels we have become 'safe and comfortable' in our relationship and it is freaking him out. I thought this person would understand at least that much - even though I can't tell them WHY my husband feels that way. You know what they said - Its another woman, that's the only reason men leave/no one leaves for the betterment of the other person - and this was a man saying this!

I am just totally ALONE. My husband and I still talk, still care for one another, he still NEEDS me-but I think hates it that he needs me. He said I am his BEST FRIEND and that he can't loose me from his life, but he can't be in this committed relationship anymore. He said he needed to take care of himself. According to family/friends - if we get divorced, then I can't TALK to him, BE with him, SEE him, ever again - it is OVER.

I can't talk to friends/family because they totally don't GET IT. They don't UNDERSTAND, and I can't make them. I'm going CRAZY. This is the only place I can come.

They also only have seen in our relationship what we have chosen to "show" the world. If I hear one more time that we "were the perfect couple", I will scream. This has shocked everyone, and it was out of the blue - but deep down inside, I always knew that this was a possiblity. I have lived side by side for 7 years and no one else understands him and us. I have always known he was capable of this, I just hoped it wouldn't happen, or we can work through it.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#238954 - 07/19/08 01:37 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
Junefriday Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 113
Loc: Canada
Hi LittleMiss,

I know this really, really sucks for you right now. But, remember that this is YOUR life. Your are in control of it, not everyone else. Your husband's actions/desires have an impact, but no one else's opinion should matter. Having said that though, you need the support of those who love you. So, you have to figure out who the right people are to support you, tell them what you need and what you don't need from them. Sometimes people just react without thinking about what the person needs from them. They probably think they are helping you in telling you that he is a jerk, etc. but they need to remember that you love him and will for quite a while, if not forever. So, be very clear with them about what helps and what doesn't. Do not be afraid to tell them that you need their love and support, but that you are going to be honest when what they are saying/doing doesn't help.

I've been going through something similar with my parents. My father is terribly upset with my husband and would probably kill him if he saw him again (and my father is NOT a violent man). He feels that he should have asked more questions when my husband asked for my hand in marriage. He feels duped and therefore feels guilty for not protecting his daughter. But overall, he and my mother have been wonderful. They've put their pain in losing a son-in-law aside and have focused on me. But, I've had to tell them often when what they are saying or doing doesn't help me and I've had to tell them that as much as my husband is being a jerk, I want to handle the divorce with dignity. I am not going to let his carelessness change me and I won't play the victim just to manipulate the court system. All I have left is ME. If I let myself change and become an angry and bitter person, then I've lost everyone. As much as it is hard for my parents hear this because they think I will be taken advantage of, they are so very proud of me.

Don't feel the need to give everyone an explanation. I know that you want to because you don't want them to think that it is because you were a horrible wife, etc. But, with the exception of those close to you, why not just say, "My husband and I are going through a difficult time right now. We need some time apart to sort through our feelings and where we go from there." Or, if you need the focus to be on him, you could say, "My husband needs some space to sort through some issues." Unfortunately, everyone will have an opinion. Just stick to your guns and either don't listen or tell them that what they are saying isn't helping you.

As for your husband, I don't know how the laws work in your area, but can't you just take some time apart as a separation without rushing into a divorce? You probably need some sort of agreement, etc. but that way there is still some time for him to decide what he wants. You also need to think long and hard about what YOU want out of the marriage. He may come around but then you need to decide which of your needs you absolutely have to have fulfilled and which you are willing to put on the back-burner. You also need to establish your boundaries - ie. under what circumstances would you only take him back? Don't pressure yourself to work everything out overnight. Eventhough if feels as though all of this has happened out of the blue, it hasn't. It's been building up for years so give yourselves time to figure out what's best...even if that means you need to be apart during that time.

_________________________
"Love comes to those who still hope even though they've been disappointed, to those who still believe even though they've been betrayed, to those who still love even though they've been hurt before.”

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#238960 - 07/19/08 02:22 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Junefriday]
An Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 151
Loc: usa
It is a real hard part- what you can't tellothers. i used to imagine for him, that he couldn't do that in any aspect of his life. gave me some perspective on the sense of aloness, that no one culd understand . and that what i was experiencing (still am, only say limited amounts to others and my friends etc can't understand at all why i don't hate him. and am so far from hating him.

i went to a T just so I could say the things i could not say to absolutely anyone else without betraying him. i knew i needed someowhere to be able to say it- it was just one visit cause it was all i could afford but it was important to say it somewhere, to someone who i felt could understand somewhat.

in the end i decided that those who wanted to and respected me enough to accept that I couldn't share details but that he'd suffered abuse in his childhood that was very traumatic and made it too difficult now for him to continue the relationship. I had one friend of over 20 years who pushed with questions and I answered and was afterwards furious with myself- she asked about details of his abuse. I found i had to end the friendship for many reasons after that but i think , albeit i just should have had the confidence myself to not answer even if she was questioning my judgement indirectly, but i've never regretted since ending that friendship, longterm as it was. Realized it was based on some unhealthy dynamics to start with and that incident was just the result of all that.

none of this lessons your pain or frustration but thank god for here. I know you're doing the right thing, or at least that's what my gut feels. If you don't have a T, hope you can consider it. you deserve the support through this....


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#238986 - 07/19/08 04:53 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: An]
Lee73 Offline


Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 32
No, other people don't GET IT at all unfortunately. And people can't help but give their opinions on things whether they know the general story or not. I had a lot of anger towards friends at first who would tell me to walk away and not look back, tell me there were other fish in the sea and that I would see that when I was ready. Eventually, I accepted that these people were my friends, and they only wanted the best for me as a result, but they were not people who I could confide in anymore about my feelings and were not people I should lean on for support about this particular aspect of my life. I realized that it's no fault of their own--they care about my well-being while I am sitting here worrying about his so I do appreciate the caring. But, here is where I come to read and find support because the people here DO get it. Hopefully you have at least one person close to you that you can confide in that isn't judgemental or preachy. I haven't found that person yet in my own life, but I'm ok with the support I receive here. We feel what we feel for them, and nothing that anyone else says changes that. Just accept that they care but probably aren't the best people to lean on for encouragement about continuing the relationship, and hopefully the support you find here or through one or two close people in your life or through a therapist of your own will be where you will find the support you will need.

xoLee


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#239052 - 07/19/08 10:21 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Lee73]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
LittleMiss,

boy I sure can empathize with you - I was SO happy about the relationship with my former bf - and yes, f&f were also happy - everyone thought I'd finally (as in FINALLY) settled down.

I suggest you keep it short and sweet - you'll NEVER be able to satisfy some folks no matter what -

my stated response is and will continue to be:

"He had unresolved issues from his past he needed to deal with and couldn't or wouldn't. It just didn't work out between us. I'm not sorry for the relationship but it was time for me to go."

to further comments - I shrug my shoulders and say "it's the way it is; some things we cannot change."

what's important is you do NOT look to others for answers - perhaps some folks even feel they might have failed you in some way for "not being there" or whatever - yes, really. if in any way your attitude towards talking about this is less than total control of yourself, people will feel obliged to ask more questions thinking you "want to talk about it" or want support.

Save that for those closest to you who DO understand and DO know the truth (hopefully you do have someone like that more than just here on this forum?)

again, present a strong face, be firm in what you say and people will drop it if you make it clear there is no more to be said.

people are human; when someone's relationship fails, especially when it's clear the partners are NOT both in agreement about it ending, their own relationships feel threatened as well. don't be too hard on them, honestly, would you really want them to go through what you are going through just so they'd understand? yet the truth is, until someone has been through this, it's really hard to empathize, right?

all the best,
Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239073 - 07/19/08 10:48 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
You know...it might be very difficult to say at first, but whenever the topic of your separation comes up, a simple "I don't want to talk about it" just might suffice.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239102 - 07/20/08 12:22 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: BJK
You know...it might be very difficult to say at first, but whenever the topic of your separation comes up, a simple "I don't want to talk about it" just might suffice.



Bryan,

I just want to comment on what you've said here - while that might suffice in a professional situation (i.e., at work) people who are close enough to be called friends do actually deserve more information or at least a response that can convince them things are under control in the sense what can be done, has been done, and what cannot be done is accepted.

your statement shuts people out altogether and can possibly discourage future inquiries as to the state of being for the person being asked about. this is not good considering the person in the break up might very well value the friendship and probably needs their friends more than ever at this point in time.

again, while at work we don't necessarily want to get into our personal difficulties for obvious reasons, outside of work our friends ARE our personal lives and often do deserve some kind of answer other than "not wanting to talk about it;" especially if they were friends of the couple, not just one or the other.

all the best,
Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239126 - 07/20/08 06:47 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: indygal
Originally Posted By: BJK
You know...it might be very difficult to say at first, but whenever the topic of your separation comes up, a simple "I don't want to talk about it" just might suffice.



Bryan,

I just want to comment on what you've said here - while that might suffice in a professional situation (i.e., at work) people who are close enough to be called friends do actually deserve more information or at least a response that can convince them things are under control in the sense what can be done, has been done, and what cannot be done is accepted.

your statement shuts people out altogether and can possibly discourage future inquiries as to the state of being for the person being asked about. this is not good considering the person in the break up might very well value the friendship and probably needs their friends more than ever at this point in time.

again, while at work we don't necessarily want to get into our personal difficulties for obvious reasons, outside of work our friends ARE our personal lives and often do deserve some kind of answer other than "not wanting to talk about it;" especially if they were friends of the couple, not just one or the other.

all the best,
Indy


I understand what you are saying, but in my eyes, these friends who deserve more are deserving of the whole truth. I guess what I'm saying is that if I wasn't comfortable telling a friend that my spouse was a survivor of sexual abuse and needed time to come to terms with that, then I'd rather not talk to that friend about it at all.

To be completely frank, it's really nothing more than a boundary issue. When it comes to my friends, if I feel like I owe one of them some sort of explanation but I need to skirt the issue in that explanation, then I feel I owe that friend nothing.

I guess what it really comes down to is deciding who are our true friends and who are simply acquaintances. After all, I used the "I don't want to talk about it" line with most of my friends when I started to deal with my own issues of CSA. I've also come to terms with the fact that when it comes to the few people I did disclose to (four of them), it was impossible for one of those people to deal with it without referring to one of his friends.

And I do also believe that if a partner of a survivor is in that category, where not talking about it will eat him or her up, then I strongly urge that partner to seek therapy.

I don't mean to be confrontational because I totally agree with the OP. Some people just don't get it. Those people who don't get it, in my eyes, deserve no explanation at all.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239128 - 07/20/08 07:55 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: BJK
Some people just don't get it. Those people who don't get it, in my eyes, deserve no explanation at all.




this is what bothers me - who is anyone to judge who "deserves" an explanation or not? there's a multitude of situations people don't understand in life - and sometimes it just takes time.

I've written on here about this before but not in a long while. Sometimes people are so shocked they react in ways those of us witnessing (the people who may have told them) don't expect or don't know what to do next.

it's also beyond anyone's comprehension as to what may have happened in someone else's past that may, in fact, trigger them - talking about csa is very tricky in that regard. It's not always wise to assume someone you are talking to is NOT a survivor just because they've never said so (to you). Just as true is you don't know what they may or may not know about others.

Opening the door a bit keeps the bridge open for further discussion, if necessary, if warranted, in the future.

Closing the door, well, it shuts it down, builds and cements the wall in place.

so, ask yourself: are walls what we are after here? or is it bridges?

like it or not, all responses are never going to be what we'd like them to be - that doesn't mean people should stop talking about something.

Point in fact - being a leader on an issue invariably opens one up to abuse as well as knowledge others may share one's ideas. That's what being a leader is about. Dealing with it. Understanding those who might disagree and not have all the facts and even those who sometimes have the facts, STILL don't understand the way we want them to.

But like it or not, we need to put it out there that yes, these things happen and they happen to you and me and everyone else. I think when you dodge certain issues around people you perceive as not being receptive you are playing THEIR agenda and letting them control the information they receive or not.

I don't do that - or try not to anyway. There are very ugly and sinister facts in life that we need to start dealing with if this world is ever going to be a better place.

I, for one, am sick and tired of people who DON'T want to hear it, acknowledge it or understand it. The deal is, often times there are others among them who DO and are waiting for that bridge so they can cross over. Putting the wall there shuts out more than just the ones you don't want to cross, it shuts out everyone.

Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239152 - 07/20/08 12:16 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I hear what you're saying, Indy, but at the same time, when a person is in a state of emotional distress, the most important thing is for that person to protect himself or herself so that he or she can work on that emotional distress on his or her own terms.

Who are we to judge? I don't call it being judgemental in the slightest. I call it setting up boundaries so that I am safe from those who might hurt me further when I'm already going through tough times. Quite obviously, the OP has been hurt by others as she struggles with her situation. I empathize with her. I also have the utmost respect for her decision to stick by her partner if and when he has dealt enough with his issues to welcome her back into his life. This decision might change over time, and I respect that as well. I also understand that most people just don't get this and probably never will.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239153 - 07/20/08 12:19 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Little Miss,

Your situation is one that many women face who are married to a survivor. Assuming one gives their heart away to the person they love for life, which I believe many do, it's a devastating thing to face what you and many other partners here are facing. There's no way of getting around that. My heart goes out to you.

My advise to you would be to try and find a local divorce recovery support group or grief recovery support group if the former cannot be located. They are fairly common in most metropolitan areas and even in many local towns of fair size. If you can find one of those groups the folks there will be of tremendous support to you as you go through this process.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#239219 - 07/20/08 08:46 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
BJK,

being judgmental is deciding who "deserves" further explanation - yes, that is making a judgment whether you meant it to be or not.

as for being in a state of emotional distress - I've been there, I assure you, and if any of that pain is as visible on the outside as it is on the inside; well then it's a natural response for people to inquire as to what's the matter that would make one appear so uncomfortable -----

and when the response is "I don't want to talk about it"

many (most? everyone?) will hear

"I don't want to talk about it TO YOU"

this is where we build walls, not bridges. Having a prepared statement in anticipation of the questions we expect will come gives us time to, as you suggested, protect ourselves, with boundaries in place that can stop further inquiries for the moment but leave the door open for future discussion if and when appropriate.

Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239220 - 07/20/08 09:19 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Little Miss,


I certainly understand how being with a survivor is tricky. It just is, no two ways about that. Often times it is an all or nothing proposition, "Do I tell them everything?" Or, "Do I tell them nothing?"

"How do I get my needs met?" That really is the issue, seems like. And, John's suggestion of a support group is great because it puts you in contact with other people in similiar situations.

You do not "owe" anyone anything. As adults we get to choose who we tell what. If a friend is a friend, "I do not want to talk about it now," is enough. It always was, always will be.


CD


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#239222 - 07/20/08 09:30 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: CDavid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Well...if choosing who to talk about my personal issues with being judgemental, then I certainly don't see being judgemental as a negative personality trait. And if someone interprets a simple statement like, "I'd rather not talk about it right now" as "I don't want to talk about it with you", then it's probably a good thing I chose not to talk about it with that person.

Quote:
If a friend is a friend, "I do not want to talk about it now," is enough. It always was, always will be.


Thanks for that, Dave. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#239241 - 07/20/08 11:03 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Well I don't know why you now have changed what you originally said BJK - before you were qualifying your statement with who deserved to be told; that's a lot different than what you are saying now.

A point I've yet to make but is very important here - I think you are trying very hard to give the survivor's point of view - which is appropriate of course - but Little Miss is NOT a survivor - she's a PARTNER - and what and how we talk about our relationships is a lot different than you do - and it's important you, as survivors, recognize that difference.

We are not obliged under any circumstances to react to people's inquiries, especially friends' inquiries, in the same manner that our partner would or would like us to.

It seems to be par for the course survivors don't want to talk about their situation which often times, is part and parcel the problem. It can very well be the reason the relationship is failing, in fact.

Moreover, it can also be helpful to other couples to hear about unresolved issues in the sense they may very well be facing similiar challenges in their own relationships.

To shut down discourse is, again, and I cannot emphasize this too much, building walls, not bridges.

If we only shared with those we want to share with - or those we thought "deserved" to hear - well - what's the point in that exactly? I think they call that "preaching to the converted" - right?

Personally I look at every situation in life as a learning experience, some are more difficult than others - and every opportunity to share my experiences with others as a teaching experience - it's a cultural concept one borne from my indigenous ancestry, yes, but one that I value and find appropriate for many cultures.

Unfortunately, there is a status quo of culture in the U.S. as well as elsewhere that particular information can only be shared with certain individuals - and not others - those who don't "deserve" it for whatever reason.

This cultural anomaly hurts society by hampering growth of individuals who can benefit by learning that their experiences are neither unique nor rare; in fact, that's the way this forum operates. It's the sharing of knowledge meant to benefit those who in the past have been shut out and as a consequence, have shut down, hampering their contributions to society as a whole.

Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239246 - 07/20/08 11:14 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I think the key word here is "trust". It's not about who "deserves" to be told. It's about who we "trust".

And my point of view hasn't changed a bit here. I've said all along that no one should feel obligated to say anything to anyone that one doesn't feel comfortable saying.

Again, it's all about trust. And with the OP in mind, I interpreted her statement that "some people don't get it" means that her trust is being abused. My experience as a survivor led me to trust everyone without regard to how they hurt me. I was burned again and again, over and over, before I finally came to the realization that I had a choice in whom I could trust. That is why I can relate so closely to what the OP is saying.

And so I chose to trust. And the people I do trust are the people I owe my life to.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (07/21/08 02:14 AM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#239252 - 07/20/08 11:35 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
May I just say, "Oh, dear." And, "Thank you."


CD


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#239270 - 07/21/08 02:59 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: CDavid]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
BJK,

you are the one who brought up the term "deserve" not me - I'm the one that objected to using that term as a kind of criteria for discussion of what happened in one's relationship.

as for trust -

sometimes we have to trust ourselves that we are doing the right thing regardless of how people react - just because they don't react the way we'd like does not mean we've done anything wrong - not at all.

everyone has been burned when trusting people - that's life - we get burned over and over again - but we get up and trust again because if we don't well, life will quickly become quite narrow and boxed into a place that's quite difficult to get out of.

moreover, we have to trust ourselves first and foremost before we can trust others.

as for what kind of information we choose to share - again - obligations are what they are, only each individual can decide what and how much information they share with their friends and coworkers - I never disagreed about that - I only offered a way to state it in a way that doesn't shut down discussion altogether but offers a path to future discussion - the bridge I keep talking about.

even adding the word "now" at the end of "I don't want to talk about it now" leaves a door open that in the future, you can share more just not at this particular time.

yes, some people don't get it - perhaps they never will - but then again - sometimes people just need to hear it more than once - the first time perhaps can be the hardest - I can think of so many examples right now that are fundamental - so many people thought war with Iraq was a good thing - now there are so many who question that - it's not really all that different.

discussion of life issues such as csa is a sea change for society in general and add to that male csa and add to that women as perps - this is an entire paradigm shift in people's thinking in general as to what and who is damaging to our children and the consequences this has for all of us, absolutely all of us in society.

shutting down the discussion when one is possibly the lone beacon of light in an otherwise black and dark void of emptiness can quite possibly perpetuate the darkness for an infinite amount of time until someone else dares to speak up again.

it's not easy, no one said it ever was or will be. it takes guts, courage, persistence and determination to continue to speak up, especially when people don't want to listen, don't want to hear.

but if those who don't know from first hand experience don't speak up - that leaves the door wide open for misinformation and ignorance to come forward instead - which is why so often we here news reports stating as fact what many on this forum now know as untrue - for instance, that survivors of csa are more prone to abuse children themselves.

one cannot address ignorance unless one dares to speak the truth, no matter how unpleasant it might be sometimes.

again, no one ever said it'd be easy.

Indy










_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239406 - 07/21/08 06:44 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Thank you indygal and BJK for the viewpoints. I understand what you both are saying and I feel that inner struggle inside myself. Thank you everyone else too.

Indy - I have tried the "He has unresolved issues from his past" or "he had a bad childhood" line on some of my closer friends/family, but that just seems to stir up way too much 'curiousity' (or should I say nosiness!). They start with the questions - well did this happen? Or this? Or that? Then I say "I can't talk about it", which like you said - they seem to take as rude/building a wall.

Yes - I guess I believe that family members and friends should get a better explanation than just a co-worker, and one should 'trust' family and friends enough to be able to offer that explanation. I really can't. My husband trusted me with the information regarding his csa. He is obviously a very private person, so, as far as I know, I am the only person who knows. I can't offer that as an explanation for his behavior, though if I could, others could see his behavior makes perfect sense. I can't use it to educate others, though I wish I could. (My mother actually said - "Did something happen to him as a child?? If so, he needs to just get over it." oh mother, if life were only that easy.)

So - I have to say SOMETHING. Then it doesn't make sense, then I have to explain, then that doesn't make sense, and I take up for my husband, which doesn't make sense. I just swirl into a big whirlwind and wish I NEVER said anything at all, but wish so much for someone to understand.

So that leaves me with saying that we are getting a divorce. I'm sad because I don't want the divorce. So people 'know' that it is his idea. I take up for him, then they think I'm pathetic - but I CANNOT let others think badly of him because he is such a good person, who is struggling SO hard right now to find himself.

I have always walked a fine line myself with my 'feelings' and who I trusted. I sometimes feel that if you know me for 10 minutes or 10 years - that you know the same person. I am a VERY open person about SOME things, and the things I am not open about - I am COMPLETELY closed off about. So, people in my life ASSUME that I am totally open (I'm not) and therefore assume that I will talk and talk and talk about this (I'm not). I have just started to be very vauge about answering people's questions. My family is the WORST - equating their experiences to my 'now experience.' Their divorce was like 'this', so now mine will be too.

No one can understand why my husband and I are still talking, why we want to remain friends, why we are still living in the same house while waiting for my new place to be ready. Several people have even come right and asked what our sleeping arrangements are!?! (Yes - we are still sleeping together - but I don't tell anyone that!)

I know it is completely surreal - but our relationship has ALWAYS been that way. We have always danced to the beat of our own drummer, though to the world we presented a shiny veneer.

I am having dinner with a former co-worker tomorrow who also knew my husband. She and her husband got divorced and remained friends. I was going to get some advice from her, which is ok with my husband. I told her a brief summary of what is going on (but obviously not about his csa). She said "Honestly, I'm worried about ****. Does he have somone to talk too? Will you let him know that I don't think badly of him and support you guys in whatever you decide." THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Finally, someone can see both sides and understands how much I care. It was like I could breathe again when she said that - like someone else acknowledged that I am not a crazy person for still loving him.

BJK - thank you for offering the male viewpoint. I feel like you really do understand what I was putting out there. You put your feelings out there, hoping for help/understanding, then most of the time you just wish you never said anything at all. Its hard. Trust is hard. I trusted my husband. He is my best friend. He is who I talked to about everything, but now I'm supposed to talk to everyone else instead. I miss him so much.

I'm sorry for the long post - I was away for the weekend.

I'm really thinkging about going to therapy - at least for myself. There I can be open about what I say, and not immediately regret I said it - right?



Edited by LittleMiss (07/21/08 06:54 PM)
_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239415 - 07/21/08 07:05 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJK
I empathize with her. I also have the utmost respect for her decision to stick by her partner if and when he has dealt enough with his issues to welcome her back into his life. This decision might change over time, and I respect that as well. I also understand that most people just don't get this and probably never will.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have no idea how much that means to me. Especailly coming from a survivor. Just that SOMEONE gets it. (And some many others on this site get it too.) THANK YOU a hundred times over.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239423 - 07/21/08 07:34 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
Little miss....I would copy paste everything you have written in this post and send it to your hubby. If he only knew what a good person you are....sheesh! xoxo good luck. I'm sorry you are dealing with so much

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#239431 - 07/21/08 08:01 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: dangal]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Thank you dangal. I think he knows. I think he does.





Edited by LittleMiss (07/21/08 08:03 PM)
_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239433 - 07/21/08 08:05 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: LittleMiss
Originally Posted By: BJK
I empathize with her. I also have the utmost respect for her decision to stick by her partner if and when he has dealt enough with his issues to welcome her back into his life. This decision might change over time, and I respect that as well. I also understand that most people just don't get this and probably never will.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have no idea how much that means to me. Especailly coming from a survivor. Just that SOMEONE gets it. (And some many others on this site get it too.) THANK YOU a hundred times over.


You're welcome. I sometimes think that the partners of survivors who have the strength to stick with the survivor through thick and thin are just as strong, if not stronger, than the survivors themselves. It takes a lot of work to make a relationship like this work. I wish you the best.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239459 - 07/21/08 11:43 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
LittleMiss, Getting yourself a T of your own is a great idea. You can bounce all your thoughts off of him/her. I see one on my own.It's great. They probably can help you better handle all of the people asking questions.

My H had disclosed many years ago,and when he did it was such a relief for me. He was treating me very poorly, and my family was pushing me to leave. I was pregnant at the time so I was waiting. Then he told me and it all made more sense. His family disowned him,but my family were very supportive. My mom tends to stick up for him alot.

you now share his secret with him, and without anyone else knowing that must be so hard. This is not a time for you to worry about anyone else,you have enough on your plate. How about saying something like they said on friends, "We're on a break." (LOL) You should come up with a standard answer that will work on everyone, that way you don't have to try to remember what you said to who.

Anyone who says you should not love your husband anymore, to me is just being insensitive. You loved this man for many years,and you did not want this, feelings cannot be turned off that quickly, not even for him. Will your H consider going to therapy with you? What would happen if you just didn't move out? Do you have to? I just hate to see you leave your relationship when it doesn't sound hopeless. You still sound like a couple.Have you told him he is not going to get rid of you that easy? From my experience with my spouse, they push you away, but the last thing they want is for you to leave. What they say, and what they really want are alot of times 2 different things. I'm sorry I am going on and on, I am on your side. NYDAISY



Edited by NY Daisy (07/21/08 11:45 PM)

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#239460 - 07/22/08 12:02 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: NY Daisy]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
NYDaisy, I would love for him to see a therapist - but he refuses. I don't know how to answer him when he insists they can't help him and can't tell him how to feel.

As for moving out - I have been stalling like nobody's business! But it isn't working and if I do move out, I almost feel like it will make him change his mind. Everyday he pushes pushes pushes. If I actually leave, I think he'll change his mind. It sounds like I'm playing a game, but that's not how I mean it. Just that if I give him what he 'says' he wants - then he'll realize what he 'really' wants.

And me leaving isn't me saying "ok, I'm gone". I've told him again and again -wherever I am is your home - you can always call me, come see me - and on and on. Even though, those OTHER PEOPLE say, if I move out, I can't see him anymore. As my mother put it so eloquently - "he can't have his cake and eat it too".

And in my heart - I just can't believe that this is over forever. Even if we get divorced - I think he'll come back to me. I asked him if we get divorced if he would ever live with someone else - he said maybe - so I said why not me? He said - who's to say that it won't be you?

If that time comes - try explaining THAT to 'other people'!

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239467 - 07/22/08 12:51 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
LittleMiss, I only say these things because my H says stuff like that all the time when he is going through a hard time. It gets so confusing. I just can't help feeling that he doesn't really want to lose you. It does not sound like a game, you are trying to make him see,you love him. It is hard for him to see, he doesn't love himself right now,so to him,how could you? for me I told my spouse that if he left he had better be sure, we have kids, so if he was going to leave it was going to be final. I can't be playing with their emotions. He knows I am very stubborn, and never go back on my word,so he knew I meant business. So my H is still here.

Your mom only wants what is best for you. She doesn't know what the real issue is so she only reacting to the fact that her LittleMiss is getting hurt.

Finally if you do leave,and you find your way back to each other, that is between your H and you. you don't have to explain anything to anyone. People who care about you will want to see you happy. I would tell people that we are having some difficulties communicating with each other right now,and we were starting to take each other for granted, but we are both committed to working it out,but felt it best to seperate for a while so we could each get a better understanding of how important we are to each other,and appreciate what we have. This takes any blame off of one person and leaves it open for a reconcilation. I'm with you,NYDAISY



Edited by NY Daisy (07/22/08 12:52 AM)

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#239479 - 07/22/08 02:10 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
Littlemiss,

I heard the other day, "Advise is worth what you paid for it". (often worthless).

There are your feelings. To thine own self, be true. My advise is take what works and leave the rest. Taking everyone's advice only leads to confusion. (i.e. one advises zigging, and the next advises zagging).

Personally, I wasted fifteen years married to the wrong woman, and have been divorced for a little over a year and a half.

Through a mutual friend, I just met and am starting to have a relationship with a nympho type kinky girl (just like me). So excited...!!!

I am sorry for you, sometimes the best you can do, is to concentrate on emotional sobriety, while riding the crazy train.

Through my bumpy travels through the long, hard, winding road of recovery. I have found everything happens for a reason and everything is going to be O.K.


If you can't change the wind, you must adjust your sail. (Saying from A.A. daily reflections book).

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#239695 - 07/23/08 07:45 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: 1islandboy]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
NYDaisy - I really like you. You seem like such a great person. Thank you for the support. I feel like I have come to these boards and just been like "help me, help me, help me". I hope I haven't been tooooo needy (which is craziness - because in real life I totally take care of everything!)

You have offered so much support and I so appreciate it.

You know - with him pushing me away - I feel almost like if I do go out and 'take care of myself' and all that, that he will come back to me because then the pressure is off of him - ya'know??? Like he can be in my life as long as he isn't "responsible" for my life.

island -
Originally Posted By: 1islandboy

If you can't change the wind, you must adjust your sail. (Saying from A.A. daily reflections book).
island


I've never heard that before - I LOVE it.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239724 - 07/23/08 10:10 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: LittleMiss

Indy - I have tried the "He has unresolved issues from his past" or "he had a bad childhood" line on some of my closer friends/family, but that just seems to stir up way too much 'curiousity' (or should I say nosiness!). They start with the questions - well did this happen? Or this? Or that? Then I say "I can't talk about it", which like you said - they seem to take as rude/building a wall.

Yes - I guess I believe that family members and friends should get a better explanation than just a co-worker, and one should 'trust' family and friends enough to be able to offer that explanation. I really can't. My husband trusted me with the information regarding his csa. He is obviously a very private person, so, as far as I know, I am the only person who knows. I can't offer that as an explanation for his behavior, though if I could, others could see his behavior makes perfect sense. I can't use it to educate others, though I wish I could. (My mother actually said - "Did something happen to him as a child?? If so, he needs to just get over it." oh mother, if life were only that easy.)

So - I have to say SOMETHING. Then it doesn't make sense, then I have to explain, then that doesn't make sense, and I take up for my husband, which doesn't make sense. I just swirl into a big whirlwind and wish I NEVER said anything at all, but wish so much for someone to understand.

So that leaves me with saying that we are getting a divorce. I'm sad because I don't want the divorce. So people 'know' that it is his idea. I take up for him, then they think I'm pathetic - but I CANNOT let others think badly of him because he is such a good person, who is struggling SO hard right now to find himself.

I have always walked a fine line myself with my 'feelings' and who I trusted. I sometimes feel that if you know me for 10 minutes or 10 years - that you know the same person. I am a VERY open person about SOME things, and the things I am not open about - I am COMPLETELY closed off about. So, people in my life ASSUME that I am totally open (I'm not) and therefore assume that I will talk and talk and talk about this (I'm not). I have just started to be very vauge about answering people's questions. My family is the WORST - equating their experiences to my 'now experience.' Their divorce was like 'this', so now mine will be too.

No one can understand why my husband and I are still talking, why we want to remain friends, why we are still living in the same house while waiting for my new place to be ready. Several people have even come right and asked what our sleeping arrangements are!?! (Yes - we are still sleeping together - but I don't tell anyone that!)

I know it is completely surreal - but our relationship has ALWAYS been that way. We have always danced to the beat of our own drummer, though to the world we presented a shiny veneer.

I am having dinner with a former co-worker tomorrow who also knew my husband. She and her husband got divorced and remained friends. I was going to get some advice from her, which is ok with my husband. I told her a brief summary of what is going on (but obviously not about his csa). She said "Honestly, I'm worried about ****. Does he have somone to talk too? Will you let him know that I don't think badly of him and support you guys in whatever you decide." THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Finally, someone can see both sides and understands how much I care. It was like I could breathe again when she said that - like someone else acknowledged that I am not a crazy person for still loving him.

...........

I'm really thinkging about going to therapy - at least for myself. There I can be open about what I say, and not immediately regret I said it - right?



LittleMiss,

I'll respond to the end of your post first - a lot of T's don't get it either!! which is sad, but true.

now, about the prior discussion - you've brought up some valid points and the difficulties one faces - a couple of years ago I brought up similar problems. the difference is, I'm single, we (my former bf and I) never even lived together so there was no formal committment or anything. You are married so it's different, please keep that in mind.

As a single person, I am beholden first and foremost to my own self and needs and have of course, my own friends and separate relationships I've built over time. While I was both conscious and respectful of my bf's privacy and situation, his situation (csa) was effecting me big time and I did feel not just obligated, but I wanted to share the reason for the otherwise inexplicable dysfunctionalities in our relationship, at least to those I was closest to and who questioned me the most intensely. These were people who were clearly concerned for my well being and happiness, mind you.

So yes, I DID explain about the csa, no details (I don't even have those!) but enough to let people know more about what was going on thatn just a passing "it's not working" phrase or two.

There's been little I regretted about sharing and as it turns out - 2 of those men - 1 a friend, one a relative - reacted in such a way it was clear they had their own unresolved issues as well - the family member in fact, had a nervous breakdown shortly afterwards and when I suggested perhaps he might be a survivor, he went into therapy and told his T what I said, as he took it very seriously.

I worry so about him and know he and his wife have had a great deal of difficulty since then. However, I'm not sorry for anything I said and I know he's not sorry either. We've both acknowledged his healing is what's important and he's in recovery now.

Sometimes we don't really know who we are talking to when we say the things we do - and as a result - people's reactions are often misinterpreted, misread, misunderstood.

Dodging questions which sometimes seem nosy and make us uncomfortable is hard, I agree and if you don't believe the person's heart is in the right place, by all means, end the discussion. But if you know this person and just think they are on the ignorant side rather than the heartless side, gently as possible share as much as you can.

Remember also, my dear LittleMiss, if you are actually embarking into the world as a single person now - it's YOUR life and YOUR decision as to what and how much to share.

He owns his past and his recovery - but you also own yours.

Never, ever forget that.

All the best,
Indy


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#239835 - 07/23/08 06:37 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
I hear what you are saying Indy, but I just cannot tell other people. He would be devastated. His trust in me would be shattered. He had a pretty major meltdown Monday night because he thinks people at his work 'might' know we are getting divorced. He is THAT private.

I will be honest and say that I have told my best friend. She is so kind and trustworthy and had her own bad childhood to be able to relate. And like you, I don't have any details to share - only that it happened. I told her years ago, before this current crisis, but during a lesser one. I think he may suspect I told her, but he has never asked. Sometimes I feel bad that I told even her - but I would go CRAZY if there was no one I could talk to.

It would almost be easier if I could tell people. Right now all my family and friends are saying "His behavior doesn't make sense! There is something he is not telling you!" I just want to scream "No! There is something I'M not telling YOU!!"

But I just don't feel that they are quiet/non-judgmental/tactful/open enough to be told that kind of information - especially without my husband's approval. I said before that I think my mother suspects - be even she was almost glib about it "just get over whatever happened to him". So, I just can't put him in a situation where someone may (well meaing or not) say something to him and cause him any more hurt.

If he could just tell someone himself - just let that huge 'secret' weight go for a minute, maybe it would help him. But to push it on him, would be terrible.

I do take care of myself. But I promised to take care of him too. Better or worse and all that.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#239873 - 07/23/08 08:16 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
LittleMiss,

I DO understand and respect your marriage vows - I've done them in the past and yes, did everything I could to keep them but alas, that marriage was doomed from the beginning - still I understand your wanting to keep his privacy.

Still, there is a point - when it's YOUR life, NOT his that you must think of; you already said it - it's your family, your friends, that are so concerned.

Sometimes when you don't say the "why" is when people do say someone just needs to "get over it" simply because you aren't putting the real deal out there for them to know otherwise. or it's cause they're idiots also!

you are going thru a transition phase now that hurts a lot - it's the reversion back to being a single person - slowly you'll realize that you do need to make decisions based on what's good for you and not necessarily for him - just as it's time for him to make his own decisions about his life and obviously, he's making them based on what's good for him, not necessarily for you - kind of hurts, huh?

believe me, you are not "pushing it on him" by sharing what's going on in your life with your marriage - as I said, you own your recovery also. the more you hold in, the longer it will take to stand up again, walk straight and go forward. The longer you hold it in, the longer it will hurt.

no one can tell you when it's time to let go of the hurt, only you can do that. I'm sorry, so very sorry you have to go thru this. When I first came on this site 2 years ago I never imagined now I'd be sharing this way - it's all so very surreal - sigh...

remember also - years ago it was the silence that protected the abuser and created the victim that was your husband. I'm a strong believer in breaking that silence - to me maintaining the silence as an adult without question is not much different than those who possibly could have done something when he was a child.

that is, if you knew a child was being abused, would'nt you speak up?? would you say I must protect the child's secret? of course not!! would you protect the abuser's secret?? of course not!!

it's not all that different tho of course adult survivors will rant and scream and throw all kinds of tantrums that it's their right to tell, etc etc even as they suffer in silence alone, scared and withdrawn.

breaking the silence is important for all of us; we can do it with tact, and as much educational information as possible, it doesn't have to be done in a thoughtless manner; done with love and care it can help a lot of people.

all the best,
Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239875 - 07/23/08 08:23 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
"...would you protect the abuser's secret?? of course not!!

it's not all that different tho of course adult survivors will rant and scream and throw all kinds of tantrums that it's their right to tell, etc etc even as they suffer in silence alone, scared and withdrawn."

There's an interesting tact.

Be afraid, be very afraid.


CD


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#239885 - 07/23/08 08:57 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: CDavid]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Little Miss,

I hope you decide to see a T yourself. I did for a while and would not hesitate to go back. The T I saw was also experienced in csa and while she was MY sounding board and my advocate, she knew exactly what my b/f was going through too. It was so nice to have someone in real life who knew I wasn't a crazy person for electing to stay with a man with so many troubles in life.

I understand why you don't want to speak with other people about the underlying issue. I won't either. It's not my story to tell. The most anyone has gotten out of me, if they're close, is that he had a horrible childhood that's had some long lasting effects. Several times, that statement has been met with follow questions, but I just leave it at "I don't feel comfortable going into detail because it's not my story to tell." That usually closes the conversation, at least in that direction.

I do occasionally talk to family and friends about "today" problems because that's my release and I feel I am entitled to it. My b/f understands that as well. But I, like you, will not betray the trust he placed in me. If he ever chooses to tell his story, I'll stand by him tall and proud, but I won't be the one to "out" him.

ROCK ON.......Trish



_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#239944 - 07/24/08 07:06 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
and let me all ask you a question you perhaps have never thought of -

all the while it's quite obvious you are so ready to condemn someone who's heart is in the right place, thinking there is more here than just your own situations - there is that of those who are being abused right now, as I type this, the untold number of victims, right now, and who will continue being abused, right now, until enough people come forward and say, as one, as a society, enough is enough.

so, which is better - you are able to have a thoughtful, intelligent discussion about however much you choose to share with someone you consider a friend or close family member -

or you let them go ahead and live in ignorance of your pain and your partner's pain and quite possibly, leave the world as it is without their possible input, or energy, or of course, as I stated previously, perhaps holding off on their own recovery because no one they've ever known has spoken about these things before so of course the difficulties they are having in their own lives could not possibly have anything to do with csa, now could it?

discussing what effects you is your right - it's not "outing" someone - discussing how someone has treated you in a way that others don't think is right and they want to know why you bother to continue loving that person - there is absolutely nothing wrong with explaining the situation with as much care and thoughtfulness that you can possibly muster.

I find it deeply offensive when some of you dare to jump on this as if someone is doing something wrong - there is nothing wrong with talking about csa - it is a terrible crime; it is a crime against humanity even - and until people can own up to it happening and put away the shame, it's going to continue for generations to come.

Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239947 - 07/24/08 07:17 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
It's not CSA in particular that I'm talking about here. It's pain. Pain is a deeply personal matter, and I find it to be absolutely imperative to ensure that more pain isn't compiled before I disclose that pain to someone else.

It's not an act of condemnation when I decide to not share my pain with another person. It is an act of self preservation along with an act of respecting another person's boundaries.

And, no...this has nothing to do with shame, and it has nothing to do with protecting children.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#239948 - 07/24/08 07:19 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
CDavid Offline


Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 184
Recovery is about reclaiming what was taken, Indy. It wasn't lost, we did not misplace it...it was taken.

No one, absolutely no one has the right to share another's story, regardless of how altruistic the motives are, without their permision.

CD


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#239952 - 07/24/08 07:24 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: CDavid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: CDavid
Recovery is about reclaiming what was taken, Indy. It wasn't lost, we did not misplace it...it was taken.

No one, absolutely no one has the right to share another's story, regardless of how altruistic the motives are, without their permision.

CD


My father shared my story before I was ready to go "completely public" with it. He shared it with his one close, personal friend who also happens to be friends with my mother, the perp. I was very hurt by this. However, I have come to realize that the topic of sexual abuse was so completely foreign to him, I seriously don't think he could have coped with it by keeping it inside.

At least he had the balls to come forward and admit that he had to disclose to someone. I'll forever respect him for that.

But at the same time, I seriously wish he had been more careful, for the situation ended up turning worse for a while as a result.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#239967 - 07/24/08 09:30 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: BJK
Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.


BJK, you know, I keep wondering why you have this under your comments.

is it just sometimes a person should not keep a secret?

tell me please, who is to say what qualifies as a secret and what doesn't?

and also - to others - who is supposed to say who can talk about csa and who can't?

you all seem to think you are the end all of the subject at hand - you aren't - not at all - there's more here than just you all to be considered - there are others; many others and there will continue to be others until society changes it's perception as to what is and is not acceptable to do to children.

you know, I'm reminded of a film - "In and Out" starring Kevin Kline. maybe you've seen it - it's a comedy of sorts. this guy is engaged to a woman, they live in a somewhat smallish town, one high school. He's a teacher there. People accuse him of being gay and he even wonders himself.

Finally, he realizes, he IS gay and comes out to the town and breaks off the marriage. The school wants him to quit and tells him he can't come to the graduation ceremony.

At the ceremony, he shows up and there's an exchange of words. Next thing, people start standing up and saying they are gay - pretty soon, everyone in the auditorium, even his parents, say they are gay too.

The point was to bring it out in the open, expose it for what it was - something personal, yes, but also something that was irrelevant to this man being a teacher, and a well-respected one at that.

At first when the school tried to fire the teacher for being gay, there was hurt and shame, and yes, lots and lots of pain. But after so many people stood beside him and said they were gay too, even when they weren't, the pain turned into joy as he realized people loved him and supported him, no matter who or what his sexual preference was.

Being identified as a csa survivor can only do the kind of damage people let it do as long as it remains a stigma; and it will remain a stigma as long as people shut it out of conversation, don't talk about it, hide it, and "protect" those who are known to be survivors for "fear" of - well - I'm not sure exactly.

one of the reasons this site is so successful is because people found it impossible to hold this in - they needed somewhere to go to talk about their issues and questions - and learned they weren't alone - this website is a kind of interim step until the public, in general, can learn to accept and understand more about what csa does to children and how it effects not just the child but the child that grows into an adult and in turn, relationships, and society in general.

I do understand many of you don't care about that right now and it's only your own peace of mind and safety that matter to you - and it should be - but some day - hopefully - you will understand how important it is to speak up about csa and to do so without fear.

all the best,
Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#239975 - 07/24/08 10:34 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Indy,

You are absolutely correct when you say that secrets should not be kept. What also must be considered is that secrets become easier to disclose the more we disclose them. However, we cannot just expect someone to break the secret to the whole world all at once. It's a process. In order to keep my sanity, I needed some kind of control over how quickly the news spread. I'm at the point in my recovery right now where I'd like the whole world to know. It's not a secret anymore, and a tremendous weight has been lifted from my chest. However, I've also come to the realization that some people simply don't want to know.

The friends I have who have been friends for a long time, even the ones I shared addictions with, all now know that I had a terrible childhood and am now choosing to face it. If they wish to pursue that further and ask questions, I will answer them openly and honestly. A year ago, when this first started coming out, I would not have been able to handle those questions. It took me a very difficult year to get to this point. With most survivors, it takes much, much longer.

I think that partners of survivors have to take that into consideration. Your loved one might not be able to handle an inappropriate question about his past, and if you disclose to someone, you run the risk of such a question coming up. Furthermore, if you choose to disclose your loved one's past to someone else, you'd better be prepared to let your loved one know about that disclosure, for keeping that disclosure to yourself is another example of keeping a secret.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#240018 - 07/24/08 05:40 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Trish - I say that too - "He had a bad childhood. He's not close to his family."


INDY - I understand what you are saying, and I want you to understand that in NO way am I mad/upset/annoyed/or anything by your views. Tone is hard to convey sometimes in writing, so I wanted to make that clear. (Capitalization is only meant for emphasis - not yelling) :-) I respect you opinions and I am glad that they worked in your situation.

That said, I still stand by my decision to NOT tell anyone the WHY of my relationship crisis. I still say that my husband trusted me with that information and unless HE says it is ok to share, then I CANNOT share. His trust would be shattered (again) and maybe he would be long going before he trusted again.

I understand what you are saying about changing viewpoints, changing the world, how this is not a stigma.

BUT - my husband works in a VERY male dominated working world. It is not the environment of "enlightened, understanding, open" people. Individually, yes, of course some of them are - but as a group, H**L NO.

At this moment, I am not out to change the world. Only help my husband. And I certainly don't think making him the figure head of some crusade is the way to do it. I WISH the world was a place were he could be open - but he feels that life has proved to him that it is not. If I betray his trust, I only further prove that.

You said that we wouldn't keep the secret if we knew a child at this moment was being victemized. No, we would not - we would stop the abuse ---- BUT we would not walk into the child's classroom and share with his 'friends' the details of what has happened to him either, would we? Sometimes sharing does just as much damage. - that is what I am trying to prevent.

(Also - as bad as this all is, I am not ready to think of myself as single yet. In my mind, we are still a team.)

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#240055 - 07/24/08 09:00 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Quote:
BUT we would not walk into the child's classroom and share with his 'friends' the details of what has happened to him either, would we? Sometimes sharing does just as much damage. - that is what I am trying to prevent.

Little Miss, you said that much better than I ever could. Thank you.

The secret of child abuse is horrid beyond words, but until the victim of such an atrocity is ready to speak out, then we can only speak out in generalities. We can speak passionately, sadly, each and every day about what shows up in the news but to say that my b/f, my husband, my brother, my father was abused to those who know him would invite too many questions that the survivor may not be ready to deal with; it would on only drive him into a deeper hole.

Bryan, you're right of course, it's a process. For you, a relatively short one and I'm glad for you. For my b/f it's one hell of alot longer. Long story short, we know a child in trouble, not csa, but big trouble nontheless and he's told me that it would be OK for me to relay to her some of his story in the hopes that she might know she's not alone. It's a start.

ROCK ON..............Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#240071 - 07/24/08 10:43 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
It's an outstanding start, Trish. For me, it was a start in a very similar way. My nephew doesn't understand why he isn't allowed to see his grandmother (my mother) anymore, so I told my sister that it was okay to share with him age appropriate parts of my experience as he grows older so that he understands. He's nine now, and I have the feeling that he's getting close to the age where some very difficult questions are going to start to arise. To be frank, I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#240147 - 07/25/08 11:45 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: Trish4850
Quote:
BUT we would not walk into the child's classroom and share with his 'friends' the details of what has happened to him either, would we? Sometimes sharing does just as much damage. - that is what I am trying to prevent.

Little Miss, you said that much better than I ever could. Thank you.

The secret of child abuse is horrid beyond words, but until the victim of such an atrocity is ready to speak out, then we can only speak out in generalities. We can speak passionately, sadly, each and every day about what shows up in the news but to say that my b/f, my husband, my brother, my father was abused to those who know him would invite too many questions that the survivor may not be ready to deal with; it would on only drive him into a deeper hole.

Bryan, you're right of course, it's a process. For you, a relatively short one and I'm glad for you. For my b/f it's one hell of alot longer. Long story short, we know a child in trouble, not csa, but big trouble nontheless and he's told me that it would be OK for me to relay to her some of his story in the hopes that she might know she's not alone. It's a start.



how absolutely absurd!!

how did you all make this fantastic leap from answering personal questions on an individual basis to those close to us all the way to initiating a discussion about someone to total strangers??!!

you are definitely looking for hurricanes and typhoons when the weather is saying we might have a chance of a sprinkle or two -

carrying negativity everywhere you go certainly must take a lot of strength - tell me please what's your secret? I'd really like to know...

all the best,
Indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#240148 - 07/25/08 11:53 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: LittleMiss


I understand what you are saying about changing viewpoints, changing the world, how this is not a stigma.

BUT - my husband works in a VERY male dominated working world. It is not the environment of "enlightened, understanding, open" people. Individually, yes, of course some of them are - but as a group, H**L NO.


Little Miss,

I got a newsflash for ya' - we ALL live in a very male dominated world!! ;\)

furthermore - it's not even close to being - and perhaps never will be? - an environment of enlightened understanding and open people -

however, all that being said, society does grow and change, albeit slowly.

you will not become single overnight - any more than you became married overnight - it will be a gradual transition. Eventually, you will have to make decisions based on what's good for you.

The reality of csa and its aftermath is how it effects more than just the victim present at the time - a crucial reality that it effects all of us, some more than others. Those of us who are closer to the victim who becomes a survivor are effected a great deal.

Sometimes we have to take the intiative for our own healing and deal with it in our own way - I think this is what's being overlooked here. No one is talking about doing additional harm; rather one is discussing how to further the healing of those who've also been hurt. Sometimes one has to lance a wound in order to let out the poison.

It's just the way it is. It's not always painless, unfortunately.

Indy






_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#240149 - 07/25/08 12:06 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: BJK
Indy,

In order to keep my sanity, I needed some kind of control over how quickly the news spread.
Bryan


you see, this is the problem. you simply cannot control how what happened to you effects your partner - and her choices as to what she will do about it and how she will go about dealing with the aftermath.

I think there is a huge underestimation as to just how significant the trauma is to a partner when they learn about their partner's trauma as a child. It's huge and their life also changes afterward, much as the survivor's did (*edit* the partner's life will change permanently I don't mean they will face the same sort of obstacles the survivor did).

At that point, the partner is now responsible for their own future and hopefully, will keep in mind the survivor's recovery as well but, and this is the BUT, each individual must carry forward what's best for them.

Again, keeping the secret does no one any good. Doing it "for him" is not a good enough reason IF - and this is important - IF it is causing the partner unnecessary pain.

I'm not talking about shouting from the rooftops here, so please don't go off and make like I am. I've stated this previously; a one on one discussion with those who care, even when sometimes they are not the best and the brightest, well, it's got to start somewhere.

alcoholism, drug addiction, as I mentioned before, such events possibly some of you are too young to even know about - cancer, divorce, domestic violence, pms, menustration in general, impotence - all have been taboo topics in the past - met with a great deal of resistance and were eventually accepted more or less as time went by.

The Rolling Stones - remember them? their song "Satisfaction" (I can't get no satisfaction) was banned in the 60's by a number of radio stations for being too sexually explicit - oh jees - look where we are now with the lyrics in rap songs and other similar genres -

We are at a crossroads in time now when things are changing rapidly regarding csa in all children, especially boys. This is a GOOD thing, it is, it really really is.

all the best,
Indy



_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#240154 - 07/25/08 12:40 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Indy,

Survivors will speak; they do speak when they are able. Those who are unable to any any given moment aren't keeping the secret of what happened to them because they want bad things to continue happening to children. They are silent because of trauma. When a survivor is first able to articulate that trauma to someone who is close, usually a partner, it is their first tentative step into the world of trusting another human being. That trust should be honored and hopefully the partner and the survivor can work together to first heal themselves and then maybe try to heal the world, but it doesn't happen in one fell swoop.

ROCK ON........Trish


_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#240158 - 07/25/08 01:12 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
well said, Trish


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#240160 - 07/25/08 01:23 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: NY Daisy]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
A person has to work on himself/herself before he can concentrate on saving the world. What good is trying to remove a taboo from society if one ends up committing suicide in the process?

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#240217 - 07/25/08 07:20 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
My husband told me last night that he felt I was "pushing him to deal". I ALWAYS pushed him. This is because I sent him the link to this website. That's all. That's it. That ONE thing is how I have ALWAYS pushed him.

He can't even talk about this with ME. But since we were "talking" about it, I did tell him how I had read one of the survivors say that talking to other survivors helped him, because he did not see them as ugly/dirty/bad/full of blame for what happened to them, therefore, he could start to see that he wasn't ugly/dirty/bad/full of blame also.

My husband said, "That's what my brother told me."

WHAT?!?!?!? (I had NO IDEA he had ever had a conversation with his brother.)

I asked him when he talked to his brother about this and he said it was right after (the perp) died. His brother had 'vague memories' of it too. I asked him if maybe he could talk to his brother now. NO. Maybe just talk about us getting a divorce. NO.

So see - if he can't even talk to his own brother, someone who knows what happened, someone who had it happen to them too - He is not ready to talk to others.

I can't scroll back far enough to see who said it, but someone said something about if we tell others that may subject our partners to questions they are not ready to answer. I agree with that. I do love my family, and I know they mean well, but we are different people - and I just don't trust them enough to tell them. I don't believe that they would EVER say anything mean or bad, of course. But they may not treat it with the respect (not quite the right word) it deserves. And even the most well intentioned comment/question/concern may push my husband right over the edge. He's barely hanging on now.

Did I mention earlier (on this post or somewhere else?) that he had a sort of breakdown Monday night (like almost crying-which is HUGE), because he thought people he worked with MIGHT know we are getting a divorce. He hadn't told anyone except his boss - but he FELT like people were treating him differently. He FELT like they thought he was "bad/dirty" (his words). He FELT like his image was ruined. No one said or did anything to him - he just FELT this.

If he can't handle people knowing he is getting a divorce (something he CHOSE to do), how in the world is he ready for people to know about his CSA??

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

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#240219 - 07/25/08 07:24 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJK
A person has to work on himself/herself before he can concentrate on saving the world. What good is trying to remove a taboo from society if one ends up committing suicide in the process?


I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT. One of my husbands favorite sayings in "don't poke the bear". In this case - don't test an already unstable environment.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

Top
#240222 - 07/25/08 08:02 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
LittleMiss,

The feelings your husband is going through at work is totally normal for someone who is dealing with depression. He is hyper-sensitive to the way others think about him. He feels as if they are treating him differently because of something he said or did. He probably feels like an outsider in a world that is conspiring against him, and the most sad part about all of this is that it is very possible that he may feel that way about you, too. Unforunately, nothing you can say or do can remove him from this reverie. He has to work that out on his own.

The fact that you are NOT confirming his fears speaks volumes about you. He's not ready to deal with this head on. He might never be, unfortunately. With me, something specific had to happen in order to jolt me into dealing with it.

Please know that a lot of what you say about your husband rings true to me. A lot of us survivors have a lot in common.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#240420 - 07/26/08 05:39 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
BJK - thank you for the response. I alway enjoy your posts - well thought out, worth reading, etc etc.

I do feel my husband is depressed. Depressed in a big way. And about being hypersensitive - you have no idea!!! He told me the other day that our dog doesn't like him. Our DOG??!? Come on.

I think, no - I hope that this space apart will give him time to work though this and towards something else. He keeps telling me that he thinks/hopes it will. He says he just can't concentrate on himself because of feelings like he has to be 'on' for me. Which I told him he doesn't, he doesn't have to hang out with me inside if he wants to be in the garage, he doesn't have to watch my movies if he'd rather watch racing. I don't care - I am not a pushy clingy person. He has always been the clingy one. He says he KNOWS but he still FEELS he has to, and until he can break that "HAS TO" feeling and do what he "WANTS TO", we are getting no where.

He finally told some of his co-workers today about our upcoming "divorce". He seemed to be feeling better - just getting that much out maybe helped (I know Indy thinks getting it ALL out would help tremendously, and I agree, I am just waiting for him to be the one to do it). But, he also said he felt like he was still on 'pretend to be happy' mode.

I just don't know what the catalyst will be that pushes him to seek help.


I got off the track of this thread, huh? Other People? Well, hows this for "other people" - most family/friends are now convinced that he is seeing someone else - because of his "strange" behavior. Maybe he is, still I don't think so. So, I have to say "I don't know. I don't think so, but I guess maybe. We'll see I guess." I don't feed into them one bit. So, we'll see I guess.

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

Top
#240424 - 07/26/08 05:47 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Little Miss,

Thank you for the compliment.

A year ago, I didn't know what "love" was. In fact, to be completely blunt, if I had read your posts a year ago, I would have thought you were full of shit.

Now, I read your posts, and it is obvious to me that you love your husband a great deal.

I suspect that your husband is finding out what love is for the first time, and it is scaring him.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (07/26/08 05:47 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#240588 - 07/27/08 06:17 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BJK
A year ago, I didn't know what "love" was. In fact, to be completely blunt, if I had read your posts a year ago, I would have thought you were full of shit.

Now, I read your posts, and it is obvious to me that you love your husband a great deal.


Full of shit, huh? LOL \:D

I think there is a difference between being full of shit and putting up with shit!!! ;\)

I don't even mean my husband's shit - just shit from everywhere/everyone about this whole situation. Sometimes its like shit keeps getting shoved at you and you just smile and say "thanks, more please." AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

(that was a lot of 'shits' from me. sorry!)

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

Top
#240614 - 07/27/08 09:09 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
lol...no worries. I was trying to be as polite as possible in expressing the point above. I'm glad you took it the right way.

\:\)

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#240645 - 07/28/08 12:58 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
LittleMiss, I am not positive, but I think you missed a shit, can you add just one more? LOL


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#240664 - 07/28/08 07:44 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: NY Daisy]
LittleMiss Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
Oh Shit!

_________________________
LittleMiss

The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep.

Top
#240746 - 07/28/08 05:20 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: LittleMiss]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
That's better, THANK YOU!!!


Top
#240913 - 07/29/08 05:52 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: Trish4850
Indy,

Survivors will speak; they do speak when they are able. Those who are unable to any any given moment aren't keeping the secret of what happened to them because they want bad things to continue happening to children. They are silent because of trauma. When a survivor is first able to articulate that trauma to someone who is close, usually a partner, it is their first tentative step into the world of trusting another human being. That trust should be honored and hopefully the partner and the survivor can work together to first heal themselves and then maybe try to heal the world, but it doesn't happen in one fell swoop.

ROCK ON........Trish


gosh Trish - thanks for that incredible insight - am not sure I ever knew it was, gasp, TRAUMA we were talking about -

you know, I'm now totally convinced there are more than a few of you who "don't really get it" or are even (accurately) reading what I've been taking so much time, patience and perseverance to write in as an intelligent and thoughtful manner as I can.

I saw an old tv show streaming on the web tonight and in it this guy tells this other guy a story who's just been diagnosed with PTSD. Here's the story:

this fellow is walking down the street and falls in a hole. He can't get out. He calls up but no one hears him.

Then a dr walks by and he calls up - Dr help me please!

the dr writes a pre>
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my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#240925 - 07/29/08 08:05 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: indygal]
Trish4850 Offline
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Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
The thing is Indy that the decisions made by husbands/wives or boyfriends/girlfriends have to reflect what is good, not only for the individual, but for the couple, if that couple is to stay together. If a decision made by one would hurt the other, then it's likely that the decision is the wrong one.

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If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#241238 - 07/29/08 11:14 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Trish,
There's a distinction that has to be made when referring to "hurt". (The nurse in me, "Pain Scale", etc.etc.etc.)
If you, say, go into the hospital to have a baby and you end up with a c/section. It's going to hurt. They will give you medication, but, even so, the experience will not be "pain-free."
Therapy, same thing. There are things that will come up that are going to be uncomfortable, and even hurt. Healing, MOST of the time, involves a certain amount of pain. Avoiding it, in my experience, is the wrong decision for the individual AND the couple.
Just my opinion.
Liv


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#241242 - 07/29/08 11:38 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Liv2124]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
What you say is true, Live. However, if a woman goes into the hospital to have a c-section, no one is going to punch her in the belly before she goes in to have the procedure (hopefully). There is going to be pain, but punching her in the stomach is the wrong kind of pain and can hopefully be avoided.

Dealing with abuse is similar in this regard as well. Yes, there will be pain. Yes, there is supposed to be pain. However, taking a survivor's disclosure from him before he or she is ready is the wrong kind of pain, and it can have the most aweful consequences imaginable.

There are a couple of people I work with, one being my sister's best friends, with whom I would have been absolutely mortified had they found out what I was going through early on in my recovery. The result for me would have likely been suicide. Hell, had I found out about my father's disclosure of my disclosure a couple of months before I had, it would have ended badly.

I will concede that a partner of a survivor needs someone to talk to who can lend some sanity to the situation. However, I must stress that this is something that should be talked about in depth, partner-to-partner. Survivors are hyper-sensitive to trust, and this type of disclosure without proper communication has the potential to completely destroy a relationship (or worse).

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#241300 - 07/30/08 07:37 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
Trish4850 Offline
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Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Liv, I 100% agree that there are distinctions between hurt. It was a generic word I used for lack of a better one. I was only talking about telling someone else, someone who is not as "in the know" about csa, about our survivor's past when he is simply not ready to deal with it.

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#241436 - 07/30/08 09:48 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Trish4850]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Trish,
I can understand that. It's a very foriegn concept to me, because having been with him for so many years prior to the disclosure, ALL our friends were mutual. I told no one.
I have a small family and one that I've never been emotionally close to. So family was out too.
Before this site, there were a few therapists, but no one else.
Because of our situation, and what effects plagued him, I was always the one left to "make excuses" and "doing the explaining" when he weirded out, or booked without saying anything. He and I argued over this many times, because I felt it put me in an uncomfortable situation with friends. He didn't care.
Maybe I'm wrong, but there have been many a time I've faked a headache and said my goodbye's when I couldn't deal for whatever reason. I expected the same from him. Pressure, I know, but as an adult, make your own excuses.
My second son is named after him, his mother asked him if he was the father. His mother also demanded to know if I did "something" to make him "gay". His brother wanted to know how much sex we were having because he didn't want him to "miss out" (whatever THAT means!)
Yeah, I'm great at being "vague", otherwise, I don't think we would have lasted as long as we did. Having his name tattooed across my back hasn't hurt his facade any either. He's got a few different personas going, I know "ground zero".
This was, our demise. It came to a point where the ONLY time he ever came around was with an issue, a negative, something he expected me to have an answer for. And all I ever did, was "refer". I referred him to qualified people who weren't close to him, and could help him. NOT what he wanted.
The choices I've made over the years were my own, but not the best. Because of his situation, I alienated myself from alot of people. It made him more comfortable. It made me more lonely. He hasn't been "there" for me, in a really long time.
I think I've earned the right to expect more than an occasional text message every few months. If that makes me seem selfish to some, then, okay. I'm entitled to want things too.
Always,
Liv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eartomK47xw



Edited by Liv2124 (07/30/08 10:06 PM)

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#241439 - 07/30/08 10:02 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Liv2124]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
With all due respect, Liv, your relationship sounds like a classic case of co-dependency. It also sounds like his family is quite unhealthy. Those questions that were asked by his mother and his brother were entirely inappropriate. At some point, you have to draw a boundary and say, "look...this topic is not up for discussion."

Another thing I'd like to mention, and I certainly mean no disrespect by saying this, but it sounds like your husband hasn't really plunged into the whole recovery business with both feet. It sounds like he's still a victim, and it also sounds like he's not getting the help he needs. It hurts, I know, but at some point, I believe a partner has to draw an ultimatum and say, "I can't cover up for you anymore, so I'm leaving until you get help."

Just my two cents.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#241443 - 07/30/08 10:20 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Bryan,
Thanks, but he's not my husband. We grew up together, parted ways, I married someone else and terminated the marraige after 7 years. My SO and I "re-connected" at our high school reunion. The disclosure started that night actually, and continued over the following month.
His mother, I'd rather not talk about, his brother, I believe was abused as well by the 1st of my SO's abusers. That whole family is a mess. Mine is too, for different reasons, but those I have always kept "public". I think my SO and I argued as much as we did because I hid nothing about myself from anyone. He HATED that. I've lived my own life from a position that NO ONE could EVER hold ANYTHING over my head about myself. His stuff, yes, I kept the secret. It wasn't mine to tell, it was told to me in confidence and had nothing to do with who I am. But I did resent him for it. I resented being the only one who knew. Wrong? Maybe. But I knew from the start that I couldn't help him. Don't worry, I've given nothing up to his mother or brother.
My SO IS still a victim, he knows who and where the help is, but he won't say when.

Thanks for your "two cents", I know I probably sound like a bitch these days but everyone has their limit. I have a really long fuse, too.
Always,
Liv


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#241460 - 07/30/08 11:03 PM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Liv2124]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
dear Liv, you have more than earned your right to a life, and to have alot of happiness in it. I am behind you 100%. Also by being the only person all these years to know,and his unwillingness to get any help, really put you in a precarious position. By him dumping all this on you, it made you a victim.You have spent 29 yrs carrying and shouldering all of his pain and confusion.

NOW YOU BOTH WERE CARRYING AROUND THIS PAIN. This must have been awful for you. You spent years covering and making excuses for him. You were living pretty much the same life as him, except you weren't the one abused, he was.

like you I am a very open person. To not have someone to confide in all these years must have been so hard for you. Plus when you start making up excuses and lying, you have to devote alot of time remembering who you told what to. I definitely would have wound up with an ulcer.

Liv, I want only good things for you, you deserve it.i know that love is a very complicated thing, and feelings cannot just be shut off, but I hope with time, you wil open yourself up to the possibility that someone is out there waiting to love you, COMPLETELY,the way you deserve to be.

Warmly, NYDAISY




Edited by NY Daisy (07/30/08 11:05 PM)

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#241479 - 07/31/08 12:47 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: Liv2124]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Liv,

I certainly don't think you sound like a bitch. In fact, I think your husband asks too much of you. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you because you have respected his confidence.

NYDaisy is absolutely right, as well. I made a post elsewhere stating that the day that a person takes action to avoid perpetuating his or her abuse onto others, even if that perpetuation is unintentional, is the day that a person progresses from victim to survivor. Your SO is trying to make you a victim, even though it is probably unintentional. I understand why you are bitter, but it also sounds like you are making a conscious attempt to keep from perpetuating that bitterness.

But if you are still in this relationship, it sounds dangerously codependent. I urge you to seek a therapist of your own if you haven't already. Perhaps there are some things you can learn to help ease this burden.

I wish you the best of luck.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#241705 - 08/01/08 09:42 AM Re: Other People don't "GET IT" [Re: BJK]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Liv,

I don't think you sound like a bitch either. You've gone over and above what many would do and you've reached your limit. So now you're doing what you need. That's not bitchy, it's real life.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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